2019 NFL: Trade Deadline Thread

Super Nomario

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 5, 2000
14,012
Mansfield MA
Yes, I think so. Wynn played guard in college and Thuney can play anywhere.
I agree Thuney is physically and mentally capable of playing center, but he hasn't played there since his freshman year of college (when he was a backup). I don't think shifting him there midseason is realistic. If they make a change at center, it would probably be Ferentz. But I suspect we're just going to ride or die with Karras.

Speaking of Ferentz, it's pretty disappointing that he played over Eluemunor when they traded a 4th for Eluemunor earlier in the year (they did get a sixth back).
 

Time to Mo Vaughn

RIP Dernell
SoSH Member
Mar 24, 2008
7,202
You think a 3rd? I saw this and instantly thought "I wish we had used a 3rd on Sanu and still had our Second to dangle for Howard." Cest la vie.
If a 3rd can get it done all the better.

Hell I MIGHT consider a 1st+5th (or something) for Howard and the Bucs 2nd.
Why do you think he's worth a 2nd? He was taken in the first round (19th overall) and hasn't be too impressive since. 26 receptions for 432 yards (20th in league at TE) in 14 games (30.9 ypg) in 2017 and 34 receptions for 565 yards (14th in league at TE) in 10 games(56.5 ypg) in 2018. This year he's got 13 receptions and 176 yards(25th in league at TE) in 6 games (29.3 ypg). So overall, we've got average to below average production compared to starters. This is his worst year yet, he's been plagued with injuries and does not have the 4 years of control that came with him as a 1st round pick.
 

bakahump

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 8, 2001
7,518
Maine
On the face of it I think your right. But OJH has always had promise. The 1st Round Pedigree etc etc. This still in the collective mind... Plus I think the Bucs have done a really good job of Dangling not Dangling him. All of which MIGHT drive up interest. And as they say you only need 1 team to offer a 3rd (which means we would have to offer a 2nd.....ahhhh rich people problems).
 

( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)

T&A
SoSH Member
Feb 9, 2010
5,302
Providence, RI
Looks like Howard's base salary is essentially $1.5M, so I think the Patriots would only be on the hook for $780K for the remainder of the season and the Patriots currently have $2.8M of space even before Gordon gets waived in 2-3 weeks, so it should be no problem at all fitting him in under the cap. He's also on a very affordable $1.97M base salary next year.

So now the question is what would he cost. He was a 1st round pick just two years ago, and has put up pedestrian numbers missing a lot of time with injuries (14 games in 2017, 10 games in 2018). I think a 3rd would definitely get the deal done. It seems a little rich, but they currently have 3 (their own and compensation for Flowers and Trent Brown). They also have the Bears 4th round pick and not their own. Maybe the Bears 4th round and Broncos 6th round pick would get it done?
There is a lot of desire to go get OJ Howard but do we know if he is actually good?

Don't get me wrong he checks a lot of boxes....
Played in a major college conference for a high caliber program and was productive. (though he seemed somewhat under utilized for all the hype around him)
He crushed the combine; 4.5s 40 and 6.85s 3-cone at 251 lbs.
Those things are awesome and pre-draft would get me very excited about the player. But this isn't pre-draft anymore.

His NFL career to-date has been up and down. He has most certainly had some great spurts, like the 4-5 game stretch in 2018 where he put up great numbers and he has seemingly had good TD/red zone production. But outside of that stretch he has been more pedestrian and hurt a lot. He missed games due to injury his sophomore and junior year at Alabama as well.

I think it's clear cut that he would instantly be the best TE the Pats have on their roster. But I think it's also fair to say that the book is still open on him. He most certainly would not be the first productive college player/combine crusher who turns out to be just a guy in the NFL. Yes, I'd like the Pats to trade for Howard at a reasonable price but I think some pumping of the brakes are also needed here. A trade for Howard is to me about acquiring a potentially good player and not acquiring a savior at the TE position.
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
53,837
There is a lot of desire to go get OJ Howard but do we know if he is actually good?
I would imagine Belichick, if he had actual interest in Howard, would call Saban and get some info. I think if the Pats do acquire him, then Saban likely gave a positive report.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill
SoSH Member
Sep 9, 2008
42,271
AZ
Drake only merited a conditional 6th?
Weird -- isn't it? I guess it's just not a position of need for many teams. Cardinals were desperate at the position and still only needed to give a sixth.

Drake has always seemed to me like a better player than the Dolphins ever thought he was, and like the rest of the league seems to value him.
 

RedOctober3829

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
55,298
deep inside Guido territory
I don't get that trade for the Giants. They are going nowhere this year. They should be stockpiling picks not giving them away for rentals. If he leaves in FA, they can get that 3rd rd pick back in compensation but still gave away a 5th round pick for nothing.
 

kelpapa

Costanza's Hero
SoSH Member
Feb 15, 2010
4,637
If the Giants re-sign Williams at the end of this year, that does not factor into their comp pick value, correct? Like it would if he was a free agent? And they will get a comp pick for him if he leaves? Still, it's a head scratcher.
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
37,054
Hingham, MA
I don't get that trade for the Giants. They are going nowhere this year. They should be stockpiling picks not giving them away for rentals. If he leaves in FA, they can get that 3rd rd pick back in compensation but still gave away a 5th round pick for nothing.
Maybe trying to get him in the house and get a leg up on signing him? Is this any different than the Collins trade to the Browns in 2016?
 

Super Nomario

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 5, 2000
14,012
Mansfield MA
There is a lot of desire to go get OJ Howard but do we know if he is actually good?

Don't get me wrong he checks a lot of boxes....
Played in a major college conference for a high caliber program and was productive. (though he seemed somewhat under utilized for all the hype around him)
He crushed the combine; 4.5s 40 and 6.85s 3-cone at 251 lbs.
Those things are awesome and pre-draft would get me very excited about the player. But this isn't pre-draft anymore.

His NFL career to-date has been up and down. He has most certainly had some great spurts, like the 4-5 game stretch in 2018 where he put up great numbers and he has seemingly had good TD/red zone production. But outside of that stretch he has been more pedestrian and hurt a lot. He missed games due to injury his sophomore and junior year at Alabama as well.

I think it's clear cut that he would instantly be the best TE the Pats have on their roster. But I think it's also fair to say that the book is still open on him. He most certainly would not be the first productive college player/combine crusher who turns out to be just a guy in the NFL. Yes, I'd like the Pats to trade for Howard at a reasonable price but I think some pumping of the brakes are also needed here. A trade for Howard is to me about acquiring a potentially good player and not acquiring a savior at the TE position.
I think this is fair to a degree; Howard has not been as productive as he "should" be, either in college or in the pros. But that's also why he might be available; normally the Patriots don't get an opportunity to acquire a player like this. And prior to this year, he looked like he was turning a corner as a receiving threat; 565 yards and 5 TDs in 10 2018 games translated to a 904-yard, 8 TDs in 16. The Patriots are also super-picky about TE and find few guys who check all their boxes as far as blocking, size, and ability; they haven't drafted a TE earlier than the 5th round since Gronk / Hernandez in 2010.

But it's fair to say he's not Gronk. If anything he seems like Ben Watson 2.0 - he checks all the boxes on paper, but is somehow less than the sum of his parts and winds up a good-but-not-great player. I'd still take it.
 

luckiestman

Son of the Harpy
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
32,617
If the Giants re-sign Williams at the end of this year, that does not factor into their comp pick value, correct? Like it would if he was a free agent? And they will get a comp pick for him if he leaves? Still, it's a head scratcher.

I dont get it at all for them. Leo was going to walk so Jets would get a comp pick. The 3rd from the Giants is better than that plus a 4th if he resigns. Giants get 8 games, where are they going?


Works for me.
 

BigSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
May 31, 2007
47,083
If we're throwing crap against a wall what about seeing if the Eagles want JC Jackson for Dallas Goedert? Eagles need a corner and Pats need a TE. Similar contracts.
I like Goedert but not worth disrupting the secondary’s chemistry, IMO. Goedert has also seemed to move ahead of Ertz in Wentz’s pecking order last couple of games.
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
53,837
If we're throwing crap against a wall what about seeing if the Eagles want JC Jackson for Dallas Goedert? Eagles need a corner and Pats need a TE. Similar contracts.
Jackson has played more than 50% of the defensive snaps this season for a defense that owes a lot of it's success to the DBs. If the Pats believe the "next man up" can do the job equally, then sure. But I don't think they do.
 

( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)

T&A
SoSH Member
Feb 9, 2010
5,302
Providence, RI
Weird -- isn't it? I guess it's just not a position of need for many teams. Cardinals were desperate at the position and still only needed to give a sixth.

Drake has always seemed to me like a better player than the Dolphins ever thought he was, and like the rest of the league seems to value him.
This is kind of a hilarious statement mixed in between the "is OJ Howard actually good?" conversation.
Drake was a good but not great college player at Alabama who had a good combine but has then produced three OK years in the NFL. I don't think he is a bad player but I also don't think he is anything more than just 'good/average NFL running back'. At this point in his NFL career why would anyone be judging him on anything besides what he has and has not done on a NFL field?
Yes, the Dolphins have not been a great situation but at this point I'm very confident that he is not going to turn into a young Adrian Peterson or Barry Sanders with a different team. He is a quality, but not great NFL player and I see no reason to suspect otherwise.

It's the same conversation as Howard. OJ would be an upgrade for sure but it's far from conclusive that he fills the Pats need at TE for the long term.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
24,369
If we're throwing crap against a wall what about seeing if the Eagles want JC Jackson for Dallas Goedert? Eagles need a corner and Pats need a TE. Similar contracts.
This defense is based primarily on phenomenal secondary play. I wouldn't touch that at ALL. If they can give up fewer than 14 points a game, especially in the playoffs, while creating a couple of turnovers each game, I'd bet the mortgage that the Pats end up SB champs.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill
SoSH Member
Sep 9, 2008
42,271
AZ
This is kind of a hilarious statement mixed in between the "is OJ Howard actually good?" conversation.
Drake was a good but not great college player at Alabama who had a good combine but has then produced three OK years in the NFL. I don't think he is a bad player but I also don't think he is anything more than just 'good/average NFL running back'. At this point in his NFL career why would anyone be judging him on anything besides what he has and has not done on a NFL field?
Yes, the Dolphins have not been a great situation but at this point I'm very confident that he is not going to turn into a young Adrian Peterson or Barry Sanders with a different team. He is a quality, but not great NFL player and I see no reason to suspect otherwise.

It's the same conversation as Howard. OJ would be an upgrade for sure but it's far from conclusive that he fills the Pats need at TE for the long term.
Even if you judge him only on his stats, he's a pretty good runner. He was up near 5 yards a carry after the Ajayi trade and even behind Gore the next year he did fine. I don't disagree with your assessment that he's good not great, but he can be a lower end featured running back 1 who runs ok routes and has good speed. The question is not whether he's Adrian Peterson, but whether he should fetch more than a 6th rounder. He did ok on a shitty team. I wouldn't say Duke Johnson is seriously better and is a good comp of a guy who was stuck on a shitty team, but he got traded for a 3/4 and then got a decent contract.

Just not much of a market for RBs, I guess.
 

SeoulSoxFan

I Want to Hit the World with Rocket Punch
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jun 27, 2006
22,089
A Scud Away from Hell
What is a substantial offer for a player that has close to zero production?
Howard is severely misused/under-utilized by the Bucs*. He's only 24, on a rookie contract through 2020, and relatively healthy**. Teams would be paying for his potential more than past production.

* Here's an article on how the Bucs are "using him differently"
** He did miss the last game due to hamstring injury and may not be available next week either.
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
53,837
I’m not sure I get Kyed’s point here. Cooks had demonstrated high level production in the NFL with two straight seasons of 1100 receiving yards before the Pats traded for him. Howard was a high draft pick that has shown flashes of potential in a few games but is barely getting the ball in TB...
I think he's mocking the Bucs demands.
 

BigJimEd

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 4, 2002
4,432
I'd prefer Bill give old friends Matty P and Bob Quinn a call and see what it would take for Jesse James.
I doubt they are looking to move him but his snap counts are down the last couple of weeks.
 

SeoulSoxFan

I Want to Hit the World with Rocket Punch
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jun 27, 2006
22,089
A Scud Away from Hell
I'd prefer Bill give old friends Matty P and Bob Quinn a call and see what it would take for Jesse James.
I doubt they are looking to move him but his snap counts are down the last couple of weeks.
FWIW, Bucs GM Jason Licht is also an "old friend" of BB (who just signed a 4-year+ extension this summer) and he ain't giving Pats a discount.
 

Pandemonium67

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 17, 2003
5,575
Lesterland
Max Kellerman proposes a Tom Brady for Phillip Rivers trade.

Makes about as much sense as the Stooges trading Curly to the Marx Bros. for Groucho.
 

Two Youks

New Member
Jun 18, 2013
124
Serious question:

Why do people keep bringing up what Max Kellerman says? The guy is a clown who says idiotic things in order to get clicks. His opinion is literally worthless.
 

BigSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
May 31, 2007
47,083
Just got notification that Redskins looking to deal Josh Norman. Not sure he is that good anymore but somebody should bite, maybe KC. Turns 32 in December.
 

LaszloKovacks

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 21, 2006
2,134
Los Angeles via Providence
Serious question:

Why do people keep bringing up what Max Kellerman says? The guy is a clown who says idiotic things in order to get clicks. His opinion is literally worthless.
Or any talking head with a "take." It's all pro wrestling. These guys are just cutting promos to get heat one way or the other. We should be better than this.
 

E5 Yaz

Transcends message boarding
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 25, 2002
90,014
Oregon
Breer: Eagles OT Halapoulivaati Vaitai continues to be a name of interest on the market; plenty of teams have offensive line needs, and Vaitai, in a contract year, could help. Philadelphia is stocked at the position, and if GM Howie Roseman does move the fourth-year pro, who started at left tackle for the Eagles in Super Bowl LII, I wouldn’t be stunned to see a player coming back. The team has explored the corner market, and there are tackle-needy teams (Cleveland, New England) with depth at that spot.