2019 NFL: Trade Deadline Thread

j44thor

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So MIA the big winner on trade deadline day? Things I didn't expect to type today.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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It would suck to be a Bengals fan. What the fuck good is AJ Green to you? Unless nobody wanted him -- hard to believe -- why on earth would you keep him? If you're going to be 0-8, the upside is that you have a chance to tack $5 million on to your cap for next year and get a pick or two. Even a 3d, or a 4th and 5th, or whatever. Just doesn't make any fucking sense.
 

BigSoxFan

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I hope we will survive without OJ Howard and Tyler Eifert. Thoughts and prayers to the Howard fans.
Hopefully the members of the Patriots front office who do this stuff for a living and wanted him are doing ok.
 

BigSoxFan

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And you know this because Twitter reporters said the Patriots were interested?
Who are the front office members you are referring to?
It was being widely reported by multiple sources. Sure, possible they could all have been wrong or, more likely, the Pats did have some level of interest that didn't align with the asking price. But if you want to take a victory lap over the fact that a deal wasn't consummated, go right ahead. He would have helped this team.
 

5dice

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I’ll stop now.

My general feeling is that nothing will bring back what we have had the luxury of at that TE position for 10 years. It is a complicated position on this evolved team and plugging and playing an OK TE midyear would not be what many are hoping for and especially not for a valuable draft pick.

Better OL play will key everything from James White looking more like himself and not getting stopped short over and over again. It will make Burkhead and Michel look like the beasts they looked like last year. It will give the QB more time to throw downfield and turtle less. It all begins with Wynn being back.
 

BigSoxFan

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I’ll stop now.

My general feeling is that nothing will bring back what we have had the luxury of at that TE position for 10 years. It is a complicated position on this evolved team and plugging and playing an OK TE midyear would not be what many are hoping for and especially not for a valuable draft pick.

Better OL play will key everything from James White looking more like himself and not getting stopped short over and over again. It will make Burkhead and Michel look like the beasts they looked like last year. It will give the QB more time to throw downfield and turtle less. It all begins with Wynn being back.
I don’t disagree. A first was too rich for my blood. A 3rd and maybe later pick would have been just about right for me. In the end, the OL is most important but getting Wynn back AND a 2 way TE like Howard would have been beneficial. Even just getting Dwayne Allen back would be really helpful. The passing game should be fine with Sanu and Harry coming shortly. Brady has a lot of big targets to throw to now.
 

RedOctober3829

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I’ll stop now.

My general feeling is that nothing will bring back what we have had the luxury of at that TE position for 10 years. It is a complicated position on this evolved team and plugging and playing an OK TE midyear would not be what many are hoping for and especially not for a valuable draft pick.

Better OL play will key everything from James White looking more like himself and not getting stopped short over and over again. It will make Burkhead and Michel look like the beasts they looked like last year. It will give the QB more time to throw downfield and turtle less. It all begins with Wynn being back.
Well if you compare anything at TE to Gronk it's going to always come up short. But, they certainly needed to look to upgrade the position with some youth who can help the passing game. I am perplexed as to why Bill hasn't looked to draft a TE in the early round in recent years knowing Gronk's status was up in the air.
 

Willie Clay's Big Play

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Well if you compare anything at TE to Gronk it's going to always come up short. But, they certainly needed to look to upgrade the position with some youth who can help the passing game. I am perplexed as to why Bill hasn't looked to draft a TE in the early round in recent years knowing Gronk's status was up in the air.
I'm sure it was much less up in the air for BB and the FO. It was also a chance to build up the rest if the roster and develop strengths in other areas, like WR :)
 

Super Nomario

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Well if you compare anything at TE to Gronk it's going to always come up short. But, they certainly needed to look to upgrade the position with some youth who can help the passing game. I am perplexed as to why Bill hasn't looked to draft a TE in the early round in recent years knowing Gronk's status was up in the air.
I think they're super- picky about TE blocking and have no interest in the Engram / Gesicki / Amaro types who don't block.
 

5dice

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Well if you compare anything at TE to Gronk it's going to always come up short. But, they certainly needed to look to upgrade the position with some youth who can help the passing game. I am perplexed as to why Bill hasn't looked to draft a TE in the early round in recent years knowing Gronk's status was up in the air.
It’s been talked about, but even in a “rich” TE draft, Hockenson and Fant were never a reality for a team that drafts late even with a move up and the dropoff after was steep. The unicorn that isn’t a glorified OT or a glorified WR and can do both roles is just really rare.
 

RedOctober3829

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It’s been talked about, but even in a “rich” TE draft, Hockenson and Fant were never a reality for a team that drafts late even with a move up and the dropoff after was steep. The unicorn that isn’t a glorified OT or a glorified WR and can do both roles is just really rare.
I'd be fine with a glorified WR and a glorified OT to tag team the position. They need to use an early pick on a pass catcher and you should be able to get a solid blocker late in the draft or as a UDFA.
 

( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)

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I'd be fine with a glorified WR and a glorified OT to tag team the position. They need to use an early pick on a pass catcher and you should be able to get a solid blocker late in the draft or as a UDFA.
like the undrafted EricTomlinson or undrafted Matt LaCosse or 7th rounder Ryan Izzo or undrafted Andrew Beck?

I think the reality is more that you can get someone that you’re projecting to maybe be a solid whatever late in the draft or as a UDFA but in reality you are almost always going to end up with something like those four guys above.
 

( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)

T&A
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Really disappointed that they didn’t get OL help. Everyone putting all their eggs in the ‘Wynn coming back will stabilize things’ basket seem to be ignoring the fact that they are still going to be paper thin at OL and that more injuries are going to happen.

Through preseason and their first 8 games they lost the starting center for the year, the starting LT for all games to date and their starting RG just missed a game. That’s only half the year.

Assume for a second that Wynn comes back for the game after the bye. There will be 10 games left to play if they get to the Super Bowl. Does anyone think all 5 starting linemen are going to be healthy for all 10 of those games? Seems very unlikely.

getting Wynn back will be great but more likely then not their OL depth will be tested again before the season ends.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Really disappointed that they didn’t get OL help. Everyone putting all their eggs in the ‘Wynn coming back will stabilize things’ basket seem to be ignoring the fact that they are still going to be paper thin at OL and that more injuries are going to happen.

Through preseason and their first 8 games they lost the starting center for the year, the starting LT for all games to date and their starting RG just missed a game. That’s only half the year.

Assume for a second that Wynn comes back for the game after the bye. There will be 10 games left to play if they get to the Super Bowl. Does anyone think all 5 starting linemen are going to be healthy for all 10 of those games? Seems very unlikely.

getting Wynn back will be great but more likely then not their OL depth will be tested again before the season ends.
I am really worried about the OL too; that seems like a potential fatal flaw.

I do think there is one other thing to consider in this, which is that Dante has a tremendous track record driving internal improvement and they might have some optimism about what (say) Eluemunor or Cunningham will be by the playoffs. Does that make me feel great? No, but it likely was part of their calculus on making a deal.
 

lexrageorge

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The problem with upgrading the OL is the availability of players. They picked up Cunningham, Eluemunor, Bodine (cut), and Newhouse already. Teams don't seem to trade starting linemen, and the available backups are probably not a lot better than what they already have on the roster. They were also tight on the cap, and squeezing a player in so he can sit after Wynn returns is not the best use of resources. Their greatest need, center, is probably the hardest position to upgrade mid-season. Losing 3 starters on the OL is tough for any team.
 

BigSoxFan

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The problem with upgrading the OL is the availability of players. They picked up Cunningham, Eluemunor, Bodine (cut), and Newhouse already. Teams don't seem to trade starting linemen, and the available backups are probably not a lot better than what they already have on the roster. They were also tight on the cap, and squeezing a player in so he can sit after Wynn returns is not the best use of resources. Their greatest need, center, is probably the hardest position to upgrade mid-season. Losing 3 starters on the OL is tough for any team.
Yup. It sucks having to rely on Wynn’s health but that’s basically where we are. If he comes back and remains healthy, that’s a solid OL. He really is the key. Doubt there were any material improvements available.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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i was actually encouraged that Ferentz could be a good depth piece. Was he an all pro Sunday? No, but that is a good defensive line. When Mason was a scratch, I was really worried. For a guy that had two snaps a game this year, but had to play every down Sunday, I thought he was better than we had reason to expect. Plus, his hustle plays makes you think he’s coachable. He could be serviceable depth for sure.

Also, I think Wynn coming back will also make Newhouse better. Get him off the blind side to the side he’s more accustomed to playing, fewer snaps, and maybe things improve.
 

SMU_Sox

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I think they're super- picky about TE blocking and have no interest in the Engram / Gesicki / Amaro types who don't block.
Yes. When looking at the Pats history of drafting or spending on TEs they tend to invest heavily in guys they think can do both. They also want a history of production at the position. Lastly if the guy is a round 1-4 pick his RAS has to be 8+. In other words they only draft elite athletes. This year we had one guy fit their profile: Hockenson. None of the other TEs were either athletic enough, could block well enough, receive well enough, or had the production to justify the pick*.


I'd be fine with a glorified WR and a glorified OT to tag team the position. They need to use an early pick on a pass catcher and you should be able to get a solid blocker late in the draft or as a UDFA.
I might be "fine" with it but I wouldn't be happy because your lack of a dynamic TE makes the offense in turn less dynamic. The thing with a tight end is that you want to be able to manipulate how the defense lines up. You want to run against light boxes and throw against loaded boxes. The tight end helps you set how the defense lines up. But without a dynamic tight end you tip your hand a bit. It's ok to tip your hand if you can execute but it's still not ideal.
If you have a glorified OT then you are going to be going up against most likely base defenses with a non-receiver at the position. Running the ball against base isn't optimal. You could pass it but, again, one of the options you brought onto the field isn't going to necessarily help you with that. Now that's ok in some situations. You have some max protect plays. I think their yankee concept is designed with max protect for example.

With a receiving TE only you aren't fooling anyone either. When the Rams went 12 or 21 their tight ends didn't necessitate the Patriots countering with base defense in the Super Bowl because neither of their TEs could block worth a damn and you saw them get obliterated near the LOS. If your TEs are just going to get an extra DB on the field and you plan on passing that doesn't help with mismatches.

Now if the point of this is at the minimum you need one of each type if you can't have a dynamic TE I agree with you there. Right now I am concerned about the lack of quality blocking TEs on the team. Izzo might be able to take on some lighter LBs but him against a DE or doing what Gronk did, wham blocking Aaron Donald, DEs, DTS, etc, would be a joke. I think they miss Gronk the blocker more than Gronk the receiver this year.

*I argued Dawson Knox was that guy but with 0 TDs and coming from Matt Luke's shit-show of an offense at Ole Miss BB probably viewed him as only knowing how to run 3-4 routes. He was also a QB convert so only 2-3 years XP at the position. Sternberger was another potential fit but with his athletic testing they probably would not have touched him until rounds 4+ and he went earlier. Fant and Smith jr. were not options in the first 3 rounds given their lack of size and that they are move types.