It'll be a mediocre news conference overall and the last half of it will actually be worse than average but New Yorkers will talk about it like it was great.
2019 NFL: News & Transactions
- Thread starter tims4wins
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Now I'm angry all over again.
Manning is essentially Jim Plunkett with a longer career. Manning 117-117 as a starter, 2 SB wins. Plunkett 72-72 as a starter, 2 SB wins.
I don't dislike HIM, per se, but much like Jeter it's easy to be peeved about the hagiographic tones with which he was covered because he was in NY, durable, and happened to be on good, winning teams. It's the disproportionate nature of his rep that bothers me.
That and his stupid face.
That's my question to the Giants fans around my area when they said "Next stop Canton" for Eli. If they say Plunkett isn't a HOFer, then they are immediately known as either a hypocrit or someone that doesn't know football.
Shit, if Eli goes in than Flacco should as well. Only 1 SB but a better record as a starting QB and better stats all around. Let's make the slope as slippery as possible.
Eli never won a single playoff game outside his 2 SB runs. He's got the strangest career ever. If Mike Carey calls the fucking rididulously obvious hold on O'Hara on the Tyree play we'd be spared all this nonsense.
Eli never won a single playoff game outside his 2 SB runs. He's got the strangest career ever. If Mike Carey calls the fucking rididulously obvious hold on O'Hara on the Tyree play we'd be spared all this nonsense.
Heh, Dan Patrick just made this comparison on his radio show. He said put Manning in the HoF, if you put Plunkett in as well
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Shit, go whole hog. If they're going to sully the Hall with Eli, put in every mediocre QB who's won something. Plunkett, Flacco, Simms, Hostetler, Doug Williams, Dilfer, Johnson. Open the flood gates!
Trent Dilfer? Come on Man! You gotta be better than this.. if Dilfer then how bout Joe Kapp? Craig Morton (He played on some of the Cowboys SB teams and led Denver to the Super Bowl in 77)
I've written this before but I would pay a decent chunk of money for the right to argue against Manning. I would prepare for weeks. I would unleash an avalanche of anti-Manning statistics.
And then the voters would probably shrug and say "2 ringz vs. Pats!" and vote him in anyway.
The craziest stat about Eli is that he was only in the playoffs 6 of his 16 years and was a 1 and done 4 of those 6 years.
Yup. Playoff wins in 2 years out of 16. That’s awful. His argument is all about high profile wins, which includes at GB, at SF, Pats twice. Lots of incredibly fortunate plays like helmet catch, Welker drop, Kyle Williams fumble, etc.
Not sure why people are saying Plunkett was just as good as Eli....
Plunkett career stats
Completion% 52.5
Pass yards/Attempt: 7.0
TD's - 164 (4.4 per attempt)
INT's - 198 (5.3 per attempt)
QB rating - 67.5
Eli Manning career stats
Completion% 60.3
Pass yards/Attempt: 7.0
TD's - 366 (4.5 per attempt)
INT's - 244 (3.0 per attempt)
QB rating - 84.1
Plunkett career stats
Completion% 52.5
Pass yards/Attempt: 7.0
TD's - 164 (4.4 per attempt)
INT's - 198 (5.3 per attempt)
QB rating - 67.5
Eli Manning career stats
Completion% 60.3
Pass yards/Attempt: 7.0
TD's - 366 (4.5 per attempt)
INT's - 244 (3.0 per attempt)
QB rating - 84.1
45th all-time in passer rating
43rd all time in completion percentage
51st all time in interception percentage
71st all time in touchdown percentage
12th all time in interceptions (the only two active QBs in the Top 30 are Brees and Rivers)
No one is. People are saying that if a mediocre quarterback should get in because he won 2 Super Bowls, than other mediocre quarterbacks should get in for winning 2 Super Bowls
In the 2007 playoff run he had a better QB rating in each game vs. Garcia, Romo, Favre and Brady. In the 4th quarter of the SB, he threw for 150 yards and 2 TDs. At one point in his career he had more 4th Qtr comebacks than any active QB.
Was he not that good in the last 6-7 years of his career? Sure. The Giants teams outside of one year were bad and his offensive line has been putrid since the last super bowl he was in. I'm sure that didn't help an aging quarterback's performance.
As a Giants fan, I don't even care about the hall of fame stuff, I can see both sides of the argument. But his super bowl runs are what Giants fans care most about. The Manning to Manningham pass/catch in 2011 was one of the greatest plays in Super Bowl history when you consider the perfect pass and catch and what was hanging in the balance when it happened.
Actually a lot of people are. They are saying that Plunkett and Manning are basically the same player.
I think you're reading those posts other than the way in which they were intended
Ignoring offensive context entirely here. Plunkett played in an era that was significantly more difficult for QBs and in a lower-scoring environment.
They're both .500 QBs with 2 SB rings. The only category Eli ever led the league in was INTs....3 times.
Neither belongs in the Hall.
He played in NY, his last name is Manning, has two SB rings and beat the evil evil Pats both times. He's going in on the first attempt.
Had he beaten, say, the Chargers and Ravens for his rings I doubt he goes in, honestly. At the very least he'd have to wait a few years.
You guys are like little windup toys. All it takes is somebody typing the words "Eli Manning" and we get 20+ posts making the same old comments about him not really being any good, there's a dozen or more contemporary QBs who were better, he's the new Jim Plunkett, and, of course, PTSD-laden references to two Super Bowls the Patriots should have won.
I agree that he shouldn't really be a Hall of Famer, but come on already.
I agree that he shouldn't really be a Hall of Famer, but come on already.
He just announced his retirement and the Eli is a HOFer discussions are all over Twitter. We're hardly making anything up here. There's a reason we're talking about him again.
I could maybe see a case if Eli had performed amazing in the 2 SBs and essentially carried his team to victory each time. But, of course, that's not at all what happened - the first win was entirely on the Giants' defense and the fluke Tyree play. Eli was better in the second Super Bowl (and that postseason more generally), but the Giants still scored only 21 points and Manning's stats (~300 yards, 1 TD) were above average but hardly amazing.
To your point, the overall NFL completion pct was 52.9 in 1973. It was 61.2 in 2013.
I believe and agree with everything you say here. I just think they both belong in the HOF.
Plunkett threw 30 more INT's than TD's. Manning threw 120 more TD's than INT's.
I'm not even saying Eli will get in the HOF, but come on. Plunkett was not nearly as good as Manning.
Again, the NFL offensive environment in the era Plunkett played was far more difficult for QBs than the era Manning played in. Check out dokes' post above.
If more INTs than TDs bothers you, don't look at Namath's stats.
Plunkett had a very similar career than Manning. Manning's was better because he was more durable, but playing 50 more games at a .500 pace doesn't add much to the greatness meter either. Call Manning's career 25% better.
Manning had ONE season where he was top 10 in QB rating. He was 7th. Volume stats only count if you also have efficiency stats. 51st in int%, 71st in TD%, 43rd in completion%, 35th in ANY/A.
In any case, my point is that neither is HoF worthy.
It doesn't matter that in both super bowls his team was trailing late in the game and he brought them down the field for game-winning Touchdowns both times?
And as for the "fluke" Tyree play, how is that fluky? Great play by Eli to get out of 1 or 2 sacks, then a great catch by Tyree. There was no luck involved.
Eli will definitely have support, but it's hard to say he's a shoo-in given how crazy difficult it is to get into the HOF. Only five each year. Are people really going to vote for him over any number of deserving options at other positions? He also needs 80% yes votes once he gets to the final council; I can imagine a majority wanting him in but more than 20% wanting him out.
The five-year wait probably hurts him, too. He's 7th in passing yards and TDs now but Roethlisberger, Ryan, and Rodgers are going to pass him soon.
The five-year wait probably hurts him, too. He's 7th in passing yards and TDs now but Roethlisberger, Ryan, and Rodgers are going to pass him soon.
To be fair, the second SB was a really "short" game with very few offensive possessions by both teams. The Giants put up 13 points on only four second-half possessions. They only had 9 drives and one was a kneel-down at the end of the first half, but they still possessed the ball for more than 37 minutes. Eli ripped up the Patriots D that game, putting the NE O in garbage field position all game (one of which led to the safety), holding the ball, and scoring almost every drive in the second half.
Had he played better for the first 3.5 quarters, they wouldn't have been trailing ... since the Giants defense had done its job
The more INT than TD is a poor argument. For instance, in 1974 Plunkett threw 19 TD vs 22 INT. Bad, right?
The league as a whole threw 376 TD vs 500 INT!!
Compare this to say, 2013, when Eli led the league in picks. The league threw 804 TDs against 502 picks.
So in 40 years of football evolution, with passing attempts going through the roof, the INTs stayed the same... and the TDs doubled.
Edit: ~18,000 passing attempts in 2013 vs. 9,600 in 1974. Nearly double as many passes, same # of picks, double the TDs.
The league as a whole threw 376 TD vs 500 INT!!
Compare this to say, 2013, when Eli led the league in picks. The league threw 804 TDs against 502 picks.
So in 40 years of football evolution, with passing attempts going through the roof, the INTs stayed the same... and the TDs doubled.
Edit: ~18,000 passing attempts in 2013 vs. 9,600 in 1974. Nearly double as many passes, same # of picks, double the TDs.
Yeah it was a vastly different game in the 70s. Run, run and then pass on third down. And go ahead and chuck it deep on third down - if they pick it off it's just like a punt anyway.
Dr. Emanuel Kazinski might agree with you.
(Start at 6:50.)
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPgufWE6fwI&list=PLmoo_Amk6Y7Gv2-fR3zQP09VcugEiVuhE&index=15&t=0s
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Yeah, I know. And people are making the same arguments and posting the same stats that they did every other time Eli's name has come up in the last decade. Just like when Jones was drafted and Eli was benched and then Eli got to play again and there was speculation that Eli just played his last game. And that's just in the last 9 months...
Don't fret ... after this week, you won't have to read it again for five years
The NFL doesn't want to cause more controversy because at his age his balls are regularly underinflated.
Other than the egregious holding calls that weren’t called, sure. Despite all that, he gets credit for escaping. Many QBs would have gone down there. But he basically just wound up and threw the ball up for grabs and Tyree made a great catch.
To be fair, in 2007 he was facing statistically the better defense and he still put a better QBR in the game than Brady did and led the game-winning drive in the final minutes. In 2011, he put up nearly 300 yards and made big plays to lead them in the final minutes with the game on the line.
I don't think he's getting in the HOF and I think the HOF fame talk actually hurts his career honestly because it brings out a lot of negative comments about his career - and he did have them no doubt. But again, the last 5-6 years of his career the Giants OL was pretty horrible and that certainly didn't help.
He'll get into the Giants ring of honor and his career will be remembered for his two great SB runs. In the end, that's good enough.
Well this is certainly refreshing to read compared to the MFY fans who are all pissed off because Jetes wasn't unanimous
He threw the ball right to the one guy in the middle of the field. It was a little high - granted he was flushed out of the pocket and threw it 40 yards down the field, so not sure anyone can expect a perfectly thrown pass right at the numbers.