2019 NFL: News & Transactions

RedOctober3829

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
55,300
deep inside Guido territory
Justin Houston should be the next Patriots' FA target especially if Flowers leaves.


Chiefs are releasing four-time Pro-Bowl LB Justin Houston, per source. They had tried to trade him, but no one willing to pick up the $15.25 million base salary that was due this season. Houston now a free agent.
 

RedOctober3829

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
55,300
deep inside Guido territory

Justin Houston has an excellent relationship with Patriots pass rush coach Joe Kim from their time together in Kansas City. Will be interesting to see if New England takes a look at Houston, especially if Trey Flowers leaves via free agency.
 

BigSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
May 31, 2007
47,094
Given the money out there, i
If so, would we prefer:

four or five years of Flowers
-or-
one or two years of Houston, the 3rd round comp. pick, and a few extra million to spend elsewhere
Flowers. We know what he can do in the system and he’s much younger.
 

54thMA

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 15, 2012
10,154
Westwood MA
Yes you’re right here’s post 16:



I’d like to tell them it’s not like getting the Oakland 2nd and 4th. Or even the Pittsburgh 2nd and 4th. But it’s kind of like if they got the Pats 2nd and 4th.
So back in his youth, when that guy went to a bar in Pittsburg and hooked up with two girls that were 5's, does he tell his buddies he nailed a 10?
 

BigSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
May 31, 2007
47,094
The combined cap hit of Michel/White/Burkhead next year is like $9.7M. Yeah, I think we’re all set here.
 

Mugsy's Jock

Eli apologist
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 28, 2000
15,069
UWS, NYC
Right. He became a diva. He wasn’t a diva as a 6th rd pick out of a nowhere school / conference.
I don’t think Brown was a diva WR coming out of college. And he fit himself gloriously into the Steelers offense. In his case, I’d skip ahead to “get rid of him a year too early rather than a year too late.” Which Isure as hell couldnt predict, but am blessed to root for a team that’s pretty good at that.
 

koufax32

He'll cry if he wants to...
SoSH Member
Dec 8, 2006
9,092
Duval
List probably came from his agent. Since Bell is pretty salty over his treatment the last year or two I’m sure his list exists for the sole purpose of ticking off PIT and their fans. We’ve heard NE and BAL. No chance he goes to either but just the discussion is enough to cause some Yinzer heads to explode.
 

Justthetippett

New Member
Aug 9, 2015
2,393
Bell is overvalued as an RB but undervalued as a WR/RB, offensive weapon. If the price goes down close to $30 million/3 years would not put it past BB to make a surprise signing.
 

singaporesoxfan

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 21, 2004
11,882
Washington, DC
List probably came from his agent. Since Bell is pretty salty over his treatment the last year or two I’m sure his list exists for the sole purpose of ticking off PIT and their fans. We’ve heard NE and BAL. No chance he goes to either but just the discussion is enough to cause some Yinzer heads to explode.
A lot of Steelers commentary I’ve seen has been about how Pittsburgh has become a place where players know they can shoot their way out of town, including critiques of Tomlin enabling this behaviour, but I don’t think I’ve seen enough about *why* so many players seem to want to do so. Is it that players feel badly treated? Hard done in by the management’s negotiation style? Yes, other teams have disgruntled players but at Pittsburgh it seems players like Bell are willing to act on that and hurt themselves economically out of spite.

The Patriots have benefited from this in the case of LGBT and James Harrison, so I can’t complain as a Pats fan, but I’m curious
 

pappymojo

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 28, 2010
6,668
List probably came from his agent. Since Bell is pretty salty over his treatment the last year or two I’m sure his list exists for the sole purpose of ticking off PIT and their fans. We’ve heard NE and BAL. No chance he goes to either but just the discussion is enough to cause some Yinzer heads to explode.
Is Baltimore that outlandish of a destination? With their QB and O-line, they are built for a strong running attack.
 

bosockboy

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
19,863
St. Louis, MO
Is Baltimore that outlandish of a destination? With their QB and O-line, they are built for a strong running attack.
They would have to prioritize him over Mosley. I’ll be very surprised if Bell doesn’t land in Oakland. They cleared out even more
cap space today, and he is a perfect fit in Gruden’s offense.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

Homeland Security
SoSH Member
Dec 4, 2005
19,615
Portsmouth, NH
I don’t think Brown was a diva WR coming out of college. And he fit himself gloriously into the Steelers offense. In his case, I’d skip ahead to “get rid of him a year too early rather than a year too late.” Which Isure as hell couldnt predict, but am blessed to root for a team that’s pretty good at that.
So then how does the bolded portion of your previous post have any value? I’m not trying to be a dink but if you make the point to ‘not draft diva WRs’, but admit you don’t know that when you’re dragging them,,,,?

I’m fully on board with your other points, but they screwed him on his contract and his coach can’t control a locker room. They created the diva.
 

koufax32

He'll cry if he wants to...
SoSH Member
Dec 8, 2006
9,092
Duval
Is Baltimore that outlandish of a destination? With their QB and O-line, they are built for a strong running attack.
I was thinking from a money perspective.


Now that I look at it they have over $35 mil. in space. So maybe they could afford him.

And while I’m looking at cap situations, the Colts could become a very good team. That’s a lot of money to play with. Imagine if they added a few key guys.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

Homeland Security
SoSH Member
Dec 4, 2005
19,615
Portsmouth, NH
Colts - other than Bell, Flowers, Thomas or maybe Amos (?) I’m not seeing a ton of big money guys out there. Tough year to have $100m+ in cap space; seems ripe for a bad decision.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 2, 2006
22,345
Philadelphia
Fowler signed for 1/14. I guess he is betting that if he maintains his postseason level of play through next year he’ll set himself up for a mega deal. Pretty risky gamble given his history though.
 

Ed Hillel

Wants to be startin somethin
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2007
43,592
Here
This:
Colts - other than Bell, Flowers, Thomas or maybe Amos (?) I’m not seeing a ton of big money guys out there. Tough year to have $100m+ in cap space; seems ripe for a bad decision.
...flows well into this:

Fowler signed for 1/14. I guess he is betting that if he maintains his postseason level of play through next year he’ll set himself up for a mega deal. Pretty risky gamble given his history though.
Jesus, that is an overpay by the Rams. He was basically Clayborn last year. One year, I guess, but still. They better win this year or next, because their cap management is utter shit, and when a QB gets expensive, they’re in trouble.

Btw, regarding the Colts, I’ve read an article or two that their GM is in no rush to spend and will wait it out an offseason or two. Sounds like they might finally have it together...assuming Luck’s arm stays together, which I’m still not convinced of.
 
Last edited:

KiltedFool

has a terminal case of creeping sharia
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2005
2,400
Brown wasn't a diva coming out of college, he was a 6th round pick with a chip on his shoulder who wasn't even guaranteed a helmet on game day, he and Emmanual Sanders were competing for a helmet a lot at the time. He was self motivated enough to work incredibly hard, to the point he was credibly called the best receiver in the game by many, and clearly was in the top handful. How do you thread the needle of keeping someone that self motivated and driven from becoming completely self absorbed and turning into a monster? It ain't an easy lift, though personally I think after the facebook live debacle from the locker room was the time to come down on him hard. Ben's got a bit of dickhead streak in him (cancel the damn radio show you idiot) but at the end of the day a lot of AB's ranting can be laid at the feet of the fact it's a quarterback's league. QB's are more tied in with the coaches and ownership than any WR, across the entire league

Bell's a different story, his overall goal has always been to reestablish the running back contract strata back to where it was and especially guaranteed money, and that's generally not going to happen. And with his multiple suspensions and injuries even with his talent he's not the one to gamble a truckload of guaranteed on. Steelers made him several big money offers and they do have a tendency of their homegrown guys finishing contracts. But every time it got close Bell saw someone else get a big contract or a bigger guarantee and went full Veruca. I'll be curious how well he does in his new home, it's going to be hard for him to land in a better situation in terms of O-line and complimentary passing game, and he ha sa lot of money to make up to offset the 14.5M he left on the table.
 

InstaFace

The Ultimate One
SoSH Member
Sep 27, 2016
21,770
Pittsburgh, PA
Wasn't Randy Moss largely in the same boat, coming out of a relative backwater like Marshall? I suppose he was still a late 1st rounder; maybe Terrell Owens is a better comp as a 3rd-round pick coming from UT-Chattanooga.
 

Super Nomario

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 5, 2000
14,012
Mansfield MA
Wasn't Randy Moss largely in the same boat, coming out of a relative backwater like Marshall? I suppose he was still a late 1st rounder; maybe Terrell Owens is a better comp as a 3rd-round pick coming from UT-Chattanooga.
Moss was at Marshall because he couldn't stay out of trouble at Notre Dame and Florida State.

Honestly, I am not sure the size of the school has much to do with divaness. Obviously the bigger name programs are going to have heavily-recruited guys, but being a big fish in a small pond can inflate the ego too.

I think there's also a fine line between having a chip on your shoulder because you were the underdog / late-round pick, etc. and feeling like you're disrespected, underpaid, and underappreciated by the team cutting your checks, too.
 

Fred in Lynn

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 3, 2013
4,905
Not Lynn (or Ocean Side)
So then how does the bolded portion of your previous post have any value? I’m not trying to be a dink but if you make the point to ‘not draft diva WRs’, but admit you don’t know that when you’re dragging them,,,,?

I’m fully on board with your other points, but they screwed him on his contract and his coach can’t control a locker room. They created the diva.
It’s not clear to me how a player willingly taking pen in hand to sign his name is a screw job. They screwed themselves by converting his roster bonus and almost all his base salary to a signing bonus.

I am mixed on Tomlin. I agree he lost control of the room last year, but on the other hand, a professional athlete shouldn’t have to be repeatedly told to show up for meetings, not post stupid things on social media, and the like. Whatever the case, the idea that Brown would have shown up on time and been a model citizen - in terms of the administrative BS that everyone hates but does anyway - in any other locker room seems like a bit of a stretch. He does that because that’s who he is (to be fair, he’s hardly lazy when it comes to actually putting in the work; that on-field All-Pro product is almost entirely of his own creation through sheer effort and dedication to craft). They exasperated the diva, they didn’t create him.
 

dcmissle

Deflatigator
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Aug 4, 2005
28,269
There was no doubt about Moss’ talent. Lou Holtz said Moss was the greatest high school player he had ever seen; Bobby Bowden said he was as talented as Deion Sanders. Everything on tape at Marshall confirmed this.

Moss was dogged by high school incidents. There also was concern about weed, which had been used against Warren Sapp several years before. Teams got scared.
 

KiltedFool

has a terminal case of creeping sharia
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2005
2,400
Brown isn't the incredibly gifted physical specimen Moss or many other are/were. It was all hard work and fanatical drive that created him. How do you keep that from going off the rails if that's the way he's headed? And now that he's out of town we start hearing how he got special treatment and got away with a lot of crap over time.

Ryan Clark is now an analyst and has commented when they gave AB his first big contract that was when they started creating the monster. And it looks like that may have been accurate. Of course back then AB was a nobody and Mike Wallace turned down a large contract so they gave it to AB. And Wallace has done ok for himself but has never really gone on to do much. The track record of receivers that leave Pittsburgh is not a parade of epic, Sanders is likely the best performer.
 

Fred in Lynn

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 3, 2013
4,905
Not Lynn (or Ocean Side)
List probably came from his agent. Since Bell is pretty salty over his treatment the last year or two I’m sure his list exists for the sole purpose of ticking off PIT and their fans. We’ve heard NE and BAL. No chance he goes to either but just the discussion is enough to cause some Yinzer heads to explode.
“Treatment” - ha ha. He was offered a king’s ransom - for a RB! And it’s not as though his resume was immaculate. Don’t get me wrong - Le’Veon is a great player and he’s better than Conner. But he’s not remotely more valuable than Conner now and for a few years. The calculus is not replacing Bell with Conner, it’s replacing Bell with Conner and an ILB, DB, extending players, or whatever. They don’t have nearly enough cap room as it is - letting Bell walk (and getting a compensatory 3rd) is the smart move, even if he signs with a conference/division rival.
 

Fred in Lynn

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 3, 2013
4,905
Not Lynn (or Ocean Side)
Brown isn't the incredibly gifted physical specimen Moss or many other are/were. It was all hard work and fanatical drive that created him. How do you keep that from going off the rails if that's the way he's headed? And now that he's out of town we start hearing how he got special treatment and got away with a lot of crap over time.

Ryan Clark is now an analyst and has commented when they gave AB his first big contract that was when they started creating the monster. And it looks like that may have been accurate. Of course back then AB was a nobody and Mike Wallace turned down a large contract so they gave it to AB. And Wallace has done ok for himself but has never really gone on to do much. The track record of receivers that leave Pittsburgh is not a parade of epic, Sanders is likely the best performer.
Maybe they created it, maybe they didn’t (I’ll stand by the “they exasperated it” argument I made earlier).

On Clark’s comments: I am sure he knows what he’s taking about from first-hand experience, but the Steelers got a ton of production out of Brown. The divorce might have been really ugly and left the Steelers naked by the side of the road, but it was never a dumb move to hang his jersey in the stall every Sunday for years and have him go out and be great on the field.
 

koufax32

He'll cry if he wants to...
SoSH Member
Dec 8, 2006
9,092
Duval
“Treatment” - ha ha. He was offered a king’s ransom - for a RB! And it’s not as though his resume was immaculate. Don’t get me wrong - Le’Veon is a great player and he’s better than Conner. But he’s not remotely more valuable than Conner now and for a few years. The calculus is not replacing Bell with Conner, it’s replacing Bell with Conner and an ILB, DB, extending players, or whatever. They don’t have nearly enough cap room as it is - letting Bell walk (and getting a compensatory 3rd) is the smart move, even if he signs with a conference/division rival.
I was referring to Bell’a view of the situation.
 

KiltedFool

has a terminal case of creeping sharia
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2005
2,400
I've been mentally calling him Steamin Le'Veon Beamen for a while now.

Maybe they created it, maybe they didn’t (I’ll stand by the “they exasperated it” argument I made earlier).

On Clark’s comments: I am sure he knows what he’s taking about from first-hand experience, but the Steelers got a ton of production out of Brown. The divorce might have been really ugly and left the Steelers naked by the side of the road, but it was never a dumb move to hang his jersey in the stall every Sunday for years and have him go out and be great on the field.
I'm gonna agree with you, though I think exacerbated is what you were going for. They definitely got their money's worth out of Brown prior to 2018 and for most of that season. Another big red flag to me as an old "you kids get off my yard" type is when he had separate quarters at training camp. The "arriving in exotic vehicles" thing has been a humorous side story for years, Brett Kiesel showed up on a tractor one year, but when AB didn't rough it in the St. Vincent dorms like literally every other player, that's not a good sign. This should probably all be in the steelers thread, oops.
 

dcmissle

Deflatigator
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Aug 4, 2005
28,269
Lots of interesting stuff in this and the Steelers thread.

I think if the team were a military outfit, this would be a good time for a stand down.

The Steelers I recall made early, decisive calls on who they were keeping and who they weren’t, which would have kept them out of the Le’Veon Bell quicksand. Those Steelers also had their culture right. News was made on the field.

Bill Cowher certainly is aging well, though I was thought the son-of-Marty criticisms were overdone to begin with.
 

singaporesoxfan

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 21, 2004
11,882
Washington, DC
Lots of interesting stuff in this and the Steelers thread.

I think if the team were a military outfit, this would be a good time for a stand down.

The Steelers I recall made early, decisive calls on who they were keeping and who they weren’t, which would have kept them out of the Le’Veon Bell quicksand. Those Steelers also had their culture right. News was made on the field.

Bill Cowher certainly is aging well, though I was thought the son-of-Marty criticisms were overdone to begin with.
As I implied in the Steelers thread, I think they did make a call on Bell. They just weren't expecting that Bell would spite them and not even sign the franchise tag. Which is bad negotiation on the Steelers' part - you always should be prepared that people will act in such ways.

I was referring to Bell’a view of the situation.
Yeah, Bell is under no obligation to view things through the Steelers' lens or the market lens. They offered him a ton, but 1) they slapped the franchise tag on him which restricted his ability to negotiate and 2) he was vastly underpaid relative to what he produced as a rookie. Sure, that latter part is not the Steelers' fault, it's the CBA's, but it's easy to see how Bell could resent how the Steelers dealt with him.
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
53,850
JAX had him as a 3rd down guy by the end of the season. Either that coaching staff screwed up about as badly as possible or PHI just massively overpaid.
The twitter take seems to be that it's an absolute steal by Philly at that price.

EDIT: Wait, no. lol It was Field Yates who thought it was 3/$10 TOTAL not $10M per.
 

Ed Hillel

Wants to be startin somethin
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2007
43,592
Here
Damnit
The twitter take seems to be that it's an absolute steal by Philly at that price.
He got benched at the end and had a pretty blah year. Maybe Marrone just lost control of the team or something, but it appears he had a pretty big drop off last year.