2019 Knicks: Living On A Prayer

PedroKsBambino

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I don’t know if Simmons still has agent sources or those in the front office but back in the early and mid-2000’s he certainly did. He had the Ricky Davis trade on our private board at the old StuckOn16 confirmed two days before it was announced and not a peep of it anywhere else.
IIRC he definitely had ownership/management connections with Celtics---and not a lot has likely changed there. I'd guess there's agents in there too, but I don't know of him specifically saying so as he had with management/ownership.
 

HowBoutDemSox

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IIRC he definitely had ownership/management connections with Celtics---and not a lot has likely changed there. I'd guess there's agents in there too, but I don't know of him specifically saying so as he had with management/ownership.
Plus he's had Durant on his pod a number of times, if there's any player/agent he's connected with enough to get some info on, it wouldn't surprise me if it was KD.
 

Sam Ray Not

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Durant has seemed miserable all season long in Oakland.
Having watched the Warriors closely all year — paying special attention to KD's body language — this feels like an oversimplification. There have definitely been moments throughout the year where he has seemed weirdly sad, to the point where I've wondered if he's dealing with depression. But, you know ... people get sad. I have no idea how much any of the presumed externalities armchair psychologists like to float (Draymond is mean to him, it's not "his team," Ws fans love Steph more, e.g.) have to do with his occasionally looking depressed. Nor does Simmons, Bucher or anyone else.

I can say that over the last month or so, his body language has looked a whole lot more cheerful, even after losses. The presser after the "Steph mocks Kogut" loss may have been the cheeriest I've seen him all year, off-court, anyway. And on court, he's looked even more lively and engaged than usual lately, viz. the last game where he dropped 21 in 21 minutes, including an array of vicious off-the-dribble dunks and high-flying chasedown blocks, punctuated by very engaged-looked primal screams.

Obviously I've got my own pro-Warrior biases, but I also think there's a ton of anti-Warrior bias and confirmation bias in the "KD is miserable" narrative. We get 50,000 recycled comments anytime he shows bad body language or says something that could be construed as unhappy, and nary a peep when he says something like this just the other day:
Meanwhile, actual friends and former teammates of KD like Matt Barnes and David West, when consulted, have tended to laugh off the whole "KD hates it in Oakland" storyline as largely media-created nonsense.

Bucher's latest recycling of the storyline seems particularly stale and disingenuous, given that he delivered it with a bunch of other crusty old Warrior memes and clichés that are either false or outdated: Iguodala and Green are playing horribly, they're significantly worse at defense than last year, they all clearly don't like each other, etc. Bucher's basically a CHB-style hater from the bad old Warrior days who called the firing of Mark Jackson racist, said Curry will never be a real PG, etc. He went from one of the 3-4 best-known Warrior insiders pre-Lacob to total exile from Warrior island. Massive grain of salt for his lame attempts to lob feces over the walls of the golden kingdom he's now locked out of.

Anyway, Bucher aside, and Warrior team drama aside, color me skeptical that KD going to play for James Dolan (whom he has described a "hapless moron," per Rich Kleiman) is a "done deal."
 

HomeRunBaker

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I can say that over the last month or so, his body language has looked a whole lot more cheerful, even after losses. The presser after the "Steph mocks Kogut" loss may have been the cheeriest I've seen him all year, off-court, anyway. And on court, he's looked even more lively and engaged than usual lately, viz. the last game where he dropped 21 in 21 minutes, including an array of vicious off-the-dribble dunks and high-flying chasedown blocks, punctuated by very engaged-looked primal screams.

Obviously I've got my own pro-Warrior biases, but I also think there's a ton of anti-Warrior bias and confirmation bias in the "KD is miserable" narrative. We get 50,000 recycled comments anytime he shows bad body language or says something that could be construed as unhappy, and nary a peep when he says something like this just the other day:

Meanwhile, actual friends and former teammates of KD like Matt Barnes and David West, when consulted, have tended to laugh off the whole "KD hates it in Oakland" storyline as largely media-created nonsense.
Disclaimer: I have no Warrior bias pro or con.

1. Yeah Durant looked so happy in that 21-point game that he picked up his 15th T of the year while getting tossed in the 3rd for being very unhappy to the officials.

2. You’ve twice assumed in your post about “anti-Warrior” and “media-driven” bias. I don’t think I’ve read a single piece on the Warriors this year as they are very uninteresting during the regular season. As I opened with I am as neutral on the Warriors as I am any team in the league......I only posted what I felt seemed noticeable during the dozen or so Warrior games I’ve watched this season.
 

sezwho

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To be fair, Simmons was on the Lebron to the Lakers story a year before he signed and well before any other writer touched the rumor. He's earned some credibility on stuff like this. KD to the Knicks may not be a done deal, but it definitely seems like it might be the most plausible outcome.
Agree Simmons had Lebron to Lakers early.

As for the Knicks, in spite of the rumors I think it’s close to zero chance KD goes unless Rich Kleiman uses some Jedi mind tricks because he wants to be president.

To make any sense they would have to first win the lottery & want to trade Zion for AD & get the trade done & sign Kyrie & then sign KD. Maybe im reading too much into the okc move, but I’m thinking he only leaves a winner if he goes to what he can convince himself is a ‘sure thing’ in the east.
 

Sam Ray Not

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Disclaimer: I have no Warrior bias pro or con.

1. Yeah Durant looked so happy in that 21-point game that he picked up his 15th T of the year while getting tossed in the 3rd for being very unhappy to the officials.

2. You’ve twice assumed in your post about “anti-Warrior” and “media-driven” bias. I don’t think I’ve read a single piece on the Warriors this year as they are very uninteresting during the regular season. As I opened with I am as neutral on the Warriors as I am any team in the league......I only posted what I felt seemed noticeable during the dozen or so Warrior games I’ve watched this season.
Definitely did not mean to imply bias on your part; I was talking about the general national media framing. I feel like there's a fair amount of wishcasting in the "Warriors are unhappy" narrative, since (a) drama and strife sell; (b) the idea that the Warriors are or will soon be vulnerable sells; and (c) (of relevance to this thread) New York sports chatter sells.

There's almost certainly some truth in the drama/strife narrative too, though I'm not sure any more so than for a typical hoops team in its late dynasty phase slogging through an 82-game "preseason."

As far as the game where he got tossed — if you watched it, I suspect you'd have found it hard to read his body language and facial expressions up until the non-foul call as anything but cheerful and engaged. Griping about a bad call doesn't preclude being happy, or really say anything one way or the other about a player's general emotional state.

Either way, it's incorrect to say he "has seemed miserable all season long" unless it's possible to smile and laugh and goof around with one's teammates while seeming miserable.
 
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benhogan

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It does feel like the national media is desperate to make the 15-63 NY Knicks relevant again. Makes sense since its a huge demo. Emphasizing Durant & Kyrie are miserable and the only way they'll be happy is if they team up with the Knicks WILL definitely keep a beaten-up fan base involved from now until July 1. Add in the legitimate odds of the Knicks landing Zion (and dealing him for AD). And it's game on in the ratings game for the media pundits.

For example, every time Bill Simmons says "KD & Kyrie to the Knicks" he adds Ringer readers and podcast listeners from New York, New England and the Bay City. PLUS it gets spun by every other media outlet. Bill and his Producers are acutely aware of this (and if Bill can somehow add LeBron's name to the mix that engages the Los Angeles demo). Follow the money/ratings.

I suspect that Kyrie and Durant aren't even sure what they are doing until the playoffs end and they talk with their people.
 
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Sam Ray Not

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"Lol, let's see how bad we can blow up NBA Twitter by covering our mouths and laughing while talking about nothing. I mean, chick behind you is already licking her lips!"
 

Sam Ray Not

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Sorry to belabor this point and to link to the talking heads that I'm berating, but Colin Cowherd's show yesterday gave a classic example of "people who know sh*t vs. people who don't." Right after he had Ric Bucher on his show peddling his "KD to NY must be a real thing and a done deal, because if it weren't why would we all be talking about it so much?" tautology (i.e. "begging the question"), he brought on Stephen Jackson.

Cowherd: "You know him?"
Jackson: "Yeah, we hang out a lot."
Cowherd: "You hang out a lot. So ... when you hang out with him [furrowing his brow, leading the witness] ... does he LIKE the Warriors?"
Jackson, without hesitation: "LOVES 'em."
Cowherd: [totally flummoxed, cos he had just had Bucher on his show spewing the exact opposite]. "Okay so ... why do I keep hearing that he doesn't feel he's been given the respect?"
Jackson: "Because you people are full of shit [NB: he says "it's all speculation" but the implication is clear]. None of this is coming from him. We have no clue."

Jackson goes on to say (1) it's all about the bag o' money (NB: GS can give him more than anyone else); (2) KD should stay; (3) he would respect KD more if he stayed, cos he respects winning.

 
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the moops

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But it's not about the bag of money. If it was, wouldn't KD be in OKC? I know things change and stuff, but I think it is pretty clear that some guys value the money, others value winning, others value culture, others value fame, others women, etc.

In other words, I am skeptical that Jackson knows any more than the other blowhards
 

Sam Ray Not

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In other words, I am skeptical that Jackson knows any more than the other blowhards
I'm definitely skeptical that he knows for sure (he even says "we don't know" — take note Bucher) but confident that as KD's friend he has a better read than Simmons, Bucher, et al.

The "biggest bag" part is actually one of the few things on the subject we've heard from KD publicly, though there's always a decent chance he was just messing with people. It wouldn't at all surprise me, though: having taken discounts in the past to chase rings, help sign Andre/Shaun, etc., I could totally see him now wanting to accumulate as much cash as possible in what could potentially be at age 31+ the last phase of his NBA career. (Fwiw, I have heard through my NYT connection that he has already pondered retirement and could easily move on to the tech/media/music mogul stage of his career sooner than a lot of fans expect him to).
 
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cheech13

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Do the Knicks have to win the lottery to get in the AD trade talks? Wouldn't a 2nd or 3rd pick plus Dennis Smith/Kevin Knox/the two firsts from Dallas at least get them in the conversation? That's still a better offer than the Lakers pu pu platter.
 

jon abbey

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Do the Knicks have to win the lottery to get in the AD trade talks? Wouldn't a 2nd or 3rd pick plus Dennis Smith/Kevin Knox/the two firsts from Dallas at least get them in the conversation? That's still a better offer than the Lakers pu pu platter.
My personal opinion is NY is better off not trading the bulk of their assets for one year of Anthony Davis (one of my few favorite players in the league who I have rooted for since college) whether they win the lottery or not. Their best chance here is sign two max guys this summer, add a top 5 pick in the draft, and hope some of their youth develops.
 

jon abbey

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Woj just said definitively on ESPN that NY would not trade Zion for AD, which is going to be moot in a few minutes anyway when they end up 5th.
 

jon abbey

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3rd in a 3 player draft is a lot better than 5th, I’ll take it.
 

Big John

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I don't see this as a three player draft. IMHO there are a dozen guys who could turn out to be as good as or better than Morant or Barrett.
 

cromulence

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3rd in a 3 player draft is a lot better than 5th, I’ll take it.
Agreed, but the Pelicans curveball is scary - I was sort of banking on Davis if they ended up at 2 or 3. Now it might just be Barrett, which isn't a disaster, but still, not AD or Zion.
 

jon abbey

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Dunno, if they can really sign Durant and Kyrie, I'm excited to see the kids develop around them. Robinson, Durant, Knox, Barrett, Kyrie, and Smith off the bench, sign me up.
 

the moops

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I don't see this as a three player draft. IMHO there are a dozen guys who could turn out to be as good as or better than Morant or Barrett.
Well that is true in every draft. I think when people say a 3 player draft they are more referring to the fact that nobody has any clue of who in the 4-15 range has the best shot at being an impact player
 

lovegtm

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Dunno, if they can really sign Durant and Kyrie, I'm excited to see the kids develop around them. Robinson, Durant, Knox, Barrett, Kyrie, and Smith off the bench, sign me up.
Would KD and Kyrie also be excited to see this? Somehow I doubt it.
 

Big John

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I just think it's relatively flat after Zion, and even he's not a sure thing because his shot is suspect.
Are Barrett and Morant significantly better than Hunter, White, Washington or Nachimura? The answer is not a slam dunk.
This is a draft in which someone like Dylan Windler or Chuma Okeke (both projected as second rounders in some mocks) could turn out to be as good as anyone taken 2 through 9.
 
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