2019 Gordon Watch: Reinstated and It Feels So Good

sal16cal

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Nov 26, 2005
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I wonder how many drug test he had in the off season? As a recovering drug addict whose almost overdosed a couple times, it sure as hell seems like football is a trigger. From my experience structure and psychiatry/psychology is key.
If he cant stay clean with this organization then he cant handle playing football with his demons. I've been clean and sober for three years. If it wasnt for my wife and father being there along with a job on the line I would be dead. Three years later and I'm going to have a child in November. Of course he will be named after the superbowl MVP.


Another question if he has a painful injury during the year what the hell do they prescribe him?

FYI hes not getting fucking cut. Christ. Theres no logical argument for them tendering him and then cutting him.
 
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dcmissle

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I wonder how many drug test he had in the off season? As a recovering drug addict whose almost overdosed a couple times, it sure as hell seems like football is a trigger. From my experience structure and psychiatry/psychology is key.
If he cant stay clean with this organization then he cant handle playing football with his demons. I've been clean and sober for three years. If it wasnt for my wife and father being there along with a job on the line I would probably be dead. Three years later and I'm going to have a child in November. Of course he will be named after the superbowl MVP.


Another question if he has a painful injury during the year what the hell do they prescribe him?

FYI hes not getting fucking cut. Christ. Theres no logical argument for them tendering him and then cutting him.
Congratulations. Stay strong. Your story is harrowing and uplifting.
 

InstaFace

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This thread is full of a bunch of Max Kellermans. Inconceivable.
What a cowardly post. Point to one such, quote it, and take issue. Some blanket insulting of everyone else without giving specifics to back yourself up is BS shit-posting. Don't you want to be better than that?

For my part I'm seeing a lot of empathy for his plight and a lot of nuanced discussion, for which I'm appreciative. If that's not enough for you, either raise the bar or go somewhere else.
 

TheoShmeo

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Yep, I'm not seeing a lot of foolish posts here either. I also think, universally, that snarky posts like the one claiming they were made make SoSH a worse place and do nothing to advance the discussion.

My take

- it's just shocking that Pats fans are hopeful and forgiving when it comes to one of their own and are prone to dissing and being sarcastic when it's a player on another team....No one could reasonably think that fans of all other teams are way more sophisticated, objective and even tempered. Morons like the CHB who live to point out in mock horror the fanboy double standard miss the point that humans are humans, across the board, and are prone to inconsistent, biased behavior. Big fucking deal.

- Getting Gordon back is only positive. Even if he only gives them ONE big catch, that's one more than they would have from him if he was not back. And odds are quite high that they will get much more than that out of him.

- Is he likely to regress? Yes. Drug addicts regress. Gordon has shown no signs that he suddenly gets it. No matter what he might say in this regard, the proof is in the pudding and we just need to see if he can show that he has changed.

- The more good, explosive players on the Pats, the better.

- WR is possibly a thin position so reinforcements here are great.

- Even if Gordon blows himself up again, after say 8 games, they will have gotten 8 games of production out of him. It takes a village. Gordon's contributions last year were important to the overall picture. That he was not in Atlanta with them at the end doesn't change that.

- Seeing Brady paired with unique talents like Josh Gordon is sportsgasmic. At least 10 of their hookups last year were of the "wow, that's special" variety, and that kind of fun is part of why we watch sports.

Yeah, I'm a little bit happy they have him back. And am slightly worried about Jules' time table.
 

DrewDawg

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He's not getting cut or traded. He makes very little money against the cap (4 other WRs count more) and they tendered him because they would hope he would be back at some point, and he's back BEFORE the season starts. No one will give up anything of value for him either.
 

SMU_Sox

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Josh Gordon is the X receiver that completes the group.

I love the discussion of 10, so 4 WRs, with Gordon on the outside, Jules inside (slot), and then maybe Dorsett outside and Meyers or Harry in the slot.

If you put Gordon and Harry in the slot and Edelman and Dorsett our wife you might be able to run effectively too given that they probably go dime on you there and Gordon and Harry should be able to move DBs with ease in the run game. Harry’s ferocious blocking pissed off opponents in practice.
 

RedOctober3829

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He's not getting cut or traded. He makes very little money against the cap (4 other WRs count more) and they tendered him because they would hope he would be back at some point, and he's back BEFORE the season starts. No one will give up anything of value for him either.
Gordon has exactly $0 of guaranteed money so he can be cut or traded at any time without any dead money. So, he could get cut if they don't think he's going to help. However, the thought of that is just silly. As you pointed out, they tendered him for a reason. They think he can help if he was ever reinstated and the price is right. He's not going anywhere.
 

DrewDawg

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Gordon has exactly $0 of guaranteed money so he can be cut or traded at any time without any dead money. So, he could get cut if they don't think he's going to help.
Of course. I wasn't saying they couldn't. I was saying that he's not expensive to keep at all.
 

Marciano490

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Nov 4, 2007
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Yep, I'm not seeing a lot of foolish posts here either. I also think, universally, that snarky posts like the one claiming they were made make SoSH a worse place and do nothing to advance the discussion.

My take

- it's just shocking that Pats fans are hopeful and forgiving when it comes to one of their own and are prone to dissing and being sarcastic when it's a player on another team....No one could reasonably think that fans of all other teams are way more sophisticated, objective and even tempered. Morons like the CHB who live to point out in mock horror the fanboy double standard miss the point that humans are humans, across the board, and are prone to inconsistent, biased behavior. Big fucking deal.

- Getting Gordon back is only positive. Even if he only gives them ONE big catch, that's one more than they would have from him if he was not back. And odds are quite high that they will get much more than that out of him.

- Is he likely to regress? Yes. Drug addicts regress. Gordon has shown no signs that he suddenly gets it. No matter what he might say in this regard, the proof is in the pudding and we just need to see if he can show that he has changed.

- The more good, explosive players on the Pats, the better.

- WR is possibly a thin position so reinforcements here are great.

- Even if Gordon blows himself up again, after say 8 games, they will have gotten 8 games of production out of him. It takes a village. Gordon's contributions last year were important to the overall picture. That he was not in Atlanta with them at the end doesn't change that.

- Seeing Brady paired with unique talents like Josh Gordon is sportsgasmic. At least 10 of their hookups last year were of the "wow, that's special" variety, and that kind of fun is part of why we watch sports.

Yeah, I'm a little bit happy they have him back. And am slightly worried about Jules' time table.
Not to quibble, but I don’t think “get it” is the right way to look at. Josh doesn’t strike me as a guy who doesn’t understand the consequences of his actions. It’s more that he’s thus far been unable to stave off his addictions even though he knows what will happen next.
 

dcmissle

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Today he joined Edelman on NFI list. He can come off it any time before season begins, but he cannot practice until he’s off it. And if he’s not off it before the end of this month, we won’t see him after after week 6.

 

lexrageorge

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Today he joined Edelman on NFI list. He can come off it any time before season begins, but he cannot practice until he’s off it. And if he’s not off it before the end of this month, we won’t see him after after week 6.

As expected. He hasn't practiced with the team since mid last-season, and the team's choices were to either activate him, release him or place him on NFI.

While he cannot participate in organized team practices, he can work out on his own or with the PUP/NFI folks during the practices (Edelman was often seen working out), and join team meetings. My guess is that the training staff will set up conditioning drills for him to get him up to speed. Gives the Pats time to decide whether he'll be ready to join the team during Week 1. If not, missing the first 6 games would not be the end of the world for him or the team, especially as there may be a bit of a logjam at the WR position.

One wrinkle is that the Pats do not have to pay Gordon for the time he is on the NFI list once the regular season begins. Same goes for Edelman as well.
 

RedOctober3829

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As expected. He hasn't practiced with the team since mid last-season, and the team's choices were to either activate him, release him or place him on NFI.

While he cannot participate in organized team practices, he can work out on his own or with the PUP/NFI folks during the practices (Edelman was often seen working out), and join team meetings. My guess is that the training staff will set up conditioning drills for him to get him up to speed. Gives the Pats time to decide whether he'll be ready to join the team during Week 1. If not, missing the first 6 games would not be the end of the world for him or the team, especially as there may be a bit of a logjam at the WR position.

One wrinkle is that the Pats do not have to pay Gordon for the time he is on the NFI list once the regular season begins. Same goes for Edelman as well.
Since the NFL said he can’t play Thursday, he’ll spend the week getting up to speed then hopefully practice this time next week. They should want to get him a few game reps against the Giants.
 

DrewDawg

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What the fuck is that? Pretty low and gratuitous; that’s the kind of comment I’d expect to see from someone like Callahan.
You realize that being an addict is the same as beating your kid right? Because it doesn't seem like you do.
 

bakahump

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Heres what I find interesting.

BB is the most Risk averse guy on the planet. If your gonna be a distraction, if your gonna be hurt alot, if your gonna gripe about your contract. In short if your gonna do anything that could potentially hurt the team in short or long runs, he really has no use for you.

BUT with Gordon the team (so BB) is doing everything it can to help and will need to make some tough potentially harmful decisions to facilitate his return. (imagine a cut of Inman or Berrios and week 4 relapse for Josh that takes him off the field and leaves us down a quality WR.)

I am not saying Josh Gordon should not get a chance. Far from. I think its awesome that he is coming back and hope its part of his recovery and ongoing sobriety. I also hopes he gets a few catches and TDs as well. But I really am happy he seems to be doing better with his health.
I am also not saying that I worry about the Pats, or that they should cut ties just to keep Inman, Harris, Thomas or Patterson.

What I am saying or perhaps wondering, is does this show a side of BB that we dont often see? We have heard stories that players love him and know he has their backs. Is this a more visual and tangible example of that? Kinda a "What he has done for Josh shows what kind of man Bill is...." kinda thing?

At the end of the day BB is going to do whats best for the Pats. And maybe the Upside for Gordan is worth losing an Inman or any distraction that would be quickly dealt with. Or maybe just maybe, it shows a Guy trying to do whats best in the grander scheme of things. (Obviously with the Backing of RK)

IDK...just interesting to me.
 

joe dokes

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Heres what I find interesting.

BB is the most Risk averse guy on the planet. If your gonna be a distraction, if your gonna be hurt alot, if your gonna gripe about your contract. In short if your gonna do anything that could potentially hurt the team in short or long runs, he really has no use for you.

BUT with Gordon the team (so BB) is doing everything it can to help and will need to make some tough potentially harmful decisions to facilitate his return. (imagine a cut of Inman or Berrios and week 4 relapse for Josh that takes him off the field and leaves us down a quality WR.)

I am not saying Josh Gordon should not get a chance. Far from. I think its awesome that he is coming back and hope its part of his recovery and ongoing sobriety. I also hopes he gets a few catches and TDs as well. But I really am happy he seems to be doing better with his health.
I am also not saying that I worry about the Pats, or that they should cut ties just to keep Inman, Harris, Thomas or Patterson.

What I am saying or perhaps wondering, is does this show a side of BB that we dont often see? We have heard stories that players love him and know he has their backs. Is this a more visual and tangible example of that? Kinda a "What he has done for Josh shows what kind of man Bill is...." kinda thing?

At the end of the day BB is going to do whats best for the Pats. And maybe the Upside for Gordan is worth losing an Inman or any distraction that would be quickly dealt with. Or maybe just maybe, it shows a Guy trying to do whats best in the grander scheme of things. (Obviously with the Backing of RK)

IDK...just interesting to me.

I think what it shows is that despite everything we think we know (about BB, about how he runs the team, about what he "thinks"), we really dont know much at all.
 
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bakahump

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I think what it shows is that despite everything we think we know (about BB, about how he runs the team, about what he "thinks"), we realy dont know much at all.
Absolutely @joe dokes

Its weird to spend 20 years watching a guy, feel like you know him, but he is still an absolute riddle.
 

InstaFace

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Sep 27, 2016
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I like and respect that nobody can be bothered to give CHB's trolling more than a passing thought, if that. Especially given how basically everyone here turned, quickly and viciously, on Aaron Hernandez as soon as it was revealed what he'd done.

Heres what I find interesting.

BB is the most Risk averse guy on the planet. If your gonna be a distraction, if your gonna be hurt alot, if your gonna gripe about your contract. In short if your gonna do anything that could potentially hurt the team in short or long runs, he really has no use for you.

BUT with Gordon the team (so BB) is doing everything it can to help and will need to make some tough potentially harmful decisions to facilitate his return. (imagine a cut of Inman or Berrios and week 4 relapse for Josh that takes him off the field and leaves us down a quality WR.)

I am not saying Josh Gordon should not get a chance. Far from. I think its awesome that he is coming back and hope its part of his recovery and ongoing sobriety. I also hopes he gets a few catches and TDs as well. But I really am happy he seems to be doing better with his health.
I am also not saying that I worry about the Pats, or that they should cut ties just to keep Inman, Harris, Thomas or Patterson.

What I am saying or perhaps wondering, is does this show a side of BB that we dont often see? We have heard stories that players love him and know he has their backs. Is this a more visual and tangible example of that? Kinda a "What he has done for Josh shows what kind of man Bill is...." kinda thing?

At the end of the day BB is going to do whats best for the Pats. And maybe the Upside for Gordan is worth losing an Inman or any distraction that would be quickly dealt with. Or maybe just maybe, it shows a Guy trying to do whats best in the grander scheme of things. (Obviously with the Backing of RK)

IDK...just interesting to me.
I actually think this is perfectly in-character for BB, if you give it some thought.

- Gordon is not whining about his contract, his playing time, is not freelancing, or doing anything other than working really hard. He's not talking to the media and making pronouncements, he's not being a distraction in any overt way. It's clear that mentally and consciously, he's bought into BB's regimen
- Gordon also has personal problems. BB has consistently tried to help his players with personal problems, whether that's health of a family member or any other challenges. So, stuff you can't necessarily control, you can't just "decide" about and that's the end of it. I'm sure if Gordon could, he'd wish his addictions away. BB has sympathy for that, because you're still doing everything you can to help the team.
- There are lots of other examples of BB "having his players' backs" in a lot of areas, and I think you're right that this is an example of it. I think he'd do the same regardless of talent, regardless of whether Gordon is the #1/#2 WR or if he's a fringe roster player. There are some lines you don't cross with BB, but if you do what he asks - which only includes things fully within your power - then you're His Guy and he's going to put his powers at your disposal.

Now, if the medical people at the Patriots think he should do X and Gordon thinks it'd be better for him to do Y, and that's not easily resolved, I can see that status being threatened. But so long as he's taking orders and following advice, I see his problems as being something visited upon him, rather than sins of commission.
 
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Super Nomario

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BB is the most Risk averse guy on the planet. If your gonna be a distraction, if your gonna be hurt alot, if your gonna gripe about your contract. In short if your gonna do anything that could potentially hurt the team in short or long runs, he really has no use for you.
He's taken chances on guys before, certainly: Dillon, Moss, Hernandez, Gronk, Cannon, Albert Haynesworth, Chad Johnson/Ochocinco, Alfonso Dennard, Dominique Easley, all risks of varying kinds in varying degrees. He is pretty quick to move on from guys when he evaluates that the risk isn't going to be worth the reward.
 

sonofgodcf

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Heres what I find interesting.

BB is the most Risk averse guy on the planet. If your gonna be a distraction, if your gonna be hurt alot, if your gonna gripe about your contract. In short if your gonna do anything that could potentially hurt the team in short or long runs, he really has no use for you.

BUT with Gordon the team (so BB) is doing everything it can to help and will need to make some tough potentially harmful decisions to facilitate his return. (imagine a cut of Inman or Berrios and week 4 relapse for Josh that takes him off the field and leaves us down a quality WR.)

I am not saying Josh Gordon should not get a chance. Far from. I think its awesome that he is coming back and hope its part of his recovery and ongoing sobriety. I also hopes he gets a few catches and TDs as well. But I really am happy he seems to be doing better with his health.
I am also not saying that I worry about the Pats, or that they should cut ties just to keep Inman, Harris, Thomas or Patterson.

What I am saying or perhaps wondering, is does this show a side of BB that we dont often see? We have heard stories that players love him and know he has their backs. Is this a more visual and tangible example of that? Kinda a "What he has done for Josh shows what kind of man Bill is...." kinda thing?

At the end of the day BB is going to do whats best for the Pats. And maybe the Upside for Gordan is worth losing an Inman or any distraction that would be quickly dealt with. Or maybe just maybe, it shows a Guy trying to do whats best in the grander scheme of things. (Obviously with the Backing of RK)

IDK...just interesting to me.
Isn't it as simple as Belichick recognizing that Gordon has amazing potential as a football player, and he (Belichick) doesn't want to see it go to waste? It's not like he hasn't done similar before - Hernandez (though who knows what he knew at the time) and Moss were both red flags. Heck, the player he lavishes the most praise on to this day is Lawrence Taylor. I think there's a pretty obvious record on where Belichick stands when it comes to talent - he's willing to forgive a lot of things if you produce on the field.

And beaten to it by @Super Nomario, but in no way is Belichick "the most risk adverse guy on the planet" - part of what makes him so great is his willingness to go against conventional wisdom, whether in roster construction or play calling.
 

dcmissle

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I think what it shows is that despite everything we think we know (about BB, about how he runs the team, about what he "thinks"), we really dont know much at all.
There is a lot about this specific situation we don’t know. What, specifically, triggered Gordon backing away from the table and the subsequent suspension last Dec? What has been done to address it. Damn if I know.
 

joe dokes

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There is a lot about this specific situation we don’t know. What, specifically, triggered Gordon backing away from the table and the subsequent suspension last Dec? What has been done to address it. Damn if I know.
Right. The only thing I'm confident about is that when BB says "doing what's best for the team," he means it. The other side of the equation from "= best" is the black box, at least to me. We can try to reverse engineer it, and in that vein, I think the Lawrence Taylor reference upthread sounds logical. That doesn't mean he'd sign (or be allowed to sign) every suspendee available.
 

Ralphwiggum

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Would people really be flipping their shit if Gordon wasn't a Patriot? I recall a lot of sympathy towards the guy while he was on the Browns. He's an addict, I would hope that most people would want him to overcome his demons and make the most of his talent. It isn't remotely the same as someone suspended for domestic violence issues, or even PEDs.
 

Cotillion

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I like and respect that nobody can be bothered to give CHB's trolling more than a passing thought, if that. Especially given how basically everyone here turned, quickly and viciously, on Aaron Hernandez as soon as it was revealed what he'd done.



I actually think this is perfectly in-character for BB, if you give it some thought.

- Gordon is not whining about his contract, his playing time, is not freelancing, or doing anything other than working really hard. He's not talking to the media and making pronouncements, he's not being a distraction in any overt way. It's clear that mentally and consciously, he's bought into BB's regimen
- Gordon also has personal problems. BB has consistently tried to help his players with personal problems, whether that's health of a family member or any other challenges. So, stuff you can't necessarily control, you can't just "decide" about and that's the end of it. I'm sure if Gordon could, he'd wish his addictions away. BB has sympathy for that, because you're still doing everything you can to help the team.
- There are lots of other examples of BB "having his players' backs" in a lot of areas, and I think you're right that this is an example of it. I think he'd do the same regardless of talent, regardless of whether Gordon is the #1/#2 WR or if he's a fringe roster player. There are some lines you don't cross with BB, but if you do what he asks - which only includes things fully within your power - then you're His Guy and he's going to put his powers at your disposal.

Now, if the medical people at the Patriots think he should do X and Gordon thinks it'd be better for him to do Y, and that's not easily resolved, I can see that status being threatened. But so long as he's taking orders and following advice, I see his problems as being something visited upon him, rather than sins of commission.
I think this is the right take.

There is nothing out of character or new to the way Belichick is handling Gordon.

As noted, the baseline for Belichick is are you doing everything in your control to make a contribution to the team? Yes, then I've got your back.
 

dcmissle

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Would people really be flipping their shit if Gordon wasn't a Patriot? I recall a lot of sympathy towards the guy while he was on the Browns. He's an addict, I would hope that most people would want him to overcome his demons and make the most of his talent. It isn't remotely the same as someone suspended for domestic violence issues, or even PEDs.
No. Shaughnessy is a malevolent idiot.

We hated Josh so much after his early mid-step with the Browns that some folks advocated sending a first-round pick for him. That was before the depth of his problem became apparent.
 

Shelterdog

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There is a lot about this specific situation we don’t know. What, specifically, triggered Gordon backing away from the table and the subsequent suspension last Dec? What has been done to address it. Damn if I know.
It's hard to tell but BB's willingness to bring him back (and the team's apparent and vocal support of Gordon) sure do make it seem that he's a nice guy and a good team player but like many addicts he hit a rough spot on his path to recovery
 

Super Nomario

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Right. The only thing I'm confident about is that when BB says "doing what's best for the team," he means it. The other side of the equation from "= best" is the black box, at least to me. We can try to reverse engineer it, and in that vein, I think the Lawrence Taylor reference upthread sounds logical. That doesn't mean he'd sign (or be allowed to sign) every suspendee available.
Belichick said not only what is best for the team, but also what is best for Josh (in fact, he listed Gordon before the team). I think when you trade for a player with the demons Gordon has, you acquire an obligation to do right by him. That includes, I think, trading or releasing Gordon if for whatever reason(s) he feels like he's more prone to a relapse in New England than elsewhere. (From what I can tell, he seemed to really like playing for the Patriots, but who knows)
 

dcmissle

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Belichick said not only what is best for the team, but also what is best for Josh (in fact, he listed Gordon before the team). I think when you trade for a player with the demons Gordon has, you acquire an obligation to do right by him. That includes, I think, trading or releasing Gordon if for whatever reason(s) he feels like he's more prone to a relapse in New England than elsewhere. (From what I can tell, he seemed to really like playing for the Patriots, but who knows)
Agree emphatically.

Also agree with Shelter that they would not be messing with any of this unless he’s a first rate teammate and quality person (the first rate talent part goes without saying and is also essential).

For bunch of reasons, including the fact that he’s already let them down — in December, no less — it’s a compelling story.
 

Reverend

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It's hard to tell but BB's willingness to bring him back (and the team's apparent and vocal support of Gordon) sure do make it seem that he's a nice guy and a good team player but like many addicts he hit a rough spot on his path to recovery
Stuff like how this is being handled always reminds me that Belichick grew up at the naval academy.
 

nighthob

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You realize that being an addict is the same as beating your kid right? Because it doesn't seem like you do.
I think we can all agree with CHB that toking the wacky tabacky is infinitely worse than domestic violence. Tyreek Hill is simply misunderstood.
 

lars10

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Josh Gordon is the X receiver that completes the group.

I love the discussion of 10, so 4 WRs, with Gordon on the outside, Jules inside (slot), and then maybe Dorsett outside and Meyers or Harry in the slot.

If you put Gordon and Harry in the slot and Edelman and Dorsett our wife you might be able to run effectively too given that they probably go dime on you there and Gordon and Harry should be able to move DBs with ease in the run game. Harry’s ferocious blocking pissed off opponents in practice.
I’m not sure I’m ready to marry :) this receiving core yet but I like how it’s setting up.
 

BusRaker

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I would guess that Josh (Gordon) is in pretty good physical shape being sober that last few months. He'll just need to pick up on Josh (McDaniel's) changes in the offense sans #87. We'll see how he looks in practice but the fact that Brady knows how he moves and thinks already would put him above the newbies
 

mulluysavage

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He's taken chances on guys before, certainly: Dillon, Moss, Hernandez, Gronk, Cannon, Albert Haynesworth, Chad Johnson/Ochocinco, Alfonso Dennard, Dominique Easley, all risks of varying kinds in varying degrees. He is pretty quick to move on from guys when he evaluates that the risk isn't going to be worth the reward.
Isn't it as simple as Belichick recognizing that Gordon has amazing potential as a football player, and he (Belichick) doesn't want to see it go to waste? It's not like he hasn't done similar before - Hernandez (though who knows what he knew at the time) and Moss were both red flags. Heck, the player he lavishes the most praise on to this day is Lawrence Taylor. I think there's a pretty obvious record on where Belichick stands when it comes to talent - he's willing to forgive a lot of things if you produce on the field.

And beaten to it by @Super Nomario, but in no way is Belichick "the most risk adverse guy on the planet" - part of what makes him so great is his willingness to go against conventional wisdom, whether in roster construction or play calling.
This explains it best to me. BB is like a shrewd poker player- he accepts that he has incomplete information, and he'll make a move without flinching if he senses he has 51% odds. Look at @SuperNomario's list and you'll see big Gambles, big wins, big losses. This fits in with 4th and 2, with not taking a time out in the waning moments of XLIX.

My guess is that his calculation is something like:

Josh Gordon production * odds he will relapse after X games and getting a replacement-level player at that time > keeping Meyers or Dorsett.