oh thank you, I thought it was still considered a win because the spot was wrong.
2019 Game Goat Thread: Wk. 14 vs Chiefs
- Thread starter SeoulSoxFan
- Start date
The posters that say the fans aren't allowed to boo a shitty first half performance.
None of that shit means we don't understand how lucky we are, but they played like ass. Booing is perfectly fine. Then the fan were loud in second half.
Do you "no booing" folks think punishing your kid means you don't love them? GTFOH.
None of that shit means we don't understand how lucky we are, but they played like ass. Booing is perfectly fine. Then the fan were loud in second half.
Do you "no booing" folks think punishing your kid means you don't love them? GTFOH.
That's probably correct, but it's done. You're not challenging, technically, whether it's a first down or not. You're challenging the SPOT. And if it so happens that you win that challenge and they re-spot it, and it happens to change whether it's a first down or not, so be it.
Not much positive to take from this. Scoring when the other team is playing soft (similar to how the Pats give up points when they're up big near the end of the game sometimes) isn't that big of a victory.
They need to play for 4 quarters.
They need to play for 4 quarters.
The Chiefs were not in the prevent defense this game. They kept blitzing. They didn't change.
I disagree; they dinked and dunked a lot; Edelman and White were the only receivers with more than two catches. And the tricky shit is the only stuff that's working; their two longest plays today were on trick plays. If anything they need to run like five more trick plays next week (well, maybe not next week, but against Buffalo I guess).
Yeah this wasn’t like last week, the game wasn’t over and the Chiefs knew it wasn’t over.
The yards last week. Were mostly meaningless.
I can live with bad judgement calls from refs but these were process issues. If they aren't 100% certain then they have been instructed to let the play continue on a scoring or change of possession to go to automatic review. That this officiating crew blew 2 clear process calls really harms the integrity of the game. Boger's crew should be sitting a week and be automatically excluded from post-season play.
Pretty sure the crew that blew the play dead and cost NO a defensive TD that cost them a game early in the season was reprimanded.
Pretty sure the crew that blew the play dead and cost NO a defensive TD that cost them a game early in the season was reprimanded.
The Refs. Legitimately cost the Patriots a chance at winning this game.
The O-Line. Just soft and giving Brady no time.
Wide Receivers who don’t know how to run hot-read routes when teams blitz (Harry, Dorsett, Meyers)
Sony Michel. Just soft running as others have said. You almost have to go with 28 back there and make teams guess.
All that said — this team is broken and under-talented on offense and fought like hell. I hope this is an “aha” game similar to week 14. Make teams defend the trickery, do what you have to do to score, this defense will give you a chance.
We’re on to Cincinnati . . . .
The O-Line. Just soft and giving Brady no time.
Wide Receivers who don’t know how to run hot-read routes when teams blitz (Harry, Dorsett, Meyers)
Sony Michel. Just soft running as others have said. You almost have to go with 28 back there and make teams guess.
All that said — this team is broken and under-talented on offense and fought like hell. I hope this is an “aha” game similar to week 14. Make teams defend the trickery, do what you have to do to score, this defense will give you a chance.
We’re on to Cincinnati . . . .
It will look pretty bad. The Pats rushed 22 times for 94 yards against KC today, but that includes Brady's long and very unexpected run. So it wasn't very effective, against a pretty awful run defense. I suspect they'll essentially get shut out against Buffalo; maybe they can muster 13 points on offense. They'll need a lot of help from the defense and special teams, which they should be able to get because Buffalo's own offense isn't very good.
You play enough close games and the refs will hurt you. We've benefited from our fair share over the last 20 years. The fumble play was similar to the call that cost the Jaguars a trip to the super bowl.
The Patriots have a better chance to win this game if Newhouse makes an easy block (4 point domino effect), and Brady doesn't give the Chiefs a short field with that interception.
I'm more concerned with poor special teams and blocking than the refs.
The Patriots have a better chance to win this game if Newhouse makes an easy block (4 point domino effect), and Brady doesn't give the Chiefs a short field with that interception.
I'm more concerned with poor special teams and blocking than the refs.
Sometimes you just have to remember that a football stadium is full of a ton of people drinking beer for hours. Oh, and they just finished watching their team suck balls for 3 straight halves.
It's okay to boo. If a player doesn't want the lows then they don't get the highs either.
Brady's interception gave KC the ball at the NE 35 yard line. The defense then gave up a TD. Mahomes threw an interception and the Pats got the ball at the KC 40 (difference of 5 yards) and went 3 plays for -1 yards. That Brady interception was not that different from the Mahomes interception. The difference is one defense held and one didn't.
The explanation by Bogar is so unbelievably bad. Making me more angry. Utterly incompetent officiating.
View: https://twitter.com/MarkDanielsPJ/status/1203852923240882180
Does this angle look like the referee on the sideline was blocked??? Ridiculous.
View: https://twitter.com/scottzolak/status/1203851710860595207
View: https://twitter.com/MarkDanielsPJ/status/1203852923240882180
Does this angle look like the referee on the sideline was blocked??? Ridiculous.
View: https://twitter.com/scottzolak/status/1203851710860595207
If he was blocked, how do you place it on a rando yard line? Just go and review it and decide from there.
Yup. The D was awful in the first half. They really stepped up after halftime though.
Sony and Burkhead combined for 23 yards on 12 carries against one of the worst run defenses in football. White, Brady, Bolden, and Edelman combined for 71 yards on their 10 carries. It's not all his fault, but every snap Sony is in the game is a missed opportunity right now.
I never blame the refs but this is an exception. Just a horrendously officiated game by a crew that looked like they would have been lost reffing a high school game.
With that out of the way, the offense is a complete joke right now outside of Edelman. Meyers, Sanu, Dorsett and Harry combined for three catches. Michel sucks, the line can’t run block and they couldn’t figure out a way to counter the Chiefs zero blitzes. Bottom line this team isn’t winning playoff games unless the offense can figure something out quickly.
With that out of the way, the offense is a complete joke right now outside of Edelman. Meyers, Sanu, Dorsett and Harry combined for three catches. Michel sucks, the line can’t run block and they couldn’t figure out a way to counter the Chiefs zero blitzes. Bottom line this team isn’t winning playoff games unless the offense can figure something out quickly.
so the offense is at a point where the defense lapsing for even a quarter (it was really all the 2nd quarter) is fatal.
an NFL defense can only do so much against a QB like Mahomes.
an NFL defense can only do so much against a QB like Mahomes.
Yeah, the defense was awesome in the 2nd half. Really kept the game close and allowed the Pats an opportunity to get back into it.
I was at the game and this is spot on. that was a pathetic excuse for a possession and James White got lit up on a meaningless play where they should have just kneeled if they didn’t feel like they could score.
Yeah it looks to me that he couldn’t see where his foot is so I have no problem with that ref deferring to the other ref. I do have a big problem with that ref making a call that he obviously wasn’t sure of instead of defaulting to a TD knowing it would be fixed if incorrect.
Holy crap, Boger has been brutal in Patriots games for years. He was the referee for the last Patriots loss at home to Carolina in 2017. Also the ref in NY for the famous illegal pushing that gave the Jets a win in 2013. Get this guy out of the league.
BOSTON (CBS) — Aside from the busted coverages, what stood out in a big way after Sunday’s Patriots loss at home to the Panthers was the discrepancy in penalties.
The Patriots were flagged seven times for 55 yards by Jerome Boger’s crew, while the Panthers were penalized just once for 33 yards. (The Panthers were called for a hold on Dont’a Hightower’s sack, but it was declined.)
The fact that some of these penalties were ticky-tack calls, and that two of them came in critical spots on Carolina’s game-winning drive, ensured that the officiating would be a big part of this story. (Mike Pereira also said the holding penalty on Patrick Chung, which gave Carolina five free yards to get closer on the game-winning field goal, was an incorrect application of the rules.)
And, as it turns out, that’s a common theme when Boger officiates Patriots games.
Since 2012, Boger has refereed six Patriots games. In those six games, the Patriots have been called for 46 penalties, totaling 404 yards. Their opponents have been called for 28 penalties for 243 yards.
That includes the famed “On To Cincinnati” game in 2014, which is remembered fondly around these parts as the breakout game for a championship team. What’s been forgotten is that in that game, the Patriots were penalized 12 times for 114 yards. The Bengals were called for four penalties, totaling 37 yards.
Here’s a look at every Patriots game Boger has officiated since he became a referee in 2006:
2007 at Bengals:
Patriots: 3-20
Bengals: 8-65
2007 vs. Jets:
Patriots: 6-48
Jets: 6-42
2009 vs. Buccaneers (London):
Patriots: 10-66
Buccaneers: 6-55
2011 vs. Jets:
Patriots: 6-50
Jets: 8-89
2011 at Eagles:
Patriots: 3-20
Eagles: 10-60
2012 vs. Dolphins:
Patriots: 6-48
Dolphins: 3-23
2013 at Jets****:
Patriots: 7-100
Jets: 9-45
2013 vs. Browns:
Patriots: 6-41
Browns: 7-75
2014 vs. Bengals:
Patriots: 12-114
Bengals: 4-37
2016 vs. Rams:
Patriots: 8-46
Rams: 4-30
2017 vs. Panthers:
Patriots: 7-55
Panthers: 1-33
***This was the game where the Patriots were penalized for “illegal pushing” on a field-goal block attempt in overtime. The penalty wiped out a missed Nick Folk kick and essentially gave the Jets a victory.
Of course, raw numbers don’t tell a comprehensive story. There certainly must have been times when the Patriots simply committed more penalties than the opponent. And some penalties — false start, offside, delay of game — require no judgment whatsoever from the officials on the field. Others — late hit, facemask, holding, intentional grounding — can be obvious and require very little judgment.
Yet on Sunday, a stray finger on a facemask was enough for Carolina to be given a fresh set of downs not once but twice, and the act of shedding a block on a running play resulted in another automatic first down on the final drive in a tie game, and at least one but possibly two phantom offensive pass interference penalties were called on the Patriots. And in a game like Sunday, when the Patriots’ defense made more mistakes than imaginable, it’d be wrong to identify officiating as the sole reason — or even a significant reason — for the loss.
Taken in conjunction with the history of Boger’s crew when working Patriots games, it’s at least worth wondering why such a stark contrast exists when Boger’s crew visits Foxboro.
https://boston.cbslocal.com/2017/10/02/nfl-referee-jerome-boger-penalties-patriots/
BOSTON (CBS) — Aside from the busted coverages, what stood out in a big way after Sunday’s Patriots loss at home to the Panthers was the discrepancy in penalties.
The Patriots were flagged seven times for 55 yards by Jerome Boger’s crew, while the Panthers were penalized just once for 33 yards. (The Panthers were called for a hold on Dont’a Hightower’s sack, but it was declined.)
The fact that some of these penalties were ticky-tack calls, and that two of them came in critical spots on Carolina’s game-winning drive, ensured that the officiating would be a big part of this story. (Mike Pereira also said the holding penalty on Patrick Chung, which gave Carolina five free yards to get closer on the game-winning field goal, was an incorrect application of the rules.)
And, as it turns out, that’s a common theme when Boger officiates Patriots games.
Since 2012, Boger has refereed six Patriots games. In those six games, the Patriots have been called for 46 penalties, totaling 404 yards. Their opponents have been called for 28 penalties for 243 yards.
That includes the famed “On To Cincinnati” game in 2014, which is remembered fondly around these parts as the breakout game for a championship team. What’s been forgotten is that in that game, the Patriots were penalized 12 times for 114 yards. The Bengals were called for four penalties, totaling 37 yards.
Here’s a look at every Patriots game Boger has officiated since he became a referee in 2006:
2007 at Bengals:
Patriots: 3-20
Bengals: 8-65
2007 vs. Jets:
Patriots: 6-48
Jets: 6-42
2009 vs. Buccaneers (London):
Patriots: 10-66
Buccaneers: 6-55
2011 vs. Jets:
Patriots: 6-50
Jets: 8-89
2011 at Eagles:
Patriots: 3-20
Eagles: 10-60
2012 vs. Dolphins:
Patriots: 6-48
Dolphins: 3-23
2013 at Jets****:
Patriots: 7-100
Jets: 9-45
2013 vs. Browns:
Patriots: 6-41
Browns: 7-75
2014 vs. Bengals:
Patriots: 12-114
Bengals: 4-37
2016 vs. Rams:
Patriots: 8-46
Rams: 4-30
2017 vs. Panthers:
Patriots: 7-55
Panthers: 1-33
***This was the game where the Patriots were penalized for “illegal pushing” on a field-goal block attempt in overtime. The penalty wiped out a missed Nick Folk kick and essentially gave the Jets a victory.
Of course, raw numbers don’t tell a comprehensive story. There certainly must have been times when the Patriots simply committed more penalties than the opponent. And some penalties — false start, offside, delay of game — require no judgment whatsoever from the officials on the field. Others — late hit, facemask, holding, intentional grounding — can be obvious and require very little judgment.
Yet on Sunday, a stray finger on a facemask was enough for Carolina to be given a fresh set of downs not once but twice, and the act of shedding a block on a running play resulted in another automatic first down on the final drive in a tie game, and at least one but possibly two phantom offensive pass interference penalties were called on the Patriots. And in a game like Sunday, when the Patriots’ defense made more mistakes than imaginable, it’d be wrong to identify officiating as the sole reason — or even a significant reason — for the loss.
Taken in conjunction with the history of Boger’s crew when working Patriots games, it’s at least worth wondering why such a stark contrast exists when Boger’s crew visits Foxboro.
https://boston.cbslocal.com/2017/10/02/nfl-referee-jerome-boger-penalties-patriots/
If it hasn't been said before, this is the first regular season loss that Edelman has at home to an AFC foe with Tom Brady as his QB.
Based on that photo, I can readily believe that sideline official was blocked from seeing the foot by the defender's shoulder and helmet.
Sure, but the official in the end zone was the one running into the play to rule touchdown, but then checked with the other official to make sure he didn't see Harry step out of bounds. If the official in the end zone saw a touchdown, and the official at the 10 was blocked, they should have ruled a touchdown.
Boger's assertion that the end zone official had Harry out at the 3 is a blatant lie if you watch the tape.
The other official “had that he stepped out at the three” is a nice way of saying he completely guessed. Because he definitely did not see him step out at the three.
Edit - or, yeah, Boger was wrong. Again.
Edit - or, yeah, Boger was wrong. Again.
The refs were beyond abysmal. They blew call after call, both ways. Unfortunately most of the ones they blew in the second half egregiously cost the Pats. I’d say half that crew should be fired but it’s the NFL, so it’s more likely that this crew will work the Super Bowl.
Second place is the OL. What a tire fire. I hope they’re all ashamed of that game, because they damn well should be. Putrid.
Second place is the OL. What a tire fire. I hope they’re all ashamed of that game, because they damn well should be. Putrid.
Refs are supposed to call what they see. If you did not see the runner step out you can't rule him out.
Thanks for posting those links. If Boger had done this to the Cowboys the outrage would get him fired. But no one feels bad for the Pats so who knows. Very frustrating to see obvious calls that took points off the board go unchanged.
Sure, Boger sucks, but someone has a sense of humor about it: https://www.facebook.com/pages/category/Community/Greatest-Referee-in-the-NFL-Jerome-Boger-128357647228958/
I thought that was the worst the O-line has played since the Gugs season. Just zero time for Brady to even look downfield.
In the first half, I was livid at the Pats. Now, I’m livid at the refs. Just an absolute screw job. It’s nearly impossible to beat a team like KC with that many crucial plays going against you and they almost did it. If that were playoff game, I would be stewing for days. Fortunately for Pats, they still control their destiny for the 2 seed so just win out and see what happens come January.
As for the play on the field:
1) OL sucks. We all know the center situation but that’s far from the only problem. There is no Dante miracle work this year. This unit just flat out blows and it’s the #1 problem on the team.
2) Running game. Michel can’t do anything. Burkhead can’t do anything. Time to give Harris a look? Probably not but, man, they can’t ever get anything going here. Surely related to #1 but you rarely see the Pats RBs make guys miss.
3) Sanu. Completely useless out there and I couldn’t be more disappointed in him given the price paid. I know the ankle isn’t 100% but he looked like he was running ok out there. This team desperately needed consisted 5/50 type games from him with the occasional blow up and they just aren’t getting it. I admit to being completely wrong about him. I thought he’d be a perfect fit but, alas, they clearly needed Sanders’ skill set more.
4) Harry. I don’t care if he knows like 3 plays. He needs to be out there far more. One of the few guys on the team who actually possesses the physical ability to make a big play.
5) DL. 3 sacks last 3 games. Need more out of this group.
As for the play on the field:
1) OL sucks. We all know the center situation but that’s far from the only problem. There is no Dante miracle work this year. This unit just flat out blows and it’s the #1 problem on the team.
2) Running game. Michel can’t do anything. Burkhead can’t do anything. Time to give Harris a look? Probably not but, man, they can’t ever get anything going here. Surely related to #1 but you rarely see the Pats RBs make guys miss.
3) Sanu. Completely useless out there and I couldn’t be more disappointed in him given the price paid. I know the ankle isn’t 100% but he looked like he was running ok out there. This team desperately needed consisted 5/50 type games from him with the occasional blow up and they just aren’t getting it. I admit to being completely wrong about him. I thought he’d be a perfect fit but, alas, they clearly needed Sanders’ skill set more.
4) Harry. I don’t care if he knows like 3 plays. He needs to be out there far more. One of the few guys on the team who actually possesses the physical ability to make a big play.
5) DL. 3 sacks last 3 games. Need more out of this group.
Being at the game, bottom line is fans are paying $200/ticket for the experience, can we actually live in the moment?! After booing the team due to the play calling going into half, "we" were then chanting Brady's name after getting the 4th and 6 scramble.
To request fans with a pulse to go into Red Sox in Fort Myers mode due to past history is just unrealistic. No matter how much I can agree with you in the abstract.
That's not what they were booing.
Your holier-than-thou act is tired; feel free to stay away from the forum if you don't enjoy Patriots fans.
This times a thousand.
Refs are going to miss calls. The players are fast and sometimes they don’t have a good sight line.
But the league changed the rules because the refs have been so bad. They are supposed to call plays so that they can rely on replay. On the two most critical plays of the game, not only did the refs make the wrong call, but they abandoned the process they are supposed to follow. That’s inexcusable.
By the comments made my Boger and the fact that the ref behind the play was blocked, it appears they were just taking an “educated” guess he stepped out of bounds, which makes it even more frustrating they didn’t call it a TD so it just would have went to an automatic replay and the correct call would have ultimately been made. Pretty sure the refs are trained to call it a TD when they are unsure for that very reason.