IMO its 90% line and 10% everything else. i think he's had worse weapons units but a good enough line to give them time to find an open spot.
They added Brown because he's better than what they had. He's like the best receiver in the game and they had cap space and a free and easy way to add him. Why wouldn't they look to get better?Why do you think they added Antonio Brown then Sanu after that? After Edelman, there isn't another WR that scares you. Dorsett is a nice 3rd or 4th option, but if he's the #2 then there's an issue. It's clear that Meyers hasn't entered the Circle of Trust yet. Harry just got back. The TE position has been a black hole so far due to injury and just plain not even implementing them into the game plan because they're not very good. That being said, they have enough to work with if the offensive line can play better.
Yes, they had fewer weapons earlier. But Dorsett isn't the #2 now. He's the #3 or #4. That's the point. He does not, at this moment, have inadequate weapons.Why do you think they added Antonio Brown then Sanu after that? After Edelman, there isn't another WR that scares you. Dorsett is a nice 3rd or 4th option, but if he's the #2 then there's an issue.
You are certainly entitled to this opinion. If Meyers and Harry improve enough to contribute at a higher level consistently then the depth looks better. Not having a TE threat hurts especially in the red zone. Sanu had no impact on the game pre-injury. 2 catches for 4 yards can’t happen.Yes, they had fewer weapons earlier. But Dorsett isn't the #2 now. He's the #3 or #4. That's the point. He does not, at this moment, have inadequate weapons.
It feels really strange as a modern Patriots fan to see our offense as a weakness and our defense carrying games. But that's a good problem to have, I suppose. Because we still have Brady, a healing Edelman, a returning Wynn,, and a Belichick-led team which usually figures this shit out over time.After a brutal start, defense was immense. Maybe the best overall effort of the year.
Bailey- what a weapon, great job all day pinning them in.
Offense is just brutal right now, but winning a rock fight like this is probably a good thing in the long run.
So next week I guess we get a look at the full version of the offense they’re going with down stretch ( assuming Dorsett and Sanu are both OK), with Wynn eligible and presumably playing. Hopefully he has as big of an impact as we think , and they can settle in and start building confidence and better production heading into December and beyond.It feels really strange as a modern Patriots fan to see our offense as a weakness and our defense carrying games. But that's a good problem to have, I suppose. Because we still have Brady, a healing Edelman, a returning Wynn,, and a Belichick-led team which usually figures this shit out over time.
LOL wut?Honorable mention to Jules. Dropped a few today but still led the team in receptions. Plus the TD pass (move over Lamar Jackson for perfect QB rating).
For a struggling offense, these made a difference. And given the way he's played through injury, it's been basically another great year for him and hopefully, an All-pro one finally
Dropping the TD pass was a tough one to get over, but I still love the guy.Honorable mention to Jules. Dropped a few today but still led the team in receptions. Plus the TD pass (move over Lamar Jackson for perfect QB rating).
For a struggling offense, these made a difference. And given the way he's played through injury, it's been basically another great year for him and hopefully, an All-pro one finally
It’s not just Wynn though. Karras is average at best, Mason is clearly banged up and not playing well(not because of no Andrews) and Cannon isn’t playing at the same level he did last year. Thuney is the only guy healthy and playing well. Wynn will help for sure but if the right side doesn’t get going there will still be issues.All this “Brady looked like a 42 year-old” stuff is stupid. The problems with the line lead to everything else. We talk about the 2014 KC game but does anyone actually remember the three games that preceded it? Brady’s timing was a mess. His footwork was bad, he missed guys left and right and his decision making was really poor. It was almost entirely because his OL play under Googs was a tire fire. Once they cleaned that up, it was off to the races. And with Wynn coming back they have a chance to clean things up.
That’s the good news. The bad news is that David Andrews isn’t coming back. And I think he’s the more important player because he is the guy who communicates everything. Mason has been a shell of himself this year without Andrews next to him. So I think the impact won’t be transformative just better. I also think Lacosse being back will be bigger than people think.
Brady is frustrated because he can’t do what he normally does. With Wynn back he should be able to do more of it.
Cowboys have the record with 20 consecutive winning seasons, Pats could tie next season.I'd love to see the historic rather than active numbers on this.
On pace for 1200 yards and 7 td. Third in receptions on pace for 112 it’s not out of the question.LOL wut?
well when David Andrews gets felled by blood colts and the likes of Mason/Cannon aren't playing as well, unfortunately that's where you're at.I’ll say it again but man everyone is hanging a lot on a 2nd year player who has barely played in the NFL.
This maybe the first "LOL wut?" I've ever read from SN, so there's that.LOL wut?
No Gronk, Develin, Andrews, Trent Brown, Dwayne Allen. Or Wynn. It's amazing there's been any offense at all.well when David Andrews gets felled by blood colts and the likes of Mason/Cannon aren't playing as well, unfortunately that's where you're at.
I think he was also quite beaten up. He looked like he had 2 black eyes.Anyone else catch a very dejected vibe from Brady in that postgame PC? Rare to see him that somber following a win. I think this offense's real inability to come together is wearing on him.
He's 17th in receiving yards right now. All Pro means top 3 WR. It is out of the question.On pace for 1200 yards and 7 td. Third in receptions on pace for 112 it’s not out of the question.
Yeah, that's what an All-Pro season looks like.Unrelated, but looking at stats for this post further illustrated how incredible Michael Thomas is. He’s on pace for 150 catches for 1826 yards and 8 tds. Already at 94 for 1141 and 5 which is a great season and he’s played 10 games. Absurd.
The OL got the headlines in 2014 and obviously it was a big problem, but the receiving group was also a problem early. Gronk was coming off injury and only played about half the snaps in the first four weeks. LaFell was new and he and Brady didn't click until Week 6 or so. Then apart from the personnel issues on the OL (exacerbated by trading Mankins on the eve of the season), you had a new coach, which was another adjustment.All this “Brady looked like a 42 year-old” stuff is stupid. The problems with the line lead to everything else. We talk about the 2014 KC game but does anyone actually remember the three games that preceded it? Brady’s timing was a mess. His footwork was bad, he missed guys left and right and his decision making was really poor. It was almost entirely because his OL play under Googs was a tire fire. Once they cleaned that up, it was off to the races. And with Wynn coming back they have a chance to clean things up.
That’s the good news. The bad news is that David Andrews isn’t coming back. And I think he’s the more important player because he is the guy who communicates everything. Mason has been a shell of himself this year without Andrews next to him. So I think the impact won’t be transformative just better. I also think Lacosse being back will be bigger than people think.
Brady is frustrated because he can’t do what he normally does. With Wynn back he should be able to do more of it.
He's always been a fantastic throw-away QB, and is especially good given that it's a significant challenge for him to get outside the tackle box. People complain about the "only Brady" intentional grounding calls, but I actually think most of them are deserved and the primary difference is that most NFL quarterbacks now have the ability to get three steps to the left or right in order to hoist one to sideline, but Brady doesn't. (By the way, the tackle box rule is stupid at this point given the many different styles of QBs and it is overly punitive for a particular style.) Anyway, the result is that he has to get more clever than most QBs to throw the ball away.I think Brady deserves some love. After watching the Watson-Jackson not-showdown in which Watson kept losing yards, and Wentz getting sacked, the value of Brady just throwing the ball into the turf to avoid sacks and help keep the field position advantages does not get enough notice. He's making the best of a bad OL situation.
The bolded is a good point. It does loook that's often the case. But it's almost like he's done the calculation in his head pre-snap and not getting sacked, losing yards or fumbling is such a huge factor that takes a lot to overcome.Sometimes I think he is a little too sack averse. On the one hand, it's probably good given that we're probably not going to win a division playoff game with Stidham under center this year. On the other hand, the QB protection rules are a little better than in the past and sometimes I think the defense would be a bit more honest if he hung in there a bit longer. So much of the offensive game planning to seems to be about sack avoidance.
Only 17 sacks allowed this year, which is fairly remarkable given the offensive line's troubles. I may get blasted for making the point, but I almost wonder if that's a bit too few. Maybe the bottom line is that no receivers ever get open very quickly 10 to 25 yards down field and so that's why we don't see those types of plays completed, but it really seems like Josh has no desire even to call them or Brady no desire to throw them at times. Sacks stop drives (usually) but so do three and outs.
At the time I thought it was a TD. Im not sure it would be an INT "anywhere else." When the receiver's elbow hit the ground he was down with the ball. At most, as Steratore said, it was 50-50 when he was down, so it's a catch. If it had been ruled an INT anywhere else, it would have been reviewed as a change of possession, and probably overturned.I was working yesterday and only was able to see parts of the game. What was the BS excuse the refs gave for the non-interception TD that Philly 'scored'. If that happens anywhere else on the field is that an interception?
I may be wrong about the rule but I think you can't fumble once you're down. He had the ball when his knee hit -- or at worst it was simultaneous possession -- so you can't call it a fumble.I was working yesterday and only was able to see parts of the game. What was the BS excuse the refs gave for the non-interception TD that Philly 'scored'. If that happens anywhere else on the field is that an interception?
To add what's been said above, I think there's a clear playoff vs. regular season calculation happening at this point in Brady's career. He's decided that he simply isn't going to take big hits for 19 games. I expect that he'll hang in longer in the postseason, as there were some of this happening last year too.Sometimes I think he is a little too sack averse. On the one hand, it's probably good given that we're probably not going to win a division playoff game with Stidham under center this year. On the other hand, the QB protection rules are a little better than in the past and sometimes I think the defense would be a bit more honest if he hung in there a bit longer. So much of the offensive game planning to seems to be about sack avoidance.
Only 17 sacks allowed this year, which is fairly remarkable given the offensive line's troubles. I may get blasted for making the point, but I almost wonder if that's a bit too few. Maybe the bottom line is that no receivers ever get open very quickly 10 to 25 yards down field and so that's why we don't see those types of plays completed, but it really seems like Josh has no desire even to call them or Brady no desire to throw them at times. Sacks stop drives (usually) but so do three and outs.
The fan at :23 was articulate, thoughtful, rational, coherent, well spoken.
The Pats scored one TD the week after a bye against a good (not great) defense. This is either an awful, awful take or an acknowledgement that the players on the field have such a low ceiling that basically the bare minimum of offensive performance means the coach did an exemplary job. Either way, yuck.Peter King with the outlier opinion
Coach of the Week
Josh McDaniels, offensive coordinator, New England. For hanging in there when nothing was going right, ending with the Tom Brady backward pass to Julian Edelman, who threw a gorgeous spiral to Phillip Dorsett for the winning TD. Beautiful play design and execution. McDaniels knows with the talent gap on offense he’s going to have to pull some stuff out of his hat while new offensive pieces develop (he and Brady hope). The Patriots whittled their way back from a 10-0 deficit with four scoring drives, including the only score of the second half, the 15-yard perfecto from Edelman to Dorsett.
It's not even the only McDaniels note in the columnThe Pats scored one TD the week after a bye against a good (not great) defense. This is either an awful, awful take or an acknowledgement that the players on the field have such a low ceiling that basically the bare minimum of offensive performance means the coach did an exemplary job. Either way, yuck.
The OL got the headlines in 2014 and obviously it was a big problem, but the receiving group was also a problem early. Gronk was coming off injury and only played about half the snaps in the first four weeks. LaFell was new and he and Brady didn't click until Week 6 or so. Then apart from the personnel issues on the OL (exacerbated by trading Mankins on the eve of the season), you had a new coach, which was another adjustment.
The parallels I guess are that in addition to the Andrews and Wynn absences, you've got two new WR in Sanu and Harry. Arguably LaCosse and Watson will play a bigger role down the stretch (Izzo is still leading all TE in snaps played). So there's some room for growth there.
The other reality is that the OL in 2014 improved, but only to a point. It was better after Week 4, it was acceptable, but it wasn't good. Brady had one of his weaker years statistically, the run game finished 22nd in YPC (3.9) and they had to totally give up on running the ball in two of the three playoff games, as well as several other ones. If 2014 is a parallel, the OL might get shored up, but it's not going to be a strength like it was last year.
These are both good posts – it’s not really apples-to-apples with 2014 and the league has changed somewhat since then. But here’s the question I’m thinking about:He's always been a fantastic throw-away QB, and is especially good given that it's a significant challenge for him to get outside the tackle box. People complain about the "only Brady" intentional grounding calls, but I actually think most of them are deserved and the primary difference is that most NFL quarterbacks now have the ability to get three steps to the left or right in order to hoist one to sideline, but Brady doesn't. (By the way, the tackle box rule is stupid at this point given the many different styles of QBs and it is overly punitive for a particular style.) Anyway, the result is that he has to get more clever than most QBs to throw the ball away.
Sometimes I think he is a little too sack averse. On the one hand, it's probably good given that we're probably not going to win a division playoff game with Stidham under center this year. On the other hand, the QB protection rules are a little better than in the past and sometimes I think the defense would be a bit more honest if he hung in there a bit longer. So much of the offensive game planning to seems to be about sack avoidance.
Only 17 sacks allowed this year, which is fairly remarkable given the offensive line's troubles. I may get blasted for making the point, but I almost wonder if that's a bit too few. Maybe the bottom line is that no receivers ever get open very quickly 10 to 25 yards down field and so that's why we don't see those types of plays completed, but it really seems like Josh has no desire even to call them or Brady no desire to throw them at times. Sacks stop drives (usually) but so do three and outs.
Sacks stop drives, but they also adversely affect field position. Given the punter (and Slater and Bethel), and given the D, punting is not a bad outcome in many instances. The further upfield they punt the better. This offense is built on consistently gaining yardage, not on chunk plays. Sacks / negative plays are pretty much the worst thing that can happen to this offense (outside of turning it over). If this team avoids turnovers and just lets the special teams and defense go to work, they can contend. If the offense improves, they are the favorite. Simple as that IMO.He's always been a fantastic throw-away QB, and is especially good given that it's a significant challenge for him to get outside the tackle box. People complain about the "only Brady" intentional grounding calls, but I actually think most of them are deserved and the primary difference is that most NFL quarterbacks now have the ability to get three steps to the left or right in order to hoist one to sideline, but Brady doesn't. (By the way, the tackle box rule is stupid at this point given the many different styles of QBs and it is overly punitive for a particular style.) Anyway, the result is that he has to get more clever than most QBs to throw the ball away.
Sometimes I think he is a little too sack averse. On the one hand, it's probably good given that we're probably not going to win a division playoff game with Stidham under center this year. On the other hand, the QB protection rules are a little better than in the past and sometimes I think the defense would be a bit more honest if he hung in there a bit longer. So much of the offensive game planning to seems to be about sack avoidance.
Only 17 sacks allowed this year, which is fairly remarkable given the offensive line's troubles. I may get blasted for making the point, but I almost wonder if that's a bit too few. Maybe the bottom line is that no receivers ever get open very quickly 10 to 25 yards down field and so that's why we don't see those types of plays completed, but it really seems like Josh has no desire even to call them or Brady no desire to throw them at times. Sacks stop drives (usually) but so do three and outs.
Just because your post made me curious I decided to look at the last few years of playoffs and see what kind of sack totals the Patriots' opponents have. I'm kind of starting to think that some of my premises were just not very valid and that sacks may not be much of a predictor of anything. Maybe if it were broken further down into knockdowns and hurries it would be more applicable. Also, they play so few games in football that small sample size issues are always lurking. One thing that does stand out in the stats is that the Patriots seem like they rarely give up too many yards on sacks. I didn't run the average over this time, but it seems like about 4 to 5 yards on average for the most part. (Maybe they get hit more with quick blitz sacks rather than coverage sacks and the former are usually a bit shorter in yardage?) Anyway, here's the info just because I looked it up. Again, not sure it really tells us anything and I don't think makes my point either way.To add what's been said above, I think there's a clear playoff vs. regular season calculation happening at this point in Brady's career. He's decided that he simply isn't going to take big hits for 19 games. I expect that he'll hang in longer in the postseason, as there were some of this happening last year too.
I'd guess a lot of it is that Brady is unlikely to run around long or far enough to turn a 5 yard sack into a -15 catastrophe.Just because your post made me curious I decided to look at the last few years of playoffs and see what kind of sack totals the Patriots' opponents have. I'm kind of starting to think that some of my premises were just not very valid and that sacks may not be much of a predictor of anything. Maybe if it were broken further down into knockdowns and hurries it would be more applicable. Also, they play so few games in football that small sample size issues are always lurking. One thing that does stand out in the stats is that the Patriots seem like they rarely give up too many yards on sacks. I didn't run the average over this time, but it seems like about 4 to 5 yards on average for the most part. (Maybe they get hit more with quick blitz sacks rather than coverage sacks and the former are usually a bit shorter in yardage?) Anyway, here's the info just because I looked it up. Again, not sure it really tells us anything and I don't think makes my point either way.
Yeah, there's probably that. I've never really noticed but he probably stays a bit shallow in the pocket too -- more than some QBs who go way back.I'd guess a lot of it is that Brady is unlikely to run around long or far enough to turn a 5 yard sack into a -15 catastrophe.