2019 from this point on

BaseballJones

goalpost mover
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
5,913
None of us wants to give up on this season. But the division is over, back 13.5 games. 5.5 back in the WC, with three teams ahead of them. That's not over, but it's a steep hill to climb with just 49 games remaining. Here's how many H2H games the Sox have left with the three teams in front of them in the WC chase:

3 at Cle
4 at TB
0 vs Oak

So those H2H games might help some (obviously only if the Sox win). Long story short, they are in pretty much desperate mode right now if they are seriously trying to make a run at the playoffs. Made even harder by the absolutely craptastic starting pitching we've seen over the last month and a half by Sale, Price, and Porcello, all of whom aren't just putting up non-Sale/Price/Porcello numbers, they've absolutely been completely horrific. No chance at the playoffs if they go like that the rest of the way.

So what should be the game plan moving forward? Should they go all-in to make the playoffs? Doesn't seem like DD was all-in given the zero trade deadlines moves. Seemed like he wanted to save some bullets moving forward and just hope the current guys get their act together. So, if you were running the Sox, how would you approach it?

1. GO FOR IT APPROACH - Given the pieces you currently have, or guys that get waived and become available through free agency, try to make one last push for the playoffs, playing your best players as much as possible, not "saving" the bullpen but just emptying the tank and trying to win as many games as you need to get into the postseason tournament, where anything could happen?

2. LET'S NOT GO CRAZY - Staying the course, hoping guys get hot, but also playing with next year in mind some. Not putting added wear and tear on pitchers' arms, even if it may mean winning that day's game.

3. WAIT TIL NEXT YEAR - Seeing if you can fix Sale or, if you think it would help, putting him on the shelf the rest of the year, calling it a lost season, being happy with the young guys' development (like X and Devers and Vazquez), maybe using the rest of the season to bring up some prospects and see how they do, giving them more ABs, etc.

How would you guys approach the rest of the year?
 

DeadlySplitter

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 20, 2015
18,595
I'm honestly in #3 mode. Bring up Houck, bring up Dalbec on September 1, see what you have everywhere.
 

bsj

Renegade Crazed Genius
SoSH Member
Dec 6, 2003
17,329
Central NJ SoSH Chapter
I was in #3 mode a week ago at and it was a terrible miscalculation for DD not to be. Selling, at least the limited resources we could, could have gotten us a least a few pieces that could help us down the road.
 

OurF'ingCity

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 22, 2016
3,280
New York City
I was in #3 mode a week ago at and it was a terrible miscalculation for DD not to be. Selling, at least the limited resources we could, could have gotten us a least a few pieces that could help us down the road.
I’d agree with you if we actually had anyone to sell, but who would that even have been? No one would have taken Porcello even for free probably, and our only two currently decent relief pieces - Workman and Barnes - are still relatively cost-controlled and thus I wouldn’t have been particularly enamored of trading then without getting back a significant prospect or two.

As annoying it is I think their “mostly stand pat” approach was the right one.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 23, 2009
10,780
Maine
I'm at #2. I'm always at #2.

I don't think there's anything to be gained by #1. So they pull out all the stops, play "there is no tomorrow" style for a month or two and squeak into the wildcard. Then what? Will they have enough juice left to get through the grind of the post-season? Maybe, maybe not. But I'd rather they get there without emptying the tank than get there and fall flat because the tank is empty.

I don't think there's anything to be gained by #3. Aside from using more of the young guys out of the bullpen, which they're doing already anyway, there's not a whole lot of young talent they need to assess anyway. I mean, it's not like bringing up Dalbec (for example) will have much impact on plans for 2020. Devers isn't going anywhere.
 

MakeMineMoxie

Well-Known Member
Bronze Supporter
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
704
The floor of Punter's Pub
I vote #2 because they just have not been consistent enough all year & I don't see the GFIN scenario (#1) really happening. Supposedly, they have been playing hard all year, just not in a balls to the wall mode so I don't believe they can just "turn it on" and play well enough to make the post-season. Come September, call up the promising kids and give them a real look and start planning for 2020.
 

Rovin Romine

Johnny Rico
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
9,546
Miami (oh, Miami!)
I don't think there's much of a difference between #1 and #2. It's not like they've got a reliable elite performers they could lean on for that number one option. If they had 2018 version of Sale we could speculate about things like trying to do something funky like steal a division game by pitching (the 2018 version of) Sale on 3 days rest against the Yankees. Or run the 2013 Koji out there for back to back to back saves. Or somehow cram a great bench bat into a weird defensive configuration.

And even if we did have someone the manager was tempted to ride, the time for that sort of thing has simply come and gone. Their seven game losing streak to their direct rivals has basically kicked them far back enough to make the WC2 spot something that's more in the hands of other teams underperforming.

I think they ought to stay the course and play competitively for a few more weeks. If they cant gain ground in two weeks, they should then play conservatively, not putting undue stress on pitcher's arms, etc. If they drop even further back than that, get some exposure for next year's players, rest the primary starters, etc.
 

mauidano

Mai Tais for everyone!
SoSH Member
Aug 21, 2006
27,780
Maui
Play to win todays game. You can't think about last year or next year. This is a good team. Play hard, take it one game at a time but play hard every fucking day.
 

geoduck no quahog

not particularly consistent
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Nov 8, 2002
11,366
Seattle, WA
Cora was talking about winning series. This is sample of what would need to happen to get 90+ wins (no Manila Metric jokes, please).

Orioles: Take 5 of 6
Indians: 2 of 3
Rockies: 1 of 2
Royals: 3 of 3
Angles: 5 of 7
Twins: 2 of 3
Yankees: 3 of 5
Phillies: 2 of 4
Padres: 2 of 3
Rays: 2 of 4
Rangers: 2 of 3
Blue Jays: 2 of 3

That gets them to 92 wins (33 and 16 the rest of the way, a .670 pace), so take a win off of the O's and Angels and it's 90.

That's 17 / 6 for the remainder of August. Anyone want to bet their TV on that? Not me.

I see it as impossible, but the Red Sox could still provide a ride...and some entertainment. Trouble is, there's no real entertainment value in the batch of September call-ups if they screw the pooch in August. All we can hope for is for the WC race to mean something...anything at all.
 

WayneHousieHOF

wants you to hate boston teams like him
SoSH Member
Jan 13, 2004
630
295 corridor
You go hard every damn day. Have to. The odds aren't great, but there is a lot of baseball left. If or when you are mathematically eliminated, you move on to 2020.
 

nattysez

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 30, 2010
3,774
Priority #1 has to be getting Sale straightened out. I don't know if that means sitting him out for the rest of the year, having him pitch in games every 10 days with "working on stuff" sim starts mixed in, or letting him keep grinding. If they are paying $30m for this performance level for the next few years, they're going to struggle regardless of whatever other moves they make.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 23, 2009
10,780
Maine
Priority #1 has to be getting Sale straightened out. I don't know if that means sitting him out for the rest of the year, having him pitch in games every 10 days with "working on stuff" sim starts mixed in, or letting him keep grinding. If they are paying $30m for this performance level for the next few years, they're going to struggle regardless of whatever other moves they make.
If he's not injured, they should just keep sending him out there. Their roster is strained enough carrying 8 relievers to cover the shortcomings of this rotation, where are they going to find someone to cover every other start in Sale's place? Maybe in September when rosters expand, they can consider giving Sale a few extra days off, especially if they're truly out of contention. But until then, they get nothing out of having him skip every other start to throw side sessions and simulated games.
 

Sampo Gida

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 7, 2010
5,038
When you have committed 240 million in payroll, and are 1 year closer to potentially losing JDM, Betts, E-Rod and JBJ you go for broke the rest of the way. Its not like opportunities for significant signings are expected from here on out. Just run them out there everyday to win or lose.

The incredible thing this year is how fortunate they have been in terms of injuries to their best players. Have to hope that continues. Its not like the Rays and A’s are these super teams that cant lose. A’s play in a tougher division ( 1 cupcake instead of 2) and we still have games left with the Rays
 
Jul 5, 2018
173
You go hard every damn day. Have to. The odds aren't great, but there is a lot of baseball left. If or when you are mathematically eliminated, you move on to 2020.
I agree that #1 is the only choice. They don't have to treat every game like the 7th game of the WS, but it would show a lack of respect for MLB not to try to win every game. Some of the games will be against teams fighting for the playoffs and the Sox need to make them earn any win. The Orioles played the last game of the 2011 season like it was a 7th game and that's the way it should be. I'm still miffed that the Yankees treated their game, that same night against the Rays, as if it were a ST game.

As for Sale, and assuming he's healthy, I would lose respect for him if he was willing to quit for the rest of the season.
 

bosox79

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
10,225
I don't think there's anything to be gained by #3. Aside from using more of the young guys out of the bullpen, which they're doing already anyway, there's not a whole lot of young talent they need to assess anyway. I mean, it's not like bringing up Dalbec (for example) will have much impact on plans for 2020. Devers isn't going anywhere.
If Dalbec happened to be hot for that month, it could increase his trade value a lot. I don't think the inverse is true, as I'm not sure he has much value now. If we are definitely out of it come September 1st, I'd be very tempted to make that gamble and sell high if it happens.

I'm kind of talking myself into wanting to see Denyi Reyes make a few starts. It's not like he could be much worse than Porcello/5th guy and he's already on the 40.

I'm also not sure there are really that many players worth auditioning. I'd struggle to name 5-6. Dalbec, Houck and then maybe Reyes, Lin, Lakins, Shawaryn, Chad De La Guerra. Houck and De La Guerra would have to be added to the 40. Ryan Brasier if he counts. Quite the inspiring list.
 

soxin6

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
2,813
Huntington Beach, CA
Option 3. The starting rotation continues to circle the drain and it appears that the offense is no longer trying to compensate for them. There is no chance that this team is making the playoffs and they should have tried to sell to help reset the roster for next year.
 

brs3

sings praises of pinstripes
SoSH Member
May 20, 2008
4,701
Jackson Heights, NYC
I don't see any instance where a waiver wire pickup(or 2 or 4) are going to change anything in a major way.

In order to succeed with #2, you'd need reliable arms to not burn through the bullpen....which is kind of why this conversation is happening.

The Red Sox are in it to put butts in the ballpark and get revenue from the fanbase. Admitting publicly that they're punting won't help the 25 home games remaining, especially with only a few series vs. contending teams. They could focus more of Devers breakout season and other players with solid seasons, but doing nothing at the deadline is as close to the white flag we'll see.
 

Plympton91

bubble burster
SoSH Member
Oct 19, 2008
11,862
One thing they should do is pick the position. Chavis is going to play next season and play him there everyday for the rest of this year. Or, if the plan is to trade him, start giving him at least 1 game a week at 3B, because that’s where he has his highest value in a trade.

Use D Hernandez as the closer for the rest of this season to test him in high leverage situations, so we see how well he might do as a co-relief Ace next season.

Stop overusing Workman. He should be managed very carefully so that he doesn’t break down and goes into the offseason strong and ready for a full offseason of conditioning and whatever else they do in the winter now.

DFA Leon and bring up someone else. Force Sale to get used to pitching to Vazquez. This idea of having one of the worst hitters in baseball in our line up 3 out of 10 games is Lunacy.

Put Porcello in the bullpen and let Brian Johnson have the last 8 starts to sink or swim for good. If he’s good enough, he’s a cheap 5th starter. If not you can safely DFA him and free up a slot for someone better.
 
Nov 24, 2007
204
PBO NC
Only 12 of the remaining 49 games are against tough teams (MFY, Rays, Francona-men) -- 15 if you count the Twins.
Something happened to this team in the past week. Sale screwing the pooch with a chance to sweep the Yankees seems to have been the trigger for a huge letdown. Having to face the Rays and Yankees again in that state was a disaster waiting to happen. At the MLB level, where the talent is so strong, the mental aspects of the game are a huge factor. If you're not on your game, you'll get your ass handed to you. Seems like that's what's happened in the past week. This team needs a break -- like the manufactured rainout in Bull Durham -- to take some pressure off. Hopefully the Royals coming to Fenway will help (though Fenway has not been a sanctuary for the home nine this year).
I think we'll see the Sox get back to beating the weaker teams and continue losing to the stronger teams. But if they don't get back to beating weaker teams (like the Os series before the Yanks series), I'd start changing roles as in some of the suggestions above. My metric would be doing worse than 9-6 over the next 15 games which includes 3 vs Royals, 4 vs Angels, 3 @ Cleveland, 3 vs Os and 2 vs Phillies. Maybe extend it thru the west coast trip -- 3 @ SD, 2 @ Col, 3 @ Angels -- which takes the team into Sept. I'd be looking for no worse than a 14-9 record in those 23 games. I'm not looking for the team to be contending for the wild card, just to get back to playing respectable baseball and winning the games/series they should win. If not, then start auditions. Sale, Price, Porcello and Cashner still giving up 5+ runs per game in <5 innings? Bullpen or IL them and bring some guys up to make their starts. Figure out where Chavis will fit in. Can Sam Travis actually give you a professional at-bat when it counts? Give Marco more at-bats. Audition D Hernandez at closer (or in the rotation). Etc.
 
Last edited:

BaseballJones

goalpost mover
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
5,913
The next 23 games are against these teams:

Schedule (opponent's W-L record as of this morning)
3 vs KC (40-73)
4 vs LAA (56-57)
3 at Cle (66-45)
3 vs Bal (38-73)
2 vs Phi (58-53)
3 at SD (51-60)
2 at Col (52-60)
3 at LAA (56-57)

I mean, if you can't make hay against a schedule like that, you don't deserve to be anywhere near the playoffs. In these 23 games, they probably need to go something like 17-6 or 16-7 to have a shot.
 

Rovin Romine

Johnny Rico
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
9,546
Miami (oh, Miami!)
The next 23 games are against these teams:
I mean, if you can't make hay against a schedule like that, you don't deserve to be anywhere near the playoffs. In these 23 games, they probably need to go something like 17-6 or 16-7 to have a shot.
Good point. The question is, are these particular Sox going to make hay? They have been good about beating up on the weak teams thusfar. But if they go .500ish against the other .500ish teams, that's your six losses right there. And if those losses are already assumed, can they then afford to loose even just 2 "should have won it" games in the next 23? Because I think that given the team inconsistency and starter implosions, those are also pretty much baked in at this point. So 14-9 is just as likely.
 

BaseballJones

goalpost mover
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
5,913
Good point. The question is, are these particular Sox going to make hay? They have been good about beating up on the weak teams thusfar. But if they go .500ish against the other .500ish teams, that's your six losses right there. And if those losses are already assumed, can they then afford to loose even just 2 "should have won it" games in the next 23? Because I think that given the team inconsistency and starter implosions, those are also pretty much baked in at this point. So 14-9 is just as likely.
Yeah, I'm not at all confident that THESE particular Red Sox are going to fare well enough over this 23-game stretch to make the playoffs a real possibility. And if they can't, then obviously they simply don't deserve it.
 
Sep 13, 2006
689
Establish Chavis as the everyday first basemen and Marco Hernandez as the everyday second basemen. Let's see if they're ready for those jobs in 2020.

Use Eovaldi as an opener, gradually building up his innings with each outing.
 

TomBrunansky23

Member
SoSH Member
May 4, 2006
547
Crapchester, NY
One thing they should do is pick the position. Chavis is going to play next season and play him there everyday for the rest of this year. Or, if the plan is to trade him, start giving him at least 1 game a week at 3B, because that’s where he has his highest value in a trade.

Use D Hernandez as the closer for the rest of this season to test him in high leverage situations, so we see how well he might do as a co-relief Ace next season.

Stop overusing Workman. He should be managed very carefully so that he doesn’t break down and goes into the offseason strong and ready for a full offseason of conditioning and whatever else they do in the winter now.

DFA Leon and bring up someone else. Force Sale to get used to pitching to Vazquez. This idea of having one of the worst hitters in baseball in our line up 3 out of 10 games is Lunacy.

Put Porcello in the bullpen and let Brian Johnson have the last 8 starts to sink or swim for good. If he’s good enough, he’s a cheap 5th starter. If not you can safely DFA him and free up a slot for someone better.
I feel like I have some distance this morning from the blind rage of the past week so it's good to start thinking like this. There's still a chance that they slide in as WC2 and that's fine, keep playing with that goal in mind. I think it's more important however to start assessing what you've got going forward. I don't think those are mutually exclusive concepts. After all, the "normal" way they have been doing things hasn't worked.

The one part I think I disagree with you is in terms of Chavis and 3B. The bright spot this year has been Devers and I would not mess with him being there every day and continuing to improve. I'd rather see Chavis at 2B every day and figure out if that's where he fits in for 2020. That allows you to keep giving Travis ABs at 1B to see if there is anything there. They're going to need solutions at 1B and 2B next year. In Chavis you'll have a plus offensive player at 2B and the chance to go out and get a first baseman with Moreland's and Pearce's money that can make a difference to the lineup. Perhaps Travis shows enough to stick as a bench player/backup to whoever that first baseman turns out to be.

I think back to the last couple months of 2015 (after Farrell's diagnosis) and how critical that time was to the development of the team over the next three years. They also played much better baseball during that period. Maybe that can be the case this time around too.
 

OurF'ingCity

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 22, 2016
3,280
New York City
Use Eovaldi as an opener, gradually building up his innings with each outing.
Assuming they are not considering a permanent bullpen move for Eovaldi, I strongly agree with this suggestion. Why have him work out of the bullpen unnecessarily for the next few months if he's then going to be asked to revert to being a starter next year? Better to use him as an opener so that he at least can get back into his usual process/timing for warming up at the beginning of a game, etc. There may also be some benefit to him pitching in relatively lower-leverage innings so that he doesn't feel it necessary to put full effort into every pitch if that's something he doesn't yet feel 100% comfortable with.
 

BaseballJones

goalpost mover
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
5,913
Devers has improved considerably at 3b and is obviously a monster with the bat. He goes nowhere. Chavis...this has been a good year of development/growth for him, and maybe he's better suited to be kind of a 1b/2b hybrid guy, wherever they need him. But it might be good for his further growth to stick at 2b (or 1b...whatever) and be done with it.

Love the Eovaldi suggestion Pozo made.

I do think that one of the very very very top priorities needs to be figuring Sale out. Do whatever you have to do to get him right, and if that means losing some more games this year, so be it. They absolutely need him to be CHRIS SALE moving forward in 2020 and beyond. If he needs to shut it down this year, shut it down. If he needs to take some time out of the bullpen, fine. Whatever. It. Takes.

I also think they need to figure out if they have a viable 5th starter in the organization already. Maybe it's Cashner. Actually, he's probably as good as anyone for that role. His season stats: 4.44 era, 1.30 whip. Let's compare that to other teams' (playoff contenders) fifth starters:

Bos: Cashner: 4.44 era, 1.30 whip
NYY: Sabathia: 4.78 era, 1.37 whip
Min: Perez: 4.58 era, 1.40 whip
Cle: Plutko: 4.55 era, 1.15 whip
Hou: McHugh: 5.52 era, 1.24 whip
Oak: Mengden: 4.85 era, 1.42 whip
Atl: Gausman: 6.19 era, 1.49 whip
ChC: Quintana: 4.40 era, 1.35 whip
LAD: Maeda: 4.37 era, 1.13 whip

In other words, Cashner is just fine for a 5th starter - better than most teams have, in fact. So going into 2020 with a rotation of Sale, Price, Rodriguez, Eovaldi, and Cashner ought to be, in theory, pretty solid. Of course, they can't just suck or it won't matter.
 

mfried

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 23, 2005
1,535
Sale's mechanics are the single biggest reason we are in such sorry shape. He needs a coach to work on establishing a consistent release point - preferably a 6'6" (Randy Johnson would do) former power pitcher.
 

chawson

Well-Known Member
Bronze Supporter
Aug 1, 2006
1,557
Any discussion of a 5th starter should be indexed against what we already have in Velazquez, who put up a 5.44 FIP as a starter this year and 5.27 FIP last year. Cashner’s a fine pseudo-deadline deal given the circumstances, but he’s put up a 5.62 FIP in his four starts. Sox may also be using him wrong, leaning so much more heavily on the changeup that made him successful this year in Baltimore that it’s now getting crushed.

Cashner is probably better than that, but not much. His upside at this point is probably a 4.50 FIP, and it’s not really worth paying $10 million for his age-33 season (plus the opportunity cost of trying out a younger guy with upside) to find out if he can hit that mark.

Rolling with Velazquez isn’t going to work either. I’d rather the Sox trade for someone whose arsenal they can tweak for upside — maybe get Jose Ureña and have Pedro work with him.
 

YTF

Well-Known Member
Silver Supporter
SoSH Member
Any discussion of a 5th starter should be indexed against what we already have in Velazquez, who put up a 5.44 FIP as a starter this year and 5.27 FIP last year. Cashner’s a fine pseudo-deadline deal given the circumstances, but he’s put up a 5.62 FIP in his four starts. Sox may also be using him wrong, leaning so much more heavily on the changeup that made him successful this year in Baltimore that it’s now getting crushed.

Cashner is probably better than that, but not much. His upside at this point is probably a 4.50 FIP, and it’s not really worth paying $10 million for his age-33 season (plus the opportunity cost of trying out a younger guy with upside) to find out if he can hit that mark.

Rolling with Velazquez isn’t going to work either. I’d rather the Sox trade for someone whose arsenal they can tweak for upside — maybe get Jose Ureña and have Pedro work with him.
There are plenty of guys on the current roster that I would like to see Pedro working with.
 

BornToRun

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 4, 2011
11,858
I’m at #2. Don’t throw in the towel but also don’t grind guys into the dirt for a long shot. I’m always glass half full and crazier things have happened but I recognize that it isn’t exactly likely at this point. I also agree with Jones that these next few weeks are our last good shot at making a real run at this thing. If we can take care of the dregs like we should then it’s game on down the stretch. If not, well then we’ll always have 2018 and we can start looking to next year with the core of the team mostly still intact.

At the very least I’d like to finish strong regardless of playoff positioning. A World Series buys a lot of leeway with me so I’ll be satisfied with a solid record and ending up playoff adjacent.
 

YTF

Well-Known Member
Silver Supporter
SoSH Member
How many of them throw 96?
It wasn't presented as an either/or. Just stating that there are plenty of guys on the current roster that I would like to see Pedro working with. In fact I posted about this very subject six days ago in the bullpen thread.


Just curious if anyone here is in the know. The Sox have Pedro on staff as a special assistant. Has he been asked to spend any time at all with some of these guy during the season? I know that typically you might not want to do that with a veteran or maybe risk stepping on the toes of the pitching coach, but there is a huge monetary investment in this team. If you have an asset such as Pedro Martinez at your disposal don't you bring him in to at the very least work with someone like Braiser or Johnson in while they are in Pawtucket? Walden, Brewer, Taylor, etc... If he's around and lending a hand to some of the younger guys maybe one or two of the veterans look to pick his brain. I'm amazed whenever I hear Pedro speak about pitching, I can only imagine the knowledge that he can share. Things he might pick up in a pitchers delivery as well as recognizing certain tendencies with hitters. We hear him speak about this stuff all the time on the MLB Network.
 

Rovin Romine

Johnny Rico
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
9,546
Miami (oh, Miami!)
Yeah, I'm not at all confident that THESE particular Red Sox are going to fare well enough over this 23-game stretch to make the playoffs a real possibility. And if they can't, then obviously they simply don't deserve it.
If they lose tonight, and drop 2 of 3 to the Royals, I think we're done with the hypothetical 10 game gain sometime in the next 20 games.
 

Green Monster

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 29, 2000
2,003
CT
It wasn't presented as an either/or. Just stating that there are plenty of guys on the current roster that I would like to see Pedro working with. In fact I posted about this very subject six days ago in the bullpen thread.


Just curious if anyone here is in the know. The Sox have Pedro on staff as a special assistant. Has he been asked to spend any time at all with some of these guy during the season? I know that typically you might not want to do that with a veteran or maybe risk stepping on the toes of the pitching coach, but there is a huge monetary investment in this team. If you have an asset such as Pedro Martinez at your disposal don't you bring him in to at the very least work with someone like Braiser or Johnson in while they are in Pawtucket? Walden, Brewer, Taylor, etc... If he's around and lending a hand to some of the younger guys maybe one or two of the veterans look to pick his brain. I'm amazed whenever I hear Pedro speak about pitching, I can only imagine the knowledge that he can share. Things he might pick up in a pitchers delivery as well as recognizing certain tendencies with hitters. We hear him speak about this stuff all the time on the MLB Network.
View: https://www.mlb.com/video/pedro-martinez-helps-out-eovaldi-c2437326983


That is exactly what happened last season......... Pedro worked with Eovaldi shortly after the Sox acquired him, seems like it worked out pretty well........as far as I'm concerned, the more Pedro the better. If Dana doesn't like it, too bad.
 
Last edited:

lexrageorge

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
7,607
Option 2. Play to win, but keep the long game in mind. It's still too early to give up on the season; Sox fans should know all too well that sometimes teams fade down the stretch while another team gets hot.

If on Labor Day the situation looks hopeless, then put the brakes on and start prepping for next season. Shut down Sale and Price and probably Barnes and Workman as well, give Mookie and JD days off, and see what happens.
 

Rovin Romine

Johnny Rico
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
9,546
Miami (oh, Miami!)
Agreed. It's just about time to pick a team to root for instead of the Sox. Tito always seems to be a good choice to back.
Well, since the "10 games over .500 for the next 23 games" concept was floated, the Sox have gone 1-1-1 v the Royals and 2-2 v the LAA.

I can't say that Cora was completely terrible during this stretch, but he didn't appear to consistently make good decisions. On the 8-11 game he pulled Cashner early (good) but left a journeyman AAAA player in for the whole game (0-5), including a K with 2 out and the bases loaded in the 2nd.

Barring a 13 game winning streak (3 Cle, 2 Bal, 2 Phi, 3 SD, 2 Col) boosting them to 75-58, I think they're done. (And even then, if Cle and Minn go 6-7 each, they'd still be a game up on the Sox, who'd begin a 10 game stretch against LAA, Minn, NYY.)
 

BaseballJones

goalpost mover
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
5,913
Yep, barring a miracle, they're done. Now just enjoy watching the individual players do the things that make them great (watch Sale dust guys, watch JBJ make incredible catches, watch Mookie run and JD and Devers mash), but don't expect the playoffs, and get ready for football season. Not the end of the world. Until late October arrives, the Sox are still the champs.
 

OurF'ingCity

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 22, 2016
3,280
New York City
Yep, barring a miracle, they're done. Now just enjoy watching the individual players do the things that make them great (watch Sale dust guys, watch JBJ make incredible catches, watch Mookie run and JD and Devers mash), but don't expect the playoffs, and get ready for football season. Not the end of the world. Until late October arrives, the Sox are still the champs.
If Sale reverts to something like his previous form (his last start was a good first step down that road) in the final 1.5 months or so left, that alone would be a great end to the season at this point. Hopefully now that the pressure is mostly off, he (and other pitchers who have struggled) will feel a little more leeway to experiment, tinker, etc.

/searching for the silver lining
 

section15

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 23, 2007
128
Bradford, MA and section 15
Just enjoying the games for what they are.

Next year. Going around the horn, if you consider Chavis as your second baseman - other than 1st, all the position players are locked down and under team control.
Assuming Porcello is not renewed, around $40 million or more is coming off the payroll in November. That gives the Sox some ability to hit the FA market...
 

dano7594

lurker
Jul 15, 2005
67
Its a shame Porcello has not even pitched well enough to receive a qualifying offer. No way they offer that, he would take it.

Would love to use the remainder of the year as an audition for Marco at 2nd.

I will lose my mind if I see anyone in the organization, or anyone post the question of what to do with Steven Wright? Then go on to speculate 4th starter? 5th starter? Closer? 8th inning? If they are relying on anything from him, we are in trouble. He has been unreliable for 3 straight years. Its over.
 

Sampo Gida

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 7, 2010
5,038
Never really doubted we would not grab a WC spot. Now it looks like thats not happening. Of course, still some baseball to play, but its not looking good.

If it doesn't happen its on the pitching. DD and ownership get some blame (not much) and if managers get credit for winning they have to get blamed for not winning too. Cora was too complacent.

That said, we won last year, so i just cant get too broken up about not winning this year. Rest up for 2020 if we sit out for October.

Might not be around for 2020 with stage 4 RCC, but the last 20 + years have been a good ride. Frankly 67-86 weren't too bad either. My uncle passed away with lung cancer in august 2003 after 50 -60 years of hoping to see them win, so I cant complain much. I did stray a bit after 2011, as I never really forgave them for dumping Tito, but thats water over the dam. Its still good today, a fun offense, so enjoy what you can and then its Bruins and Pats (maybe Celts)
 

Rovin Romine

Johnny Rico
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
9,546
Miami (oh, Miami!)
Yep, barring a miracle, they're done. Now just enjoy watching the individual players do the things that make them great (watch Sale dust guys, watch JBJ make incredible catches, watch Mookie run and JD and Devers mash), but don't expect the playoffs, and get ready for football season. Not the end of the world. Until late October arrives, the Sox are still the champs.
I think in some ways that makes the farce worse. I greatly prefer a WS season followed by a competitive one, no matter what the final outcome, like 2005 or 2008. I'd enjoy watching the champs compete and thinking about that oh-so-rare back to back WS champ possibility. By contract, the first to last transition just isn't enjoyable. Especially when the team sucks right out of the gate.
 

bosockboy

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
10,604
St. Louis, MO
I think in some ways that makes the farce worse. I greatly prefer a WS season followed by a competitive one, no matter what the final outcome, like 2005 or 2008. I'd enjoy watching the champs compete and thinking about that oh-so-rare back to back WS champ possibility. By contract, the first to last transition just isn't enjoyable. Especially when the team sucks right out of the gate.
Even though they only won one title, it makes you appreciate the Braves 15 year run of consistency in the 90’s and 2000’s. Answered the bell every year.
 

donutogre

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
1,746
Philadelphia
Might not be around for 2020 with stage 4 RCC, but the last 20 + years have been a good ride. Frankly 67-86 weren't too bad either. My uncle passed away with lung cancer in august 2003 after 50 -60 years of hoping to see them win, so I cant complain much. I did stray a bit after 2011, as I never really forgave them for dumping Tito, but thats water over the dam. Its still good today, a fun offense, so enjoy what you can and then its Bruins and Pats (maybe Celts)
Well shit, enjoy the rest of the season -- one game at a time. Good luck, fuck cancer, kick its ass and be here to start a thread on opening day 2020, k?
 

Green Monster

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 29, 2000
2,003
CT
Might not be around for 2020 with stage 4 RCC, but the last 20 + years have been a good ride. Frankly 67-86 weren't too bad either. My uncle passed away with lung cancer in august 2003 after 50 -60 years of hoping to see them win, so I cant complain much.
This certainly puts things into perspective doesn't it......keep fighting!! Thanks for reminding ALL of us to enjoy each day, none of us know how long we have
 

BaseballJones

goalpost mover
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
5,913
Not at all sure which thread to put this thought in, and I didn't feel like starting another thread (I've started a few in the past few weeks and think that's plenty). But just some comparisons from 2018 to 2019, MLB-wide...

Runs scored per game
2018 - 4.45
2019 - 4.86

BA
2018 - .248
2019 - .254

OBP
2018 - .318
2019 - .323

SLG
2018 - .409
2019 - .437

OPS
2018 - .728
2019 - .761

HR/G
2018 - 1.15
2019 - 1.40

SB/G
2018 - 0.51
2019 - 0.47

SB%
2018 - 72.1%
2019 - 72.7%

ERA
2018 - 4.14
2019 - 4.52

WHIP
2018 - 1.30
2019 - 1.34

BB/9
2018 - 3.2
2019 - 3.3

K/9
2018 - 8.5
2019 - 8.8


Long story short: Hitting is up across the board in all slash categories. Homers are up. Walks are up. Runs are up. Strikeouts are also up. Unearned runs are up *slightly*.

Juiced ball for real? Or the lunch angle revolution nearing its zenith?
 

The Gray Eagle

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2001
12,783
Well shit, enjoy the rest of the season -- one game at a time. Good luck, fuck cancer, kick its ass and be here to start a thread on opening day 2020, k?
This certainly puts things into perspective doesn't it......keep fighting!! Thanks for reminding ALL of us to enjoy each day, none of us know how long we have
Wow, yes to echo these posts, so sorry to hear this awful news. Keep fighting, and be here to start that Opening Day game thread!