2019 Cowboys: And now for something completely different...

Bosoxen

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...or not.

With the news that the Cowboys do not anticipate making any major changes to the coaching staff, it's time to once again face reality: nothing will ever change as long as Jerry Jones is alive. Jason Garrett will remain the head coach, Scott Linehan will remain the offensive coordinator, Dak Prescott will remain the starting quarterback, and we will continue to smash our heads against the wall in frustration. Oh, sure, Kris Richard will be promoted to defensive coordinator; which will be music to @Greg29fan's ears, considering the rumors that the Rams knew what the Cowboys were doing on defense.

It's a testament to the talent on the roster that they were able to win the division and advance to the Divisional round despite being predictable on offense and defense. Somewhere in the deep recesses of my brain resides a tiny optimist, and that optimist in me thought that the addition of a safety of the caliber of Earl Thomas might vault the defense into the elite tier. The reality, however, of being a Cowboys fan is much more complicated - and heartbreaking - than that. Every time you can allow yourself to start to believe they may have turned a corner, they pull the rug out from under you. But hey, at least they didn't lose like Chicago. So, yay?
 

Greg29fan

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Linehan coming back is the Cowboys at their worst.

I don't necessarily mind Richard; it's more the idiots in the fanbase who think he should be the head coach because he yells on the sidelines. If you think the Garrett Era has run its course, fine, but one of the qualifications for his replacement shouldn't be "yeller."
 

TFisNEXT

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I'm ok with Garrett staying...only because there's a ton of coaches out there who are probably worse and Jerrah would hire one of them. Not because I love him as a coach.

Other than waiting for the grim reaper to come get Jerrah, which may take another 1-2 decades, 2019 to me as a fan is about whether Dak can elevate himself to a top 10 QB. I made a post in the 2018 thread a couple days ago about how there are some mixed reviews on if he can improve. The camp of scouts who think he can improve point to footwork...to reduce the number misfired passes. We'll see soon enough.

Defense finished the season on a real sour note. That was disappointing but they are very young and talented and I think they can improve.

Offense should get Frederick back at center. Cooper gets a full offseason in the offense. So if Dak can improve as debated above, good things could happen but that's obviously a big if.
 

Bosoxen

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Other than waiting for the grim reaper to come get Jerrah, which may take another 1-2 decades, 2019 to me as a fan is about whether Dak can elevate himself to a top 10 QB. I made a post in the 2018 thread a couple days ago about how there are some mixed reviews on if he can improve. The camp of scouts who think he can improve point to footwork...to reduce the number misfired passes. We'll see soon enough.
I don't think that will do anything to improve his accuracy. I've seen him throw in ideal conditions* (feet set, no pressure, not throwing over a mass of people) and he's just not accurate at all. Maybe improving the footwork will improve his non-existent timing and pocket presence but even at his best, he'll still be missing receivers left and right. I just don't know that we need any more evidence than the fact that his dump off passes to Elliott are often behind him or forcing him to turn the wrong way and costing him the ability to gain any yardage.

*Check out the first couple of episodes of All or Nothing. In that show, he's seen having throwing contests post-practice with Jason Garrett. They do things like throwing into a trash bin a few yards away, or hitting a specific seat in the stands. Garrett, a career backup, absolutely wipes the floor with Prescott. It was at that point that I realized the franchise was in trouble if it hitched its wagon to that particular star.

I know accuracy can be taught to a certain extent but it's generally an inherent skill, which he clearly does not have and I have no faith he ever will.
 

BigSoxFan

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Let’s say no extension for Dak this offseason and a comparable season in 2019. Are Cowboys fans prepared to pull the plug? What’s Plan B?
 

Bosoxen

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Let’s say no extension for Dak this offseason and a comparable season in 2019. Are Cowboys fans prepared to pull the plug? What’s Plan B?
I hear Joe Flacco may be available next month.

But seriously*, the answer to that question largely depends on what happens with Elliott. If (when?) he's signed to a big money extension, they'll have no choice but to go the draft route. I think this offseason and what they do with the freed up Romo and Dez money will go a long way towards determining what they do at QB.

*I'm actually only half joking. Though I think it unlikely, if he could be had for a decent contract, I'd much rather he be the backup than Cooper Rush.
 
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Bosoxen

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Clearly, we're not the only ones having this discussion.

Don't expect too much from the Dallas Cowboys. Jerry Jones no longer does.

A few money quotes:
he is more interested in being proven right on the Jason Garrett issue -- no matter how long it takes -- than in doing the right thing.
He compared criticism of Garrett -- longest-tenured coach in the league without a trip to a conference title game -- to early critiques of the original Cowboys coach.

"The great Tom Landry had criticism because he couldn't get past a certain round. And he ended up winning two Super Bowls here," Jones said.
And yet Jones, who proudly presides over a franchise of ghosts, examines his current team and says, "When I look at how our coaching staff has evolved, I give it a good grade."

Two playoff wins in eight years for this staff.
This tells me three things:

1) Jason Garrett isn't going anywhere. And if Garrett isn't going anywhere, neither is Scott Linehan.

2) The range of outcomes which would result in Dak Prescott not receiving a huge contract extension at the end of the 2019 season is now more like a series of two or three plot points.

3) The rumors of Stephen Jones's growing influence are greatly exaggerated. It seems his influence will be limited to just the draft. That's no small thing but will still barely make a dent.

Not that we didn't know any of this already. Buckle up, ladies and germs, because this ride will not be ending anytime soon.
 

DeadlySplitter

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good news resident fans - Linehan has been fired. Jerry change of heart seeing media reaction?


http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-41053211-4

Jason Garrett’s statement on Scott Linehan’s departure, calling it a mutual decision: “This was not an easy decision because of how highly we regard Scott Linehan as a football coach and as a person. He and I had some really positive, substantive and open discussions which took place in the latter part of this week, and we ultimately agreed that it would be in the best interest of all of the parties involved if we were to make a change at this (offensive coordinator) position. This was very much a mutual decision, and there was a great deal of common ground and shared understanding between both of us during our meetings. Scott has had an incredibly positive impact on our football team. He has been instrumental in the development and success of a significant number of our veteran and younger players. He is an outstanding football coach, a great friend and we wish him and his family nothing but the absolute best moving forward.”
 

Deathofthebambino

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I don't think that will do anything to improve his accuracy. I've seen him throw in ideal conditions* (feet set, no pressure, not throwing over a mass of people) and he's just not accurate at all. Maybe improving the footwork will improve his non-existent timing and pocket presence but even at his best, he'll still be missing receivers left and right. I just don't know that we need any more evidence than the fact that his dump off passes to Elliott are often behind him or forcing him to turn the wrong way and costing him the ability to gain any yardage.

*Check out the first couple of episodes of All or Nothing. In that show, he's seen having throwing contests post-practice with Jason Garrett. They do things like throwing into a trash bin a few yards away, or hitting a specific seat in the stands. Garrett, a career backup, absolutely wipes the floor with Prescott. It was at that point that I realized the franchise was in trouble if it hitched its wagon to that particular star.

I know accuracy can be taught to a certain extent but it's generally an inherent skill, which he clearly does not have and I have no faith he ever will.
I'm going to turn you into a Dak supporter if it's the last thing I do. Obviously, if you're looking for perfection, you're not going to find it with Dak, but if that's the standard, you're probably not going to find it with anyone. As far as NFL QB's go, he's a damn good one, IMO. I think almost all of his struggles in the passing game can be boiled down to the receivers he's played with at a particular time. As I said earlier in the year, he had maybe one of the 5 worst receiving corps in all of football to throw the ball to when the season started. Allen Hurns, Cole Beasley, Michael Gallup, Geoff Swaim, etc.

The Cowboys then bring in Amari Cooper and over the last 9 games, Dak has a 71.25% completion percentage on 320 attempts (that's pretty damn accurate), he averaged 274.2 yards per game passing, he threw 14td's and only 4 interceptions, had a passer rating of 103.0 and also ran for another 4td's. Most importantly, he led the team to a 7-2 record, including two huge wins against Philly, home and away. He's 32-16 lifetime as a starter, not including the playoffs (but I don't think you can pin either of the two playoff losses that he's had on him anyway).

His Achilles heel is the fumbling. He needs to be more aware of the rush around him, and protect the ball. That said, he had to hold onto the ball for an eternity early in the season because again, he didn't have anyone who could get open in under 5 seconds. Fortunately, I think that's something that will improve with experience and time, and better weapons to throw to. In the first 11 games this season, he had 12 fumbles. In the last 7 games, including the playoffs, he had zero. So, maybe he's coming around, or maybe he's getting rid of the ball a little quicker now that Cooper is there, and Gallup started playing well, and he turned Blake Jarwin into an actual receiving threat.

The bottom line is Dallas is not going to be anywhere near the top of the draft any time soon, especially with that defense and the Giants and the Redskins in their division, so they are going to have to make a move in free agency, or they are going to have to hit on someone in the draft that nobody else sees coming. I think it would be crazy to give up on Dak, when they are so young, and have such a talented defense. Flacco? You think Dak has accuracy problems? Dak has a lifetime completion percentage of 66.1%. Joe Flacco has a lifetime completion % of 61.7%. Even when Dak had nobody to throw to last year, and put up pretty dreadful numbers, he still had a completion % of 62.9%. Flacco would be a disaster for Dallas, IMO. Dak was 67.7% this year, and Flacco was 61.2%. They aren't even in the same breath as quarterbacks anymore, IMO.

Shoot, if the Cowboys give up on Dak next year, I'll tell you what, I think he'd look pretty darn good in the red, white and blue of the New England Patriots. He's one of the few QB's in the NFL that plays equally as well outdoors as he does indoors, and I think the Pats would be crazy to not bring him in rather than take a chance on the draft until they finally hit on someone. I'll take the known entity at QB 100 times out of 100, rather than become the Cardinals, or Jets, or Bills or Browns or....Teams that spend year after year and draft after draft trying to find the next QB of the future, only to miss and have to start all over again, while the team sucks year in and year out. If Dallas gives up on Dak, there will be a line of teams waiting to throw money at him, and in his case, I think he'll actually deserve it, unlike the Alex Smith's and Case Keenum's and Brock Osweiler's of the world...
 

Greg29fan

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Good chance to go outside the organization and get a fresh perspective on the offense (I'd like to get Mike Kafka from KC), but all the smoke is around Doug Nussmeier, which would be a horrible, horrible decision after a good one.
 

Bosoxen

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I'm going to turn you into a Dak supporter if it's the last thing I do. Obviously, if you're looking for perfection, you're not going to find it with Dak, but if that's the standard, you're probably not going to find it with anyone. As far as NFL QB's go, he's a damn good one, IMO. I think almost all of his struggles in the passing game can be boiled down to the receivers he's played with at a particular time. As I said earlier in the year, he had maybe one of the 5 worst receiving corps in all of football to throw the ball to when the season started. Allen Hurns, Cole Beasley, Michael Gallup, Geoff Swaim, etc.

The Cowboys then bring in Amari Cooper and over the last 9 games, Dak has a 71.25% completion percentage on 320 attempts (that's pretty damn accurate), he averaged 274.2 yards per game passing, he threw 14td's and only 4 interceptions, had a passer rating of 103.0 and also ran for another 4td's. Most importantly, he led the team to a 7-2 record, including two huge wins against Philly, home and away. He's 32-16 lifetime as a starter, not including the playoffs (but I don't think you can pin either of the two playoff losses that he's had on him anyway).

His Achilles heel is the fumbling. He needs to be more aware of the rush around him, and protect the ball. That said, he had to hold onto the ball for an eternity early in the season because again, he didn't have anyone who could get open in under 5 seconds. Fortunately, I think that's something that will improve with experience and time, and better weapons to throw to. In the first 11 games this season, he had 12 fumbles. In the last 7 games, including the playoffs, he had zero. So, maybe he's coming around, or maybe he's getting rid of the ball a little quicker now that Cooper is there, and Gallup started playing well, and he turned Blake Jarwin into an actual receiving threat.

The bottom line is Dallas is not going to be anywhere near the top of the draft any time soon, especially with that defense and the Giants and the Redskins in their division, so they are going to have to make a move in free agency, or they are going to have to hit on someone in the draft that nobody else sees coming. I think it would be crazy to give up on Dak, when they are so young, and have such a talented defense. Flacco? You think Dak has accuracy problems? Dak has a lifetime completion percentage of 66.1%. Joe Flacco has a lifetime completion % of 61.7%. Even when Dak had nobody to throw to last year, and put up pretty dreadful numbers, he still had a completion % of 62.9%. Flacco would be a disaster for Dallas, IMO. Dak was 67.7% this year, and Flacco was 61.2%. They aren't even in the same breath as quarterbacks anymore, IMO.

Shoot, if the Cowboys give up on Dak next year, I'll tell you what, I think he'd look pretty darn good in the red, white and blue of the New England Patriots. He's one of the few QB's in the NFL that plays equally as well outdoors as he does indoors, and I think the Pats would be crazy to not bring him in rather than take a chance on the draft until they finally hit on someone. I'll take the known entity at QB 100 times out of 100, rather than become the Cardinals, or Jets, or Bills or Browns or....Teams that spend year after year and draft after draft trying to find the next QB of the future, only to miss and have to start all over again, while the team sucks year in and year out. If Dallas gives up on Dak, there will be a line of teams waiting to throw money at him, and in his case, I think he'll actually deserve it, unlike the Alex Smith's and Case Keenum's and Brock Osweiler's of the world...
You're doing some serious gymnastics to make him sound good. Let's put aside, for now, the fact that he doesn't pass the eye test. That 67.7% completion percentage sure sounds good, doesn't it? It puts him in the top 10 in the league. But you drill down a bit and it starts to look a little less rosey. That comes at a rate of 7.4 yards/attempt, which is good for a whopping 17th-best in the league. As if that weren't bad enough, his Net Yards per Attempt comes in at a womp womp-worthy 24th-ranked 6.08 yards (I know this is hurt by his sack numbers but those were just as much his fault as the offensive line's). QBR? 58.6 or 18th-best - at least according to Pro Football Reference.

Football Outsiders likes him even less. His Defense-adjusted Yards Above Average is 112 - good for 25th - and his DVOA is underwater at -8.1%, which is 26th. And if that's not bad enough, he's dead fucking last for qualified quarterbacks (behind such luminaries as Josh Rosen and Case Keenum) in his ability to convert 3rd downs, according to their ALEX stat.

As for Flacco, notice I focused on him as a backup and potential stopgap, not as the future QB. Nice job pummeling that strawman, though.

Will Prescott be the best option going forward? That's entirely possible but unless he shows major improvement next year, there's only so much they'll be able to pay him that won't have me screaming my head off.
 

Deathofthebambino

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You're doing some serious gymnastics to make him sound good. Let's put aside, for now, the fact that he doesn't pass the eye test. That 67.7% completion percentage sure sounds good, doesn't it? It puts him in the top 10 in the league. But you drill down a bit and it starts to look a little less rosey. That comes at a rate of 7.4 yards/attempt, which is good for a whopping 17th-best in the league. As if that weren't bad enough, his Net Yards per Attempt comes in at a womp womp-worthy 24th-ranked 6.08 yards (I know this is hurt by his sack numbers but those were just as much his fault as the offensive line's). QBR? 58.6 or 18th-best - at least according to Pro Football Reference.

Football Outsiders likes him even less. His Defense-adjusted Yards Above Average is 112 - good for 25th - and his DVOA is underwater at -8.1%, which is 26th. And if that's not bad enough, he's dead fucking last for qualified quarterbacks (behind such luminaries as Josh Rosen and Case Keenum) in his ability to convert 3rd downs, according to their ALEX stat.
I completely, 1000% disagree that he doesn't pass the eye test, but you're right, we'll put that aside.

My first question is what makes any of those statistics more worthwhile than passer rating, completion %, wins and losses?

My second question is what do those numbers look like once Amari Cooper showed up? You keep killing the guy for what happened early in the season, but he had no help. This is the same reason people kept talking about Tom Brady falling off a cliff. His numbers were down, but people weren't accounting for the fact that Edelman missed 4 games, Gronk missed 3 games, Gordon missed 5 games, Sony Michel basically missed 4 games. I think those guys actually played together in the same game like 3 times in the first 12 weeks. Once the Patriots receivers and backs got healthy (or unsuspended), all of a sudden, Brady's numbers looked good, and that "cliff" talk is now a running joke.

That said, I'll play the game a little. His yards/attempt was 8.04 after Cooper got there, which would place him 10th in the NFL, instead of 18th. But I have to ask this question. Why would anyone care about a statistic in which Ryan Fitzpatrick blew away the NFL (he was 9.6 and the #2 guy was 8.8)? And Tom Brady finished 14th, and Big Ben was 13th? Prescott was actually 18th, one spot behind Aaron Rodgers at 17th. Based on the results, I'd say an argument could be made that you're better off finishing middle of the pack. Andrew Luck, who is an MVP candidate this year, was 21st in yards/attempt, so yeah, I'm not looking to base any judgment on a quarterback based on yards/attempt.

Net Yards attempt is more of the same. Ryan Fitzpatrick blows away the field, which includes Brady at #8, Luck at #12, Watson at #14, Russell Wilson at #16, Aaron Rodgers at #18....

The QBR stat you're using is the one ESPN created in 2006. That 58.6 puts him at 18th. You know who comes in 4th? Mitch Trubisky. 5th? Jameis Winston. Aaron Rodgers is 20th, Baker Mayfield is 23rd, so Dak has them beat, and that's without even eliminating the early part of the season where he had nobody to throw to. I don't know why we'd use ESPN's QB rating over the one that everyone has used for 30+ years, which shows him 103.00 once Cooper joined the team, and would put him 7th in the NFL behind DeShaun Watson (Watson is 15th using ESPN's Rating).

I won't even get into the FO stuff, because it just makes me insane. But let me just say, how do you cite 1 statistic that has Mitch Trubisky ranked 4th, and then another statistic (FO's DVOA) where he's ranked 20th, and say they are both evidence that Dak sucks? And I'm the one doing gymnastics?
 

Marciano490

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I looked up Dak’s hand size to see if maybe that was a reason for the fumbling, and his hands are huge - 10 7/8”. So, hopefully it’s something fixable.
 

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I don’t think you need numbers with him and if he fits on the Pats. He’s not a good fit for this system which requires quite a few reads, using your eyes to manipulate guys in coverage and then hitting a receiver with timing and anticipation. Dak is more of a see-it throw-it guy. You can win with those types. But that’s not necessarily the best skill set for this offense. You’d have to operate things a bit differently with him at the helm.
He played better with Cooper and I’ll admit I got that one wrong. His accuracy is still not his strong suit either which would be another ding for his fit here.
 

Michelle34B

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How long can the Cowboys keep Will McClay when there is no GM position to offer him. Their drafts have been incredible since he took over scouting in 2014.

One game that stands out from last year for Prescott was week 7 against the Redskins. Early in the game, the Cowboys had a 3rd down play where Prescott ran out of a decent pocket and should have conceded the play by running out of bounds at the end.


Most of his runs after this were similar to this play, but goal line reads for him to hand off to Ezekiel, or keep it if the backside DL was blocked. So he was usually beating an LB or DB in space 5 yards away from a touchdown.


He and Gallup connected on a beautiful TD. Gallup shows great hands catching the ball and keeping his stride in form. The knock against him was poor route running, but this play must have opened eyes up.


The day after this game, the Cowboys trade for Amari Cooper.

I looked up Dak’s hand size to see if maybe that was a reason for the fumbling, and his hands are huge - 10 7/8”. So, hopefully it’s something fixable.
It's a blessing and a curse. You'll see Dak carry the football in one hand away from his body because he is able to. Same game, and a 3rd and 14 plays out just as bad as it possibly could.


I really like Michael Gallup. Dak has some shortcomings, but once he makes a decision, he gets the ball out quickly. Jerry will spend money on coordinators, so get the right guy to get Prescott to take more shots downfield to Cooper and Gallup and get results. This team has an excellent window in the next two years with cap space and a young core under contract.
 

Greg29fan

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Looks like we're getting The Clapper calling the plays with Kellen Moore being promoted to OC and Jon Kitna coming in to coach QBs.

I don't know when Jerrah lost his nuts about coaching changes, but it's quite something to behold. You have a chance to get a fresh outlook on the offense and just shuffle the chairs around.
 

Bosoxen

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My first question is what makes any of those statistics more worthwhile than passer rating, completion %, wins and losses?
Nothing. All they do is attempt to paint a more complete picture. One which is more nuanced than whatever it is you're attempting to argue. What is your argument, anyway? Because it sure sounds like you're trying to convince me that his only flaw was a handful of crappy receivers.

My second question is what do those numbers look like once Amari Cooper showed up? You keep killing the guy for what happened early in the season, but he had no help.
This is a two-part answer:

1) I'm not finding a way to break down the stats by week but it frankly doesn't matter. I think we can at least agree on one thing: that those stats were worse prior to Cooper's arrival.
2) I'm not criticizing him just for what happened in the first few weeks of the 2018 season. I'm criticizing him for his entire body of work, the main two of which are his lack of accuracy and pocket presence. Both issues have plagued him his entire career, not just in weeks 1-7 in 2018. You're a little too Johnny Come Lately to know that I've been harping on these issues since his rookie season. Even then, in the midst of his Rookie of the Year season, I was advocating for Romo's return. I felt that Romo gave them the best chance to win.

I won't even get into the FO stuff, because it just makes me insane. But let me just say, how do you cite 1 statistic that has Mitch Trubisky ranked 4th, and then another statistic (FO's DVOA) where he's ranked 20th, and say they are both evidence that Dak sucks? And I'm the one doing gymnastics?
They are merely counterpoints to the statistics you threw out, which attempt to paint a more complete picture. No one stat is the answer to the ultimate question: will Dak Prescott be worth the contract he will ultimately end up commanding? I say it depends. You say, I guess, that the Cowboys should pay him the moon.

Here's what it boils down to for me: his stats improved after the acquisition of Cooper but this was in his areas of strength. I've still seen little to no improvement in the areas where he's deficient. In fairness to Prescott, I place most of the blame for that on the coaching staff.

Speaking of the coaching staff:
Looks like we're getting The Clapper calling the plays with Kellen Moore being promoted to OC and Jon Kitna coming in to coach QBs.

I don't know when Jerrah lost his nuts about coaching changes, but it's quite something to behold. You have a chance to get a fresh outlook on the offense and just shuffle the chairs around.
Because Jason Garrett's play calling worked so well with a better pure passer? I guess this means they'll be able to afford Prescott after all because Elliott is going to see his work load diminish greatly. Get ready, Dak lovers, for a lot of shotgun passes from 1st and Goal at the 1 yard-line!
 

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If you ding QBR against Dak in 2018, then you must love him in 2016 and 2017 when he finished 3rd and 4th in the NFL respectively.
 

Bosoxen

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If you ding QBR against Dak in 2018, then you must love him in 2016 and 2017 when he finished 3rd and 4th in the NFL respectively.
Sure, but that's only one piece of the puzzle, right? We'd be daft to attempt to analyze a player based on a single statistic.

2016 was easily his best year statistically, all across the board. He, and the team, have been all over the place since then. I don't think it's a coincidence that the team and its quarterback have been so wildly inconsistent at pretty much the same time. While I can appreciate that personnel issues have played a role (receivers and line, alike, have been issues), I would also expect a player who's nearing a potentially huge pay day to do more to elevate his team. If he's going to be paid like a top 10 QB, which I suspect he ultimately will, I don't think it's too much to ask for him to play like it.
 

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Looks like we're getting The Clapper calling the plays with Kellen Moore being promoted to OC and Jon Kitna coming in to coach QBs.

I don't know when Jerrah lost his nuts about coaching changes, but it's quite something to behold. You have a chance to get a fresh outlook on the offense and just shuffle the chairs around.
Having Jon Kitna coach QBs after his mechanics when he played, well, you better hope the old saying "Those who can, do; those who can't, teach" is very true.
 

Bosoxen

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Cole Beasley seems determined to burn every bridge on his way out of town:

That tweet appears to be gone. Maybe he replaced it with a more sanitized version?

Not that he's wrong about Jerruh's meddling, but it's disappointing, considering the lack of capable receivers on the roster.
 

Deathofthebambino

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Sure, but that's only one piece of the puzzle, right? We'd be daft to attempt to analyze a player based on a single statistic.

2016 was easily his best year statistically, all across the board. He, and the team, have been all over the place since then. I don't think it's a coincidence that the team and its quarterback have been so wildly inconsistent at pretty much the same time. While I can appreciate that personnel issues have played a role (receivers and line, alike, have been issues), I would also expect a player who's nearing a potentially huge pay day to do more to elevate his team. If he's going to be paid like a top 10 QB, which I suspect he ultimately will, I don't think it's too much to ask for him to play like it.
He is playing like it. Over the last 9 games of this year (ie. when they finally gave him an actual receiver to throw to), he was absolutely a top 10 QB in the NFL. Every statistic from QBR to wins and losses shows that over the second half of the season.

I know you were a Romo fan, I was a Romo fan too. I had no problem with people advocating for his return in 2016. But obviously, that boat has left the dock, so the question now is what to do going forward. Remember 2015? Romo got hurt and missed basically the entire season. He played 4 games and Dallas went 3-1. The Cowboys had a pretty good team and yet, Cassell/Moore/Weeden combined to go 1-11 over the remaining 12 games and they finished 4-12.

Then along comes Dak in 2016. He's a 4th round pick, and he takes that 4-12 team, and leads them to a 13-3 record, putting up fantastic numbers along the way. Then in 2017, his two top weapons, Witten and Dez, are literally in their final years of their careers, Zeke gets suspended for 6 games, and he still manages to keep them afloat and go 9-7. 2018 starts slowly, but the Cowboys wise up and go get him a real receiving option, and he proceeds to lead the team to an 8-2 record in their last 10 games, including their first playoff win, in well, a really, really, long time.

They've got a championship calibre defense that is pretty much as young and as homegrown as any team could possibly ever have, and they've got a top 3 running back, a true #1 receiver, a young receiver that could be ready to make the leap on the other side, an up and coming tight end, and a great offensive line.

You really want to blow all that up, and start over in the hopes you're able to find the next great young QB? It's so damn hard to find a quarterback in the NFL, and I just think you continue to sell Dak short. Maybe as a fan of the Cowboys, your expectations for a good quarterback are just set way too high (kind of like Patriots fans who blast Brady every time he throws an incomplete pass). I'm not even remotely close to a Dallas fan, so I'm looking at this as unbiased as I possibly can, and I think Dak puts them in a great position to succeed going forward.

Dallas isn't going to draft high enough to get one of the better QB's in the draft the next couple years, and unless Cowboy fans would rather have the Teddy Bridgewaters and Joe Flacco's of the world leading the team out of free agency, I'm just not sure they have any option at all besides resigning Dak. He ain't perfect, that's for sure, but he's so, so much better than any alternative I can think of, and I'll bet there are 10-15 teams in the NFL right now that would take Dak in a heartbeat rather than have to go out and find and groom another quarterback, in the off chance he ends up as good as Dak.

Now, if Dallas resigns Dak, and then once he's under contract for a bunch of years, some team with a top 5 pick in the draft is willing to trade that pick straight up for him, maybe you consider it and go get the QB you want, but besides that option presenting itself, I don't see any other avenue for Dallas going forward.
 

Bosoxen

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He is playing like it. Over the last 9 games of this year (ie. when they finally gave him an actual receiver to throw to), he was absolutely a top 10 QB in the NFL. Every statistic from QBR to wins and losses shows that over the second half of the season.

I know you were a Romo fan, I was a Romo fan too. I had no problem with people advocating for his return in 2016. But obviously, that boat has left the dock, so the question now is what to do going forward. Remember 2015? Romo got hurt and missed basically the entire season. He played 4 games and Dallas went 3-1. The Cowboys had a pretty good team and yet, Cassell/Moore/Weeden combined to go 1-11 over the remaining 12 games and they finished 4-12.

Then along comes Dak in 2016. He's a 4th round pick, and he takes that 4-12 team, and leads them to a 13-3 record, putting up fantastic numbers along the way. Then in 2017, his two top weapons, Witten and Dez, are literally in their final years of their careers, Zeke gets suspended for 6 games, and he still manages to keep them afloat and go 9-7. 2018 starts slowly, but the Cowboys wise up and go get him a real receiving option, and he proceeds to lead the team to an 8-2 record in their last 10 games, including their first playoff win, in well, a really, really, long time.

They've got a championship calibre defense that is pretty much as young and as homegrown as any team could possibly ever have, and they've got a top 3 running back, a true #1 receiver, a young receiver that could be ready to make the leap on the other side, an up and coming tight end, and a great offensive line.

You really want to blow all that up, and start over in the hopes you're able to find the next great young QB? It's so damn hard to find a quarterback in the NFL, and I just think you continue to sell Dak short. Maybe as a fan of the Cowboys, your expectations for a good quarterback are just set way too high (kind of like Patriots fans who blast Brady every time he throws an incomplete pass). I'm not even remotely close to a Dallas fan, so I'm looking at this as unbiased as I possibly can, and I think Dak puts them in a great position to succeed going forward.

Dallas isn't going to draft high enough to get one of the better QB's in the draft the next couple years, and unless Cowboy fans would rather have the Teddy Bridgewaters and Joe Flacco's of the world leading the team out of free agency, I'm just not sure they have any option at all besides resigning Dak. He ain't perfect, that's for sure, but he's so, so much better than any alternative I can think of, and I'll bet there are 10-15 teams in the NFL right now that would take Dak in a heartbeat rather than have to go out and find and groom another quarterback, in the off chance he ends up as good as Dak.

Now, if Dallas resigns Dak, and then once he's under contract for a bunch of years, some team with a top 5 pick in the draft is willing to trade that pick straight up for him, maybe you consider it and go get the QB you want, but besides that option presenting itself, I don't see any other avenue for Dallas going forward.
I still don't get what your argument is. You've made your point about his numbers before and after the Cooper trade several times but to what end? Is your point that they have no better alternatives? I conceded that point long ago. Is your point that he should be paid like a top 10 QB? I conceded that as a likelihood as well. Is your point that I should shut up and take it? Should I succumb to the Dak-side and tattoo the #4 on my shoulder? I honestly have no idea what you're getting at and I'd like to know so we can move on from this tiresome debate.
 

Deathofthebambino

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I still don't get what your argument is. You've made your point about his numbers before and after the Cooper trade several times but to what end? Is your point that they have no better alternatives? I conceded that point long ago. Is your point that he should be paid like a top 10 QB? I conceded that as a likelihood as well. Is your point that I should shut up and take it? Should I succumb to the Dak-side and tattoo the #4 on my shoulder? I honestly have no idea what you're getting at and I'd like to know so we can move on from this tiresome debate.
Mainly, I was responding to this "I would also expect a player who's nearing a potentially huge pay day to do more to elevate his team. If he's going to be paid like a top 10 QB, which I suspect he ultimately will, I don't think it's too much to ask for him to play like it."

There is no argument. It's a "discussion" on a "discussion board." Someone posts something, someone else posts a reply to that, and on it goes. It's pretty much how this place works. You write that you want him to do more to 'elevate his team' and I pointed out that he's 32-16 as a starter, and led the Cowboys to a division title and a playoff win this year. How much more do you realistically expect him to elevate the team? Only 4 QB's made it further than Dak this year, Brees/Brady/Mahomes/Goff. That's 2 Hall of Famers, the league MVP/ROY, and a recent #1 overall draft pick. You are correct. Dak is none of those things and probably won't be able to elevate his team as much as they can.

Then you said you don't think it's much to ask him to play like a top 10 QB. I then tried to show that's exactly what he has been since he entered the league, with the exception of when he literally had no skill position players around him. The numbers back this up.

That said, I'm not looking for anything from you. It's sports, you can hate whoever you want for whatever reason you want. If you came in and posted "I hate Dak because he has a stupid ugly face, and a stupid name and a stupid car and he went to a stupid school...." it wouldn't bother me in the slightest. But, if you tell me you're looking for more like you did, then I guess I'm asking, "What more do you want and/or expect from him? Or any other QB not named Brady/Brees/Mahomes, etc?"
 

Bosoxen

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Rather than asking why, my only question is: what the fuck took him so long?
 

Greg29fan

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If he wants the job (IMO he does), he's played it perfectly. Everybody is gaga over him right now after calling out a bunch of plays in the AFC title game, while the Cowboys have tripped over their own dicks with the offense hires and have a much tougher schedule this coming year, which should mean some regression, and Jason's contract is up after the season.
 

Deathofthebambino

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What was Romo's relationship with Garrett like at the end? When Tony hung up his cleats, was he pissed at Garrett for moving on to Dak?

I'm honestly asking, because you guys would know better than I would. If they didn't have a great relationship, it would probably be one of the greatest coups ever if Romo was the one to take over after the Cowboys finally move on.

That said, Romo is reportedly making 4million per year right now at CBS. Madden was making double that 25 years ago, so it wouldn't be unprecedented for CBS to increase that number significantly. Gruden got 10 years/100million to go back to the Raiders, but I can't imagine Jerry Jones would make that kind of mistake (not that Romo would turn out to be a mistake, but I think giving that kind of guaranteed money to any NFL coach not named Belichick is a mistake), so let's say he offered Romo 5yrs/40million to come back and coach. If CBS offered to match it, would Romo give up a 20 week/year broadcasting gig to take one of the most demanding jobs on the planet? Gruden always had the fire to coach again, and everyone knew it, and he has the ego of a head coach, but Romo doesn't strike me as that kind of guy. I could be completely wrong, and maybe Romo is really laying the groundwork to become the HC of the Cowboys (or any team), but I think if CBS is willing to pay him a comparable amount, it'd be a really tough decision.
 

Marciano490

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Is what Romo did that amazing? Whenever I’ve watched with people who played even college ball, they’d bet among themselves on playcalls with frightening accuracy.
 

Bosoxen

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I think that's what Terrell Owens was getting at, in the rather inelegant way that is his MO. I don't think it's quite the mystery that it seems to be to the layperson to diagnose what play is coming or what the defense is preparing to do, so that's probably why what Romo did appears to be magical. The stage on which he did it would have amplified that. With that said, and contrary to what Owens is claiming, Romo did get really good at diagnosing defenses later in his career. Part of that is a function of experience but he's also, by all accounts, a pretty smart dude. He has the technical knowledge and the communications skills to potentially be a good coach. Whether that would translate into actually doing that job is the multi-million dollar question.

As for his relationship with Garrett, I don't think we'll ever know. Neither guy seems the type to air dirty laundry so even if there were bad blood between them, I doubt we'd ever hear about it.
 

Michelle34B

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I don't know if he is top 10 or not. It got me thinking about more about other quarterbacks considering it.

Yes, Dak has to improve his footwork, but he also needs to be highlighted doing what he does best. So many conversations about him are what he does wrong. He throws well on the run, especially running straight upfield, and he commits to his decisions.
 
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Also, I'm terrible as an analyst and I can probably still play a little, so let's use this as a shot at a championship AND a segue away from an embarrassing post-playing career detour.
 

E5 Yaz

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Also, I'm terrible as an analyst and I can probably still play a little, so let's use this as a shot at a championship AND a segue away from an embarrassing post-playing career detour.
I was going to say this was a good move for ESPN. They should hire Joe Thomas
 

Bosoxen

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Also, I'm terrible as an analyst and I can probably still play a little, so let's use this as a shot at a championship AND a segue away from an embarrassing post-playing career detour.
This also re-opens the door to him coming aboard as a coach once he actually retires for good. It's not exactly a state secret that Jerry likes to hire his former players as coaches.

I think this is great for all involved. Except maybe those chuckleheads who thought Blake Jarwin was the second coming because of one fucking game.
 

Mystic Merlin

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Is there any precedent for an NFL player retiring, sitting out a full year, then coming back as an active player?

I can’t imagine how difficult it would be to jump into that pool of injury and fatigue after tasting gentler waters.
 

lostjumper

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Well, Josh Gordon didn't retire but he did sit out a full year and play 6 games before...you know.
Too soon?

But to add to the thread, Marshawn Lynch just did this I believe. So I guess it's possible.
Deion Sanders as well.
 

Dollar

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Is there any precedent for an NFL player retiring, sitting out a full year, then coming back as an active player?

I can’t imagine how difficult it would be to jump into that pool of injury and fatigue after tasting gentler waters.
Marshawn Lynch is the only one I can think of, but he was just short of his 30th birthday when he retired. Coming back at 37 years old is going to be tough I'd imagine.
 

dynomite

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Is there any precedent for an NFL player retiring, sitting out a full year, then coming back as an active player?

I can’t imagine how difficult it would be to jump into that pool of injury and fatigue after tasting gentler waters.
Definitely strange, but it has happened: Marshawn Lynch and Randy Moss (at age 35) both did it.

NFL.com has a list of other examples: http://www.nfl.com/photoessays/0ap3000001019429
 

PedroKsBambino

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He'd probably have more impact coming back to coach the team, but certainly won't hurt at TE either.