2019 ALCS - Yankees vs. Astros - General Gamethread

jon abbey

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It's also worth keeping in mind that Carlos Beltran is working for the Yankees currently and probably knows exactly what HOU is doing, or at least whatever they were doing through 2017.
 

Comfortably Lomb

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I kind of like the Astros, don’t get me wrong it was great stomping them last year, but they’re a fun to watch team. If they’re breaking unwritten rules I might be trending toward loving them.
 

E5 Yaz

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The poor, poor Yankees. No wonder they take those extended seventh-inning stretches; it's so they can regroup what with everyone conspiring against them
 

E5 Yaz

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It's also worth keeping in mind that Carlos Beltran is working for the Yankees currently and probably knows exactly what HOU is doing, or at least whatever they were doing through 2017.
I'm pretty sure he knows what dastardly deeds the Yankees are up to as well
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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The poor, poor Yankees. No wonder they take those extended seventh-inning stretches; it's so they can regroup what with everyone conspiring against them
But seriously, they are the victims of an unwritten rule breach. At least acknowledge it and the fact that were the league interested in fairness, the Yankees would be the beneficiary of unwritten remedies as a result.

As s side note, I think unwritten rules violations are actually way worse than when someone breaks a written rule.
 

HriniakPosterChild

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This is the 2nd time that players on the opposing team have felt so strongly about the Yankee fans' behavior that they've spoken up about it. Having been to Yankee Stadium and sat out there, it does not surprise me.
Only the second?

I remember the 1995 ALDS:
Steinbrenner, the Yankee owner, who has complained recently about low attendance at at Yankee Stadium, played down the seriousness of the fans' behavior, and said objects hurled at fans and onto the field were not dangerous. "They found one Frisbee and the rest was toilet paper," he told reporters after Wednesday's game.

But Mariners' officials and Yankee Stadium security guards said yesterday that besides the shot glass, the list of items that actually rained onto the field during both games was as varied as it was long: plastic cups, Frisbees, souvenir bats, stereo headphones, tomatoes, grapefruit, golf balls, bottles, batteries and an assortment of coins.

A softball narrowly missed the head of Lou Piniella, the Mariners' manager, and in the sixth inning Wednesday, after back-to-back homers by Ruben Sierra and Don Mattingly, Piniella went so far as to pull his team off the field for about three minutes as wild fans showered the field with debris.
And I remember when riot police came out of nowhere and setup shop in foul territory after debris came down during the 2004 ALCS:

 

jon abbey

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He meant the second time this postseason, a Twins relief pitcher complained also.
 

SemperFidelisSox

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Who starts Game 6 for Houston if they find themselves down 3-2? Uriquidy? They have the luxury of being up 2-1. Roll the dice in Game 4 with Uriquidy or use an opener like Peacock, then set yourself up for Greinke, Verlander, Cole 5-6-7.
 

jon abbey

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Who starts Game 6 for Houston if they find themselves down 3-2? Uriquidy? They have the luxury of being up 2-1. Roll the dice in Game 4 with Uriquidy or use an opener like Peacock, then set yourself up for Greinke, Verlander, Cole 5-6-7.
So their answer to this is to do their best not to get down 3-2 by starting Verlander on full rest in game 5. I think this is the right move but the real issue is if NY somehow does win two and goes up 3-2, HOU then kind of has to start Cole on 3 days rest in game 6 or risk the series ending before it gets back to him in game 7.
 

SirPsychoSquints

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So their answer to this is to do their best not to get down 3-2 by starting Verlander on full rest in game 5. I think this is the right move but the real issue is if NY somehow does win two and goes up 3-2, HOU then kind of has to start Cole on 3 days rest in game 6 or risk the series ending before it gets back to him in game 7.
That's silly. In that scenario, they need to win both games 6 AND 7. Use Cole on full rest in 7 rather than risk his effectiveness in game 6.
 

jon abbey

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That's silly. In that scenario, they need to win both games 6 AND 7. Use Cole on full rest in 7 rather than risk his effectiveness in game 6.
I don't think it will happen so we will never know, but Jeff Passan agrees that this is what would happen in his just published overview:

"Yankees win Game 4, win Game 5: Panic time for the Astros. With their season on the line, they likely move up Cole to start Game 6 on three days' rest to save their season."

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/27848798/what-learned-far-mlb-playoffs-come-next
 

SirPsychoSquints

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I don't think it will happen so we will never know, but Jeff Passan agrees that this is what would happen in his just published overview:

"Yankees win Game 4, win Game 5: Panic time for the Astros. With their season on the line, they likely move up Cole to start Game 6 on three days' rest to save their season."

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/27848798/what-learned-far-mlb-playoffs-come-next
But he gives no evidence for that - he doesn't cite sources or anything. He appears to be making an assumption. Passan has good sources for transactions, but is there any reason to think he knows what he's talking about here? It's an illogical strategy, and the Astros are the Astros.
 

jon abbey

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But he gives no evidence for that - he doesn't cite sources or anything. He appears to be making an assumption. Passan has good sources for transactions, but is there any reason to think he knows what he's talking about here? It's an illogical strategy, and the Astros are the Astros.
No, but there's no reason to think you know any better either. There's no reason to debate it either, you have an opinion and Passan and I have a different opinion, but we're not going to know unless NY goes up 3-2.

Also Al Leiter raised a good point (unusual for him) on MLBN last night, which is that if HOU wins tonight, it would make a lot of sense for them to push Verlander back to game 6 as originally scheduled and avoid that potential Cole in game 6 on short rest decision completely. This one I'm less sure about but it would make sense.
 

Murderer's Crow

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But he gives no evidence for that - he doesn't cite sources or anything. He appears to be making an assumption. Passan has good sources for transactions, but is there any reason to think he knows what he's talking about here? It's an illogical strategy, and the Astros are the Astros.
He says "they likely" because that's probably what happens. I don't think he's implying he knows for sure.
 

SirPsychoSquints

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No, but there's no reason to think you know any better either. There's no reason to debate it either, you have an opinion and Passan and I have a different opinion, but we're not going to know unless NY goes up 3-2.

Also Al Leiter raised a good point (unusual for him) on MLBN last night, which is that if HOU wins tonight, it would make a lot of sense for them to push Verlander back to game 6 as originally scheduled and avoid that potential Cole in game 6 on short rest decision completely. This one I'm less sure about but it would make sense.
That plan makes even less sense! It removes the possibility of Verlander pitching in game 7 and doesn't allow Greinke to pitch in the bullpen game (because now it's game 5 instead of game 6). And there's no upside, unless you think Verlander will pitch meaningfully better on 5 days rest than 4. It's basically the exact opposite rationale as pitching Cole on short rest.
 

jon abbey

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Yes, if you are up 3-2, everything is different from being down 3-2, especially if you have aces like Verlander and Cole. It's the opposite rationale because the series situation is opposite.

And it's really not clear that Verlander on one day's rest is something HOU would want to try, when he came in out of the bullpen against BOS in 2017, that was 3 days rest, and when he tried starting on 3 days rest in the ALDS, he got shelled.
 

SirPsychoSquints

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Yes, if you are up 3-2, everything is different from being down 3-2, especially if you have aces like Verlander and Cole. It's the opposite rationale because the series situation is opposite.

And it's really not clear that Verlander on one day's rest is something HOU would want to try, when he came in out of the bullpen against BOS in 2017, that was 3 days rest, and when he tried starting on 3 days rest in the ALDS, he got shelled.
The Leiter scenario is up 3-1 instead of tied 2-2. Optionality has value, finishing a series earlier has value. What's the upside to pushing back Verlander's start?
 

jon abbey

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The Leiter scenario is up 3-1 instead of tied 2-2. Optionality has value, finishing a series earlier has value. What's the upside to pushing back Verlander's start?
Verlander is better at home (2.34 ERA, 2.82 on the road) and would have an extra day of recovery before what would already be his fourth postseason start. I'm not saying they would do it, but I can see both sides.
 

jon abbey

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In fact, you're probably right and they start Verlander in game 5 anyway, I should know better than to ever think seriously about something Al Leiter suggests. I do think if NY somehow wins the next 2, they will have a really hard decision for game 6 and they will end up using Cole on short rest, which he has never done.
 

Wingack

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So their answer to this is to do their best not to get down 3-2 by starting Verlander on full rest in game 5. I think this is the right move but the real issue is if NY somehow does win two and goes up 3-2, HOU then kind of has to start Cole on 3 days rest in game 6 or risk the series ending before it gets back to him in game 7.
Yep totally agree. This rainout could help benefiting the Yankees as they probably have a better chance of beating JV at Yankee Stadium then in Houston.
 

E5 Yaz

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Yep totally agree. This rainout could help benefiting the Yankees as they probably have a better chance of beating JV at Yankee Stadium then in Houston.
Unless of course the Astros win today and can go pen in game 5 and have JV and Cole waiting in Houston
 

jon abbey

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The pressure is on NY this series to win the games that Verlander/Cole don't pitch, along with one of the four they do. The pressure was on NY to win in game 1, they did. The pressure was then on HOU to hold serve in games 2 and 3, they did. The pressure today is all on NY again, but if they manage to win, then things get interesting.
 

E5 Yaz

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sean1562

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man, no matter how many yanks players seem like actually decent people, their fans just make it impossible for any other fanbase to have anything but total contempt for the squad
 

sean1562

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Nah the guy is just an asshole and thinks it’s funny to make a joke about grienkes high school sweetheart. So funny right!! LMAO!!!
 

SemperFidelisSox

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I keep waiting for the Astros offense to bust out and score 10+ runs but Yankees pitching has largely shut them down (with the exception of Ottavino). Four homeruns in the series, all solo shots.