This thread may be as short-lived as AB's Patriots career.
Until then, let's discuss legal, non-football developments, views, and opinions here.
Until then, let's discuss legal, non-football developments, views, and opinions here.
To me, the emails kind of read as “You really think this is going work?” I could certainly be wrong of course. Just how it looks to my eyes.I’ll move this over here:
I’m confused. The lawyer cites a text message then attaches two emails. The emails also seem to reference threats from the accuser to tell his team and to tell Brown’s baby momma. So, for whatever it’s worth - and I’m not saying it’s worth anything - she appears to have not gone to the police but gone or threatened to go to his team and the mother of his kid(s).
She also cites to his chef, so I’d be interested in what (s)he says.
Wouldn't chef-diner privilege prevent them from speaking?I’ll move this over here:
I’m confused. The lawyer cites a text message then attaches two emails. The emails also seem to reference threats from the accuser to tell his team and to tell Brown’s baby momma. So, for whatever it’s worth - and I’m not saying it’s worth anything - she appears to have not gone to the police but gone or threatened to go to his team and the mother of his kid(s).
She also cites to his chef, so I’d be interested in what (s)he says.
He’s definitely trying to dissuade her and give her the “nobody is going to believe you” hook. I’m just parsing out the implications that she threatened to go to his team and his paramour, and apparently not the police. Again, not to draw conclusions, just to gather facts.To me, the emails kind of read as “You really think this is going work?” I could certainly be wrong of course. Just how it looks to my eyes.
Bad jokes in a thread about a rape accusation aside, I’d assume if they’re citing to the chef, they’re doing so after calling to check on his/her recollection and willingness to speak up.Wouldn't chef-diner privilege prevent them from speaking?
A good lawyer would. The world is full of not very good lawyers.Bad jokes in a thread about a rape accusation aside, I’d assume if they’re citing to the chef, they’re doing so after calling to check on his/her recollection and willingness to speak up.
Of course, witnesses often get flaky when it’s time to actually get on the stand or before the press.
I have no love for AB and I'm not a Patriot's Conspiracy theorist that believes "The League Is Against US" but... I have to question the timing of this lawsuit and that she went the lawsuit root. Unless of course, she tried to go the criminal route first and the proof wasn't there for the DA to take the case and this was her last form of recourse.Thanks for your perspective on this TSC, and I'm sorry that you ever had to go through something like this. Your post mirrors my thoughts exactly. In fact, I think it strengthens a civil suit if it first starts as criminal, there isn't enough evidence to pursue, and then it goes to civil where there is a lower bar to reach. The fact that this went right to a civil suit sure has the appearance of someone looking to make money off of this as their primary focus, not justice.
The issue with that is that the NFL investigation could take a year--it did with Zeke. Since he's only under a 1 year contract, I would think they'd just cut him. That they didn't makes me think that he's playing. Same as Chung (yes I know that's much different from rape).I have no love for AB and I'm not a Patriot's Conspiracy theorist that believes "The League Is Against US" but... I have to question the timing of this lawsuit and that she went the lawsuit root. Unless of course, she tried to go the criminal route first and the proof wasn't there for the DA to take the case and this was her last form of recourse.
Take the 9M hit and put him on the exempt list.
Yup.The chance that the Patriots release Brown right now for this accusation seem slim to none IMO. Belichick seems to let off the field issues handle themselves like he did with Josh Gordon. Bill seems more interested in what the player does or doesn’t do for the team.
Hernandez was arrested before the Pats cut him. I believe the timeline was only hours after, but the arrest happened first.Yup.
The Patriots security/police/whatever their called staff seem to be ahead of the 8-ball on this kind of stuff. If I recall, Hernandez was released before any credible claims even came out because the Patriots were clearly in the know. I'd assume they heard about this, did their research, and will be letting this thing play out like they tend to do.
And if they cut him, its because he deserves it.
Either way, I'll be waiting to see how the evidence shakes out, which I think the Patriots will do as well.
The model here would be the rough justice they cut with Roethlisberger. Six game suspension reduced to four. That would follow a quick and dirty “investigation” while he is on the Exempt list.The issue with that is that the NFL investigation could take a year--it did with Zeke. Since he's only under a 1 year contract, I would think they'd just cut him. That they didn't makes me think that he's playing. Same as Chung (yes I know that's much different from rape).
He is not going to be prosecuted. The incident happened 18 months ago. There is no forensic evidence in a classic he-said/she-said situation. She renewed acquaintances with him after the alleged initial assaults. Supposedly leveraged him on social media after the rape.Question for the lawyers -- it's possible that he's been extorted/blackmailed AND he really did this, right? If so, does the former mean he can't be prosecuted for the latter? Or at least make it more challenging?
The Roethlisberger case is interesting because before that rough justice, which occurred on the heels of the 2010 Georgia sexual assault investigation, there was another sexual assault allegation that led to a civil suit and the league did not place him on the exempt list or suspend him pending an investigation.The model here would be the rough justice they cut with Roethlisberger. Six game suspension reduced to four. That would follow a quick and dirty “investigation” while he is on the Exempt list.
That’s the only way this gets resolved this season.
Yes, it could be both! And both could be criminally prosecuted.Question for the lawyers -- it's possible that he's been extorted/blackmailed AND he really did this, right? If so, does the former mean he can't be prosecuted for the latter?
Strictly speaking, it does not preclude criminal prosecution. In fact, unless the local police/ prosecutors already saw this and decided not to prosecute, they're probably looking into it today. After all, it is a public anouncement of an assault. And yes, more challenging, for all the reasons you can imagine.Question for the lawyers -- it's possible that he's been extorted/blackmailed AND he really did this, right? If so, does the former mean he can't be prosecuted for the latter? Or at least make it more challenging?
One part of this equation that you did not include was Roethlisbeeger meeting with Goodell and happily kissing his ring. After that meeting, he went about fulfilling whatever vague requirements Goodell put on him to reduce the suspension. That was some time ago and the entire process has changed following Ray Rice.The model here would be the rough justice they cut with Roethlisberger. Six game suspension reduced to four. That would follow a quick and dirty “investigation” while he is on the Exempt list.
That’s the only way this gets resolved this season.
There's also a lower burden of proof in a civil case vs. a criminal case. Also doesn't have to be a unanimous vote from the jury to award a monetary settlement.Obviously speculating, but a reasonable scenario for why no cops......"professional athlete......authorities (cops/prosecutors/judges) routinely short-shrift victims (brock turner, etc).....they dont even have to charge the guy.........in a civil case the decision to go forward is MINE"
I dont know the backlog of S.D Fla., but civil cases take a much longer time to get to a trial than criminal issues. (Although the criminal case would be in state court, it would still be faster.) Sidelining him while the civil proceedings go forward is probably not a tenable approach.
No doubt its "easier" to win. I was focusing on the idea that not going to the police -- and taking the "easier" civil route -- was significant proof that the motive here is solely a shakedown. To the contrary, I think there is, unfortunately, a litany of high profile evidence that might dissuade a victim from doing so. (I understand that anecdotes are not data, but most victims are much more familiar with the former than the latter).There's also a lower burden of proof in a civil case vs. a criminal case. Also doesn't have to be a unanimous vote from the jury to award a monetary settlement.
Nothing at all. FWIW -- even if Kraft is paying the bills, the lawyer's owe all their duties to AB, not Kraft. So if, for example, Brown starts saying bad stuff about Kraft in conection with his defense, the lawyers can't go tell Kraft; nor could Kraft sit in on meetings (at least not without wrecking the attorney-client privilege).Is there anything that can keep Kraft from helping AB's case by providing additional legal firepower?
+1Is there anything that can keep Kraft from helping AB's case by providing additional legal firepower?
It was also the second time Roethlisberger had been accused of sexual assault, and the investigation that triggered the suspension was criminal in nature. The entire incident happened during the offseason, and so the NFL had the luxury of waiting until the DA's office dropped the case before making their decision.One part of this equation that you did not include was Roethlisbeeger meeting with Goodell and happily kissing his ring. After that meeting, he went about fulfilling whatever vague requirements Goodell put on him to reduce the suspension. That was some time ago and the entire process has changed following Ray Rice.
Time will tell if AB would be willing to do anything to make the NFL happy.
I posted about this last night. That my perception is that lawyers with a civil sexual assault case will typically advise their clients to make a police report. Even if it is late and has no chance. It is very hard to deal with not doing so in a cross examination context because you are susceptible to a claim that this must be a money grab and that you don’t believe he is a danger to other women. Even worse it can lead to an inference that you have something to hide or are worried about potential penalties for being untruthful to the police.Nothing at all. FWIW -- even if Kraft is paying the bills, the lawyer's owe all their duties to AB, not Kraft. So if, for example, Brown starts saying bad stuff about Kraft in conection with his defense, the lawyers can't go tell Kraft; nor could Kraft sit in on meetings (at least not without wrecking the attorney-client privilege).
I agree with much of this but there are a lot of wrinkles involved in the bolded part and it's not a one size fits all. Sometimes, if your client wants to settle, the last thing you want to do is write a complaint that is sensational, because you put a defendant in a position where he or she has little choice but to defend themselves and try to outspend you (if there is a resources difference).I'll reiterate my position - civil complaints are written with persuasion and spinning the allegations in your clients favor. This is different than your typical criminal complaint/PC/grand jury indictment because the allegations do not have to be based in fact, simply good faith belief. Allegations in civil complaints are usually salacious and crafted carefully for maximum reaction (especially in high profile cases) - and sometimes go well beyond the breaking point of reasonable inferences.
I represent people on both sides of civil matters, including employers and employees in sexual harassment matters and I would find any action to be taken as a result of a civil complaint to be beyond the pail. Its incredibly unfair to allow a civil complaint to be the basis for anything other than "we'll see when the facts come out " - the emails etc... included in this are certainly not flattering, but certainly are not admissions of anything beyond "we had sex" If you think this is bad, just read some of the petitions for divorce that get filed in your local courts. Should employers now use unverified petitions for divorce as a basis for terminating employees? Just look at the Neymar case.
This was dropped now because of all the media attention on Brown with the hope of settling quickly (this is not a comment on the merits, just simply an opportunity to try to gain leverage). I frankly don't see how a settlement is possible now given the "if settles, he was guilty" belief. The fact there was no criminal complaint ever filed is certainly not a good fact for the Plaintiff IMO.
I would be concerned about the quality of Brown's legal representation though if his lawyer really doesn't have substantial experience in these matters, especially a high profile one.
Former prosecutor, young, appointed by Trump. State court judge appointed by Scott before elevation.
All good points.I posted about this last night. That my perception is that lawyers with a civil sexual assault case will typically advise their clients to make a police report. Even if it is late and has no chance. It is very hard to deal with not doing so in a cross examination context because you are susceptible to a claim that this must be a money grab and that you don’t believe he is a danger to other women. Even worse it can lead to an inference that you have something to hide or are worried about potential penalties for being untruthful to the police.
Let the police tell you you waited too long or that there is no physical evidence or whatever they say. You can say you tried and then tell a story why the crime was so heinous that you couldn’t bring yourself to report immediately.
I am not here trying to speculate on what this all means in this case about her believability and she may have a very good story for not doing or she may even have done it. I am just giving my two cents on what I understand to be the legal strategy commonly used.
Not much different than when Tyreek Hill scores. Or Zeke Elliot.This is a tough one. On the one hand, I don't think a player should be put on the exempt list based off one civil suit accusation. On the other hand, if AB plays this weekend, the optics could be terrible for the league and the team. The Patriots might not care as much, they don't seem to let that noise bother them. For the league though, I'm picturing AB romping into the end zone, celebrating his TD, and then every media organization running a story about a player accused of rape, celebrating in the end zone five days later as though nothing happened.
Doesn’t it all depend on what he has on her? In a scenario where she was “extorting” him for money - even if he is guilty - he very well could end up clearing his name, or at least discrediting her in the eyes of the public.IMO Brown needs to figure out a way to settle.
Cat is out of the bag. He's not getting the reputation damage undone no matter what. And yes, it reeks of "guilty" but it isnt. A settlement with a committment not to cooperate with the NFL is his best play and his best chance to make this go away, at least mechanically.
This is a good summary. And as far as Rule 11 goes, you're right. The plaintiff's lawyer is not required to go out and investigate the claim to any serious degree. That his client told him what happened, that she has correspondence that arguably back it up, and that it doesn't sound insane ('he assaulted me when were were orbiting in the International Space Station") is about all you need to not get disciplined in federal court based on the Complaint.To expand slightly on GashPrex's post, someone was saying last night how Rule 11 precluded the atty from filing this without being really sure these were good claims. Let me assure you that that is deeply untrue. Getting in any kind of professional trouble via Rule 11 is incredibly hard. Further, Rule 11 does not preclude an attorney from presenting facts in the best possible light, and even arguably pushing the truth more than a little. That's not the way it should be, but it's the way it is.
I will say: this feels like a really complex relationship where Brown assaulted her in some form (let's assume, best case, that he ejaculated on her back as a "joke"), she left him, then she came back to him in hopes of getting something - a relationship, money, game, whatever - and now is unhappy with how that turned out.
So what do you do when the victim suffered an actual assault, but upon reflection decided to keep working with the accused, but then thought better of it? I think Brown may be in real trouble civilly, but this would be an extremely difficult case to win criminally.
The week of your wedding seems like a really odd time to file a lawsuit that is going to be National news.