2019-2020 Celtics Regular Season Thread

mcpickl

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Yeah, not trying to shut down discussion on the topic, it’s definitely a valid one.

I guess I see it more as a Greg Monroe situation—they wooed Monroe on the buyout market, and then quickly discovered how limited he was. After that, Monroe played only very, very situationally.

I do agree that they’ll try Kanter in a variety of roles to see if something does fit, probably to the degree that some people here get frustrated at times in the regular season.
Kanter is very different in my eyes. They had Kemba call him the second free agency opened, and offered him the only 4.7M dollars they could offer any free agent other than mimumums. I think that shows much more of a commitment to a guy than a guy they grabbed late in the season as a buyout.

They knew who he was when they signed him. I don't think they're going to turn away from him from being exactly the guy they expected when he signed. I think he's going to get his 20ish minutes every night, defense be damned.
 

DJnVa

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Kemba's last 3 games: 32.3 points, 6.0 rebounds, 5.0 assists, 43.8% three-pointers, 31 of 33 FTs
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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My only point is that we can enjoy the Celtics and NBA season thus far - and the former has been very enjoyable - but imo, its far too early to evaluate individual performances as well as that of teams.

In October of 2018, Kemba Walker shot 41.4% from three and had a TS of 61%. For the season, he recorded 35.6% and 55.8% respectively so he dropped off pretty considerably. He also got off to good starts the prior two seasons as well. That said, I would be thrilled if he was able to maintain his pace throughout the season.

And we don't need to re-litigate it but most objective NBA pundits agree that Kyrie Irving is a significantly better offensive player than Kemba Walker - the stats support that view too. For example, heading into the season Irving's career TS% is ~57.2% and his 3p% is 39% while Walker's are 53.5% and 35.8% respectively.

None of this is to say that Walker won't be a better fit and teammate for Boston. It clearly looks that way now. However my only point is that its a long season and its easy to get excited about small sample sizes. As everyone knows, teams adjust to players and schemes as the season moves along. Players get worn down or injured and, as we all know, chemistry issues may arise at any time during the year.

In short, I will refrain from forecasting the Celtics seeding and what players seasons will look like until we have a fair bit more data.
 
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InstaFace

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I'll give you another one. Lebron looks like Karl Malone at 40 trying to play guard.
He just created the game-tying buzzer-beating 3 with a great drive and kick against a double-team, followed by the game-icing 3 in OT.

Maybe the tread on his tires wears out by spring like last season, but for now he's still a force to be reckoned with.
 

RetractableRoof

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Last year was sort of like in the dead of summer when the temps are 90+ and you are driving along and get caught behind a trash truck that is just spewing that stomach turning noxious smell of rotting, disgusting waste. And watching it leak and drip that filthy mess along the road as it makes it's way in front of you.

This year has that fresh cut grass smell.

While neither situation has much by way of permanence, after getting stuck behind that garbage truck for much of the entire previous year, I think it's normal to be excited about the season still having it's fresh cut grass smell.

We know there is a long season of unknowns in front of the team. But for today, I'm going to take my shoes and socks off and walk in the grass for a bit. And hopefully neither I nor the Celtics step in anything significant while enjoying that new grass smell.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Kemba's last 3 games: 32.3 points, 6.0 rebounds, 5.0 assists, 43.8% three-pointers, 31 of 33 FTs
I had mentioned yesterday that there have only been 90 games in NBA history where a player has scored 32+ points on 7 or fewer free goals made.

As far as I can tell, Kemba joins Harden, Westbrook, and Iverson as the only players who have scored 32+ points on 8 or fewer FGs on back-to-back games. http://bkref.com/tiny/BEzUp

I don't think anyone has done it 3 times in a row.
 

Eddie Jurak

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I'm ready to dispense with the "should have gone in a different direction than Kemba" argument.
Its odd how many conclusive opinions about players, teams and the NBA landscape are formed after just ~5% of the schedule has been played.
My only point is that we can enjoy the Celtics and NBA season thus far - and the former has been very enjoyable - but imo, its far too early to evaluate individual performances as well as that of teams.

In October of 2018, Kemba Walker shot 41.4% from three and had a TS of 61%. For the season, he recorded 35.6% and 55.8% respectively so he dropped off pretty considerably. He also got off to good starts the prior two seasons as well. That said, I would be thrilled if he was able to maintain his pace throughout the season.

And we don't need to re-litigate it but most objective NBA pundits agree that Kyrie Irving is a significantly better offensive player than Kemba Walker - the stats support that view too. For example, heading into the season Irving's career TS% is ~57.2% and his 3p% is 39% while Walker's are 53.5% and 35.8% respectively.

None of this is to say that Walker won't be a better fit and teammate for Boston. It clearly looks that way now. However my only point is that its a long season and its easy to get excited about small sample sizes. As everyone knows, teams adjust to players and schemes as the season moves along. Players get worn down or injured and, as we all know, chemistry issues may arise at any time during the year.
For me, the key point here is not that Walker is better than Irving or that Walker is going to have a career season. It's that Walker is an efficient scorer and shot creator and that fills a need on this team.

And it is also true that Walker is a better fit and teammate than Mr Chemistry was. Last night's Tatum game winner was essentially the same play that the Celtics ran in a late-game situation vs Orlando last year, except that Tatum missed the shot and Mr Chemistry went postal because he didn't get the ball. It might have been Tatum's miss that triggered Irving, more than the fact that Tatum took the shot, but still not something Kemba would have done.
 

Strike4

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Last year was sort of like in the dead of summer when the temps are 90+ and you are driving along and get caught behind a trash truck that is just spewing that stomach turning noxious smell of rotting, disgusting waste. And watching it leak and drip that filthy mess along the road as it makes it's way in front of you.

This year has that fresh cut grass smell.

While neither situation has much by way of permanence, after getting stuck behind that garbage truck for much of the entire previous year, I think it's normal to be excited about the season still having it's fresh cut grass smell.

We know there is a long season of unknowns in front of the team. But for today, I'm going to take my shoes and socks off and walk in the grass for a bit. And hopefully neither I nor the Celtics step in anything significant while enjoying that new grass smell.
You can certainly see trends in these games just as last year there were trends (most of which weren't good). I think the NFL is different because of the short schedule, but I think you can definitely pick up on things that we'll probably see for most of the season over the course of 82 games.
 

DJnVa

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You can certainly see trends in these games just as last year there were trends (most of which weren't good). I think the NFL is different because of the short schedule, but I think you can definitely pick up on things that we'll probably see for most of the season over the course of 82 games.
We're also just having a little fun with the good start to the season.
 

Rook05

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From BRobb:

The differences between Walker and Boston’s former All-Star point guard demeanor were further highlighted when Kemba was asked about Tatum’s game-winner.

“That kid is so talented. I’m happy for him, and I’m happy he made that shot,” he said. “That was a huge big-time shot, and I’m happy we went to him. Hopefully, that keeps him confident, that can really just get something going for us. Unbelievable play.”
 

ggreene

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From BRobb:
“That kid is so talented. I’m happy for him, and I’m happy he made that shot,” he said. “That was a huge big-time shot, and I’m happy we went to him. Hopefully, that keeps him confident, that can really just get something going for us. Unbelievable play.”
Everything you hear about Walker is good. As a fan you almost have to pinch yourself to make sure your not dreaming.
 

Jimbodandy

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From BRobb:

The differences between Walker and Boston’s former All-Star point guard demeanor were further highlighted when Kemba was asked about Tatum’s game-winner.

“That kid is so talented. I’m happy for him, and I’m happy he made that shot,” he said. “That was a huge big-time shot, and I’m happy we went to him. Hopefully, that keeps him confident, that can really just get something going for us. Unbelievable play.”
Watched the last play replay a couple of times last night, wondering what the other options were doing. Couldn't help noticing the total joy that burst out of Kemba when that shot went in.

I wasn't driving the bus taking Kyrie out of town, but it's impossible not to see the stark difference in attitude between the two players. More importantly, you can't help but notice how much guys are pulling for each other.

Yes, it's early, and they're winning. And it's the Knicks. But the ride will be fun. On a night when they're missing two bigs and JB, and Marcus had a pretty meh game, they pulled it out and had fun doing it.
 

Montana Fan

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Next 5 for the C's - @Cavs, @Hornets, @Spurs, H-Dallas, H-Wiz. All games that they should have a shot at winning.

Looking forward to seeing Jaylen back.

Did Kanter really get beat up so bad versus Philly that he has missed the next 4 games? Would like to see him back with the second unit soon.

Queue up the IT4 tribute vid. It was the highlight of last season.

View: https://youtu.be/Yh6Zc7L1Ax4
 

Minneapolis Millers

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Some people talk about being a leader. But most true leaders just do it, naturally. Kyrie's the former, Kemba appears to be the latter.
 

lovegtm

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I'm usually positive, but that was some ugly-ass offense for most of the game. They really miss Brown's rim attacks, but they really have poor flow a lot of the time regardless. Being able to keep 2 of Brown/Hayward/Kemba/Tatum on the floor at all times should help, but this team is going to be an offensive work-in-progress for awhile.
 

amarshal2

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I'm usually positive, but that was some ugly-ass offense for most of the game. They really miss Brown's rim attacks, but they really have poor flow a lot of the time regardless. Being able to keep 2 of Brown/Hayward/Kemba/Tatum on the floor at all times should help, but this team is going to be an offensive work-in-progress for awhile.
I actually thought it was better in a lot of ways than the other games. They had some really nice interior passing (they didn’t always finish but I think it’ll come). Tatum didn’t force things at the rim as much and brought the ball back out. It looked like one of the more efficient games for the starters in a set offense. They took 29 free throws!

The difference between this game and the others is they got killed on the glass (16!!!-3 o-boards; Rob and Kanter doesn’t help) and they actually lost the turnover battle instead of having have a huge advantage as they turned it over more and caused fewer turnovers.They exacerbated it by not capitalizing on their turnovers. They actually got out scored off of turnovers last night.

Another emerging theme is the reserves not scoring. Jaylen out hasn’t helped. Carsen hasn’t found comfort coming off the bench yet. They’re not playing Green. Grant was good last night offensively but is 0/the season from three. The Celtics shot 32% from 3 last night but if you take out the bench they were over 40%. The bench is young, they’re going to improve.

And despite all that, they won. I saw progress last night among the starters in the half court offense, which has been the biggest area of concern IMO.
 
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Jimbodandy

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The offense is still a work in progress, no doubt. They only seem to have a few actions in play right now. In this basic of an offense, you need guys that can create an advantage. Last night that was Kemba and Tatum, with GH a couple of times. Lack of Brown hurts there. Lack of an easy few possessions dumping it into Kanter also hurts. It will improve with time. Once they can successfully introduce more actions, you should see more guys able to contribute.
 
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benhogan

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[/QUOTE]
I'm usually positive, but that was some ugly-ass offense for most of the game. They really miss Brown's rim attacks, but they really have poor flow a lot of the time regardless. Being able to keep 2 of Brown/Hayward/Kemba/Tatum on the floor at all times should help, but this team is going to be an offensive work-in-progress for awhile.
Love what I'm seeing from Gordon and Tatum from 3. Kemba drawing fouls, and subsequently draining FTs

Jaylen makes a huge difference in creating turnovers, transition baskets, and rim runs in the halfcourt offense. Smart, was still stuck in Buck glee, and didn't play well.

I'd expect the bench will see quite a bit of improvement when Kanter returns. Also, Edwards is clearly uncomfortable and just needs a few to fall to get some confidence. Grant will start hitting 3pt shots. When those guys start to hit from the outside that will open up the lane for Kanter to operate.

Theis was solid on both sides and 4th string Center Vincent Poirier even hit a mid-range 2.
 

lovegtm

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The offense is still a work in progress, no doubt. They only seem to have a few actions in play right now. In this basic of an offense, you need guys that can create an advantage. Last night that was Kemba and Tatum, with GH a couple of times. Lack of Brown hurts there. Lack of an easy few possessions dumping it into Kanter also hurts. It will improve with time. Once they can successfully introduce more actions, you should see more guys able to contribute.
Yeah, fair. This is why everything looks better when they just let Kemba be Kemba, but I understand that that doesn’t maximize the team’s ceiling.


I sort of just want to skip to the part of the season where they’ve successfully developed offensive chemistry and have some interesting actions.
 

lexrageorge

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In this very short season, they are right in the middle of the pack in offensive points per possession. What's hurting them is that they are 3rd from the bottom in 2 point FG%, which I would expect to regress upwards closer to the mean as the season goes on.

They are 9th in allowed points per possession, although 2 games against the Knicks is skewing that number a bit.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I'm usually positive, but that was some ugly-ass offense for most of the game. They really miss Brown's rim attacks, but they really have poor flow a lot of the time regardless. Being able to keep 2 of Brown/Hayward/Kemba/Tatum on the floor at all times should help, but this team is going to be an offensive work-in-progress for awhile.
This gets at my overall concern, which is the offense. I suspect that, like last year, they are going to struggle to score in spots and that it could lead to some brutal stretches of game(s), compounded by their potential rebounding issues. Its my hope that Brown, Tatum and Hayward all continue to show improvement in their respective play because that fixes a lot of things. However, right now its a concern. Aside from Granite, I am not sure what we can expect from rookies on sporadic minutes so I don't know what to make of Arsen yet but anything he can give them is icing.

Finally, I am with Retractableroof in that I am just enjoying the nice summer day (aptly put). Walker appears to be a real chemistry upgrade for now and that alone makes the games more fun than last season.
 

Jimbodandy

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This gets at my overall concern, which is the offense. I suspect that, like last year, they are going to struggle to score in spots and that it could lead to some brutal stretches of game(s), compounded by their potential rebounding issues. Its my hope that Brown, Tatum and Hayward all continue to show improvement in their respective play because that fixes a lot of things. However, right now its a concern. Aside from Granite, I am not sure what we can expect from rookies on sporadic minutes so I don't know what to make of Arsen yet but anything he can give them is icing.

Finally, I am with Retractableroof in that I am just enjoying the nice summer day (aptly put). Walker appears to be a real chemistry upgrade for now and that alone makes the games more fun than last season.
From a secondary guy POV, I think that we can expect both Willaimses to get better garbage points as the offense matures. And Edwards will definitely get better looks off better actions. They have tried to run a few things for him, and it has been poorly executed. He has then forced a bunch of bad shots, just trying to contribute. One the kinks get worked out of those designed Edwards looks, he should bring nice scoring off the bench.
 

Big John

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I didn't think they played particularly well at either end. But they found a way. This was a game they probably would have lost last year.
 

Eddie Jurak

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The units with the Semi+Grant frontcourt plus one starter are tough to watch on offense, especially against a big team that can rebound.

I do think Kanter will be able to provide some reliable second unit offense and rebounding, which will matter. And of course, having Jaylen back in the mix means that the Celtics can almost always have a couple of guys who can score on the floor.
 

benhogan

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The units with the Semi+Grant frontcourt plus one starter are tough to watch on offense, especially against a big team that can rebound.

I do think Kanter will be able to provide some reliable second unit offense and rebounding, which will matter. And of course, having Jaylen back in the mix means that the Celtics can almost always have a couple of guys who can score on the floor.
Agreed, putting Semi with Grant right now is tough to stomach. Brad is trying lots of different rotations, so don't be surprised if we see odd pairings until the New Year. To put it nicely, Semi is offensively challenged. I've kind of moved past expecting anything more than screens, ball movement, and no TOs. He seems to get lost offensively and his 3pt shooting stinks. He's an effective defender against Giannis, Simmons, Bron, Kawhi, Harden that's his calling card. Since all roads to a Championship lead through those guys, there is no harm in keeping Semi at the end of the bench. I believe Jaylen/Smart can also effectively guard those players, so Semi is deep depth.

I'm much more optimistic about Grant developing into a consistent 3pt shooter (81% FTs last season). He just reeks of a smart, hard worker. He also seems more capable of getting offensive boards/tip outs then Semi. So I have Grant higher on my board.
 

Eddie Jurak

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So I have Grant higher on my board.
Well, yes. Grant is a well rounded basketball player, who, although not a guy you go to for points, can already contribute at both ends. It’s just that running him out there at C and with Semi at PF exacerbated his limitations.
 

HomeRunBaker

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The units with the Semi+Grant frontcourt plus one starter are tough to watch on offense, especially against a big team that can rebound.
Pretty much every team that loses its best offensive player from their second unit is going to be tough to watch. There is a reason why most of these players are on the second unit. Once Kanter returns this shouldn't be as much of an issue.
 

NomarsFool

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I love the defensive intensity, but I am getting concerned about their inability to clean up the defensive glass. Too many missed shots are turning into easy putbacks by the other team. A number of players have increased their rebounding numbers (Hayward, Tatum) but I'm wondering if a bit that is just because the rebounding (with Kanter out) from the 5 has been so minimal. In other words, now that they don't have to "compete" with Baynes or Horford for rebounds, they are naturally getting more boards.

I think this will be the 'Sophie's Choice' of the Celtics all season. Have great defense and force the other team to put up a poor shot that the Celtics don't rebound OR have poor defense but be able to clean up the shots the other team does miss. Essentially Kanter vs. the Williamses all season.
 

Eddie Jurak

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I think this will be the 'Sophie's Choice' of the Celtics all season. Have great defense and force the other team to put up a poor shot that the Celtics don't rebound OR have poor defense but be able to clean up the shots the other team does miss. Essentially Kanter vs. the Williamses all season.
To an extent. Having Jaylen and Kanter and Rob out all at the same time exacerbates the problem.
 

lovegtm

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I think this will be the 'Sophie's Choice' of the Celtics all season. Have great defense and force the other team to put up a poor shot that the Celtics don't rebound OR have poor defense but be able to clean up the shots the other team does miss. Essentially Kanter vs. the Williamses all season.
Except that without Kanter, but with Brown and TL, they completely owned the Knicks on the glass the week before.
 

amarshal2

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Except that without Kanter, but with Brown and TL, they completely owned the Knicks on the glass the week before.
Looking at the box score; they definitely didn’t completely own the knicks on the glass. The team they owned was the Raptors.

I’m not ready to worry about the rebounding. Not only are they going to get Kanter back but the point of the most of this season is to develop the team. Rob has a bad habit of rotating to help D when he shouldn’t, abandoning his man and defensive positioning. It’s top 2 things he needs to work on (along with his angles on guys cutting to the basket). He’s finally going to get real minutes and should improve. They were ok against the Knicks when Theis was in.

I do think putting in Grant at the 5 against many bigger opponents is going to come with some bad rebounding stats.
 

NomarsFool

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Except that without Kanter, but with Brown and TL, they completely owned the Knicks on the glass the week before.
The first half of that Knicks game looked exactly like this second Knicks game. I don't know the numbers, but my memory was that they were very similar - great intensity, and poor rebounding. That changed in the second half, of course.