2019-2020 Celtics Regular Season Thread

benhogan

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What's the hit on releasing Edwards? Didn't he have a multi-year deal?
While he's clearly had a terrible rough first half of a rookie season, I'd be mildly surprised if they cut bait with Edwards this quickly. That being said I have no idea who would go if they brought in a buyout candidate.

I would have liked if Danny dealt 2 or 3 of the bench players + a pick for a player to get better and gain roster flexibility for the rest of the season. PLUS they may face a roster crunch this summer (mentioned in the article linked below).

 
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benhogan

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After the Hawks tonight, the Celtic schedule gets tough sandwiched around the All-Star break.

6 of 8 on the road and the two home games are the Clippers/Rockets.

Toronto, OTOH, has 6/8 at home against lesser competition.

Miami plays 6 of 8 on the road but 7 of those games are against teams with sub-.500 record

The Heat just got better by adding AI, this feels like a 3-horse race for the #2 seed
 
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wade boggs chicken dinner

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I would bet the Cs are using the buyout market to shop for an end of the bench big and then maybe another wing. But standing pat tells you that they have determined that what they have is superior to what they may have brought in given that they would have to send out or waive a player to make room.
There are financial considerations in addition to talent and fit. DA said that he's not really willing to waive a guy with a guaranteed contract to bring someone else in. DA isn't going to get anyone unless he's a clear upgrade and I'm not sure who that would be.
 

RedOctober3829

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After the Hawks tonight, the Celtic schedule gets tough sandwiched around the All-Star break.

6 of 8 on the road and the two home games are the Clippers/Rockets.

Toronto, OTOH, has 6/8 at home against lesser competition.

Miami plays 6 of 8 on the road but 7 of those games are against teams with sub-.500 record

The Heat just got better by adding AI, this feels like a 3-horse race for the #2 seed
Looking at the standings, it's wild to think after what went down on July 1 that at this point in the season the Celtics would be 5 games up on the Sixers.
 

benhogan

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Looking at the standings, it's wild to think after what went down on July 1 that at this point in the season the Celtics would be 5 games up on the Sixers.
Major outperformance from the Celtics, this season.

OTOH, the Sixers are appalling to watch. Just take a gander at Wade's highlight reel. That being said their schedule gets real easy at the end. The last month they mostly play teams that will be playing for the future and tanking. If they keep their head now and don't do anything rash (like fire BB) I could see them regaining their momentum by pasting some cupcakes heading into the playoffs
 

DJnVa

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Isaiah Thomas, G — Los Angeles Clippers
Every Celtics fan lost their mind when they started seeing reports that a trade was in the works for their former hero. He ended up on the Clippers a few minutes later. Then the hope was back on when The Athletic’s David Aldridge reported the Clippers will not be keeping Thomas
Thomas makes sense on this roster next to Brad Wanamaker, providing ball handling and shooting that can complement Wanamaker’s transition play and defensive utility.
The biggest reason why Thomas would be a welcome addition? He ranks 11th in the NBA in points per possession as a spot-up shooter per Synergy, just ahead of Miami’s rookie sensation Tyler Herro
 

benhogan

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Jimbodandy

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Call me unsentimental but I'm a firm no thanks on IT. Defense matters too much to the identity of this team. CBS has done a terrific job hiding Kanters' shortcomings. IT's defense is a bridge too far
Agreed. I love IT. Love.

But if he fell out of the sky onto the bench right now, where does he fit in the playoff rotation? Big 5 + Big 2. Then BW and GW (I assume GW laps SO by YE). That's 9. Nobody else is seeing the floor barring injury or foul trouble (even then).

The IT > CE takes are nonsense. CE isn't seeing the floor either.
 

lovegtm

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IT is really, really, really bad now. This is almost like discussing whether Allen Iverson coming out of retirement would be an upgrade.
 

NomarsFool

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Wanamaker has good transition play? I actually think it is one of his weaknesses.

Good defense, good ball handler, good catch and shooter.
 

bankshot1

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About the ony role I could see for IT in the post-season, is an instant offense type guy in a game the Celts are down 15 and they need 3 quick 3s to getback into the game. If he'd accept a limited end of the bench role player role , I could see it. But the challenge on D is inescapable if he were play big minutes.
 

Jimbodandy

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Wanamaker has good transition play? I actually think it is one of his weaknesses.

Good defense, good ball handler, good catch and shooter.
You keep bringing this up.

I get why. His heat-seeking missile act, when he has Brown and/or Tatum on the wing is weird. But the numbers posted in this forum already showed that his finishing rate is high. The eye test doesn't work in the Case of the Fastbreak Hun, Wanamaker.
 

NomarsFool

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Finishing rate isn't the right statistic. It just isn't because that is all his layups. What I don't like is him leading the fast break and having his layup get blocked. I'm pretty sure it was twice in the last week. That's not going to show up in his overall finishing rate, since those things don't happen all that often. It's just something I think he could improve upon. Overall, I think he looks for his own shot a bit more than I'd like. But, he does a lot of things well for a backup point guard on a very team friendly contract.
 

benhogan

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Finishing rate isn't the right statistic. It just isn't because that is all his layups. What I don't like is him leading the fast break and having his layup get blocked. I'm pretty sure it was twice in the last week. That's not going to show up in his overall finishing rate, since those things don't happen all that often. It's just something I think he could improve upon. Overall, I think he looks for his own shot a bit more than I'd like. But, he does a lot of things well for a backup point guard on a very team friendly contract.
My eye test sees a strong Brad trying to draw contact in transition/at the rim. A 90% FT shooter

It's not his fault, just go to the game thread, you'll notice the C's get screwed by the refs on a nightly basis;)
 

Jimbodandy

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Finishing rate isn't the right statistic. It just isn't because that is all his layups. What I don't like is him leading the fast break and having his layup get blocked. I'm pretty sure it was twice in the last week. That's not going to show up in his overall finishing rate, since those things don't happen all that often. It's just something I think he could improve upon. Overall, I think he looks for his own shot a bit more than I'd like. But, he does a lot of things well for a backup point guard on a very team friendly contract.
I know that he was blocked twice in the last week. He also has a shitload of unexpectedly successful finishes all year.

He drives me nuts too, but he hasn't been Semi at the rim. He's finishing them, your recency bias notwithstanding.
 

mcpickl

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Finishing rate isn't the right statistic. It just isn't because that is all his layups. What I don't like is him leading the fast break and having his layup get blocked. I'm pretty sure it was twice in the last week. That's not going to show up in his overall finishing rate, since those things don't happen all that often. It's just something I think he could improve upon. Overall, I think he looks for his own shot a bit more than I'd like. But, he does a lot of things well for a backup point guard on a very team friendly contract.
Blocked shots are counted as misses in finishing rate. They are already counted against him

He's at 56% inside 5 feet this year. A bit above average for a point guard.

For comparison, Kemba is also at 56%, Smart at 46%.
 

lovegtm

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Blocked shots are counted as misses in finishing rate. They are already counted against him

He's at 56% inside 5 feet this year. A bit above average for a point guard.

For comparison, Kemba is also at 56%, Smart at 46%.
I think NomarsFool meant that he wanted to see transition layups separated out from all layups, for the purposes of his critique.

(My guess is Wanamaker still looks fine there.)
 

mcpickl

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I think NomarsFool meant that he wanted to see transition layups separated out from all layups, for the purposes of his critique.

(My guess is Wanamaker still looks fine there.)
Ah, that I don't have the energy to do.

He can look at all of the Wanamaker shots here.


Don't want to go through the whole league one by one.
 

lovegtm

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Was Brad high for the last minute of the OKC game? I get the idea of a taller guy take the ball up to discourage traps but a) CP3 was on Tatum b) Hayward is a better ball-handler/passer. Then once you're past half-court, the ball really needs to be with Kemba or Hayward.

Tatum and Brown also kept driving into the lane way too early. You're up 9 with 1:10 left and the ball; this isn't rocket science.

It's weird that that was the plan given that it seemed specifically called by the sideline and not improvised. Live and learn, I guess, but the thought process was bizarre and poor. You have Kemba Walker and Gordon Hayward, and the clock. Don't complicate things.
 

128

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Was Brad high for the last minute of the OKC game? I get the idea of a taller guy take the ball up to discourage traps but a) CP3 was on Tatum b) Hayward is a better ball-handler/passer. Then once you're past half-court, the ball really needs to be with Kemba or Hayward.

Tatum and Brown also kept driving into the lane way too early. You're up 9 with 1:10 left and the ball; this isn't rocket science.

It's weird that that was the plan given that it seemed specifically called by the sideline and not improvised. Live and learn, I guess, but the thought process was bizarre and poor. You have Kemba Walker and Gordon Hayward, and the clock. Don't complicate things.
Smart was also on the court at that point, right? He's another reliable ballhandler (and free-throw shooter). That was not Brad's and the C's finest moment, but hopefully they learned from it.
 

lovegtm

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Smart was also on the court at that point, right? He's another reliable ballhandler (and free-throw shooter). That was not Brad's and the C's finest moment, but hopefully they learned from it.
I think they were playing top 4+Theis, and then brought Smart in after the repeated disasters.

My only guess is that Brad thought the game was in hand and wanted Tatum to get experience in that spot, and Tatum clearly wasn’t ready for it.
 

chilidawg

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Ah, that I don't have the energy to do.

He can look at all of the Wanamaker shots here.


Don't want to go through the whole league one by one.
I come away with that impressed by Wanamaker's agressiveness. Sure he gets a few blocked, but the success rate is pretty good overall.

Unrelated note, sure was nice to see TL in some of those clips, really looking forward to his return.
 

benhogan

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Was Brad high for the last minute of the OKC game? I get the idea of a taller guy take the ball up to discourage traps but a) CP3 was on Tatum b) Hayward is a better ball-handler/passer. Then once you're past half-court, the ball really needs to be with Kemba or Hayward.

Tatum and Brown also kept driving into the lane way too early. You're up 9 with 1:10 left and the ball; this isn't rocket science.

It's weird that that was the plan given that it seemed specifically called by the sideline and not improvised. Live and learn, I guess, but the thought process was bizarre and poor. You have Kemba Walker and Gordon Hayward, and the clock. Don't complicate things.
With Paul on Tatum, he should not be bringing the ball up the court, having JT handle the ball was perplexing. and JB should not be on the floor.

Up 9 with ~a minute they should have Kemba, Smart, Wanamaker, JT, and Hayward on the floor. Those 5 are strongest with the ball, solid defensively, good perimeter defense, good FT shooters. That should be their "up a couple of possessions, less than a minute" lineup IMO
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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With Paul on Tatum, he should not be bringing the ball up the court, having JT handle the ball was perplexing. and JB should not be on the floor.

Up 9 with ~a minute they should have Kemba, Smart, Wanamaker, JT, and Hayward on the floor. Those 5 are strongest with the ball, solid defensively, good perimeter defense, good FT shooters. That should be their "up a couple of possessions, less than a minute" lineup IMO
Up 9 with about a minute left in a February game on the road before the All-Star break? Yes, Brad should have JB on the court and no he should manage this like it was the game 7 of a playoffs. Guys need game situational experience. It's one of Brad's strength IMO - figuring how to gradually give guys more responsibility for their development.
 

benhogan

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Up 9 with about a minute left in a February game on the road before the All-Star break? Yes, Brad should have JB on the court and no he should manage this like it was the game 7 of a playoffs. Guys need game situational experience. It's one of Brad's strength IMO - figuring how to gradually give guys more responsibility for their development.
I'm all for development, game experience and agree that's one of Brad's strengths.

Putting in a stout PG that can handle the ball, shoots FTs at 91% in the closing minute is a pretty good option. I'd like to see a closing group developed in-game more. YMMV
 

lovegtm

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Couple vids I did on moments/themes that interested me in the OKC game. I only did a couple examples, but I really like Brad's 2nd half adjustment to use Kemba more in a "dynamic spacing" role to open up isos and driving lanes for other guys. It had the double benefit of getting out of the passive 3-happy 1st half offense, and also not having Kemba get swallowed up by length inside over and over.

View: https://youtu.be/5iD8RBJRJ1g


View: https://youtu.be/3LcwjG2C8c0


View: https://youtu.be/cEV9Sk7Qmfs
 

chilidawg

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Thanks, I got bored of the only highlights out there being scoring, so trying to do some different stuff that interests me. Let me know if anyone has theme requests.
Really appreciate them also. How about a Marcus Smart defensive compilation. I'm always curious as to why his advanced stats are relatively mediocre, yet winning plays are what he's known for. Is his defense consistently good throughout a game?
 

benhogan

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Thanks, I got bored of the only highlights out there being scoring, so trying to do some different stuff that interests me. Let me know if anyone has theme requests.
Yea, the 1st/defensive thread is tremendous. Anything with defense. Maybe show superstars that do a good or bad job on on-ball and help defense (if you want to create a following on YouTube).

Great job!

Tatum compilation. Last year vs this year would be telling :)
 

lovegtm

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Yea, the 1st/defensive thread is tremendous. Anything with defense. Maybe show superstars that do a good or bad job on on-ball and help defense (if you want to create a following on YouTube).

Great job!

Tatum compilation. Last year vs this year would be telling :)
Ohhh, I like the Tatum before and after idea.
 

lovegtm

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Really appreciate them also. How about a Marcus Smart defensive compilation. I'm always curious as to why his advanced stats are relatively mediocre, yet winning plays are what he's known for. Is his defense consistently good throughout a game?
I actually want to do this from the opposite angle: His impact on defense doesn't seem quite as good either eye-test or stat-wise as I'd expect, and I want to see how it stands up on a deeper dive.
 

benhogan

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Ohhh, I like the Tatum before and after idea.
There are so many highlights and analytics-based around offense (scoring, rebounding, TS%, assists, etc). Defensive highlights (other than blocks/steals) are completely ignored.

Your defensive off-ball analysis was spot on and is rarely seen. You have something interesting there for the junkies
 

lexrageorge

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There is little chance Wannamker is going to get key time at the closing minutes of a tight game over Jaylen Brown.
 

benhogan

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There is little chance Wannamker is going to get key time at the closing minutes of a tight game over Jaylen Brown.
When the other team is in foul mode, in the last minute, I like the idea of putting a plus ball handler and the teams' best FT shooter on the floor.

My take is not really groundbreaking
 

Cesar Crespo

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When the other team is in foul mode, in the last minute, I like the idea of putting a plus ball handler and the teams' best FT shooter on the floor.

My take is not really groundbreaking
If the C's are protecting the lead, I personally go with Wanamaker over Theis or Kanter in that situation rather than replace Brown. Your point remains valid though. I was making this same point a week or so ago about how it doesn't always matter who the best overall player is. It matters who's best for the scenario presented. If you need a 3 pointer in the last couple seconds of the game and you have Kyle Korver on your bench, he's in the game and Smart is not.

There's a lot of players on the C's team that won't get much burn in the playoffs, but they'll play in certain situations. Hopefully they are up to it.
 

Jimbodandy

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There are so many highlights and analytics-based around offense (scoring, rebounding, TS%, assists, etc). Defensive highlights (other than blocks/steals) are completely ignored.

Your defensive off-ball analysis was spot on and is rarely seen. You have something interesting there for the junkies
Word. I'm only subscribe to a handful of YouTube channels, but I would watch these at an unhealthy level.

It's not something that you get from TV ever. Some people try, but they usually focus on offense or on ball D.
 

Devizier

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I actually want to do this from the opposite angle: His impact on defense doesn't seem quite as good either eye-test or stat-wise as I'd expect, and I want to see how it stands up on a deeper dive.
One of the things that jump out about Hayward/Tatum defense is they don't commit a lot of fouls:

Hayward is at 1.9/36 (~24th in league if he qualified) and Tatum at 2.2/36 (45th in league).
Jaylen's 3.1/36 and Smart's 2.9/36 are much more average, by league standards.

Hard to read too much into fouling because so much has to do with role and scheme. Besides, the leaderboard is absolutely loaded with matadors like Trae Young. But these numbers tend to follow my eye-test / biases as it seems like Jaylen and Smart get called on reaches, etc. more often.
 

benhogan

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If the C's are protecting the lead, I personally go with Wanamaker over Theis or Kanter in that situation rather than replace Brown. Your point remains valid though.
There's a lot of players on the C's team that won't get much burn in the playoffs, but they'll play in certain situations. Hopefully they are up to it.
Exactly. Its completely situational based, I'm not saying Wanamaker is one of their 5 best players or 9 most important. Brad has a specific role and that's one of the few situations where he is a ++ option.

With 1:20 left, Celtics have the ball, up 9. You go situational, OKC is going to try to steal the ball or foul, they had 3 PGs and a small wing on the floor. You match that with 3 PGs and 2 wings that can shoot FTs. Smart also should have been on the floor. He wasn't until :22. Once again good ballhandler, strong defense, good FT shooter.

Not really some groundbreaking analysis here, I'm surprised there is pushback
 
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lovegtm

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I feel fine about that game (nearly Freudian-slipped "gimmick", which is what Houston is).

There are some interesting moments from the game, and a lot of good defensive stuff I'll get to, but I'm mostly glad that it's unlikely we see Houston again.

I think the Celtics match up fine with them; I just hate watching them play. All the criticisms are accurate, and they deserve all the bad karma they get. Harden and D'Antoni's legacy will be regular season numbers and postseason chokes. It's not accurate, but it's richly, richly deserved. They beshit basketball.

I'm also constantly surprised at how short a leash officials give Kemba, relative to other stars.
 

NomarsFool

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They hung with them for a long time, and had a legit chance to win the game until Houston pulled away based on their crap antics. So, part of me is more disgusted because I was emotionally invested in a game they eventually lost, I'm also encouraged they were in it as long as they were. I would have liked to see them try and impose their will on the Rockets more than the other way around, but it's hard to gameplan too much for a random one off game in a series of every other day games. I'm pretty sure that in the extremely unlikely event that they faced them in the Finals, they'd be able to come up with a game plan to beat them.
 

chilidawg

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I feel fine about that game (nearly Freudian-slipped "gimmick", which is what Houston is).

There are some interesting moments from the game, and a lot of good defensive stuff I'll get to, but I'm mostly glad that it's unlikely we see Houston again.

I think the Celtics match up fine with them; I just hate watching them play. All the criticisms are accurate, and they deserve all the bad karma they get. Harden and D'Antoni's legacy will be regular season numbers and postseason chokes. It's not accurate, but it's richly, richly deserved. They beshit basketball.

I'm also constantly surprised at how short a leash officials give Kemba, relative to other stars.
For me the two downsides to Houston are Harden's endless parades to the foul line and D'Antoni's endless whining about how they don't get enough calls. I've got no problem with the small ball approach, in fact I like diversity in the league with different strategies, and wouldn't call it a gimmick. And I enjoy Westbrook's game, he plays with an energy and ferocity I respect.
 

lovegtm

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For me the two downsides to Houston are Harden's endless parades to the foul line and D'Antoni's endless whining about how they don't get enough calls. I've got no problem with the small ball approach, in fact I like diversity in the league with different strategies, and wouldn't call it a gimmick. And I enjoy Westbrook's game, he plays with an energy and ferocity I respect.
The small-ball part is awesome and interesting.

The foul part is the gimmick for me. That and their ridiculous report they sent to the league about officiating in the 2018 playoffs. It feels like their goal is to be the first team to litigate its way to a title.