2019-2020 Celtics Regular Season Thread

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
6,160
Kiev, Ukraine
Thinking about the win over Philly, I am wondering if Kemba being out sort of helped them in one distinct way: in meant that they didn't give a single minute to a player under 6'3", and, of course, Marcus Smart is way better than your typical 6'3" in defending bigger players. That meant that Jaylen got a lot more of his time at guard than he would have if Kemba were playing.

Does being bigger (and more competitive against size) in the point and wing part of the lineup help compensate for being undersized at C and throughout the lineup, as the Celtics are whent hey match up with Philly?
I wondered the same, but I think the much bigger deal was that not being on a B2B let them play with the intensity you need to to compete with Embiid. Theis was insanely active, help defense was on-point and unpredictable, and they were able to shrink the floor better.

I know no one likes B2Bs as an excuse, but there's a reason they don't do them in the playoffs. It makes a really, really big difference for someone like Theis, who is being asked to go out there for 12 rounds of combat basically.
 

the moops

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 19, 2016
2,392
Saint Paul, MN
Probably Semi, but it doesn't really matter. They're both bad options.

If either one of them are in their playoff rotation, it won't be a long postseason.

I'd be really surprised in the Celtics don't upgrade that spot.
Semi and Grant are 9th and 10th on the team in terms of minutes per game. And they are absolutely fine in that roll and you won't find much of an upgrade on those spots around the league. Their minutes in playoff series will be determined by the opponent.

Look around the league at guys who are 9th or 10th man on their team. You will find a whole lot of players who offer less than our guys
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
6,160
Kiev, Ukraine
The below is point differential against top 10 NetRtg opponents. Celtics are by far the best team in the league against elite competition--it hasn't been particularly close, even with injuries.

I'd guess that a big part of this is the energy required to play their defense, and the fact that guys like Jaylen put in way more defensive effort against good teams.

 

bigq

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
4,380
Recent blow out wins against Philadelphia and the Lakers are certainly boosting the point differential. The Celtics do generally play to the level of their competition when matched up against top ten teams which shows up in their small number of lopsided losses in those games. Their offensive versatility combined with high energy defense makes them a tough matchup for any team. I’m really looking forward to seeing this Celtics team in the playoffs. If healthy they seem poised for a deep run of highly entertaining playoff basketball.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
6,160
Kiev, Ukraine
Recent blow out wins against Philadelphia and the Lakers are certainly boosting the point differential. The Celtics do generally play to the level of their competition when matched up against top ten teams which shows up in their small number of lopsided losses in those games. Their offensive versatility combined with high energy defense makes them a tough matchup for any team. I’m really looking forward to seeing this Celtics team in the playoffs. If healthy they seem poised for a deep run of highly entertaining playoff basketball.
Sure, although take away any team's big wins against good comp and they get worse (Bucks beat the Clippers by 18 in a game where Kawhi didn't check Giannis, for example).

I'm getting excited about the playoffs, but between the glut of picks this spring and the need for shooting, I want to see a move before the deadline. They're too good to not go all-in for a moderate price imo.
 

benhogan

Baynes Hogan (pending trade)
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
8,509
Santa Monica
Sure, although take away any team's big wins against good comp and they get worse (Bucks beat the Clippers by 18 in a game where Kawhi didn't check Giannis, for example).

I'm getting excited about the playoffs, but between the glut of picks this spring and the need for shooting, I want to see a move before the deadline. They're too good to not go all-in for a moderate price imo.
agreed, they are too close to not add that shooter, with the roster littered with young players. Even a mild overpay (like adding a late 1st) would not be criminal.

Only a couple teams would need to have bad injury luck for the Celtics to pull a Raptor Championship
 

bigq

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
4,380
Agree that Danny should explore a roster addition to improve the team. I would guess he is testing the waters. It would not surprise me though if no move is made. If Kanter and TL can come back and are healthy I think the team as currently constituted has a puncher’s chance against any of the top teams in the league. Maybe too big an if with respect to TL though as he seems to be made of glass.
 

Devizier

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 3, 2000
10,989
Somewhere
I'm getting excited about the playoffs, but between the glut of picks this spring and the need for shooting, I want to see a move before the deadline. They're too good to not go all-in for a moderate price imo.
Aside from Bertans and Bjelca, is there anyone else the Celtics could get? Market looks thin, especially for guards.
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
11,135
BSJ had an article today on cheaper (salary wise) possibilities. Among the names, Burks, Glenn Robinson, Dotson, Reggie Bullock, Jordan McRae, Malik Beasley, Luke Kennard
When is Kennard expecting to return? I'd like him or Beasley depending on price.
 

mcpickl

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 23, 2007
3,305
Semi and Grant are 9th and 10th on the team in terms of minutes per game. And they are absolutely fine in that roll and you won't find much of an upgrade on those spots around the league. Their minutes in playoff series will be determined by the opponent.

Look around the league at guys who are 9th or 10th man on their team. You will find a whole lot of players who offer less than our guys
Come playoff time, if they're lucky enough to be 100% healthy, their top 7 are Kemba/Jaylen/Tatum/Hayward/Smart and Theis/Kanter at center.

So your 8th guy has to come from Wanamaker/Semi/Grant.

If you think that's enough, great. I don't. I think they can easily, and cheaply, find an upgrade to those three guys.

Now if they're not 100% healthy, good luck making a run with 2 or more of those guys in your rotation.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
31,831
I doubt they go for that--he's not even an upgrade on Semi in terms of spacing, and definitely not when you factor in defense.

They really need a difference-making shooter.
There aren't many difference making shooters who are rumored to be available. Bjelica is linked with the Lakers but most trade chatter is from fan blogposts saying that he would be a good fit for Boston. I like him though his defensive limitations woukd drive some around here crazy. However his contract is more expensive and the extra year of control means that he will command more of a return.

Back to Burks, he is not great by any stretch but I disagree about him not being an upgrade on Semi in terms of offensive spacing. They are both shooting at around the same percentages from the field and from deep. The difference is that Burks can create his own shot regularly and is putting up his numbers on much higher usage/attempts.

A guy like him isn't being brought in because he is a clear all around upgrade- he would be acquired for a very specific purpose. That would be as a credible second/third scoring option and playmaker when the Cs are resting their starters. Again, he is also an expiring and is dirt cheap.
 
Last edited:

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
39,123
The below is point differential against top 10 NetRtg opponents. Celtics are by far the best team in the league against elite competition--it hasn't been particularly close, even with injuries.
I'm sorry, I've been told we fatten up on bad teams.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
6,160
Kiev, Ukraine
There aren't many difference making shooters who are rumored to be available. Bjelica is linked with the Lakers but most trade chatter is from fan blogposts saying that he would be a good fit for Boston. I like him though his defensive limitations woukd drive some around here crazy. However his contract is more expensive and the extra year of control means that he will command more of a return.

Back to Burks, he is not great by any stretch but I disagree about him being an upgrade on Semi in terms of offensive spacing. They are both shooting at around the same percentages from the field and from deep. The difference is that Burks can create his own shot regularly and is putting up his numbers on much higher usage/attempts.

A guy like him isn't being brought in because he is a clear all around upgrade- he would be acquired for a very specific purpose. That would be as a credible second/third scoring option and playmaker when the Cs are resting their starters. Again, he is also an expiring and is dirt cheap.
I get the appeal of Burks, I just don’t think he really fills a need. The Celtics have 4-5 creators—their problem is more having guys to knock down the shots that get created.
 

JakeRae

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 21, 2005
6,463
New York, NY
There aren't many difference making shooters who are rumored to be available. Bjelica is linked with the Lakers but most trade chatter is from fan blogposts saying that he would be a good fit for Boston. I like him though his defensive limitations woukd drive some around here crazy. However his contract is more expensive and the extra year of control means that he will command more of a return.

Back to Burks, he is not great by any stretch but I disagree about him not being an upgrade on Semi in terms of offensive spacing. They are both shooting at around the same percentages from the field and from deep. The difference is that Burks can create his own shot regularly and is putting up his numbers on much higher usage/attempts.

A guy like him isn't being brought in because he is a clear all around upgrade- he would be acquired for a very specific purpose. That would be as a credible second/third scoring option and playmaker when the Cs are resting their starters. Again, he is also an expiring and is dirt cheap.
I’m always confused by comments like this. Being an upgrade at part of the game doesn’t make a player an upgrade. Burks is a modestly better offensive player than Ojeleye and a significant defensive downgrade. Just like we aren’t clamoring to replace Semi with IT (also a better offensive player) adding guys who are not as good at basketball as the guys we already have makes little sense.

On the other hand, both Bertans and Bjelica are better players than either Semi or Grant. Either would be a welcome upgrade if they come at a reasonable price.
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
11,135
I’m always confused by comments like this. Being an upgrade at part of the game doesn’t make a player an upgrade. Burks is a modestly better offensive player than Ojeleye and a significant defensive downgrade. Just like we aren’t clamoring to replace Semi with IT (also a better offensive player) adding guys who are not as good at basketball as the guys we already have makes little sense.

On the other hand, both Bertans and Bjelica are better players than either Semi or Grant. Either would be a welcome upgrade if they come at a reasonable price.
Late game substitutions are a thing. You can put Burks in an offense and replace him with Semi on defense. This happens in the NBA all the time. Especially at the end of games where it becomes a FT contest.
 

benhogan

Baynes Hogan (pending trade)
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
8,509
Santa Monica
I get the appeal of Burks, I just don’t think he really fills a need. The Celtics have 4-5 creators—their problem is more having guys to knock down the shots that get created.
We need a cheap vet to consistently drill 3s from both corners

found one that shoots 54.5% from left corner 3s & 53.3% from right corner 3s
Bjelica

wonder if Joe Harris would be made available by Kyrie Sean Marks. He's shooting a bit over 50% from the corner 3s this season
 
Last edited:

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
31,831
I’m always confused by comments like this. Being an upgrade at part of the game doesn’t make a player an upgrade. Burks is a modestly better offensive player than Ojeleye and a significant defensive downgrade. Just like we aren’t clamoring to replace Semi with IT (also a better offensive player) adding guys who are not as good at basketball as the guys we already have makes little sense.

On the other hand, both Bertans and Bjelica are better players than either Semi or Grant. Either would be a welcome upgrade if they come at a reasonable price.
I don't mean to confuse you but I believe we simply disagree. CC got at what I failed to explain. It seems to be a common sentiment that C's can use more offense heading into the playoffs however the problem is that there aren't any clear upgrades out there and if there are very good two way players, they are going to cost a fortune given how many teams could use someone like that. I don't love Alec Burks nor do I think he is exactly what the Celtics need. But he can create shots and is fairly inexpensive all the way around. I would envision him being subbed in for offense at various points in games and used as part of the second unit rotation to keep the scoring up. The delta between him and Semi defensively isn't that large imo either.

And to further clarify, if Bjelica is available - and the only credible, non-messageboard-type sources I've seen out there only suggest that the Kings offered him to the Lakers for Kuzma - the C's should absolutely kick his tires. If he is, it will cost a fair bit if the reports about Kuzma are true - and I know people are generally down on Kuzma but even so, the C's don't really have anyone comparable to send to Sacramento, even if you squint hard with your green eyeshades at the various candidates. But if the C's can pry him loose at a reasonable cost, he is a good fit.
 

chilidawg

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 22, 2015
1,843
Cultural hub of the universe
Late game substitutions are a thing. You can put Burks in an offense and replace him with Semi on defense. This happens in the NBA all the time. Especially at the end of games where it becomes a FT contest.
In the preseason maybe.

Neither Burks nor Semi should be thought of in late game situations. The Celtics have about 8 guys ahead of either of them.
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
11,135
Neither Burks nor Semi should be thought of in late game situations. The Celtics have about 8 guys ahead of either of them.
Sure but if Burks was a bit better 3 point shooter, he'd be used in those situations. That's what the Celtics need. I don't think Burks fits that role but it's not as simple as "Who is the better overall player?" because if you have the ball and you are down 100-97 with 4 seconds left, it doesn't matter how good you are on defense. The only thing that matters is how well you shoot the 3.
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
11,135
basically, they are role players. You don't care about how good they are overall, you care about how good they are in their role. If they were that good overall, they wouldn't be role players.
 

benhogan

Baynes Hogan (pending trade)
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
8,509
Santa Monica
Sure but if Burks was a bit better 3 point shooter, he'd be used in those situations. That's what the Celtics need. I don't think Burks fits that role but it's not as simple as "Who is the better overall player?" because if you have the ball and you are down 100-97 with 4 seconds left, it doesn't matter how good you are on defense. The only thing that matters is how well you shoot the 3.
chilidawg's point was you wouldn't have Burks or Semi on the floor in late/tight situations. Brad would have JT, JB, Kemba, GH and Smart or Theis or Kanter.

So Burks would never be an offense/defense situational player.
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
11,135
chilidawg's point was you wouldn't have Burks or Semi on the floor in late/tight situations. Brad would have JT, JB, Kemba, GH and Smart or Theis or Kanter.

So Burks would never be an offense/defense situational player.
Yeah but if Burks hit 40% of his 3s and the Celtics were down 3 with 10 seconds to go and the ball, he should be in the game over Marcus Smart even if he's not as good over all. They'd go with their 5 best shooters. Situational basketball. Of course Burks is not that so he's a bad example.

I'm just saying it's not as simple as who is the better overall player because situations call for different things.

edit: Plus it isn't a choice. You can have both.
 
Last edited:

Saints Rest

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Come playoff time, if they're lucky enough to be 100% healthy, their top 7 are Kemba/Jaylen/Tatum/Hayward/Smart and Theis/Kanter at center.

So your 8th guy has to come from Wanamaker/Semi/Grant.

If you think that's enough, great. I don't. I think they can easily, and cheaply, find an upgrade to those three guys.

Now if they're not 100% healthy, good luck making a run with 2 or more of those guys in your rotation.
I see two issues:
  1. The top 7 assumes health, and I worry about Kanter/Theis. If TL can get back, he can be that 3rd big if needed (like now). Otherwise, they don't really have that person.
  2. As the 8th (or 9th) player in the playoffs is going to be matchup dependent, they need someone who can fill roles that they don't currently have on the roster, to my eye (not necessarily in any order):
    • Instant offense guy, preferably a wing.
    • Quick guy to guard small/quick PG's.
    • Big guy to help play defense against Embiid, Brow, etc. should Theis or Kanter go into foul trouble
I don't think BW, SO, or GW can fill any of those roles. In the wonderful place where injuries don't happen and development of rookies is instantaneous, they would have all of those guys on their roster (Edwards, Waters, TL, respectively). But I don't think any of those 3 are ready for prime-time.
 

benhogan

Baynes Hogan (pending trade)
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
8,509
Santa Monica
Yeah but if Burks hit 40% of his 3s and the Celtics were down 3 with 10 seconds to go and the ball, he should be in the game over Marcus Smart even if he's not as good over all. They'd go with their 5 best shooters. Situational basketball. Of course Burks is not that so he's a bad example.

I'm just saying it's not as simple as who is the better overall player because situations call for different things.

edit: Plus it isn't a choice. You can have both.
Agreed. If Danny can find that 40% 3pt shooter that would be great.

While Burks isn't that, he would be an OK addition since his cost is probably a late 2nd
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
31,831
Let's frame this even more specifically.

Would you be ok if the Celtics gave up Grant Williams for Bjelica? Again, we don't know if Nemanja is really available because he is fairly cheap, clearly valuable and the Kings control him for another season. If the reports about Sacramento dangling him for Kuzma are accurate, I am guessing they would ask for Williams to get the ball rolling. I wouldn't do that deal but I get how others might.
 

Eddie Jurak

Go Leafs Go
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2002
23,679
Melrose, MA
Any chance the Heat will cut loose our old friend Kelly O and we can just grab him with a waiver claim? As dumb as that sounds, he would help.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
18,028
Back to Burks, he is not great by any stretch but I disagree about him not being an upgrade on Semi in terms of offensive spacing. They are both shooting at around the same percentages from the field and from deep. The difference is that Burks can create his own shot regularly and is putting up his numbers on much higher usage/attempts.
Shooting better on higher attempts may be a bug, not a feature. IMO, it's harder for a player to go 1/3 on 3Ps if he shoots one every game than if he shoots 3 per game. Also, the Cs don't really need a guy who can create his own shot for the 8th guy on the bench.

I know everyone thinks Poirier is useless but he's got a two-year contract and I'm guessing DA isn't going to jettison that second year for just anyone.

I think the Cs play the cards that were dealt them this year.
 

mcpickl

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 23, 2007
3,305
Let's frame this even more specifically.

Would you be ok if the Celtics gave up Grant Williams for Bjelica? Again, we don't know if Nemanja is really available because he is fairly cheap, clearly valuable and the Kings control him for another season. If the reports about Sacramento dangling him for Kuzma are accurate, I am guessing they would ask for Williams to get the ball rolling. I wouldn't do that deal but I get how others might.
I probably wouldn't do that, just because the Celtics are invested with Grant, but if I could get Bjelica for either the Milwaukee or Boston first this year instead(with just matching salary), I'd do that. Not sure if Sacramento would do it since he's got another year, but I wouldn't give up the 1st without that extra year either.

Unless the Celtics were willing to include one of the Williams' or Semi, they'd have to involve a 3rd team to make the money work. Say if Atlanta can't get a bigger deal done, the Celtics could trade Poirier, a 2nd and cash to cover Poiriers salary next year for Alex Len, then flip Len and a first to Sacramento for Bjelica.

Could also do something similar with Phoenix and Frank Kaminsky, though that would be more complicated. I think Javonte would have to go as well and Phoenix would need to clear a roster spot.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
18,630
Agreed. If Danny can find that 40% 3pt shooter that would be great.

While Burks isn't that, he would be an OK addition since his cost is probably a late 2nd
Yeah, if WCS fetched a late 2nd you'd have to think Burks can be had by the GM who has the best relationship with Bob Myers.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
6,160
Kiev, Ukraine
Let's frame this even more specifically.

Would you be ok if the Celtics gave up Grant Williams for Bjelica? Again, we don't know if Nemanja is really available because he is fairly cheap, clearly valuable and the Kings control him for another season. If the reports about Sacramento dangling him for Kuzma are accurate, I am guessing they would ask for Williams to get the ball rolling. I wouldn't do that deal but I get how others might.
I don't think there's any way the Celtics give up Grant for a guy like that--he's been as advertised pre-draft, they're invested (as mcpickl noted), and I imagine they project his 3 to improve over the years, at which point you have a long-term rotation guy with 3 years cheap and the type of profile that doesn't generally get paid in RFA

A late first (such as the Celtics own) is a pretty standard price for a rental-type one-dimensional guy like Bjelica. That was what the Wizards gave the Nets for Bogdanovic in 2017, and they're similar players/roles. I'm not a huge Hollinger fan, but he's decently representative of NBA front office valuation of draft assets, and he seemed to think that a late 1st would get it done. Obviously if LA does put Kuzma on the table, Nemanja will be a Laker, but LA obviously wants more for Kuzma--he's their last chip to play before they're out of assets for the next few years.
 

Eddie Jurak

Go Leafs Go
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2002
23,679
Melrose, MA
Here is how the Celtics rank by minutes played this year (all the bigs are in italics):

1. Tatum, 1478 (missed 4 games)
2. Walker, 1347 (missed 6 games)
3. Brown, 1342 (missed 8 games)
4. Smart, 1228 (missed 9 games)
5. Hayward, 1042 (missed 16 games)
6. Theis, 997 (missed 4 games)
7. Wanamaker, 863
8. Ojeleye, 699
9. G. Williams, 695
10. Kanter, 667

11. Green, 341
12. Edwards, 287
13. R. Williams, 269
14. Langford, 118
15. Poirier, 92
16. Waters, 56
17. Fall, 23

The Celtics top 5 point/wings is great, the strength of the team. But collectively, they have missed a lot of games: 43. And after those guys, they basically have Wanamaker and not much else. Wanamaker is fine, but he is overexposed, especially when one or more of the guys ahead of him are out, as has often been the case this year.

If we think ahead to the playoffs, the Celtics maybe can get by with Wanamaker if everyone is healthy, but they will be exposed if they need to play a lot of games without at least one of Tatum, Walker, Brown, Smart, and Hayward. Addng a player here would probably benefit the Celtics quite a bit, if they can find the right guy.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
6,160
Kiev, Ukraine
Here is how the Celtics rank by minutes played this year (all the bigs are in italics):

1. Tatum, 1478 (missed 4 games)
2. Walker, 1347 (missed 6 games)
3. Brown, 1342 (missed 8 games)
4. Smart, 1228 (missed 9 games)
5. Hayward, 1042 (missed 16 games)
6. Theis, 997 (missed 4 games)
7. Wanamaker, 863
8. Ojeleye, 699
9. G. Williams, 695
10. Kanter, 667

11. Green, 341
12. Edwards, 287
13. R. Williams, 269
14. Langford, 118
15. Poirier, 92
16. Waters, 56
17. Fall, 23

The Celtics top 5 point/wings is great, the strength of the team. But collectively, they have missed a lot of games: 43. And after those guys, they basically have Wanamaker and not much else. Wanamaker is fine, but he is overexposed, especially when one or more of the guys ahead of him are out, as has often been the case this year.

If we think ahead to the playoffs, the Celtics maybe can get by with Wanamaker if everyone is healthy, but they will be exposed if they need to play a lot of games without at least one of Tatum, Walker, Brown, Smart, and Hayward. Addng a player here would probably benefit the Celtics quite a bit, if they can find the right guy.
Agree it would help as insurance, and they're deep enough to win a round if one of the top 5 goes out, if that guy is in place. I still would rather have a shooting wing than Wanamaker, and just whatever combo of Smart/Hayward/Kemba that is healthy handle the ball.

The problem is the roster crunch. They're not going to sell low on any of Grant, Romeo, TimeLord, or Tremont, and probably not Carsen or Tacko either. Sell low in this case = at a price that values them lower than their draft slot (or lower than a 35 pick or so for the 2nd round guys). Ainge goes out of his way to never do this.

Theis is not going anywhere--he's too good, too cheap and at a position of need.

That leaves Kanter, Poirier, Javonte, and Wanamaker. I think any of them should be in play for the right combination of big/ball-handling/shooting help.
 

benhogan

Baynes Hogan (pending trade)
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
8,509
Santa Monica
Theis is not going anywhere--he's too good, too cheap and at a position of need.

That leaves Kanter, Poirier, Javonte, and Wanamaker. I think any of them should be in play for the right combination of big/ball-handling/shooting help.
Small quibble, I'd also slot Kanter (if healthy) into too good, too cheap and position of need category. With the right attitude, defensively flawed players can work well in the Brad Machine.

While I want that shooter & depth big, WBCD is correct, odds are Danny sits tight. Which is fine, the team has outperformed projections by a fair amount. He may not want to upset the apple cart, team chemistry was a big mantra this past summer. Plus we can all see where Tatum & Brown are headed in 2-3 seasons (top 10 players). Agreed, Danny won't want to sell low on all his cheap, controllable talent (2019 draftees) nor should he. They need to be developed and used to fill out the roster around JT/JB in the coming seasons. AND it may be the reason he holds on to his 2020 draft picks tightly.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
6,160
Kiev, Ukraine
Small quibble, I'd also slot Kanter (if healthy) into too good, too cheap and position of need category. With the right attitude, defensively flawed players can work well in the Brad Machine.

While I want that shooter & depth big, WBCD is correct, odds are Danny sits tight. Which is fine, the team has outperformed projections by a fair amount. He may not want to upset the apple cart, team chemistry was a big mantra this past summer. Plus we can all see where Tatum & Brown are headed in 2-3 seasons (top 10 players). Agreed, Danny won't want to sell low on all his cheap, controllable talent (2019 draftees) nor should he. They need to be developed and used to fill out the roster around JT/JB in the coming seasons. AND it may be the reason he holds on to his 2020 draft picks tightly.
Yeah, if they go that route, they're going to need to do some consolidation, since they'll need to find 3 more roster spots. I also somewhat question the wisdom of an all-rookie/2nd-year bench when you're a legit title contender, which I think this team pretty clearly is.

I don't think they're going to be what they really can be until they get a lights-out shooter. They're generating and missing too many good looks, and it would further add extra space for Tatum and Brown and Kemba, who are really good when the floor is spaced and they can attack the mismatches that most teams have against them.
 

RetractableRoof

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 1, 2003
2,743
Quincy, MA
WRT adding a better than Wannamaker, but injury insurance replacement wing: To my way of thinking, if they lose one of the top 5 non-bigs for an extended period - they won't be able to advance more than say finishing out the round they are in. I don't seem them being able to overcome their loss with just a replacement wing (unless that player is also a talented 2 way wing). With the exception of Walker, those Cs players each excel defensively, are true 2 way players (either on ball or within the team defensive structure). Walker isn't a black hole defensively, just not willing to call it a strength. So if we believe they can't survive (in injury scenario) without a talented 2 way wing, it would take a premium to pry that kind of player loose.

I don't believe they can advance with a loss like that, so paying a premium or subtracting a potentially longer term cost controlled asset (like Granite) doesn't seem a good use of trade deadline assets. Now if Danny finds himself a consolidation option that fits within his longer term roster construction design, sure do what your going to do.

Given that, I'd bet he stays pat - unless the lights out 3pt shooter becomes available - and even that will be a situational usage player. If they can't play D, they can't stay on the floor for Brad.

Side note: IMO the same thinking applies for a big. If they can't play the cohesive team D, and then be an asset on offense by doing the lunch pail screen/seal/box out/garbage collect stuff, they aren't getting on the floor except situationally. And if the C's need to defend an inbound alley oop with 1-2 seconds left, TL if healthy will be able to do that. If TL isn't available for that situation due to health then Tacko adds enough wrinkle in those very limited situations. (I'm not sure if he is eligible for the playoffs given his contract status.) So I can't see adding a one dimensional big as insurance either.
 

RetractableRoof

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 1, 2003
2,743
Quincy, MA
Yeah, if they go that route, they're going to need to do some consolidation, since they'll need to find 3 more roster spots. I also somewhat question the wisdom of an all-rookie/2nd-year bench when you're a legit title contender, which I think this team pretty clearly is.

I don't think they're going to be what they really can be until they get a lights-out shooter. They're generating and missing too many good looks, and it would further add extra space for Tatum and Brown and Kemba, who are really good when the floor is spaced and they can attack the mismatches that most teams have against them.
Agree with all of this (though I'm not as down on the rookie/2nd year bench given the maturity that Granite plays with).

I think the need for a shooter is why we were all so excited about the prospect of Carson Edwards after seeing him light it up in the summer league. Even just a portion of that performance/confidence would be so valuable (assuming he could bring adequate defense to stay on the floor).
 

the moops

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 19, 2016
2,392
Saint Paul, MN
Obviously if LA does put Kuzma on the table, Nemanja will be a Laker, but LA obviously wants more for Kuzma--he's their last chip to play before they're out of assets for the next few years.
I think there is an interesting debate to be had on whether a team would want Kuzma or a late first. Not talking MIL late first, but let's say a pick in the 20 range. Kuzma only has 1 more year until he is going to get paid, and I imagine there are teams that value him drastically more than others. Wouldn't be surprised if he gets a pretty big offer sheet
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
6,160
Kiev, Ukraine
I think there is an interesting debate to be had on whether a team would want Kuzma or a late first. Not talking MIL late first, but let's say a pick in the 20 range. Kuzma only has 1 more year until he is going to get paid, and I imagine there are teams that value him drastically more than others. Wouldn't be surprised if he gets a pretty big offer sheet
Yeah, not every team would want Kuzma vs a late first, but the scuttlebutt is that there are enough who do that he’s something of an asset.

I’m not personally a fan of no-D, old-for-their-class wings who don’t project as elite offensively, but I acknowledge there is a possible universe where Kuzma ends up good.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
31,831
I don't think there's any way the Celtics give up Grant for a guy like that--he's been as advertised pre-draft, they're invested (as mcpickl noted), and I imagine they project his 3 to improve over the years, at which point you have a long-term rotation guy with 3 years cheap and the type of profile that doesn't generally get paid in RFA

A late first (such as the Celtics own) is a pretty standard price for a rental-type one-dimensional guy like Bjelica. That was what the Wizards gave the Nets for Bogdanovic in 2017, and they're similar players/roles. I'm not a huge Hollinger fan, but he's decently representative of NBA front office valuation of draft assets, and he seemed to think that a late 1st would get it done. Obviously if LA does put Kuzma on the table, Nemanja will be a Laker, but LA obviously wants more for Kuzma--he's their last chip to play before they're out of assets for the next few years.
Again, the only report from a credible source showing that Bjelica is available is a KOC one from last week saying that he was offered for Kuzma. Furthermore, it suggested that the Kings interest was very specific in Kuzma.

I don't know if Hollinger has information around any Kings/Lakers discussions or is simply speculating but a late first is more reasonable than a young player. I defer to Hollinger on this but it also seems incredibly cheap for a player like Bjelica who has another season of control at reasonable money after this year.
 

Eddie Jurak

Go Leafs Go
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2002
23,679
Melrose, MA
Agree it would help as insurance, and they're deep enough to win a round if one of the top 5 goes out, if that guy is in place. I still would rather have a shooting wing than Wanamaker, and just whatever combo of Smart/Hayward/Kemba that is healthy handle the ball.

The problem is the roster crunch. They're not going to sell low on any of Grant, Romeo, TimeLord, or Tremont, and probably not Carsen or Tacko either. Sell low in this case = at a price that values them lower than their draft slot (or lower than a 35 pick or so for the 2nd round guys). Ainge goes out of his way to never do this.

Theis is not going anywhere--he's too good, too cheap and at a position of need.

That leaves Kanter, Poirier, Javonte, and Wanamaker. I think any of them should be in play for the right combination of big/ball-handling/shooting help.
I agree that they don't have a ton of either roster room or players that it makes sense to deal. Maybe they can add a shooter in the buyout market. I'd most like to keep Grant, Romeo, Tremont, Kanter, and maybe even Wanamaker (whom I still think is a perfectly great 4th guard/9th or 10th man). I'd consider trading any of the others/picks if the right player were available.
 

InstaFace

MDLzera
Silver Supporter
SoSH Member
Sep 27, 2016
11,076
Back to Burks, he is not great by any stretch but I disagree about him not being an upgrade on Semi in terms of offensive spacing. They are both shooting at around the same percentages from the field and from deep. The difference is that Burks can create his own shot regularly and is putting up his numbers on much higher usage/attempts.
I don't love Alec Burks nor do I think he is exactly what the Celtics need. But he can create shots and is fairly inexpensive all the way around. I would envision him being subbed in for offense at various points in games and used as part of the second unit rotation to keep the scoring up. The delta between him and Semi defensively isn't that large imo either.
Oh god, @Sam Ray Not got to DeJesus.

None of us are safe.

:)