2019-2020 Celtics Regular Season Thread

[benhogan]

I was high on this Celtics team to begin the year but I am cooling for a couple of reasons. From an unbiased viewer they seem like paper tigers who have feasted on the leagues easiest schedule up to this point. Their holes are also pretty glaring with the lack of backcourt depth and reliance upon so many young players.

Congrats on crushing it with the books. You called the vast majority of NBA teams so far (Betting thread). I'd venture to say your pretty close 100% on over/under for the rest of the NBA (Orlando is coming back) and in the scheme of things that's what matters...

BUT were you very high on the C's to begin the year?

You had the Celtics at 45-46 wins at the start of the season, according to the POLL (80% of the Board was more optimistic then yourself).

Even with the last 2 losses, they are on a 58 win pace. How far do you see them coming down?

https://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?threads/poll-how-many-games-will-the-celtics-win.27814/

 

[HowBoutDemSox]

From having now read several of these articles, a lot of them distinguish between "crimes of passion" where the actor is not thinking rationally and has no opportunity to consider likelihood and severity of consequence, vs say economic crimes like burglary and theft. That's the distinction I'm talking about too. We're talking about situations where the "Certainty of apprehension" is 100%, because they're on TV and the refs are looking right at them. If the players don't have an opportunity to first calm down before making a cooler-headed decision on whether to continue complaining or not, then a second tech is just capriciously adjusting the extent to which they're punished for the same impulsive acts of whining or making a scene.

We can go down this rabbit hole if you like. I don't think I'm making any claims about human nature and psychology that aren't common sense and widely understood. If there's research otherwise on deterrence for crimes of passion specifically, then it's possible you've got me and I'm interested to learn something counterintuitive. But we gotta narrow down to that lane.


I realize you're joking - again, after having explained the same joke the first time you made it - but the issue is not in "refs keeping their cool" but in players not letting it go and keeping up the hissy fits long after most of us would have calmed down. I'm saying this is normal for the emotional state they're in. I agree that maybe there should be a rule that a ref can't give a second tech within (say) a minute of giving the first one to a player, no matter what they do, unless it's something insta-ejectable like punching someone or physically harming an official. But I still think giving a timeout to someone who's behaving like a toddler would solve a large class of these incidents right now in a fairly elegant way.

I have to apologize for my initial post on this, which was flippant to the extent that it caused this sidetrack and wasn't very constructive. Let me reset a bit.

I don't generally see the need to cool down players as being so big an issue as to necessitate a change in how players are treated, such as the penalty box idea. I don't think a player momentarily blowing up is so common an occurrence, or so pernicious when it does happen (other than when involving violence or an imminent threat of violence, in which case an immediate ejected is warranted), to add any additional layers to the system we have. I think adding an additional way for referees to impact the game, such as forcing a player to be removed from action for a period of time, is only going to result in more controversy (imagine a team losing a playoff game by one point while its best payer is forced to "cool off" for five minutes in the final quarter), less excitement (more incentive to change the channel with a star out of action for a while), and feeds into what is as bad or worse of a problem, which is bad officiating.

What I find more interesting is the creative ideas in this thread about limiting refs from calling two techs in a minute or without one of the other refs stepping in. There's no magic bullet - we all acknowledged that these are humans put on an enormous stage with millions of eyes watching - but I think putting the focus on the players and not adding additional measures to curb the influence of poor officiating is focusing on the wrong part of the equation. Obviously I'm biased because of Kemba getting tossed last night, but I just don't see too much harm in players getting upset, cursing, expressing themselves, etc. I'd rather focus on giving them less to get upset about in the first place.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Congrats on crushing it with the books. You called the vast majority of NBA teams so far (Betting thread). I'd venture to say your pretty close 100% on over/under for the rest of the NBA (Orlando is coming back) and in the scheme of things that's what matters...

BUT were you very high on the C's to begin the year?

You had the Celtics at 45-46 wins at the start of the season, according to the POLL (80% of the Board was more optimistic then yourself).

Even with the last 2 losses, they are on a 58 win pace. How far do you see them coming down?

https://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?threads/poll-how-many-games-will-the-celtics-win.27814/

I played Over the Celtics win total of 48.5 and played them at +340 (I think it was 340) to win the Atlantic as one of my second largest plays. Pretty sure I posted that in that thread or another where this was discussed but maybe not.
I rarely view those poll threads I’m guessing I either misclicked or voted prior to my work on the wagers.

Edit: I mentioned my bullishness on the Celtics in two posts in that thread. In one, I said I have a couple pro-Celtics plays then later when I listed my sides I even had an asterisk next to Boston as one of the larger ones.......which was still about 1/3 as much as my Blazers liability. Having so much upside with a division win at that price have me all that space to hedge with Toronto at another good price.

 

[InstaFace]

What I find more interesting is the creative ideas in this thread about limiting refs from calling two techs in a minute or without one of the other refs stepping in. There's no magic bullet - we all acknowledged that these are humans put on an enormous stage with millions of eyes watching - but I think putting the focus on the players and not adding additional measures to curb the influence of poor officiating is focusing on the wrong part of the equation. Obviously I'm biased because of Kemba getting tossed last night, but I just don't see too much harm in players getting upset, cursing, expressing themselves, etc. I'd rather focus on giving them less to get upset about in the first place.

I'm reminded of a different scene we sometimes observe with global football: something happens, play is stopped, and players from one team swarm up to a referee even before he's had the chance to make a call, pleading for something to be done. Maybe he's waiting to hear what his linesman saw, or marching towards a spot, or replaying it in his mind - whatever the reason, there's a pause, and the players swarm him. Then he makes the call that they're asking for (but just as clearly, not because they swarmed him)... and then the players from the other team run up instead and complain and whine, making a second scene and requiring yet more time to get everyone to calm down and go back to sporting their sport.

The players are not going to be satisfied no matter the quality of the refereeing, because their livelihoods as well as their competitive instincts depend on being convinced of their own abilities and rightness. They will always perceive events and officials as biased against them (much as we do as fans), think something is unjust, and try to influence the officiating. Again: no amount of refereeing quality will make players stop complaining. It will just mean the complainers are wrong a higher fraction of the time than they currently are. But right or wrong, they'll do it.

Any solution has to recognize that while "the players are the product", they are part of the problem here too, and if you're going to ask more out of officials who already have an impossible job to do, you also have to make asks of players.

 

[Jimbodandy]

Here’s another Evan Scott clip:

View: https://twitter.com/MickstapeShow/status/1184996581659029504?s=20

Guy has been on the job for less time than some of the stuff in my fridge has been there, but he has two Crawford-Duncan moments on his resume already.

There's another guy in the crew that I recognize too. I hate when these dickheads are part of the story. Generally if you're a basketball official, and the general fan population knows your name, you suck. If your entire tenure is slightly longer than a hummingbird fart and we know your name, you should consider selling cars or something.

 

[lovegtm]

I'm not sure what the solution is, but the Celtics for the past week have looked like a team getting worked in the 1st game of a playoff series, for whom the only relevant adjustment next game is "play harder."

Smart should be fine as he gains some weight/strength back and gets his legs under him. Hayward is concerning.

 

[chilidawg]

I'm not sure what the solution is, but the Celtics for the past week have looked like a team getting worked in the 1st game of a playoff series, for whom the only relevant adjustment next game is "play harder."

Getting taller would help too.

 

[HowBoutDemSox]

Getting taller would help too.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Getting taller would help too.

View: https://youtu.be/ryDOy3AosBw

 

[NomarsFool]

It seems a bit like Jaylen and Jason haven't been finishing as well near the rim. My impression is that they've been unlucky in that a lot of shots that seems like they should be going in, haven't been going in. It's been a couple games in a row now, so maybe it's not just bad luck - maybe it's teams adjusting to their penetration somehow, fatigue, I don't know.

Hayward, I just don't know. He was playing so well early in the season, and I feel like he's just not a significant factor right now. Can't tell anything from the games - just seems like he's not playing like the star he was earlier in the season.

 

[benhogan]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbnFINrMQ0I

 

[chilidawg]

It seems a bit like Jaylen and Jason haven't been finishing as well near the rim. My impression is that they've been unlucky in that a lot of shots that seems like they should be going in, haven't been going in. It's been a couple games in a row now, so maybe it's not just bad luck - maybe it's teams adjusting to their penetration somehow, fatigue, I don't know.

Hayward, I just don't know. He was playing so well early in the season, and I feel like he's just not a significant factor right now. Can't tell anything from the games - just seems like he's not playing like the star he was earlier in the season.

Of the two, Brown seemed very tentative driving. His decision to kick it out to Ojelelye for a 3 on a fast break was terrible and out of character, he's usually much more aggressive in that situation. Tatum seemed like he was having the same issues finishing that have plagued him off and on all season. His rebounding and defense were excellent though.

 

[benhogan]

I'm not sure what the solution is, but the Celtics for the past week have looked like a team getting worked in the 1st game of a playoff series, for whom the only relevant adjustment next game is "play harder."

Smart should be fine as he gains some weight/strength back and gets his legs under him. Hayward is concerning.

I agree with the Smart comment. Hayward probably needs plenty of load mgmt.

Last night's loss wasn't completely shocking (see below from last Sunday). The entire team looked young/tired in the 2nd half. Brad will need to extend his bench more during the next month

I can’t wait for the sky-is-falling takes when Philly (with 2 days rest) beats us on the end of a road b2b.

getting Phila and Mil on-road back-to-backs is a shame. It won't mimic a playoff experience but will be used extensively as proof that the Celtics can't compete with them when it counts.

 

[NomarsFool]

The game management has been a bit odd, quite frankly. We've had so many games where the deep end of the bench seemed to be in there a bit too much for my opinion, and then last night - second night of a back to back - it was pretty much all the starters, all the time. No Wannamaker at all - which completely surprised me. What happened to Langford? Seems like he's barely played since Smart returned.

 

[benhogan]

The game management has been a bit odd, quite frankly. We've had so many games where the deep end of the bench seemed to be in there a bit too much for my opinion, and then last night - second night of a back to back - it was pretty much all the starters, all the time. No Wannamaker at all - which completely surprised me. What happened to Langford? Seems like he's barely played since Smart returned.

I think Langford has the flu?

I wasn't terribly impressed with Semi's on-ball beef on Simmons. He probably shouldn't be in the top 9 rotation when playing the 76ers/Bucks/Lakers.

So I wouldn't mind Brad experimenting w/Grant on Giannis when we play the Bucks. Semi has nice footwork (as does Grant) but his inability to elevate and block shots is exploitable. I also like Grant at the 4, his numbers are better playing w/Theis & Kanter

 

[amarshal2]

While Semi wasn't very successful I thought he was the best at "shuffling his feet and providing a physical wall between simmons and the basket." Grant didn't look as quick with his feet. Ben just made shots over Semi, which isn't going to be the norm.

 

[Big John]

Langford has the flu? Out again? Given how well 19 year-old Doumbouya has been playing since being recalled from the G-league, the 2019 draft may turn out to be 2013 all over again.

 

[benhogan]

While Semi wasn't very successful I thought he was the best at "shuffling his feet and providing a physical wall between simmons and the basket." Grant didn't look as quick with his feet. Ben just made shots over Semi, which isn't going to be the norm.

I was hoping a little more on-ball pressure from Semi, but if he can't do that he's pretty inefficient.
Guarding big physical scorers is his calling card. Giannis/Simmons can easily back him down and shoot over him. Deep bench, 3rd string defender is his destiny against BS/GA eventually

Semi will get some minutes over the next month with load mgmt in play. BUT he could end up as trade ballast if Grant can guard those guys.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

Without looking at things closely, I'll just reiterate Brad and say that the Cs stagnate when the ball doesn't move side-to-side.

At this article points out, one of the big problems with the Cs is that from night-to-night, no one knows what they are getting from GH, JB, and JT. Some of it is age, some of it is physical, and some of it (I'm sure) is schedule.

If I were coaching, the one thing I'd be preaching is consistency, as in how are they going to get consistent production no matter what team they are facing.

 

[lovegtm]

Without looking at things closely, I'll just reiterate Brad and say that the Cs stagnate when the ball doesn't move side-to-side.

At this article points out, one of the big problems with the Cs is that from night-to-night, no one knows what they are getting from GH, JB, and JT. Some of it is age, some of it is physical, and some of it (I'm sure) is schedule.

If I were coaching, the one thing I'd be preaching is consistency, as in how are they going to get consistent production no matter what team they are facing.

To add to that point, Weiss did a good article in the Athletic today pointing out how the lethargy and inconsistency is manifesting itself.
https://theathletic.com/1526220/2020/01/10/celtics/(behind a paywall, but first 2 videos here are from the article: https://vimeo.com/user87174607)

Basically nothing secondary is happening off the base actions. Nothing on the weakside, no shooters filling driver-vacated spots, and so on. It's the same stuff from when they've played well, but with none of the energy andn extra outlets you need to make this style of offense work.

I'm very high on this team's ability to execute defensively in a playoff environment (no B2Bs, ability to gameplan, lots of long fast guys). We saw Stevens get that out of a similar-type group in 2017-2018.

However, I'm very concerned about their ability to execute an offense in a playoff environment: the current system has way too many moving parts and too many things that can go wrong. The only really good teams we've seen recently execute a "lots of moving parts and reads offense" at a championship level are the 2012-2014 Spurs and the Warriors. And even the Warriors, with perhaps the two greatest shooters in history to grease the skids, often ended up falling back on "KD, go get us a bucket" when things got tough in the playoffs.

I don't blame anyone for this situation--the Celtics had a strange situation after the abrupt breakup of the Kyrie team. Things have gone well wrt the Jays, recent struggles aside. But I think this offseason they need to figure out personnel and schematic ways to simplify things around Kemba and the Jays.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

If Enes Kanter could play against Jaxson Hayes and Jahlil Okafor for 82 games he's be a 25/15 All-Star and first ballot HOFer. Go ahead, somebody challenge this.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

In a game where defense was not required......Grant Williams fouled out in 13 minutes, finishing with 0 points and a rebound. Don't be spending all of that rookie contract in one place.

 

[nighthob]

If Enes Kanter could play against Jaxson Hayes and Jahlil Okafor for 82 games he's be a 25/15 All-Star and first ballot HOFer. Go ahead, somebody challenge this.

In fairness you could say the same thing for Marcus.

 

[amarshal2]

Hayward looked like Hayward against the Pels. Cut really hard to the basket, finished with dunks, and made some nice passes. Was great to see.

Also, was nice to see Smart show a lot of restraint with his shooting. He was still a big positive on offense with his penetration and passing getting other guys open but only taking 4 shots is basically ideal for a guy with his efficiency.

 

[lovegtm]

Hayward looked like Hayward against the Pels. Cut really hard to the basket, finished with dunks, and made some nice passes. Was great to see.

Also, was nice to see Smart show a lot of restraint with his shooting. He was still a big positive on offense with his penetration and passing getting other guys open but only taking 4 shots is basically ideal for a guy with his efficiency.

Yes to your Smart point. It felt like he made a conscious effort to seek out better shots, attack, or move the ball.

I know the Pels are trash without Holiday, Reddick and Favors, but this Celtics team seems to find a good rhythm when it plays those types of teams. They really need a few of these types of games to fully work in Smart and Hayward imo.

 

[amarshal2]

Yeah, it's against bad teams that don't play good defense, but that's back-to-back games where the passing has at times looked a little bit more like the Warriors than the typical Celtics. They've averaged about 23 assists a game but have 29 and 28 in the last two games. Hayward had 11 assists over the last two and Smart 14. Those two guys stand out the most but it's been a team affair, as they've moved the ball inside and/or back out to create some really easy/open shots they don't usually get. They looked like this a bit right before Hayward went down in 2019 so it's nice to see them get it back a bit. Smart again showed some restraint, albeit hoisting 8 shots instead of 4. Still, he played really well and most of those 8 shots were good shots. He was a game high +25. Brown's shooting slump continues so he only took one three and focused on attacking to get to the line 9 times (including one 3pt shot foul), and made every FT (!).

This team has another level in them when they play together to maximize their efficiency as a team. Something to watch to see if it's just the competition or if they can repeat it against tougher defensive teams in higher pressure games.

 

[lovegtm]

Yeah, it's against bad teams that don't play good defense, but that's back-to-back games where the passing has at times looked a little bit more like the Warriors than the typical Celtics. They've averaged about 23 assists a game but have 29 and 28 in the last two games. Hayward had 11 assists over the last two and Smart 14. Those two guys stand out the most but it's been a team affair, as they've moved the ball inside and/or back out to create some really easy/open shots they don't usually get. They looked like this a bit right before Hayward went down in 2019 so it's nice to see them get it back a bit. Smart again showed some restraint, albeit hoisting 8 shots instead of 4. Still, he played really well and most of those 8 shots were good shots. He was a game high +25. Brown's shooting slump continues so he only took one three and focused on attacking to get to the line 9 times (including one 3pt shot foul), and made every FT (!).

This team has another level in them when they play together to maximize their efficiency as a team. Something to watch to see if it's just the competition or if they can repeat it against tougher defensive teams in higher pressure games.

So Chicago's actually a pretty decent defensive team: they're #13, better than Denver and Miami, less than a point/100 off the Clippers and Utah.

We've seen them play the right way against good competition a decent amount this year--until the recent slump, they were one of the best teams in the league against > .500 opponents.

Wrt the recent slump: that was awful, awful basketball, but it's basically impossible to keep your focus for 82 games. GS seemed to think it was a mistake to maintain that intensity for all 82 in 2015-2016, and never tried to do so again.

With that said, I'm excited for the calls to break up the team after they lose to Milwaukee on a road-road B2B on Thursday.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

So Chicago's actually a pretty decent defensive team: they're #13, better than Denver and Miami, less than a point/100 off the Clippers and Utah.

Counterpoint - Wendell Carter, a key defensive guy for them, didn't play last night.

 

[lovegtm]

Counterpoint - Wendell Carter, a key defensive guy for them, didn't play last night.

True, and they were playing that over-aggressive trap that seemed straightforward to beat.

Regardless, we know what it looks like when they play with no offensive energy against bad teams, and this wasn't that.

 

[Gash Prex]

Who made this schedule? The Celtics have consistently played the top teams on the 2nd night of their back to backs - happened recently with the sixers again with the bucks on Thursday.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

In 18 October and November games, Brad Wanamaker shot 50% from the field. In 19 December and January games, he is shooting ~36.3%. He was hitting threes at a ~40% clip during the first two months and ~31% over the past two. His defense also has fallen off during that period as well.

He isn't to blame for the C's recent shoddy play but its becoming evident that as hard as Wanamaker plays, they need to upgrade his position - they don't need his ball-handling but they do need someone in that role who can get buckets and play a little defense. I expect another scorer/wing is where Ainge will shop and then try to find big help via the buyouts.

Its probably advantageous for them to buy early to give Kemba more rest heading into the next two months but also to get ahead of what may be a crazy trade season with all the flawed teams still chasing the lower seeds.

 

[chilidawg]

I'm not sure backup PG is really where they need to spend their resources, but the bench sorely needs an upgrade. Ojeleye just doesn't dp much of anything, Wanamaker is meh, and Grant W. has his limitations. Kanter and Smart are really the only two guys who are impact players. I guess that's to be expected when you have 7 rookies.

I'd like to see Langford get more minutes, he's the one guy who at least has the upside of an impact player.

 

[NomarsFool]

Ugh. That was ugly. How many plays seemed to end with Theis making a grimacing face after someone on the Pistons had an easy layup?

I think one of the factors right now is that Smart is just rusty / out of shape after his illness. He certainly had some periods of fantastic defensive intensity with some steals, but I feel like a lot of other times he just looks sluggish out there. He also has some of the ugliest drives in the NBA where he throws up shots that just have no prayer of going in. Fouled or not, I feel like the refs just say "Nah....that was never going in".

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

I'm not sure backup PG is really where they need to spend their resources, but the bench sorely needs an upgrade. Ojeleye just doesn't dp much of anything, Wanamaker is meh, and Grant W. has his limitations. Kanter and Smart are really the only two guys who are impact players. I guess that's to be expected when you have 7 rookies.

I'd like to see Langford get more minutes, he's the one guy who at least has the upside of an impact player.

To be clear, they absolutely should not spend resources on a back-up ball-handler. They already have Kemba, Hayward, Smarf and the two Jays to play-make. But they do need more scoring and having a longer wing/scorer to pair with Walker when Stevens runs out his two and three guard line-ups would be more ideal for a playoff scenario.

Plus, keeping things simple, Wanamaker is not an essential member of the current rotation nor is he a young asset that isn't producing much now but has some future value. I don't dislike Wanamaker but he has been pretty poor for a month and a half now. If he can't get the team buckets in small spurts, he really doesn't do a lot for the team.

 

[Jimbodandy]

I was wrong twice about Wanamaker. Wished him off the team after preseason for Waters, and then had to fall on my sword after his sizzling start this year. I now swear at the TV every time that he's in. Bad shot selection, sloppy ballhandling, and can't stay in front of literally anyone.

 

[benhogan]

I was wrong twice about Wanamaker. Wished him off the team after preseason for Waters, and then had to fall on my sword after his sizzling start this year. I now swear at the TV every time that he's in. Bad shot selection, sloppy ballhandling, and can't stay in front of literally anyone.

Ha. Wanamaker is/was fine as the 3rd string PG. Him and Semi were/are cheap deep bench experienced vets. Necessary with so many rookies on the roster to start the season. BUT It would be nice if Brad would adjust rotations a hair. I'd like to start seeing if Grant/Romeo/Waters(could care less about his NBA days) can play more mins, add some energy as we approach the midpoint/drudgery of the NBA season. I'd expect those rookies to fully replace Brad/Semi/etc by next season.

It's all about a 2021 Championship run and beyond while staying competitive this season.

 

[CoffeeNerdness]

I'd like to see Langford get more minutes, he's the one guy who at least has the upside of an impact player.

Brad went to him early and then he wasn't seen again until garbage time. Something he's also done with Javonte, Carson, Grant, etc. I doubt it changes the outcome of the game, but giving Romeo Semi's second half minutes may have kept the game closer because Romeo actually seems like a player with a good defensive mindset.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Anyone who thinks a non productive Wanamaker is "fine" is ignoring the data. If he cannot credibly fill in and be effective in multi-guard lineups, he has very little value to this team even now.

Maybe he snaps out of his slump but if this continues the Cs should probably give his minutes to one of the kids or make a trade. But Wanamaker as a black hole of sorts is not "fine".

 

[Lazy vs Crazy]

Anyone who thinks a non productive Wanamaker is "fine" is ignoring the data. If he cannot credibly fill in and be effective in multi-guard lineups, he has very little value to this team even now.

Maybe he snaps out of his slump but if this continues the Cs should probably give his minutes to one of the kids or make a trade. But Wanamaker as a black hole of sorts is not "fine".

I'm getting Marcus Morris vibes here and I hate it. Great start to the season shouldn't guarantee a big role later if you start sucking.

 

[lovegtm]

I'm getting Marcus Morris vibes here and I hate it. Great start to the season shouldn't guarantee a big role later if you start sucking.

The difference is that he doesn't have the personality or status to later torpedo the team if he doesn't get shots.

There are some bad trends recently, but I think people also underestimate how hard it is mentally/physically to keep focus during a scheduling stretch like the Celtics have right now. I think they're one tier below the elite, but I also think that their current style and team construction looks really, non-representatively bad when energy levels are low.

Lulls during 82 games are the norm, not the exception. The difference with the 2018-19 team is that they would have these stretches for no good reason whatsoever.

The only team really exempt from lulls is Milwaukee, because Giannis is such an insanely binary player. You either have the players to match up with him, or (90% of teams) you don't, and then he dunks or kicks to shooters until they win by 20, very little variance or parts to fit together.

 

[InstaFace]

Maybe we can acquire Rajon Rondo for spare parts

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

I'm getting Marcus Morris vibes here and I hate it. Great start to the season shouldn't guarantee a big role later if you start sucking.

His differential thus far is a minus 1.5 after a plus 9.5 last season. If this continues his minutes should probably be curtailed or they should upgrade. To be clear, he isn't responsible for the team's recent up and down play but his minutes are likely better allocated elsewhere, even if you are conceding the team's chance to compete for a championship this year.

 

[lovegtm]

His differential thus far is a minus 1.5 after a plus 9.5 last season. If this continues his minutes should probably be curtailed or they should upgrade. To be clear, he isn't responsible for the team's recent up and down play but his minutes are likely better allocated elsewhere, even if you are conceding the team's chance to compete for a championship this year.

The most likely thing isn’t an upgrade—it’s taking him out of the playoff rotation. You already have Smart, Kanter, and probably Grant off the bench. Not sure why they’d want Wanamaker playing real minutes at that point, barring injury.

 

[The Social Chair]

I"d love Kris Dunn in the Wanamaker role. He is a ferocious defensive player. He probably makes too much money though.

 

[Big John]

If you want a defensive bulldog, I'd prefer Jevon Carter to Chris Dunn at around 1/4th of the cost, plus not having to worry about Duun's 7M qualifying offer next year.

 

[lovegtm]

Mixed feelings on the Bucks game. On one hand, there were a lot of encouraging things in terms of holding it together mentally on a road B2B against a good team--felt a lot like the Nuggets game right after LAC in that way. We clearly have the personnel to be somewhat competent against Giannis, and energy/freshness would do a lot to handle MIL's 3-point shooting better. Kemba is also a problem for the Bucks, which is what he's paid to be.

Last year's team gets blown out by 30+ in this game, zero question.

The discouraging part was how bad Hayward looked. There's really nothing they can do at this point except hope and pray for the spring, because he just was at a physical level below that of Milwaukee. If that's who he is in April/May, they can't beat the Bucks or Philly.

(Yes, Hayward was positive +/- for the night, but Milwaukee had some insanely hot 3-pt stretches, and +/- last night was basically about who happened to be on the floor for those.)

 

[HowBoutDemSox]

The discouraging part was how bad Hayward looked. There's really nothing they can do at this point except hope and pray for the spring, because he just was at a physical level below that of Milwaukee. If that's who he is in April/May, they can't beat the Bucks or Philly.

I wonder how much additional rest would help. On one hand, it seems intuitive that if the foot is the difference between how he looked against the Pistons vs. how he looked against the Bucks, resting him on second nights of back-to-backs seems obvious (and would be less of an issue with the spread out playoff schedule). But on the other hand, he looked great at the start of the season and we only started hearing about foot issues after he missed a month with the hand issue, so it’s not like rest is the only cause.

 

[lovegtm]

I wonder how much additional rest would help. On one hand, it seems intuitive that if the foot is the difference between how he looked against the Pistons vs. how he looked against the Bucks, resting him on second nights of back-to-backs seems obvious (and would be less of an issue with the spread out playoff schedule). But on the other hand, he looked great at the start of the season and we only started hearing about foot issues after he missed a month with the hand issue, so it’s not like rest is the only cause.

Yeah, I have no clue tbh.

It’s also concerning how much he gets abused defensively by strong players relative to the similar-sized players on our roster.

At the end of the day though, you don’t play road B2Bs in the playoffs. The big question for me is whether they can re-find defensive intensity once this schedule stretch ends. They could eliminate a lot of the early game negative 3-point variance they’ve had lately by playing with more energy/connectedness and denying the attempts in the first place. That’s their only realistic chance for a deep run imo.

Lastly, fuck the NBA regular season. Imagine how fun these games would be if there were only 50-60 of them. It’s hilarious that the league whines about ratings and then makes games like this road B2Bs. Regular season games with fresh, motivated teams are awesome product, and we get robbed of it.

 

[NomarsFool]

It's a long season, so I imagine we'll feel differently about Hayward 6 times between now and the end of the regular season. Unfortunately, after looking like an All-Star at the start of the year, Hayward has pretty much played his way out of having much trade value (aside from salary ballast - which doesn't make any trades attractive). So, while there wasn't much out there as options, I think the top 7 guys for the Celtics this year are definitely now in stone. Maybe they'll get hot in the playoffs and with the additional rest the bench will be less exposed. But, it's starting to look more like a developmental year and less like a year they really had too much of a shot at going to the Finals. We'll see. If I were Ainge, I think I'd stand pat and not spend any assets to upgrade the team (unless there was an interesting buyout for the bench).

The real questionmark is going to be Hayward for next season. If he continues this level of play (again, which could change 6 times between now and the end of the season) he's in kind of an in-between place. If he opts out, he has the opportunity to sign his last, big contract. That's probably a pretty big incentive. I think any team that signs him to a max is at a high risk of making a really big mistake, but he only needs 1 team to make that mistake. From the Celtics point of view, I don't mind if he exercises the player option for 2020-2021, but I don't think the Celtics should re-sign him at what I think will be his market value this summer. Again, if he plays consistently like he did at the start of the season - would love to have him long-term (versatile wings are huge in today's NBA). But, since the hand injury he just doesn't seem to have that much of an impact on the game.

 

[Imbricus]

Something about this year's Celtics that I find puzzling, but in a good way: they seem to be right in a lot of games where they don't play particularly well. I watched part of last night's game, and Milwaukee for a while couldn't miss a 3-point shot (true, they weren't being defended well much of the time). So today I checked the box score: the Bucks shot 52% from three. The Celts shot a relatively miserable 31%. Yet they only lost by 5. It seems last year with those percentages they would have lost by closer to 20.