It did seem like the Celtics could just show up and win, especially when the Raptors got in such serious foul trouble. I kept waiting for the Celtics to just put the pedal to the metal and blow them out - but it never happened.
2019-2020 Celtics Regular Season Thread
- Thread starter Devizier
- Start date
I agree. It was good to see the young guys face a little adversity and have to try to respond. Toronto punches them in the mouth to start the game and kept doing it. Ref crew was bizarre, as a Brothers crew usually is. Good experience.
C's defense was mediocre/low energy in the 2nd half of the Cavs game and it carried over to Toronto.
One game over the next 5 days to work out the kinks before the schedule goes into overdrive.
The next 5 games are against some bad teams.
One game over the next 5 days to work out the kinks before the schedule goes into overdrive.
The next 5 games are against some bad teams.
View: https://twitter.com/cleantheglass/status/1212051171516571648?s=20
Less interesting to me than the fact that the Celtics are good against good teams is how meh Milwaukee has been in these games. I didn't realize how hard they and Dallas have been bum-hunting this year.
Also, Philly is still scary.
Less interesting to me than the fact that the Celtics are good against good teams is how meh Milwaukee has been in these games. I didn't realize how hard they and Dallas have been bum-hunting this year.
Also, Philly is still scary.
If Tacko somehow was voted in as an all-star, they'd have to accept that, right, even though it would be the most ridiculous thing ever.
Fan vote is 50%, players and media 25% each, probably to avoid exactly that.
Craig Hodges was in the 3 point contest to defend his championship despite not being on an NBA roster sometime in the 90s.
Who are buyout candidates for the 5. This is a championship level team if they get another guy that can contribute at Theis level.
Cross-posting from the game thread:
Was at the game with my boy last night — and the crowd was definitely into it — had all the right ingredients:
** going down big early... crowd was immediately surly
** clawed back into it with some intense Brown and Smart defense — and the two of them were animated after every big play, and the crowd got into it
** Trae Young was being a dickhead after every made shot — particularly towards Smart (never a good idea), who was being physical with Trae on both ends of the floor — if Brad hadn’t subbed for him at one point, Smart would have started something and probably been ejected
** the stepping over/onto Trae at the end was a culmination of their back and forth all game — Trae was overselling fouls, complaining to the refs, and doing a lot of “I just made a ridiculous three” gesticulating that pissed off the crowd, which made the Theis stuff at the end glorious — Smart also did his own Trae-like gesture towards the Hawks bench when he made the late-game three
** every time the Celts were about to tie or take the lead, something would happen (turnovers, bad shot selection, defensive lapse) — and the crowd was in that mood mix of frustrated (come on, put these guys away!), excited (we were down 18 but we can win this!), and invested (we will boo the shit officiating and hate Trae — win so our hate is rewarded!).
** Hayward’s three to end the third was a perfect way to take the lead... and yet, despite going up by eight in the 4th, Trae had a chance to win it at the end
** with Tatum struggling (my son and I have yet to see a good Tatum game in person; tonight was a Jaylen revelation, though, please don’t trade him ever), a lot of role players had huge moments (that Kanter dunk! Wanamaker to the hole! Waters with a steal!)
** The reffing was really bad at key moments, which got the crowd invested in overcoming the Hawks AND Trae AND the zebras
TL;DR This game was overflowing with fun NBA drama
*****
Other thoughts:
**Jesus can NBA players rain and drain threes during warm ups — Semi (Semi!) was dribbling behind the back and then hitting threes over and over and over again. Missed once, maybe.
** Grant Williams boxed out Collins with his ass cheeks on one play — no arms or hands, just his ass. Kid is strong.
** Gordon is smoooooooth. Please don’t trade him.
** We need Time Lord or another big — with Theis in foul trouble and Kanter bleeding, there wasn’t anyone to come in (thankfully they stopped the bleeding)
** Tatum couldn’t get past anyone... and watching him unable to finish through contact was maddening.
** I’m buying Jaylen stock... not selling Tatum, but getting worried.
Was at the game with my boy last night — and the crowd was definitely into it — had all the right ingredients:
** going down big early... crowd was immediately surly
** clawed back into it with some intense Brown and Smart defense — and the two of them were animated after every big play, and the crowd got into it
** Trae Young was being a dickhead after every made shot — particularly towards Smart (never a good idea), who was being physical with Trae on both ends of the floor — if Brad hadn’t subbed for him at one point, Smart would have started something and probably been ejected
** the stepping over/onto Trae at the end was a culmination of their back and forth all game — Trae was overselling fouls, complaining to the refs, and doing a lot of “I just made a ridiculous three” gesticulating that pissed off the crowd, which made the Theis stuff at the end glorious — Smart also did his own Trae-like gesture towards the Hawks bench when he made the late-game three
** every time the Celts were about to tie or take the lead, something would happen (turnovers, bad shot selection, defensive lapse) — and the crowd was in that mood mix of frustrated (come on, put these guys away!), excited (we were down 18 but we can win this!), and invested (we will boo the shit officiating and hate Trae — win so our hate is rewarded!).
** Hayward’s three to end the third was a perfect way to take the lead... and yet, despite going up by eight in the 4th, Trae had a chance to win it at the end
** with Tatum struggling (my son and I have yet to see a good Tatum game in person; tonight was a Jaylen revelation, though, please don’t trade him ever), a lot of role players had huge moments (that Kanter dunk! Wanamaker to the hole! Waters with a steal!)
** The reffing was really bad at key moments, which got the crowd invested in overcoming the Hawks AND Trae AND the zebras
TL;DR This game was overflowing with fun NBA drama
*****
Other thoughts:
**Jesus can NBA players rain and drain threes during warm ups — Semi (Semi!) was dribbling behind the back and then hitting threes over and over and over again. Missed once, maybe.
** Grant Williams boxed out Collins with his ass cheeks on one play — no arms or hands, just his ass. Kid is strong.
** Gordon is smoooooooth. Please don’t trade him.
** We need Time Lord or another big — with Theis in foul trouble and Kanter bleeding, there wasn’t anyone to come in (thankfully they stopped the bleeding)
** Tatum couldn’t get past anyone... and watching him unable to finish through contact was maddening.
** I’m buying Jaylen stock... not selling Tatum, but getting worried.
The crowd was A+++ last night and I posted about it in-game thread last night. While Philly fans boo at home for a bad quarter/half of hoops the Garden willed this group to victory.
Good summation. Don't worry about them trading JB or JT, they are here for at least another 5 seasons, possibly 10yrs.
Saw that post in the game thread when I read through it this morning -- you nailed it. Crowd was really into it, and the players fed off of the energy (particularly when they were catching up -- and late in the fourth). I couldn't help but think that last year's squad folds in this game. Chemistry matters. No Kyrie > KyrieThe crowd was A+++ last night and I posted about it in-game thread last night. While Philly fans boo at home for a bad quarter/half of hoops the Garden willed this group to victory.
Good summation. Don't worry about them trading JB or JT, they are here for at least another 5 seasons, possibly 10yrs.
On a related Kyrie note: The Celtics had reps around the Garden encouraging fans to vote for the All Star Game -- their pitch was, "Kyrie is head of Kemba. We need to do something about that." The Kyrie hate is palpable, real, and glorious.
If we keep the kids till they're kids no more, we are in for some great basketball. Brown's ability to stop on a dime, pivot, elevate, and finish is so much better this year. His handle was loose a lot last night, but even with some sloppy play, he was demonstrably better than last year at this time. And Tatum is definitely disruptive on defense, providing value even when his offensive game is putrid (and it was from beginning to end last night, other than a few opportunistic moments). Right now, it's a lot more fun to watch Brown (my son, who has a Tatum jersey, said he needs a Brown one now -- he's switching allegiances). But give Tatum another year and who knows? At least two or three of the blown lay-ups should have been dunks -- I keep wanting him to play pissed off. Dunk on mother****ers, man!
My son pointed out that the Celts had six players in double figures last night. Definitely was a "Who can step up?" sort of game. Nice for my boy to see as he continues to learn the game (he's in 8th grade and only started playing in 6th) -- he's seeing what players can do when they're focused on winning rather than solo stats (thankfully, after a lot of ranting by his ranting dad, he now sees that Rozier and MaMo can kill a team with selfish play).
One last observation: I really enjoyed watching Theis and Kanter play -- a lot of energy. Still, it was REALLY noticeable when the Hawks defense sagged off of them. The Celts offense often went through Theis/Kanter in the high PnR, but the defenders would leave the big man alone at the top -- literally, no one within 8-10 feet -- daring them to shoot. I can see how a 5 who can reliably hit the three would unlock the spacing that would make our over-abundance of wings utterly unstoppable.
Okay, I lied, one more: it was really odd, but heartwarming, to see Vince Carter in the role of "beloved veteran." During the Hawks player intros, he was out there, greeting each one with a personalize hug/handshake/high-five. They clearly like and respect him, and he is obviously enjoying his golden years. He wasn't going to get a minute of playing time, but he has a role to play on this team.
Finally, I think someone else mentioned it in the game thread, but let me join in: We're going to love hating Trae Young for the next decade. The sneer, the hair, the attitude, the gestures, the flopping, the "I just got sniped from the clocktower" reaction to contact when he drives... everything he does is irritating. Don't get me wrong, the kid can shoot, has an uncanny ability to get to the bucket even when everyone knows that's what he's going to do, and his ability to find open shooters when the defense collapses on him is really rather remarkable... but that doesn't make the slightest dent in my hate. He's the basketball embodiment of annoying. May he suffer many an ignominious endgame fail like this one.
Good color. Some memorable times for you and your son, good job Dad!
I can't imagine Kyrie (11 games played) makes the All-Star team, but I really don't follow this stuff too closely. Not sure how the mechanics' work (Fans+players+coaches), how serious the players/coaches take it, or the history of this stuff. I never really cared for the whole weekend nonsense, it's just another exhibition for glorified scorers.
I don't want Tatum making it without Brown. Not interested in seeing a hierarchy/competitive thing to develop between them.
I'm glad they finished them off in the end, as I was really worried with about a minute to go that Brown had thrown the game away. I can't recall the exact sequence, but he had a turnover on that long pass, fouled somebody, and missed a shot, too, if I recall. It was a rather poor minute of play on an otherwise great night for him (was weird, though - he seemed to take very few 3PAs).
Pretty easy to see Kemba's value when you watch the team without him. They look a lot more like Philly when he's out: a decent amount of offensive talent, but no one explosive enough to really compromise the defense's shape regularly, so you end up grinding it out on nights when you get outshot from 3.
They also don't generate many 3 point looks without Kemba--2nd straight game without getting many up.
The front office seems to (correctly, imo) think that unless you have a super-elite offensive wing like Giannis, Luka, or Harden, you really need an elite smaller guy to drive offensive efficiency. It will be interesting to see how the teams built without that (Philly, Indy, etc) fare in the playoffs.
They also don't generate many 3 point looks without Kemba--2nd straight game without getting many up.
The front office seems to (correctly, imo) think that unless you have a super-elite offensive wing like Giannis, Luka, or Harden, you really need an elite smaller guy to drive offensive efficiency. It will be interesting to see how the teams built without that (Philly, Indy, etc) fare in the playoffs.
I'm a bit surprised that Waters didn't get more of a look in this pair of games. Last time Kemba missed a game, strong play from Waters was the story. This time Kemba misses one game and Waters gets a DNP and 4 minutes. I don't think he's anywhere near ready to be a savior or anything like that, but he seems capable of adding a bit of what is missing without Kemba. (I also think that in the Atlanta game he was as effective as anyone they put on Trae Young in his limited opportunity.
Friday note: Trae’s hair is Harry Belafonte with allopecia.
Smart is just a huge downgrade at the point. I love him for his defensive and other merits, but there were too many times against Chicago where he drove into the teeth of the defense with little chance of finishing and no outlets to pass to.
Yeah, I think Smart is a valuable player overall, but the redundancy shows on nights like this—he’s not adding much at the wing, and he’s meh as a PG. I don’t think Tatum would do tons worse being the primary guy on LaVine either.
Smart looked a lot more valuable when Brown was out early in the year—that’s the slot he fits into more cleanly.
re Waters playing time: that’s just a Brad with rookies who aren’t Tatum thing imo.
I was really cringing when Smart drives with the ball. Just looked like ugly shots. Smart is still very often an excellent passer, but he still looks for his own shot too much for my taste.
Down to .315 from 3. Didn't someone say they could see him shooting 40%? That didn't age well.
First 11 games: 31/76 from 3, .408
Last 13 games: 15/70 from 3, .214
I really hope last year wasn't a mirage/positive variance. He's much more enjoyable to watch when he's hitting 35-37% of his 3s instead of < 30%.
First 11 games: 31/76 from 3, .408
Last 13 games: 15/70 from 3, .214
I really hope last year wasn't a mirage/positive variance. He's much more enjoyable to watch when he's hitting 35-37% of his 3s instead of < 30%.
He had around 800 shots of being a 35% shooter before the recent slump, so I think there’s something real there.
The main thing is that he just looks somewhat off and weak on both ends since coming back from (checks notes) nearly going blind, but doesn’t seem to want to acknowledge that, because he’s Marcus Smart and of course.
Huh? He doesn't have close to 800.
edit: I guess if you combine his 2017/18 into the fold he does but that's a weird way of doing it since he shot .301 in 2017/18. He's basically had one good year from 3 over 346 attempts.
did anyone really think 40% was Smart's new level? I think we were all pretty happy with last year's rate.
My main quibble with Smart and the 3 is the # of attempts. There is no way he should be shooting more of them then the BIG4. He should facilitate more than launch challenged 3s at the 15-second mark. Brad recently yelled at Smart twice during the Charlotte game about this.
Smart doesn't look the same since coming back from injury. His balance is clearly off (I've called him drunk a few times on the game thread).
Even at 35% Smart shouldn't be closer to JT on attempts then JB is to him. Brad has been vocal in public, which isn't his MO. I imagine going forward Smart will be more selective.
Looking deeper into the numbers
2018/19: 92.1% of his 3s were assisted, 25.1% were from the corner and he hit 37.9% of them.
2019/20: 76.1% of his 3s were assisted, 11.6% were from the corner and he has hit 29.4% of them.
2018/19: 92.1% of his 3s were assisted, 25.1% were from the corner and he hit 37.9% of them.
2019/20: 76.1% of his 3s were assisted, 11.6% were from the corner and he has hit 29.4% of them.
The changed shot profile is definitely worrying. 3-4 3s a game would be plenty to keep the defense honest, but he takes way more than that, and generally too early in the shot clock. He’d likely be closer to the 35-37% shooter he needs to be on that profile.
Like, the ok 3s that Tatum and Hayward and Brown pass up to get better shots, Smart just launches. He also put up some truly awful fadeaways against Atlanta, and has been forcing postups that just aren’t great offense.
Part of me wonders whether he’s pressing to find an offensive role as he sees other guys clearly moving by him.
I thought at times he looked like.a zombie out there. Just sort of seemed out of it. Understandable given the layoff but maybe he should be eased into it a bit more
Kemba out again for Monday against Washington, Langford questionable.
https://weei.radio.com/blogs/nick-friar/kemba-walker-out-again-romeo-langford-questionable
https://weei.radio.com/blogs/nick-friar/kemba-walker-out-again-romeo-langford-questionable
I think it’s more noticeable because the Celtics have 4 indispensable players, rather than the usual 1-3. The odds of an important-seeming player being out at any time are just way higher given that math.
On the plus side, it's also providing rest from general wear-and-tear. Like, even if he wasn't out for these 3 games due to illness, you'd want him to miss 3 at some point just to give his body some recovery time. Likewise Smart, who is out every season with a doctor's diagnosis of "playing too hard". As long as the absence is due to illness (or family circumstances, or whatever) rather than the injury that you're trying to hold them out to prevent, the only thing we really lost was the ability to dictate when that load management would occur.
Thankfully, other than the home loss to the Raptors the Celtics have been taking care of business. Maybe a little tighter than they need to be, but they've been racking up the wins. So, all in all, things are going very well.
For regular season games against non-elite opponents,... other than Kemba, who is really indispensable?
For the best opponents, you should make it 4 + (MSmart, for all his brain farts, is a crucial part of a top tier team)
Otherwise, I completely agree!
Yea. I'm ready to let Waters stay and play much more. Carsen still looks scared/nervous and should just be on the Maine shuttle. The more minutes/comfortable Tre gets, the better he seems to play. He can play those jitterbug guards that Smart has no business guarding.
I'd also consider starting Wanamaker over Smart (with Kemba out) in these games. Marcus launching at will with Tatum/Hayward/Brown on the floor is getting tiresome.
Waters looks way more NBA-ready than Edwards at this point, which is something of a surprise. With Kemba out they almost need to have him out there. Wanamaker had a pretty solid run that peaked at the end of November, but since then he has been very mediocre. I wouldn't strt him in non-emergency circumstances.
Smart still doesn't look healthy/right. With Kemba out, playing Wanamaker/Waters a bit more would be helpful especially with the schedule going into overdrive. Expanding the bench use is happening no matter what. Plus I'd rather have a PG that defers more when GH/JT/JB are on the floor all at once. There are limited minutes when you get those 3 on the floor together.
Like you, I'm surprised Brad didn't turn to Waters more with Kemba out. I thought Tremont delivered a nice 20-minute spark in that Kings' game earlier this season. And provided some energy in his 8 minutes last night.
As far as Edwards, his calling card is the 3pt shot, he needs to get into a shooting groove at Maine (which hasn't happened yet) before he can really add value at the NBA level. Coming into the season, I thought Carsen would have an immediate positive impact (got that wrong). His development path needs to be in Maine for the foreseeable future.
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Yeah, it felt like the Waters lineups got them back in the game, and then they sat him as soon as the game was tied.
They probably were fucked regardless with that piss-poor execution and effort, but would have been nice to see Waters on IT and Ish Smith.