2019-2020 Celtics Regular Season Thread
- Thread starter Devizier
- Start date
Agree with the approach for finding a depth center. Injuries are a bigger risk than talent at that position. And next year, they can re-sign a certain Australian if they want...agree
Utah Gordan*, with his strong ballhandling and ability score at the rim or distribute while driving, is the antidote to teams double-teaming Kemba. Too many times Smart had the ball in his hands during crunch time w/ no GH. I like Tatum and Brown as 3PT spot-up shooters or slashing to the rim.
I really like what I'm seeing with the Celtics defensive speed, help, and rotation. They are a threat on defense at all times. Not many easy baskets for the Clips, even in transition. Beverly hit some big 3s down the stretch, but the guy came in hitting 19% (SSS aside), so him taking those instead of Lou, PG, Kawhi or Harrell down low is something you have to live with.
The TL/Theis combo is good as active, aggressive 5s. I'd still look to add Noel (for VP & a 2nd) to insure against those guys injuring themselves. (Anyone that doesn't see one of Theis or TL going down, with their usage up, has not been paying attention). I'm becoming even more convinced that that the Celtics team speed/double-teaming can handle the Sixers-Bucks-Pacers-Heat size/bulk. Kanter in small minutes also has a role. So a 4-headed 5, that insures against inevitable injury, is the only move the team really needs to do IMO
A healthy Utah Gordon will be a huge difference-maker in these close losses. Once he's back this team will take another, huge step forward IMO...looking forward to seeing how they react against Denver.
*note: Brad Wanamaker did a great job playing that Hayward role of strong ballhandler, driving to the hoop, drawing or dishing. He was solid last season and he has been very consistent this season. Nice to have Brad as a key veteran/deep bench piece.
Glad we didn't cut him to keep Max Strusor rush Tremont Waters
I'm ok if the team lays an egg against Denver. Both the Celtics and Clippers went all-out last night, treating it the way soccer teams sometimes do an intense exhibition, where you really want to see where you're at. It will be nice if they come out well against Denver, but I think it's fine to blow your emotional load every so often, even if it leaves you with a mess on your hands the next game.
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The players look appropriately unhappy with being walking advertisements for Paddy’s Irish Pub.
Brad was in rare form last night. I wish he had taken the fine to publicly criticize the zebras after their performance last night, possibly even unify the team a bit.
View: https://i.imgur.com/0NvBPJf.gif
View: https://i.imgur.com/0NvBPJf.gif
It’s funny to me that so many of the posters who spent last season complaining about Brad’s rotation were the same ones longing for Strus and Waters over Semi and Wanamaker this year.*note: Brad Wanamaker did a great job playing that Hayward role of strong ballhandler, driving to the hoop, drawing or dishing. He was solid last season and he has been very consistent this season. Nice to have Brad as a key veteran/deep bench piece.
Glad we didn't cut him to keep Max Strus
This was the first decent article I've seen on what Tatum and Brown bring. A shocking amount of "advanced" NBA "analysis" seems to consist of reading lists of TS% and then dismissing anyone who's not efficient, without making any effort to analyze the components of winning. With the amount of different lineup configurations the Celtics use, having Brown+Tatum as the top +/- duo in the league is really impressive. It also highlights one of the most important components of winning: a lot of these elite, efficient scorers tend to end up in rockfights when they play the Celtics.
Is that just a rainbow LGBTQ thing, or is there another significance that I'm missing?
Ho Chi Minh must have been a hell of a baker at Parker House to get a tribute like that.
...until you take away the 6/35 that Iman Shumpert and Dzanan have put up for Brooklyn so far.
I bet every team improves a bunch when you eliminate their two worst shooters.
I'm surprised it took this long for someone to say this.
It wasn't supposed to be meant as sophisticated analysis, only that the main shooters for BOS are really good at shooting (usually).
Oh, and Edwards last I checked was over .300, so you don't have to take him away anymore.
really? I didn't notice that
I wasn't pointing out anyone in particular, but it felt like there was a surprisingly large number of posters that were open to unloading Semi or Brad to make room for Strus, which I strongly disagreed with during pre-season. IMO keeping experienced players at $1-2MM at the end of the bench is a no-brainer when the 17 man roster already had 6 rookies (Romeo, Edwards, Grant, Waters, Tacko, Green) to develop. Injuries inevitably happen, every roster spot counts, and you can have only so many guys with zero NBA experience that are learning/developing.
Especially when:
-Brad Wanamaker shot well last season (51%/41%/86%), 3 to 1 Asst-TO ratio, played decent defense and had numerous positive advanced metric #s
-Semi has one elite skill, "on-ball beef", which helps the C's glaring weakness (size deficiency) against their most important competition (Phila/Mil).
I get the Semi frustration since his 3pt shot has never really developed BUT the Wanamaker hate was beyond silly.
I was very outspoken and critical of Brad's rotations last season. They were questionable from Day 1. Hayward was not healthy enough to be the opening day starter last season. Then MaMo's subsequent insertion into the starting lineup as the primary 4 compounded his mistake. Both were terrible decisions. It should have always been Horford starting at the 4 w/ Baynes at the 5 (or Theis when AB was injured). Whatever perceived value Brad thought he was getting from MaMo on offense with the starting unit definitely didn't outweigh his HUGE defensive liability. MaMo was much better being a primary option on offense w/the 2nd unit where his defense also wouldn't get as exposed. Brad corrected it by seasons end, by inserting Baynes into the starting lineup with Horford at the 4, but it was too little/too late and injuries to Baynes were the final cruel twist.
Most importantly Brad learned from his "MaMo mistake" last season. He has prioritized defense over the very, very small potential offensive upgrade of starting Enes Kanter. Brad has wisely deployed Enes against 2nd unit players or against beefier 5s that can't hurt him on the PnR as much. Plus Enes can use his offensive strengths and be a primary option on the block/offensive boards with the 2nd unit.
Brad has been completely on point with his rotations this season, it's been great to see him return to all of his clever adjustments.
Sheesh I wasn’t talking about YOU! Lol.
I wasn’t referencing anyone specifically I just recall so many Waters>Wanamaker and BagOfBalls>Semi posts. Honestly I don’t recall who they were but they were certainly out there.
I wanted to keep Wanamaker, but I definitely was in favor of cutting Semi. I still think he’s basically Matisse Thybulle in terms of offensive incompetence, without anywhere near the defensive potential. I guess if they really believe in the Giannis-stopper thing, but I think Smart+Brown+Theis’s 18 fouls get you plenty to work with.
I was down on Wanamaker and preferred to see Waters around. I was dead wrong.
Just don't remember Wanamaker being this good. Aside from a couple of turnover streaks, he has been money every time out there. Every fucking time.
I took the position that both were expendable and if the team thought Strus and Green had actual rotation player upside (a position I never professed an opinion on to my recollection) it made sense to cut one of them to keep both Strus and Green. I was wrong about Wanamaker, who is clearly an actual rotation caliber player. I stand by my position on Ojeleye. I’d also note that my position wasn’t that Waters could cover for Wanamaker but that between Kemba, Smart, and Hayward we didn’t need another point player. For Ojeleye, I continue to think he’s a net negative in that he gets minutes that could be going to Williams (and there will be a point in the season where the same is true of Langford).
Mea culpa. I wanted the team to keep all 3 of Strus/Green/Tacko, and so was willing to sacrifice either Wanamaker or Semi. I am glad they made the decisions they did; Ojeleye is nothing special, but he's had a couple of nice games, and is perfectly fine as a bottom of the rotation player for now. Wanamaker has been better than that. Mea culpa.
Ha. I definitely dragged the soapbox out
I'm guilty of liking what Brad did in the preseason by announcing that Enes would play with the 2nd unit. The NBA national media kept on saying Kanter was Horford's replacement and the Celtics would take a massive defensive hit. BUT Brad knew exactly what he was going to do with EK and the Celtics defense at the 5. It's been pretty cool to watch how they have used Theis/TL
ALSO I'm probably being unfair to Brad, last year's team was uncoachable, and CBS hands were basically tied. Brad's MO: defensive rotation/help/positioning/effort AND ball movement on offense were thrown out the window by Kyrie, MaMo and Rozier.
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But Marcus Morris is one of the best defensive players in the league. Just ask him!
I've come to grips with Wannamaker as our backup PG, but I don't particularly like having him and Kemba on the floor at the same time because there are plenty of players I want on the floor more than Wannamaker.
I've come to grips with Wannamaker as our backup PG, but I don't particularly like having him and Kemba on the floor at the same time because there are plenty of players I want on the floor more than Wannamaker.
It’s a good thing Kemba didn’t suffer a serious neck injury. The way he was wheeled out of the arena was reminiscent of a European C-league soccer match. Good god!
I was watching on replay this morning with no spoilers, but that was scary enough that I just skipped ahead and googled the news. Really scary moment, glad he seems to be ok.
Wanamaker is fine but he struggles at the end of close games (maybe recency bias). Granted, injury forced him in that role.But Marcus Morris is one of the best defensive players in the league. Just ask him!
I've come to grips with Wannamaker as our backup PG, but I don't particularly like having him and Kemba on the floor at the same time because there are plenty of players I want on the floor more than Wannamaker.
Anyone else feel like they'd like to see Jaylen B hoist up a few more threes? He's at 37% on the season having taken 56 threes which is 41 fewer than Tatum who's shooting 37% as well. He seems to pass up quite a few good looks from three and he's been getting swallowed up trying to get to the rim lately.
He's also played 3 less games that Tatum, which is 20% of the season at this point. By 3PA/G, he's at 4.7 and Tatum is at 6.5. I wouldn't mind him taking a few more 3s but he's already taking quite a few. I'd like to see Tatum take more too.
Also, over the last 4 games, Jaylen is attempting 6.75 3PA/G, so he has been hoisting more 3s in recent games. His last 4 he's had 7, 5, 8, 7 attempts from 3.
Tatum is at 4, 9, 10, 5. 1 more attempt over the last 4.
I didn't notice it before, but with Hayward and Walker out, this team really does have a limited amount of 3 point threats. I think Edwards has that potential but I think they should explore letting Wanamaker let it fly.
Very limited sample size and all but his career line is .497/.393/.902. That's only 61 FT and 56 3 pointers but it suggest the guy can shoot.
Last 4 years in International play
14/15: 62 games, .485/.360/.838, 9.5 FGA/G/, 2.2 3PA/G, 3.7 FTA/G
15/16: 64 games, .502/.378/.865, 8.8, 2.9, 3.8
16/17: 66 games, .468/.390/.846, 10.8, 4.0, 5.0
17/18: 69 games, .456/.350/.833, 8.1, 3.2, 3.6.
Not exactly small sample sizes.
Updated C's opponent differentials as of last night's game:
76ers (L) 12th with a +3.3
Raptors (W) 6th with a +7.5
NYK(W2X) 25th with a -7.1
Bucks (W) 1st with a +8.9
Cavs (W) 27th with a -7.7
Hornets (W) 26th with a -7.5
Spurs (W) 23rd with a -3.3
Mavericks (W) 3rd with a +8.4
'Zards (W) 21st with a -2.4
Warriors (W) 30th with a -11.9
Kings (L) 24th with a -6.8
Suns (W) 11th with a +3.5
Clippers (L) 7th with a +5.0
Nuggets (L) 8th with a +4.7
The Celtics have slipped to fifth after being atop the differential leaderboard as recently as nine days ago. Obviously injuries, the west coast road trip and some tougher teams (LAC and Denver) have been behind it. As the season goes along, it will be interesting to see if they rebound or hang around this level even when they get Walker and Hayward back.
They have had some very impressive wins against elite teams early in the Bucks and Toronto as well as beating the Mavs & Suns. However Toronto is starting to roll and Milwaukee is a wagon so those rematches are going to be huge while Phoenix is starting to look like a .500 club.
In short, we are at the part of the season where "fast" and "slow" starts begin to see regression to the mean so it will be interesting observing how that filters through in individual and team play. Players and teams making the leap should be able to sustain their production but adjustments are being made so the stars of the first month - the Suns being case in point - are starting to fall back.
76ers (L) 12th with a +3.3
Raptors (W) 6th with a +7.5
NYK(W2X) 25th with a -7.1
Bucks (W) 1st with a +8.9
Cavs (W) 27th with a -7.7
Hornets (W) 26th with a -7.5
Spurs (W) 23rd with a -3.3
Mavericks (W) 3rd with a +8.4
'Zards (W) 21st with a -2.4
Warriors (W) 30th with a -11.9
Kings (L) 24th with a -6.8
Suns (W) 11th with a +3.5
Clippers (L) 7th with a +5.0
Nuggets (L) 8th with a +4.7
The Celtics have slipped to fifth after being atop the differential leaderboard as recently as nine days ago. Obviously injuries, the west coast road trip and some tougher teams (LAC and Denver) have been behind it. As the season goes along, it will be interesting to see if they rebound or hang around this level even when they get Walker and Hayward back.
They have had some very impressive wins against elite teams early in the Bucks and Toronto as well as beating the Mavs & Suns. However Toronto is starting to roll and Milwaukee is a wagon so those rematches are going to be huge while Phoenix is starting to look like a .500 club.
In short, we are at the part of the season where "fast" and "slow" starts begin to see regression to the mean so it will be interesting observing how that filters through in individual and team play. Players and teams making the leap should be able to sustain their production but adjustments are being made so the stars of the first month - the Suns being case in point - are starting to fall back.
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View: https://twitter.com/shamscharania/status/1198632846941999105?s=21
The fact that Kemba has a chance to play tomorrow is astonishing considering the events of Friday night.
The fact that Kemba has a chance to play tomorrow is astonishing considering the events of Friday night.
Sprained neck for a guy who's apparently had a neck injury that's lingered since the summer sounds super dicey.
Interesting that he's doubtful and not out for this game (at least today). That tells me he's not doing that poorly.
chart below shows Usg% and TS% for Big 4 pre- and post- GH. Come back soon!
:no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/19405276/Screen_Shot_2019_11_24_at_5.27.31_PM.png)
source:
https://www.celticsblog.com/2019/11/25/20980914/boston-celtics-offense-sputtering-in-gordon-haywards-absence-marcus-smart
source:
https://www.celticsblog.com/2019/11/25/20980914/boston-celtics-offense-sputtering-in-gordon-haywards-absence-marcus-smart
I wasn't aware that the NBA used the out/doubtful/questionable/probable designations. Interesting.
Seems like Brown has had a rough couple of games. It's disappointing, as I feel like he was playing really well. It's not rocket science, but when there are a lot of weapons on the floor they are all able to shine by finding the open man and/or the person not being guarded by the other team's stopper. Without Heyward, and now Kemba, Tatum and Brown don't seem to have as much room to maneuver. Tatum has risen to the challenge with some big games, but hopefully we'll see a big game from Brown soon.
Yup, if you're going to take a 2004 Pistons route to the title, you need all your guys healthy. Brown definitely benefits from getting the ball off GH/Kemba actions--he has good chemistry with those two in that regard, and really misses Hayward.
Again though, the NBA regular season is a grind, and its main purpose is to get a decent seed while figuring out your team's identity on the fly. As long as the team isn't developing awful habits like last year's, it's ok not to freak out about losses here and there.
It's not rocket science but having four scorers on the floor - as opposed to three - really opens up the floor for the types of drives that JB loves to use because its hard to get the defenders back into the correct position to defend these once they are on the move.
If anyone is looking for a blessing in disguise, having JB and JT have to figure out how to score with a much more compact defense should be good for their development. It's the kind of the things young players on bad teams learn just through trial and error (and losing a bunch of games) and hasn't been something JB or JT have had to do on a regular basis.
Sign me up for Kemba/Hayward taking their time, while JT/JB develop their games with different bench/role players. We're already seeing that Brad Wanamaker and Daniel Theis can be trusted with 20 or more mpg against top competition. The Celtics will need a core 8-9 when the playoffs begin. We already know our top 5 (KW, GH, JT, JB, MS).
Over the years we've seen CBS keep things together and still win with lesser players during the regular season, so I'm not concerned about seeding. Lots of confidence in Brad S.
Even more oddly, the Celtics are required to list "Tom Brady - Probable (shoulder)" on their injury report, regardless of anything else.
I think it's actually a pretty huge sign of growth in Jaylen's game that even in his bad games you aren't seeing the total washouts that you'd see in the past. Have seen him start slow only to shoot his way to respectable lines. His only single digit game happened to coincide with facing a Kawhi/George/Beverley defense.
When, despite his own bad offensive game, he and Smart combined to shut down Kawhi.
Theis and Walker both DOUBTFUL.
Interesting that Walker wasn't downgraded today.
View: https://twitter.com/2FirstNames_/status/1199049947632586757
Interesting that Walker wasn't downgraded today.
View: https://twitter.com/2FirstNames_/status/1199049947632586757
That's some deep cover. I guess they made it your tagline not too long ago, though.
The Celtics really struggled at both ends down the stretch last night. The "let's keep going to Tatum and Brown for closely guarded midrange turnaround jumpers" offense let Sacramento climb back into the game. Sacramento was getting open looks from three down the entire stretch, too. The absence of Walker, Hayward, and Theis really stood out.
Yeah, I don’t want to be snarky, but it turns out that missing 3 starters and your two best offensive creators makes your offense bad.