2019-20 Offseason Discussion

E5 Yaz

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sure 32x 3 =96
15x3= 45
so 96-45 =51

his reputation took a big hit with the eckersley fiasco, fans around the game see david as a headcase, and if we're honest we see him as less than reliable, in 2017 we wanted him gone too

if you disagree i leave it to you to find links from credible sources that his value is higher. you cant and you know it
What's your stance on black ink?
 
Dec 14, 2019
9
In fairness, his arithmetic is spot on.
I'm not saying we have to like it. What I am saying is that it does nobody any good to set unreasonable standards for a return which only winds up with expectations that leave us disappointed. price won 7 games last year and 29 over the past 3 seasons. What would we pay for that if we were acquiring him?

we have to assume that any acquiring team is at least as smart as we are because we live in a time where the advanced data is readily available to everyone. Every team out there is looking for an edge and nobody is doing anyone else any favors. Isn't that why ownership is so keen to get under the salary threshold?

It used to be that teams who could afford it had a technological advantage but now everyone has front office wizards and physical and training specialists because the money is out there for all teams and the competitive advantages are becoming more and more difficult to exploit. It's why Bloom was hired
 

jon abbey

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The only thing worse than a terrible poster is one who won't stop posting. See you in January.
 

Van Everyman

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Before he goes ...

he doesnt have a great reputation around the sport.
This is literally the opposite of the truth. Price has an incredible reputation as a teammate. In fact, during and after the World Series, Price was referred to multiple times on TV and in print as the single most beloved teammate in his clubhouse both with the Sox and previous teams:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/12/03/former-teammates-full-praise-for-david-price/tDKMCZYg3jc3De2DrCLdgL/story.html
https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/video/david-ortiz-david-price-one-best-teammates-i-ever-had
https://www.masslive.com/redsox/2018/09/david_prices_boston_red_sox_te.html
 

brandonchristensen

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Before he goes ...


This is literally the opposite of the truth. Price has an incredible reputation as a teammate. In fact, during and after the World Series, Price was referred to multiple times on TV and in print as the single most beloved teammate in his clubhouse both with the Sox and previous teams:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/12/03/former-teammates-full-praise-for-david-price/tDKMCZYg3jc3De2DrCLdgL/story.html
https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/video/david-ortiz-david-price-one-best-teammates-i-ever-had
https://www.masslive.com/redsox/2018/09/david_prices_boston_red_sox_te.html
To be fair, they were referring to their Fortnite squad.
 

Teachdad46

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Oct 14, 2011
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sure 32x 3 =96
15x3= 45
so 96-45 =51

his reputation took a big hit with the eckersley fiasco, fans around the game see david as a headcase, and if we're honest we see him as less than reliable, in 2017 we wanted him gone too

if you disagree i leave it to you to find links from credible sources that his value is higher. you cant and you know it
If we're a go for letting fans' perceptions of players factor into their value on the field then I need to move on to some other obsession. From what I have read over his years here in Boston, David Price has been very much valued as a team mate. That may not jive with 'our' perception of him, but it appears to be consistent and, I'd think, perhaps of some value.
 

BaseballJones

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How different these two organizations are right now....

The Red Sox have very little in the minors. They are over the luxury tax threshold and are desperately trying to get under it. Their best player is a year away from leaving in free agency and so they're exploring ways to deal him, knowing that even if they do, they're not likely to get much back in return. They're talking about trading one of their best starting pitchers for money reasons. They've added Jose Peraza (62 ops+) and Martin Perez (90 era+).

The Yankees have a ton of top level talent in the minors. They are in great shape financially. Their best players are under contract for a while longer. They just signed Gerrit Cole, the best starting pitcher in baseball, to a mega deal. And now they're looking to add Josh F***ing Hader to their already stacked bullpen.

It was just a year ago that everything was different - that the Sox were the best team in baseball by a wide margin, brimming with young stars and elite pitching. And now, a year+ later, the Sox and Yankees couldn't be headed in more opposite directions.

It's so depressing.
 

JimD

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How different these two organizations are right now....

The Red Sox have very little in the minors. They are over the luxury tax threshold and are desperately trying to get under it. Their best player is a year away from leaving in free agency and so they're exploring ways to deal him, knowing that even if they do, they're not likely to get much back in return. They're talking about trading one of their best starting pitchers for money reasons. They've added Jose Peraza (62 ops+) and Martin Perez (90 era+).

The Yankees have a ton of top level talent in the minors. They are in great shape financially. Their best players are under contract for a while longer. They just signed Gerrit Cole, the best starting pitcher in baseball, to a mega deal. And now they're looking to add Josh F***ing Hader to their already stacked bullpen.

It was just a year ago that everything was different - that the Sox were the best team in baseball by a wide margin, brimming with young stars and elite pitching. And now, a year+ later, the Sox and Yankees couldn't be headed in more opposite directions.

It's so depressing.
I understand the feelings, and share them to an extent, but I would also counter with the observation that the Red Sox turned an excellent cache of prospects into a World Championship by keeping the best players and trading the surplus to fill other needs. While the Yankees are deservedly the odds-on favorites to win one or more titles in the near future, the end result remains to be seen. The 2019 Red Sox, 2018-19 Astros and 2017-19 Cubs are all excellent reminders that teams that once looked loaded on paper often underperform or otherwise stumble on the way to the victory parade.

I also think that the main subtraction this winter will be Price, and the Sox will enter the 2020 fray with an offensive core of Betts, Bogaerts, Devers, Martinez and Benintendi. While the rotation has some question marks regarding health, Rodriguez, Sale and Eovaldi has the potential to be a strong top three and the bullpen has been underrated by many. While we all want certainty, that's not a bad core to start with. If Bloom can work some of his Tampa magic after unloading the Price contract and good health favors the team, I believe this team has upside and may surprise a lot of people and be a lot of fun to watch, even if they likely will be be fighting for a wild card and not the division.
 

Rasputin

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How different these two organizations are right now....

The Red Sox have very little in the minors. They are over the luxury tax threshold and are desperately trying to get under it. Their best player is a year away from leaving in free agency and so they're exploring ways to deal him, knowing that even if they do, they're not likely to get much back in return. They're talking about trading one of their best starting pitchers for money reasons. They've added Jose Peraza (62 ops+) and Martin Perez (90 era+).

The Yankees have a ton of top level talent in the minors. They are in great shape financially. Their best players are under contract for a while longer. They just signed Gerrit Cole, the best starting pitcher in baseball, to a mega deal. And now they're looking to add Josh F***ing Hader to their already stacked bullpen.

It was just a year ago that everything was different - that the Sox were the best team in baseball by a wide margin, brimming with young stars and elite pitching. And now, a year+ later, the Sox and Yankees couldn't be headed in more opposite directions.

It's so depressing.
This was the Dave Dombrowski decision. He was hired to prioritize the short term over the long term. I wouldn't have done that, but it's a legitimate strategy. Had I been doing the job, we'd have more in the pipeline now, but we might not have had literally the best season in the history of a franchise that's over a century old. The goal is to win the world series as many times as possible before you die. Maximizing your chances of winning in the short-term is a legitimate strategy. So is maximizing the number of chances you get.

And keep this in mind.

For all their moves, the Yankees are guaranteed of nothing. The Red Sox will have most of the 2018 roster on the field at the start of 2020 and will be one of a relatively few teams with a chance to win the World Series. More things will have to go right for the Sox to win than for, say, the Yankees or Astros, but we're going to have a team that competes for the post season and that's better than a lot of fans have it.
 

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How different these two organizations are right now....

The Red Sox have very little in the minors. They are over the luxury tax threshold and are desperately trying to get under it. Their best player is a year away from leaving in free agency and so they're exploring ways to deal him, knowing that even if they do, they're not likely to get much back in return. They're talking about trading one of their best starting pitchers for money reasons. They've added Jose Peraza (62 ops+) and Martin Perez (90 era+).

The Yankees have a ton of top level talent in the minors. They are in great shape financially. Their best players are under contract for a while longer. They just signed Gerrit Cole, the best starting pitcher in baseball, to a mega deal. And now they're looking to add Josh F***ing Hader to their already stacked bullpen.

It was just a year ago that everything was different - that the Sox were the best team in baseball by a wide margin, brimming with young stars and elite pitching. And now, a year+ later, the Sox and Yankees couldn't be headed in more opposite directions.

It's so depressing.
I'll never understand this line of thinking.

The Sox won the World Series in historic fashion in 2018. They won it in an extremely enjoyable fashion in 2013. The Yankees haven't won a World Series since 2009, and before that 2000. That's when things were depressing--in 2000. It's been an amazing decade after an amazing decade.

On paper, the Yankees look great. But they haven't won shit. And their young players are going to start getting expensive pretty soon and tough decisions are going to have to be made. The Sox may be rebooting a bit, but they still have a core of excellent, fun players, even if they do trade Mookie. I mean, the Nats lost Harper and proceeded to win a World Series. Stuff happens. Things might look a whole lot different once again a year+ later.

Someone once told me that that's why they actually play the games.
 

Plympton91

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What am I missing about Chad De la Guerra that he is not part of the discussion at 2B or cheap utility man?

his last three seasons have been very good for a middle infielder, each year moving up a level. The biggest knock seems to me to be that he was 2 years older than you’d like at each level, and that’s not inconsequential admittedly. His K rate is Dalbecian as well, but declined some from AA to AAA, which is good.

Nonetheless, we keep seeing that Chatham and his empty batting average is an option. They saw plenty of Marco swing-at-everything Hernandez all last fall to know what he’s bringing. By contrast, De la Guerra has had roughly average walk rates, solid isoSLG, to an OPS of 805 in AA in 2018 and 901 in AAA last year I would think there’s room for at least an open competition between these three in spring training.
 

Cesar Crespo

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What am I missing about Chad De la Guerra that he is not part of the discussion at 2B or cheap utility man?

his last three seasons have been very good for a middle infielder, each year moving up a level. The biggest knock seems to me to be that he was 2 years older than you’d like at each level, and that’s not inconsequential admittedly. His K rate is Dalbecian as well, but declined some from AA to AAA, which is good.

Nonetheless, we keep seeing that Chatham and his empty batting average is an option. They saw plenty of Marco swing-at-everything Hernandez all last fall to know what he’s bringing. By contrast, De la Guerra has had roughly average walk rates, solid isoSLG, to an OPS of 805 in AA in 2018 and 901 in AAA last year I would think there’s room for at least an open competition between these three in spring training.
Chad is limited to 2b and he's not particularly good there either. I'm not high on Chatham but he's a good defender.
 

BaseballJones

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I'll never understand this line of thinking.

The Sox won the World Series in historic fashion in 2018. They won it in an extremely enjoyable fashion in 2013. The Yankees haven't won a World Series since 2009, and before that 2000. That's when things were depressing--in 2000. It's been an amazing decade after an amazing decade.

On paper, the Yankees look great. But they haven't won shit. And their young players are going to start getting expensive pretty soon and tough decisions are going to have to be made. The Sox may be rebooting a bit, but they still have a core of excellent, fun players, even if they do trade Mookie. I mean, the Nats lost Harper and proceeded to win a World Series. Stuff happens. Things might look a whole lot different once again a year+ later.

Someone once told me that that's why they actually play the games.
Yeah I'm not NOT going to watch or root for the Sox, even if they trade Mookie. But it's pretty clear that the direction these two franchises are going is...very different. Hopefully the Sox can still make it work on the field.
 

nvalvo

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What am I missing about Chad De la Guerra that he is not part of the discussion at 2B or cheap utility man?

his last three seasons have been very good for a middle infielder, each year moving up a level. The biggest knock seems to me to be that he was 2 years older than you’d like at each level, and that’s not inconsequential admittedly. His K rate is Dalbecian as well, but declined some from AA to AAA, which is good.

Nonetheless, we keep seeing that Chatham and his empty batting average is an option. They saw plenty of Marco swing-at-everything Hernandez all last fall to know what he’s bringing. By contrast, De la Guerra has had roughly average walk rates, solid isoSLG, to an OPS of 805 in AA in 2018 and 901 in AAA last year I would think there’s room for at least an open competition between these three in spring training.
I think the age/level is the biggest knock, as you note, but one more thing to keep in mind with him is that his BABIPs are all really high.

Maybe we see more in Ft. Myers.
 

Savin Hillbilly

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The wrong side of the bridge....
Another thing that might cause skepticism about de la Guerra is that his K rates are pretty high. A guy who strikes out more than a quarter of the time in AA and AAA, in what should be his peak years, seems likely to be an easy out in the majors where defenses will limit his BABIP. Given that he doesn't bring that much defensively, he seems like a classic "tweener" -- not that bad at anything, but not quite good enough at anything either.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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Yeah I'm not NOT going to watch or root for the Sox, even if they trade Mookie. But it's pretty clear that the direction these two franchises are going is...very different. Hopefully the Sox can still make it work on the field.
Well boo hoo.

We can’t be perennial contenders, keep everyone, stock that’s farm and buy big free agents and do it all at once. The game is cyclical and people are too down on what this team can still do next year.

For everyone wringing their hands over Dombroswki stripping the farm system, I still have yet to see anyone other than possibly Moncacda that has turned into something valuable.

Farm systems are for two things, stocking the big league club and trading. He seems to have done a pretty damn good job protecting guys like Devers, Benintendi, etc and sending out the excess. It’s time to get over the Anderson Espinozas and Manuel Margots...
 

DeadlySplitter

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My main complaint is ownership seems to have no long-term vision. This is the second major philosophical shift in the front office in four years. Our core is still here for at least one more year - why not go for it in 2020 and then reset?

We must get better at drafting pitching, period. We're fortunate we've won so much in the 2010s without doing this, and is the main reason we were so inconsistent this decade too.

the Yankees got really lucky getting Chapman for cheap on a domestic charge, then flipping him as a rental for a stud 2B (Torres) then signing Chapman back. They also hit on flipping Miller to the Indians at the same time for a pitching prospect that turned into James Paxton for last year and one more year now... of course a lot of their farm has panned out (Judge, Severino, Sanchez to an extent), but the Chapman & Torres value will always strike me the most when thinking about their current window.

when looking up details again of these Yankee trades, I found this quote from Cashman: “We’re trying to get back to a situation where we can build an überteam, and a sustainable one."

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/01/sports/baseball/yankees-trade-andrew-miller-to-the-indians.html
as great as 2018 was, if Sale's elbow is fucked and Eovaldi never returns to 2018 form, we screwed up our sustainability in the following offseason. but you can say this was all precipitated by no pitching prospects in the farm anyways...
 

Reverend

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We must get better at drafting pitching, period.
Many interpretations of the data suggest that that may not actually be possible; it’s just statistics and not everyone lands on the mean. But then we build stories around why the lottery winners are good at it. The reality is that it’s just something that happened, because something always happens and when you have a lot of teams, a lot of different things happen.

Or so that interpretation goes.

If that’s the case, creating an obligation out of doing the impossible seems like an unfair bar to demand that the new management team clear, yeah?
 

jon abbey

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I don't think you necessarily need to draft great pitching, DS, as you said yourself, BOS has won plenty recently without doing much of that.

But under the current CBA, you absolutely have to have as much pre-arb talent in place as possible, and the more you have, the more you can spend to fill the other holes. I would say there are four basic ways to do this currently:

1) Drafting. (NY has not been good at this, with the huge exception in every way of Judge)
2) International signings. (This is where NY has really focused in recent years, Severino/Sanchez, Dominguez coming, and a ton of young high-ceiling pitchers on the way).
3) Other team's pre-arb castoffs. (NY has put Voit, Urshela and Tauchman in place this way since Aug 2018, this helps so much with overall payroll).
4) Developing the talent that you have. (This is something that teams have started to focus on more in recent years, the book The MVP Machine has many different examples, and a good one is CLE, who had three draft picks from 2016 in their rotation last year and all holding their own, none of whom were giant prospects. This got 33 year old Matt Blake the pitching coach job in NY, even though he has never made a mound visit before a crowd.)
 

Reverend

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Teams make trades for all kinds of reasons:

- To save money.
- To add minor league prospects.
- To get rid of problem players.
- To, you know, get better.
Your first answer is literally “money.”
 

BaseballJones

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Well boo hoo.

We can’t be perennial contenders, keep everyone, stock that’s farm and buy big free agents and do it all at once. The game is cyclical and people are too down on what this team can still do next year.
I agree that you can't do it all, year in and year out.

For everyone wringing their hands over Dombroswki stripping the farm system, I still have yet to see anyone other than possibly Moncacda that has turned into something valuable.
I didn't mind "stripping" the farm system, as it brought in key pieces in the greatest season in Sox history. I don't like the overall direction they're going though, especially compared to the Yankees. You can say "boo hoo" all you want, but I can't imagine YOU are happy with this direction either - with possibly trading Price and Betts to get under the luxury tax, with very little in the farm system, while the Yankees absolutely load up. I mean, ARE you happy with this situation? Maybe you are.

Farm systems are for two things, stocking the big league club and trading. He seems to have done a pretty damn good job protecting guys like Devers, Benintendi, etc and sending out the excess. It’s time to get over the Anderson Espinozas and Manuel Margots...
I couldn't care less about Espinoza and Margot.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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Your first answer is literally “money.”
No kidding. That was the topic at hand.

I'll ask you the same question I just asked PP - Are YOU happy with the current direction the Sox are going - possibly trading Price and Betts in order to save money, while the Yankees load up? Because Betts doesn't fit the other categories: he's not a problem, they won't likely get much in return (so everyone here says), and dealing him sure won't make them better.

Teams like the Red Sox shouldn't be in a position to deal the best player they've developed in eons because they need to save money. I get that they don't have infinite resources, but something has likely gone wrong if they are in this position. Are you happy with this?
 

Savin Hillbilly

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The wrong side of the bridge....
Because Betts doesn't fit the other categories: he's not a problem, they won't likely get much in return (so everyone here says), and dealing him sure won't make them better.
1. He's a "problem" in the sense that the very sizable value he contributes is likely to be gone a year from now, and the Sox have to decide what is the best strategy for minimizing the impact of that loss.
2. Whoever trades for him acquires the same problem, which is why they won't get as much in return as everybody instinctively thinks Mookie Betts ought to fetch (but still more than they'd get by just hanging onto him).
3. Dealing him certainly won't make them better in 2020. But 2020 is not and should not be the only year they are thinking about.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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1. He's a "problem" in the sense that the very sizable value he contributes is likely to be gone a year from now, and the Sox have to decide what is the best strategy for minimizing the impact of that loss.
2. Whoever trades for him acquires the same problem, which is why they won't get as much in return as everybody instinctively thinks Mookie Betts ought to fetch (but still more than they'd get by just hanging onto him).
3. Dealing him certainly won't make them better in 2020. But 2020 is not and should not be the only year they are thinking about.
I get all that. And I’m not happy about it. Especially as the Yankees turn into an absolute monster. Are you?
 

Cesar Crespo

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I get all that. And I’m not happy about it. Especially as the Yankees turn into an absolute monster. Are you?
Why does any of this matter? You do realize this can completely change over the course of the season right? Teams only have 40 roster spots and some will be forced to trade prospects or lose them for nothing.

People were all gloom and doom after 2012 too. That worked out ok.

edit: I think the farm sucks and due to drafting, not the trades. It still doesn't matter much. The difference between the worst farm and the best farm is an extra 2-4 prospects.
 

Savin Hillbilly

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The wrong side of the bridge....
I get all that. And I’m not happy about it. Especially as the Yankees turn into an absolute monster. Are you?
Well, of course not. I'm not happy about the fact that I'm growing old and eventually dying, either, but that doesn't mean that it's anybody's fault or that anything can be done to change it.

2018 was a helluva party. This is the hangover.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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Well, of course not. I'm not happy about the fact that I'm growing old and eventually dying, either, but that doesn't mean that it's anybody's fault or that anything can be done to change it.

2018 was a helluva party. This is the hangover.
[/QUOTE]

LOL well I never said I could do something about it. I’m just not happy about it, and it sounds like you agree with me. As a fan, especially one talking on a Red Sox discussion board, I think it’s perfectly fair to voice that displeasure.

Your party/hangover analogy is good though. Pretty apt, actually.
 

jon abbey

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The difference between the worst farm and the best farm is an extra 2-4 prospects.
I mean, I guess this is theoretically true if the 2-4 are Trout and Acuna and their clones, but in general it really isn't the case. The Rays and Padres and Yankees have a ton of prospect depth. This is a bit out of date now, but in Dec 2017 I asked Jim Callis a question for his mailbag:

=================================

Q: if you were making a combined top 50 list of Yankees and Red Sox prospects now, how many Yankees would be on there? I'm guessing at least 35-40, but would love to hear your take.

A: Interesting. The Red Sox had the best farm system in baseball as recently as mid-2015 but have slipped into the bottom third after a slew of graduations and trades. The Yankees also have promoted several of their best prospects to New York and dealt others during the last two years, yet still have one of the game's deepest systems.

Bearing in mind that our current Boston and New York Top 30s on Prospect Watch were mostly assembled in July and will undergo some major revisions when we update them in February, a combined Top 50 would include about 35 Yankees and 15 Red Sox. The contrast would be even more stark at the top, with left-hander Jay Groome and third baseman Michael Chavis the only Boston farmhands who would crack a combined Top 10.

==================================

I think that would still be the case, about 35 Yankees to 15 Red Sox, but I will try to ask him again this winter and get a new answer.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I mean, I guess this is theoretically true if the 2-4 are Trout and Acuna and their clones, but in general it really isn't the case. The Rays and Padres and Yankees have a ton of prospect depth. This is a bit out of date now, but in Dec 2017 I asked Jim Callis a question for his mailbag:

=================================

Q: if you were making a combined top 50 list of Yankees and Red Sox prospects now, how many Yankees would be on there? I'm guessing at least 35-40, but would love to hear your take.

A: Interesting. The Red Sox had the best farm system in baseball as recently as mid-2015 but have slipped into the bottom third after a slew of graduations and trades. The Yankees also have promoted several of their best prospects to New York and dealt others during the last two years, yet still have one of the game's deepest systems.

Bearing in mind that our current Boston and New York Top 30s on Prospect Watch were mostly assembled in July and will undergo some major revisions when we update them in February, a combined Top 50 would include about 35 Yankees and 15 Red Sox. The contrast would be even more stark at the top, with left-hander Jay Groome and third baseman Michael Chavis the only Boston farmhands who would crack a combined Top 10.

==================================

I think that would still be the case, about 35 Yankees to 15 Red Sox, but I will try to ask him again this winter and get a new answer.
I was talking top 100 guys. A top 50 list of the Redsox/Yanks will consist of a lot of players who aren't driving the rankings.
 

jon abbey

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I was talking top 100 guys. A top 50 list of the Redsox/Yanks will consist of a lot of players who aren't driving the rankings.
OK, but so what? When you talk about the best teams in baseball, you don’t just talk about the best hundred major leaguers and ignore everyone else, star power is obviously important but so is depth. This is even more true for the top farm systems where there are 100+ players in every system, not just 25.
 

Cesar Crespo

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OK, but so what? When you talk about the best teams in baseball, you don’t just talk about the best hundred major leaguers and ignore everyone else, star power is obviously important but so is depth. This is even more true for the top farm systems where there are 100+ players in every system, not just 25.
Because the top is where all the value comes from. No one cares what a minor league teams record is. Yoan Moncada is worth an infinite amount of Luis Alexander Basabe's.

100+ players in every system, 95% filler. Top 30-50 Team list are mostly filler too.
 

jon abbey

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Because the top is where all the value comes from.
I feel like you're just making declarative statements now for no reason, but this isn't true.

No one cares what a minor league teams record is.
Agreed, no one is talking about this.

Yoan Moncada is worth an infinite amount of Luis Alexander Basabe's.
Sure, except when Basabe turns out to be Juan Soto or Luis Severino, two guys off the top of my head who were not especially highly regarded initially.

Top 30-50 Team list are mostly filler too.
It really depends on the system, this is what I am trying to explain to you.
 

jon abbey

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Cesar Crespo

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It really depends on the system, this is what I am trying to explain to you.
Can you prove it? Even when the Sox had an incredibly deep farm system, Basabe was still a fringe top 10 guy. Most prospects fail. It's why some people are fine with trading them away.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Dec 22, 2002
14,904
I could come up with a lot more examples quickly if I did this professionally, but Shane Bieber was on no prospect lists coming into 2018, and now is one of the most valuable assets in all of MLB, just two years later.

https://www.letsgotribe.com/2018/5/31/17412706/shane-bieber-scouting-report-mlb-clippers-indians-pitchers
Even just sticking to the Indians, Corey Kuber (now a Ranger) and Jose Ramirez were two more guys who no one saw developing like they did until they actually did.
He proves my point. The Sox could have a guy or two come from out of nowhere and are now a top 10-15 farm system. He was on nobodies list. One or two guys can change the whole outlook of the farm.
 

Cesar Crespo

79
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Dec 22, 2002
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This is why you're much better off if you have 30 prospects with potential as opposed to 10, this is my main point here.
I agree with this. The thing is, the difference between the 52nd best prospect in the minors and the 98th is pretty small. When you start comparing the difference between the 24th best prospect on the Yankees to the 24th best prospect on the Redsox, it becomes pretty pointless.
 

jon abbey

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Jul 15, 2005
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I agree with this. The thing is, the difference between the 52nd best prospect in the minors and the 98th is pretty small. When you start comparing the difference between the 24th best prospect on the Yankees to the 24th best prospect on the Redsox, it becomes pretty pointless.
But it really isn't, just looking at the first list I see for 2017 NY prospects:

https://www.prospects1500.com/top-50-lists/new-york-yankees-top-50-prospects-2017/
Yes, Judge and Gleyber are near the top, but go down to #36 and #38 and you see Domingo German, who won 18 games last year for NY, and Giovanny Gallegos, who was one of the best relievers in the NL for STL.

It's not a complicated concept, prospects (like all MLB players) are not sure things, so the more you have with genuine talent, the better, both for your system and for trades (Gallegos was part of the Luke Voit deal).
 

chawson

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Aug 1, 2006
2,116
Red Sox and Toronto are talking about a Price trade. Nothing is close. As is the case with most teams, the holdup is how much money the Red Sox would pick up.

https://theathletic.com/1480955/2019/12/22/rosenthal-david-price-in-play-as-blue-jays-weigh-options-to-upgrade-pitching-while-red-sox-look-to-dump-salary/
Hmm. Not where I’d thought he’d go.

Grichuk’s a slight negative asset, right? Would it be better to take on his contract (4/$44, $10.4 aav) rather than pay down the $12m/yr floated in this article?

The Jays do need outfielders, but maybe they wanna roll with Alford in CF.
 

Tyrone Biggums

nfl meets tri-annually at a secret country mansion
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Aug 15, 2006
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I don't like the idea of dealing Price in the division at all. Especially paying him to pitch for a team like the Blue Jays who might actually compete with the Sox soon.