2018 Patriots: All-Purpose Roster Discussions Thread

Papelbon's Poutine

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Spotrac shows $3.38M of dead money for 2018, which makes sense as his salary would become guaranteed Week 1:

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-england-patriots/dwayne-allen-9874/

They may be missing the $500K roster bonus in that, but not sure where that goes. I thought teams could spread out the cap hit of players cut after June 1st, so maybe the dead cap charge would be half that.
Apologies, I was almost certain it said zero for 2018 so they either updated or (much more likely) I looked at the wrong year. Mea culpa.
 

Harry Hooper

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Excluding Develin, will the Pats have a 3rd running back active for Sunday night's game?
 

BigSoxFan

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I am concerned about Cannon, who left last night’s game with a concussion.

Waddle v. Mack, uhhhh
Dolphins ran all over Chicago with Frank Gore’s corpse. I expect us to do the same along with spreading them out and working the short passing game. That’s certainly a concerning matchup but confident we can gameplay around it.
 

EL Jeffe

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Lombardi was speculating on Twitter that if Cannon did indeed suffer a concussion, that could be it for him for the season. I'm assuming this is based on Cannon's concussion history. The dude has overcome a lot to play football, hopefully he's okay.
 

PedroKsBambino

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I don't know that he's a roster fit (no special teams value) but didn't Pats have the just-released Terrelle Pryor in for a look see a year or two ago?
 

SMU_Sox

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I read somewhere (on mobile) that they have enough, roughly, to afford another 2.8m contract after saving enough for bonuses. I would love to see them add a guy like Deone Bucannon.
 

SMU_Sox

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Any TEs available? :(
I still like Hollister as a receiver but he can’t stay healthy this year. On a related note while free agency is generally preferable than the draft for immediate production in the long run this looks like it could be a good TE class (depends in part unfortunately on underclassmen coming out). Last year for comparison was not a notable year for TE prospects. We will see how it shakes out. I’m already looking forward to beginning to dive into some YouTube scouting.
 

( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)

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If Michel is out for a significant time, may I suggest trading for Chris Ivory? New 2 year contract with the Bills for not a lot of sum:

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/chris-ivory-7085
I've always liked the player but lining up at RB for the Patriots this year seems to be a one-way ticket to the injury tent and Ivory's career has been defined as being brittle. Probably because he takes a bowling ball approach, which is what also makes him like-able.
I think it's be tough to give up assets for a guy with his injury history. He's played 16 games only once in his 8 year career.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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The word "interest" should be in quotes.

Bryant McFadden
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#Saints #Eagles #Pats are all showing interest in trading for
@P2. Per source Patrick Peterson.
 

eustis22

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Mike Gillislee is out on the street.
I am sorry but I disagree with your preference. Gillislee cannot find holes anymore....the preseason pretty much proved that and his getting cut by other team(s) confirmed it. 1 yard off tackle dives and getting stuffed at the one is no way to go thru the NFL, son. Theres gfood reason he;'s out on the street.
 

DrewDawg

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The word "interest" should be in quotes.

Bryant McFadden
@BMac_SportsTalk
#Saints #Eagles #Pats are all showing interest in trading for
@P2. Per source Patrick Peterson.

Yeah, that sounds like Peterson told his cousin where he wants to go.
 

BigSoxFan

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Yeah, that sounds like Peterson told his cousin where he wants to go.
Isn’t that half the battle in this day and age of superstar trades? He clearly wants to go to a contender so it makes sense that he has signaled out those 3 teams.

Peterson is an All-Pro corner so I’m sure the Pats are interested in a vacuum. But we obviously have no idea about how willing the Cardinals are to trade him and what they’d ask for. I suspect it would be a Mack-like asking price (and it should be). Saints can’t pay that price due to prior trades. Philly can. New England can.

The defense clearly needs front 7 help but what is out there? Probably not much. Adding a guy like Peterson to the defense would be a very good move for a team that expects to face teams like KC and Pittsburgh in the playoffs.
 

OurF'ingCity

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Isn’t that half the battle in this day and age of superstar trades? He clearly wants to go to a contender so it makes sense that he has signaled out those 3 teams.

Peterson is an All-Pro corner so I’m sure the Pats are interested in a vacuum. But we obviously have no idea about how willing the Cardinals are to trade him and what they’d ask for. I suspect it would be a Mack-like asking price (and it should be). Saints can’t pay that price due to prior trades. Philly can. New England can.

The defense clearly needs front 7 help but what is out there? Probably not much. Adding a guy like Peterson to the defense would be a very good move for a team that expects to face teams like KC and Pittsburgh in the playoffs.
Do the Pats ever make blockbuster trades like that? Even when they got Moss it was for a single, fourth-round pick. I'd put the likelihood of the Pats trading for Peterson somewhere between zero and five percent.
 

BigSoxFan

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Do the Pats ever make blockbuster trades like that? Even when they got Moss it was for a single, fourth-round pick. I'd put the likelihood of the Pats trading for Peterson somewhere between zero and five percent.
Blockbuster NFL trades, especially midseason ones, are really rare so of course not. But people for the past decade have always tried to say, "Pats never do this, Pats never do that" and then they go ahead and do it. End of the day, they evaluate every opportunity or potential opportunity on its own merit. I think Arizona is going to call Peterson's bluff here unless they get a team to bite on a steep price.

But this isn't Anthony Davis level wishcasting either. Peterson has stated he wants out and it appears that he has interest in the Patriots. It wouldn't shock me at all if the Pats were involved if the Cardinals actually did put him on the market. We're talking about a 6 time Pro Bowler and 3 time first team All-Pro. He's a generational talent. This year, I read that passer rating against him is like 40. Adding Peterson basically forces teams to throw the ball to Gilmore and/or slot guys. He also has special teams value and is still only 28. There would be incredible value to adding him.

I would give up two #1's for Peterson without even blinking. He is that good.
 

Saints Rest

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Is it within the rules of the CBA for the Pats to trade for a guy, PP in this case, and then redo his contract to make it more cap-friendly? I have a vague memory that that is what happened with Moss. (UPDATE from Miguel's article cited below: the Pats would have to create the room first, make the trade, and then renegotiate to create fresh room.)

Otherwise, there's really no way for the Pats to trade for PP without other moves to create the cap space needed to get thru the year. Miguel has a new article just up on BSJ about how they could sign a player like PP with a big salary remaining:
In order for the Patriots to acquire a player whose new cap number would be higher than the Patriots current cap space of $5,262,629 — say, Cardinals cornerback Patrick Peterson — one of four things or a combination of the four would have to happen:

1.) Lower a current Patriot player’s cap number by converting most of his remaining salary into a signing bonus like they recently did with Stephon Gilmore.
2.) Extend a player with a large salary lowering his salary to the minimum as part of the extension. Stephen Gostkowski makes the most sense for this scenario.
3.) The player’s old team could, before the trade, pay the player a signing bonus while lowering his 2018 salary. Doing so would lower his cap number for the Patriots.
4.) Include a current Patriot in the trade to offset partially the incoming cap hit.


 

Saints Rest

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Blockbuster NFL trades, especially midseason ones, are really rare so of course not. But people for the past decade have always tried to say, "Pats never do this, Pats never do that" and then they go ahead and do it. End of the day, they evaluate every opportunity or potential opportunity on its own merit. I think Arizona is going to call Peterson's bluff here unless they get a team to bite on a steep price.

But this isn't Anthony Davis level wishcasting either. Peterson has stated he wants out and it appears that he has interest in the Patriots. It wouldn't shock me at all if the Pats were involved if the Cardinals actually did put him on the market. We're talking about a 6 time Pro Bowler and 3 time first team All-Pro. He's a generational talent. This year, I read that passer rating against him is like 40. Adding Peterson basically forces teams to throw the ball to Gilmore and/or slot guys. He also has special teams value and is still only 28. There would be incredible value to adding him.

I would give up two #1's for Peterson without even blinking. He is that good.
It actually would force teams to throw to TE's and RB's, which plays into the Pats biggest weaknesses. But it could allow the Pats to double-team guys like Kelce, etc as they could leave Gilmore and PP in single coverage -- dual islands, if you will.
 

RedOctober3829

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Blockbuster NFL trades, especially midseason ones, are really rare so of course not. But people for the past decade have always tried to say, "Pats never do this, Pats never do that" and then they go ahead and do it. End of the day, they evaluate every opportunity or potential opportunity on its own merit. I think Arizona is going to call Peterson's bluff here unless they get a team to bite on a steep price.

But this isn't Anthony Davis level wishcasting either. Peterson has stated he wants out and it appears that he has interest in the Patriots. It wouldn't shock me at all if the Pats were involved if the Cardinals actually did put him on the market. We're talking about a 6 time Pro Bowler and 3 time first team All-Pro. He's a generational talent. This year, I read that passer rating against him is like 40. Adding Peterson basically forces teams to throw the ball to Gilmore and/or slot guys. He also has special teams value and is still only 28. There would be incredible value to adding him.

I would give up two #1's for Peterson without even blinking. He is that good.
They could get Arizona to restructure PP's contract to give him more money in a signing bonus to lower his cap numbers. Of course, the Pats will probably have to restructure a contract or 2 on their end to have enough money to absorb PP plus have enough cap space to make it through the year.
 

BigSoxFan

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It actually would force teams to throw to TE's and RB's, which plays into the Pats biggest weaknesses. But it could allow the Pats to double-team guys like Kelce, etc as they could leave Gilmore and PP in single coverage -- dual islands, if you will.
Yup. I think it would basically create an entirely new defense. Peterson is great in man but he can play zone too so the possibilities would be almost endless. I think he would allow more safety coverage in the middle of the field as you let Gilmore and PP lock up their own guys. Teams would almost be forced to use more bunch formations.

Nothing would surprise me with Belichick. I could see a major move like this or absolutely nothing, not even a Van Noy type acquisition.
 

BigJimEd

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Patriots don't need much cap space for rest of the season. After the deadline next week any pickup will be cheap. They aren't paying a guy off the street a ton of money.
Any incentive that isn't already counted against the cap, doesn't need to be accounted for. If Gronk or Brady hit NLTBE incentives those can be deducted against next year's number. They don't need to save space for them.

Peterson has 11M in salary. No game day bonuses or anything similar that I see. So trading for him today, he would have a cap hit of a little under 6.2M. If they traded after this week's game then it falls to 5.5. Just over what the Pat's currently have available.

Including an existing CB like J McCourty or possibly Rowe (next week) in a deal and they are under the cap.

The cap isn't really an obstacle here. Price tag may be a different story.
 

eustis22

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Do the Pats ever make blockbuster trades like that?
Do the pats ever sit on the ball with 1:30 and a TO left?

Do the Pats ever not try to take away a teams best offensive weapon?

Do the Pats ever punt from inside the oppo 40?

Things Change.
 

Saints Rest

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Patriots don't need much cap space for rest of the season. After the deadline next week any pickup will be cheap. They aren't paying a guy off the street a ton of money.
Any incentive that isn't already counted against the cap, doesn't need to be accounted for. If Gronk or Brady hit NLTBE incentives those can be deducted against next year's number. They don't need to save space for them.

Peterson has 11M in salary. No game day bonuses or anything similar that I see. So trading for him today, he would have a cap hit of a little under 6.2M. If they traded after this week's game then it falls to 5.5. Just over what the Pat's currently have available.

Including an existing CB like J McCourty or possibly Rowe (next week) in a deal and they are under the cap.

The cap isn't really an obstacle here. Price tag may be a different story.
According to Miguel, (and I'm going to go with him here), you are not correct. There are 6 areas where the Pats may need additional cap space, none of which involve trading for a new player:
  1. Active roster bonuses. The only NLTBE incentive that counts immediately.
  2. Injuries. If they move someone to IR, they not only need to pay that person, but they need to pay his replacement.
  3. Duke Dawson. If he returns from IR, his salary goes up.
  4. A minimum salary player extension.
  5. Malcolm Mitchell. If the Pats settle the MM grievance this year, there will be a cap hit.
  6. Kenny Britt. Ditto
 

DrewDawg

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Do the Pats ever make blockbuster trades like that? Even when they got Moss it was for a single, fourth-round pick. I'd put the likelihood of the Pats trading for Peterson somewhere between zero and five percent.
I don't know--they've made big deadline trades before, they're one of the most active deadline teams. They've acquired Talib, traded out Collins and JG. Granted 2 of those were outgoing, but we know they'll talk.
 

BigJimEd

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According to Miguel, (and I'm going to go with him here), you are not correct. There are 6 areas where the Pats may need additional cap space, none of which involve trading for a new player:
  1. Active roster bonuses. The only NLTBE incentive that counts immediately.
  2. Injuries. If they move someone to IR, they not only need to pay that person, but they need to pay his replacement.
  3. Duke Dawson. If he returns from IR, his salary goes up.
  4. A minimum salary player extension.
  5. Malcolm Mitchell. If the Pats settle the MM grievance this year, there will be a cap hit.
  6. Kenny Britt. Ditto
I forgot about ther injury grievances. Yes those could add a decent amount. I think Britt was around 1M and Mitchell about 600K.

I don't have access to Miguel but where am i wrong? Does he believe the cap will be an obstacle for this trade?
Injuries? I mentioned signing players. I don't think it is going to take significant salary to sign anyone off the street for half a season.
What active roster bonus that they haven't already counted for?

I'm just not seeing anything of significant cap size that would get in the way. All teams like to have some wiggle room for emergencies but they don't need a ton.
Making the trade at the deadline with McCourty (expendable with Peterson) included would put them about 1.5 under at that point. More than enough for injury replacements but possibly a little tight depending on the grievances. nothing they couldn't work around though.
 

bakahump

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Can we still cut Allen and Save some $? I know with the Gronk injury it might not be a good idea....but from a pure talent stand point PP is a much bigger piece of the puzzle then Dwayne Allen?
 

Jimbodandy

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Anyone looking for offensive help with any available cash hasn't watched the games. Or looked at the numbers. Or doesn't remember last year's Super Bowl.

I wouldn't keel over with surprise if an OT was added. But they need help on defense about 100x more than offense. They need help in the front 11.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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Wait, what?

I’ve watched all the games. Like the one where Hill blew his knee up, the one where Burkhead got messed up, the one Gronk missed with two injuries...etc. They need a healthy body at RB, even if that means a street FA, White can’t keep up this amount of usage and they don’t have the receiving corps to basically abandon the running game. I’m not suggesting they go out and trade a first for someone they can barely squeeze in under the cap, but they’ve shown they can find cheap RB help pretty easily. Spending multiple firsts (as suggested up thread) for PP is foolish. Their defensive backfield is perfectly cromulent.

Any big move should be a coverage LB. I don’t see how that’s argued as not the biggest hole right now. If they can pick up a cheap RB, they absolutely should.