I have to totally agree with all of this except the last part as they both should be behind LeBron but at the very least he has to be in this conversation with those two. I mean cmon.
Flying under the radar because his team is ass, but Ayton had a career night against Denver, going 16/20 for 33 points and 14 rebounds (24 points came in the second quarter), and chipping in 4 steals as well. What is the most impressive to me is if you watch the highlights, he isn't getting any great service here; he's getting most of his buckets on offensive rebounds and post-ups. As good as Luka has been, it's hard to say that Phoenix took the wrong player #1.
Pretty sure the trade kicker only applies to this year. Something in the CBA about trade kickers not being enforceable if it puts a player over the max salary allowed (35% of the cap). So yes still a shitty contract, but it isn't 50 million plus
He had 10 offensive rebounds last night (out of his 14 total). He's a beast. The one thing that surprised me the most is how good he is at knocking down the 10-15 footer. Like everyone else, I'm sure he'll be stepping out to the 3 point line in a couple years, but for now, the Suns have to love what he's giving them. And yeah, I'm not sure how Luka and Booker would have worked together. Luka and DSJ are having their issues in Dallas, and Booker is actually really good.
Question is how transformative a player can be if he’s not a ball handler. Ayton’s skills make him dependent on other players (like the non-existent point guards in PHX). Even if he develops a shot, the nature of his position caps his control over the game.
It seems like the NBA’s new-ish rules are creating a similar dynamic to the NFL. Ball handlers are like QBs and they can have a outsized effect on the court in comparison to big men and spot up shooters. That makes a guy like Luka inherently more valuable than Ayton. The blue chip big man is like a really good wide receiver - helpful, but not all that impactful without a strong supporting cast. But a wing like Luka, someone with size, scoring potential, shooting ability, and playmaking skills, is the qb who can create wins without the same need for help.
Apologies for the cross sports references, I just find the comparison interesting. I think Luka would be amazing next to Booker because then you would have multiple playmakers on the floor playing off each other (and would the defense really be any worse than with ayton?). I think the suns made a huge mistake passing on him. They could’ve filled their big man slot with Montrezl Harrell on the cheap (or some other big man that was available for a bargain basement price). How often do you find 6’8 players who can pass, handle, and shoot from all areas of the floor? That’s the ideal player in 2018.
DSJ hits a crafty lay-up with ~25 seconds left in the game to give the Mavs a one point lead. However it was what he did next that merits mention. With ~12 seconds left, Paul George, who led all scorers in this game with 36 points (12-24) gets the ball at the top of the arc and DSJ proceeds to completely shut him down with fantastic defense. Mavs end up winning 105-103 after being down for much of the fourth.
The Mavericks aren't trading Smith Jr. anytime soon imho...
The Mavericks aren't trading Smith Jr. anytime soon imho...
I think given what we’ve seen; it’s reasonable to project that Ayton could be as good as Anthony Davis is right now. Yeah maybe it’s better to have a versatile wing than a dominant big man given the current style of play; but Ayton projects to be a franchise, cornerstone piece with first-team All NBA potential. That’s the right pick even if a better player was taken afterwards. Nobody criticized the Rockets for taking Hakeem over Jordan.
There is the small matter of that whole pesky "defense" side of the game, but hey, why quibble during the holidays?
Obviously Davis was a better defender when he came into the league; but Ayton does have great physical tools and a very good motor, as evidenced by his 10 offensive rebounds last night. He’s been slow at adapting to the speed of the game on defense; but that’s normal for a rookie. I think he’s probably going to be a pretty good NBA defender, but he’s unlikely to be as good as Davis.
I want to note that I said it’s not unreasonable to believe right now that Ayton could one day be as good as Anthony Davis. I did not say that I think he’s GOING to be as good as Davis. I just think given what he’s shown so far, I think it’s fair to believe he’s going to be one of the 10 most dominant players in the league in when he’s 25.
Defense was the primary reason many were down on Ayton as a prospect. Defense matters more for a center, than it does for a guard. Offensively gifted bigs who cannot protect the rim do not seem to contribute to winning basketball. Unless Ayton's defense improves to at least average, he is not going to sniff the top 10, no matter how dominant he is offensively.
Ayton's performance in college gave no indication that he was going to be a plus defender like Davis. While blocks and steals do not tell the whole story, they are pretty good indicators. AD blocked 186 shots and had 54 steals in his lone college season. Ayton blocked 66 and had 20 steals. The disparity while not as great, holds in their rookie years. AD averaged 2.2 blocks per 36. Ayton is at 1.1. That's Kevin Love, Enes Kanter territory. In fairness, it is also Al Horford range. Though I have not seen anything so far to suggest Ayton has Al's preternatural defensive instincts. But, as Dalton said, opinions vary.
So Lebron gets hurt, and the Kings magically show up to play them every other night. What did Danny Ainge do to the basketball Gods to piss them off so bad with respect to our draft picks?
Yeah, I know Ayton isn’t nearly the defender rookie Davis was. Blocks though, are a really overrated statistic and not a good barometer of good defensive play; Davis averaging 1 more block per game than Ayton just says that one time per game, Anthony Davis made a defensive play that Ayton did not.
I don’t know what “many were down” on Ayton means, since he was the consensus number one pick and ended up going number one. I actually liked Doncic more but clearly Ayton was seen as a premier draft prospect. And if you think a poor defensive big man can’t be a top ten player, you’ll have a blast arguing with the Nikola Jokic crowd.
Yup, I mentioned that a few days ago. That pick is cursed. Going to be tough for both Mem and Sac to make playoffs but I wouldn’t be surprised if one does.
Sacramento is about to lose in LA to the LeBronless Lakers. That said, all this talk about how screwed the Celtics are is kind of funny. Ainge essentially got several seasons of tanking drafts without actually tanking and the Celtics have lots of young assets as is. I want more too but it really is greedy.
It absolutely is greedy but I don’t have any shame when it comes to these picks. End of the day, if things stay where they currently are with SAC and MEM just missing the playoffs and LAC making it, we’ve had a pretty successful Tankathon.
So according LeBron, the depleted, exhausted 2016 Finals pre-KD Warriors with strained MCL Curry, broken Iguodala, broken Ezeli, Bogut out, Green suspended one game, and Anderson Varejao getting rotation minutes were the "greatest team ever assembled."
And when the Cavs were able to squeak past them in a coin-flip Game 7 with Kyrie hitting the clutch game-winner, LeBron in his own humble opinion instantly became the unquestioned GOAT.
And when the Cavs were able to squeak past them in a coin-flip Game 7 with Kyrie hitting the clutch game-winner, LeBron in his own humble opinion instantly became the unquestioned GOAT.
It's amazing, but Wall actually didn't sign the "supermax" deal right away. The Wizards offered it in June and he made some comments about wanting to consider his options. They eventually agreed on it about 6 weeks later right after Porter signed.
Certainly it was a dumb move even back then, but he was as least coming of a great season and was All-NBA 3rd team. These last two seasons have really been disastrous for him with injuries and an obvious decline already. The perception of the deal is a lot different now than at the time.
I have no idea what Wall and Paul we’re waiting for to sign but in fairness to them there was really no risk of the Wizards pulling the offer having been trapped over the cap with their hands tied and fully committed to a Wall/Beal/Porter trio.
It hurts saying this as a longtime Wall apologist but he came into camp overweight and out of basketball shape. It sounds like some of this was caused by his heel and knee limiting his summer activity however a truly committed player would have utilized this time to improve his 3-point shot. It sure looks like Wall signed his deal and got fat (literally) and the money is on him being finished as a star player by the age of 30 similar to Arenas and Baron Davis, each of whom showed little interest in properly/effectively rehabbing their injuries.
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Yea, that Golden State team sure was terrible. No idea how they broke the single season win record
Yeah that's quite the laundry-list of excuses for a team that was up 3-1 on Cleveland...
Harden having another night only Harden can have:
8/19 from the floor, 6/12 from 3, and 20/25 from the charity stripe, for 42 points with 5 minutes left in the 4th against Memphis.
8/19 from the floor, 6/12 from 3, and 20/25 from the charity stripe, for 42 points with 5 minutes left in the 4th against Memphis.
Harden just missed the rare quadruple double. 43 points (27 free throw attempts), 13 assists, 10 rebounds and 9 turnovers.
Kawhi with a career high 45 points(17 free throw attempts, more than some teams take in a game).
Next game:
Spurs in San Antonio. Giddy up. It would be such a Kawhi troll move to sit that one out.
Haha, obviously I'm not saying that 2015-16 team was "terrible." (Hi there, I'm Sam Ray Not, and you are?) My point was two-fold:
1. Great as they were, "Greatest Team Ever Assembled" is a fairly massive overstatement — especially given that the team they rolled out the next season was much better, both by regular season net rating and (much more importantly) by playoff indomitability. "73 wins" looks GOATish on the surface, but it glosses over the fact that (1) they were a 66-win Pythag team for whom everything went right, including great luck in coin-flip games and perfect health; and (2) they were a system team as much as an assemblage of historically great talent, whom the league was beginning to figure out and gameplan for by the time the playoffs rolled around. In the WCF, they were dominated for long stretches by OKC, outscored overall, and would have been bounced in six games (down 7 in OKC with a few minutes left) had Klay and Steph not hit a succession of ridiculous late threes. And while injuries are never an excuse (the Ws benefited from the Kyrie and Love injuries the season before, after all) it's just a fact that in the Finals Bogut was out, Draymond was suspended for a game, Iguodala and Ezeli were physically broken, Steph was not anywhere near 100% recovered from his MCL strain, and Andy Varejão was playing in critical moments. I think Skip Bayless, who of course is full of sh*t in most respects, nailed it when he asked, "in retrospect, was that series even an upset?"
2. (More importantly) much as I generally admire how LeBron carries himself off-court, and am largely persuaded by the statistical case for him being the best basketball player ever: for him to sit in front of a bunch of fawning yes-men and point to that series the moment he became the GOAT comes off (to me) rather pathetically insecure, even allowing for a fair measure of playful trolling. McHale put it well when he noted how disrespectful it was to those who came before (Russell, Kareem, Jordan, e.g.) Even as fans I think we always have to allow a measure of doubt when making those kind of GOAT proclamations between disparate eras. To hear a player casually deprive all the greats of yore the benefit of that doubt in order to bestow the undisputed GOAT title on himself was pretty gross. To my ears anyway. YMMV.
Anyway, carry on. Warriors-Rockets tomorrow, which should be an interesting measuring stick for where the two teams are right now.
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I agree with most of this. There are a lot of plausible scenarios (no Kyrie 2015 injury, Klay doesn't get hot against OKC), in which the Dubs' legacy is similar to that of the Seven Seconds or Less Suns. Adding Durant was what really shifted them into the Death Star they are now.
I watched like 5 minutes of that game because I left the TV on the Celtics game for the dog when I went out, and he’s missing badly. Like airballs and missed FT.
Westbrook just chucked up a 3 that hit all glass. He did make a layup a minute ago finishing 3 for 20 from the field, but he did post an all important triple double.
It's not just tonight, either: going into the game, he was .436 / .241 / .621 (.483 TS).
I guess it's a testament to his rebounding, passing and improved D (and I think to Paul George) that he's been a pronounced positive on the floor despite regressing so badly in the most important skill in a modern-day PG.
He finishes 3-20; the combined starting backcourts of OKC-LAL (Russ, Ferguson, Ball, Hart) go 10-47.
TLL!
He’s shooting 31.6% from three so far this season, which is a slight improvement from last year’s 30.5% but on reduced volume (4.6 per game this year v. 5.7 per last year).
This probably belongs in the AD thread, but I don't think there are many GMs who would take Ball+Ingram over Jaylen, even with Jaylen's early struggles this year.
Plus if we’re getting into shooting stats, it’s hard to make a case for current-iteration Jaylen.
I think most GMs would still be salivating over Ingram’s potential, honestly, current performances aside.
With all else being equal I would rank them in order....Ball, Jaylen, Ingram with the caveat that Ball would have far fewer trade destinations as a pure PG (Ball has special potential written all over him which isn't a knock on Jaylen). However all is never equal so what this means that if you are in the market for a PG you'd obviously have Ball #1 and if you are set at that position you would have him 3rd. It all depends who your trading partner is.
Simmons has a fun podcast where he floats a Ben Simmons/Anthony Davis trade. It's actually a really good idea; who says no?
https://www.theringer.com/the-bill-simmons-podcast/2019/1/2/18165702/steelers-dysfunction-anthony-davis-ben-simmons-trade-idea-with-kevin-clark-kevin-oconnor
https://www.theringer.com/the-bill-simmons-podcast/2019/1/2/18165702/steelers-dysfunction-anthony-davis-ben-simmons-trade-idea-with-kevin-clark-kevin-oconnor
No one. Simmons is the ultimate trump card in trade scenarios, and I think trading him for a superstar is Philly's best path to a championship. This would come down to whether the Sixers think they could re-sign Davis--they can never move Simmons without that.
Simmons is the best singular piece, but is Simmons + Miami pick better than Tatum + Brown + Memphis/Sacto pick?
For Anthony Davis? Assuming you think you can re-sign him, I would give that up in a second.
I find this highly improbable. In fact, I don't think there is one GM that wouldn't take two lottery tickets in Ingram and Ball, who are both a year younger, over Jaylen
It's insane just how well Denver has drafted the last few years. They get tons of great value in the middle 1st and in the 2nd. Has anyone done better lately? Murray is their only core piece that was a lottery guy, too. In 2016 alone, they got Murray at 7, Hernangomez at 17 and Beasley at 19. I think most of us would be ecstatic if the Celtics got that sort of haul in 2019 with their possible 4 1st round picks. Since 2013, the only pick they really missed on was Mudiay and even he's having a much improved season.
Beasley has been having a great year this season and has been breaking out the last few weeks with chance to play. Over the last 6 games, he's scoring 17.3 a game in 28.2 minutes on .481/.450/1.000 shooting. Jokic is 23, Harris is 24, Murray is 21, Morris and Hernangomez are 23, Beasley is 22. Lyles is promising too and 23 as well.
The scary thing is Murray and Beasley still have tons of room for improvement and one or both could develop into a primary scoring option that many people think Denver needs.
On top of that, unless I'm doing my math wrong, they could decide to let Millsap, Lyles, and a few others walk and should have more than enough room to sign a max player. Outside of Lyles, they would still have their entire young core to keep or possibly trade for another star. They are set up really well.
On another note, I was a John Collins fanboy last year. He's much improved this year. Atlanta got a player. Too bad Trae Young is ass.
Beasley has been having a great year this season and has been breaking out the last few weeks with chance to play. Over the last 6 games, he's scoring 17.3 a game in 28.2 minutes on .481/.450/1.000 shooting. Jokic is 23, Harris is 24, Murray is 21, Morris and Hernangomez are 23, Beasley is 22. Lyles is promising too and 23 as well.
The scary thing is Murray and Beasley still have tons of room for improvement and one or both could develop into a primary scoring option that many people think Denver needs.
On top of that, unless I'm doing my math wrong, they could decide to let Millsap, Lyles, and a few others walk and should have more than enough room to sign a max player. Outside of Lyles, they would still have their entire young core to keep or possibly trade for another star. They are set up really well.
On another note, I was a John Collins fanboy last year. He's much improved this year. Atlanta got a player. Too bad Trae Young is ass.