2018 NBA Game Thread

Apisith

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Only 32 for Harden tonight but also had 14 assists. He wanted 35, missed a couple of 3s in the last two minutes. His 35/5 streak is over. Much more efficient tonight. This was the Harden of two years ago. Good win, good bounce back from the Portland loss.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Only 32 for Harden tonight but also had 14 assists. He wanted 35, missed a couple of 3s in the last two minutes. His 35/5 streak is over. Much more efficient tonight. This was the Harden of two years ago. Good win, good bounce back from the Portland loss.
When guys like PJ Tucker are shooting like they did tonight it is easy for Harden to not be forced to score on every possession. Tucker was something like 1-20 in his past 5 games......games in which Harden HAD to try and score on every possession because nobody else was helping him.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Jamal Murray was the victim. You may be thinking of what Doncic did to Josh Hart's lower extremities tonight as well. I apologize if this offends some purists but I love this stuff.

It really is incredible how much better Doncic has gotten over one year in creating separation for his jumper. This wasn't at all a part of his game last year against inferior athletes. Mouth hanging open watching his game grow this year.
 

HowBoutDemSox

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Doncic’s stepbacks are like Giannis’ drives to the hoop, it just doesn’t seem possible for them to cover that much ground legally, but they’re just sort of freakish like that.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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It really is incredible how much better Doncic has gotten over one year in creating separation for his jumper. This wasn't at all a part of his game last year against inferior athletes. Mouth hanging open watching his game grow this year.
I feel safe in saying he will be a top five player in the league in a few years. Its not just his ability to score but his passing is special. The guy may not be as athletic as some of his fellow 2018 draftees but the whole package is so polished. And he is a baby.
 

Marciano490

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I feel safe in saying he will be a top five player in the league in a few years. Its not just his ability to score but his passing is special. The guy may not be as athletic as some of his fellow 2018 draftees but the whole package is so polished. And he is a baby.
I know I chime in on this from time to time, but people define “athletic” so narrowly and often don’t include things that I rate so highly like reflexes and fine motor skills. It’s not as measurable or flashy as jumping or running, but I really think it’s more important in most sports.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I’m so confused. Have Doncic and Jamal Murray morphed into the same person?
When I first saw the blue jersey, a flop/trip, and jersey number ending in 7 I assumed it was Doncic......and continued assuming until I just looked again lol.
 

Kliq

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I don't think a lot of people understand just how good Doncic was in Europe last year. I think most people have the misconception that all the Euros that come into the NBA dominated in Europe and that is why they jumped to the NBA, when that is actually rarely the case. Most European players that come into the NBA are young prospects in Europe, and are often not stars are their own teams, let alone dominant players. Giannis was famously playing second division ball in Greece, Frank Ntilikina came off the bench for his French club; even Porzingis who was billed as being an accomplished player in Spain only averaged 21 mpg for his Spanish club, putting up an 11-4 on 49 percent shooting.

For Luka to be the Spanish League MVP and the Eurobasket MVP at 19, nobody had dominated Europe at that level before, so it's not surprising that he's doing so well in the NBA.
 
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I know I chime in on this from time to time, but people define “athletic” so narrowly and often don’t include things that I rate so highly like reflexes and fine motor skills. It’s not as measurable or flashy as jumping or running, but I really think it’s more important in most sports.
It’s an important point because a lot of NBA stars aren’t traditionally “athletic” - Curry, Harden, Klay, Jokic, Chris Paul, even KD. There are so many ways to change the game that don’t require being a nuclear athlete like Russ Westbrook.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I don't think a lot of people understand just how good Doncic was in Europe last year. I think most people have the misconception that all the Euros that come into the NBA dominated in Europe and that is why they jumped to the NBA, when that is actually rarely the case. Most European players that come into the NBA are young prospects in Europe, and are often not stars are their own teams, let alone dominant players. Giannis was famously playing second division ball in Greece, Frank Ntilikina came off the bench for his French club; even Porzingis who was billed as being an accomplished player in Spain only averaged 21 mpg for his Spanish club, putting up an 11-4 on 49 percent shooting.

For Luka to be the Spanish League MVP and the Eurobasket MVP at 19, nobody had dominated Europe at that level before, so it's not surprising that he's doing so well in the NBA.
I may have watched more Euroball than NBA last year (slight hyperbole) and Doncic never showed a step back 3 remotely close to resembling whet he has now. My biggest questions with Doncic was his ability to create his own shot against NBA defenders because he actually did struggle at times doing so against Euroleague defenses. Obviously he has answered that question but I can’t count the number of times his slow step back resulted in a contested jumper last year. This was the primary reason why he struggled shooting from 3 I think it was 33% or so. It is clear that he has the work ethic to improve his game because he took a massive leap from last season.
 

HomeRunBaker

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They called a foul on Murray. The bogus foul calls on Harden 3pt attempts are ridiculous.
Murray went after the ref claiming a push off, which is clearly wasn’t. It seemed like he acknowledged that he got Harden on the arm as you can also ee Harden’s follow through compromises from the straight away angle. The other angles didn’t show this.

The more obvious missed call was on Harden's game winning 3-pointer against Golden State which should have been an easy call in Harden's favor that wasn't blown. It goes both ways.

 
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Bleedred

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Murray went after the ref claiming a push off, which is clearly wasn’t. It seemed like he acknowledged that he got Harden on the arm as you can also ee Harden’s follow through compromises from the straight away angle. The other angles didn’t show this.

The more obvious missed call was on Harden's game winning 3-pointer against Golden State which should have been an easy call in Harden's favor that wasn't blown. It goes both ways.

Do you think Harden gets favorable treatment from the refs, more so than is typical for a "superstar?" My opinion, anecdotally (I've probably seen 30 or so games of his in the last couple of years) is yes. It's worse because Harden is such a fucking flopper on just about every shot where a defender is in close contact (flopping is probably the wrong word; more ridiculous exaggeration of contact when anyone is near him, including falling down on just about 25% of his 3 point shots). Harden is undeniably an unbelievable offensive player. His handle is obscene, his shooting sublime. I'd say he may be one of the best 5 offensive guards in the history of the game when it's all said and done and a first ballot hall of famer. That said, it's a fucking joke how the refs treat him.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Do you think Harden gets favorable treatment from the refs, more so than is typical for a "superstar?" My opinion, anecdotally (I've probably seen 30 or so games of his in the last couple of years) is yes. It's worse because Harden is such a fucking flopper on just about every shot where a defender is in close contact (flopping is probably the wrong word; more ridiculous exaggeration of contact when anyone is near him, including falling down on just about 25% of his 3 point shots). Harden is undeniably an unbelievable offensive player. His handle is obscene, his shooting sublime. I'd say he may be one of the best 5 offensive guards in the history of the game when it's all said and done and a first ballot hall of famer. That said, it's a fucking joke how the refs treat him.
I honestly don’t this he does. The fouls called in his favor are nearly always due to his ability to generate contact after his move has caused the defender to be out of position and vulnerable to Harden’s ability to draw fouls.

These same conversations were had about LeBron for years. A skilled offensive player who has the abilities to gain angles while forcing the defender out of position to generate contact should not be penalized by being great at what he does. There is a reason why a player like this gets a ton of calls from out of position defenders and why a player who doesn’t have this in his game like a Curry or Kyrie, don’t get these calls. It is a skill to force a defender out of position through quickness, athleticism, deception, etc and to then generate contact.....and in the case of LeBron and Harden, to finish through contact.

I’m not even a Harden lover. I simply respect how incredible he is at these skills.
 

the moops

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Yea, Harden's stepback gets defenders jumping into his space all the time. He falls often because he is landing on top of defender's feet as they crowd into his space.

And I can't for the life of me figure why that Murray clip is an indictment on Harden and flopping and/or superstar treatment. There was no push off, not even close, and Murray clipped him on the elbow - which is called all the damn time for people not named James Harden
 

Bleedred

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Yea, Harden's stepback gets defenders jumping into his space all the time. He falls often because he is landing on top of defender's feet as they crowd into his space.

And I can't for the life of me figure why that Murray clip is an indictment on Harden and flopping and/or superstar treatment. There was no push off, not even close, and Murray clipped him on the elbow - which is called all the damn time for people not named James Harden
Forget the Murray clip, I'm talking generally. I contend that "he falls often" as much because he's a flopper than that it's attributable to getting fouled. The refs are conditioned now to give him just above everything he asks for, and he gets it. I'm not disputing his greatness, but I am calling into question that he gets EVERY call on offense, even when the refs should keep the whistles in their pocket.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Forget the Murray clip, I'm talking generally. I contend that "he falls often" as much because he's a flopper than that it's attributable to getting fouled. The refs are conditioned now to give him just above everything he asks for, and he gets it. I'm not disputing his greatness, but I am calling into question that he gets EVERY call on offense, even when the refs should keep the whistles in their pocket.
I pointed out a specific example of this claim not being true by citing the end of the Warriors game when he was fouled and didn’t get the call but there are many others. It’s kije the Jaylen claims that he never gets any calls right after he dodged a bullet on one that should have been whistled a charge. Recency bias is common when someone is favoring one side of the argument and the case of Harden is no different imho.
 

Jimbodandy

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Calling out the one bullet that Jaylen has dodged in his three years is awesome.

Don't get me wrong. He is at the polar opposite end of the "knows how to work the rules/refs to his advantage" spectrum from James.

But the star treatment thing is real too. Always has been.
 

BigSoxFan

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Calling out the one bullet that Jaylen has dodged in his three years is awesome.

Don't get me wrong. He is at the polar opposite end of the "knows how to work the rules/refs to his advantage" spectrum from James.

But the star treatment thing is real too. Always has been.
I guess the question we're debating here is whether or not Harden's star treatment goes above and beyond what other stars receive. My answer is probably not in any material amount. I have less of an issue with Harden's calls than, say, watching the Greek Freak or LeBron just put their heads down, plow into their defenders, and get the call.
 

Jimbodandy

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I guess the question we're debating here is whether or not Harden's star treatment goes above and beyond what other stars receive. My answer is probably not in any material amount. I have less of an issue with Harden's calls than, say, watching the Greek Freak or LeBron just put their heads down, plow into their defenders, and get the call.
Understood. And in that context, I'd agree. He is unusually good at creating contact. He also gets the star treatment. The combination should lead to an ungodly number of FTA, and it has.
 

Bleedred

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I pointed out a specific example of this claim not being true by citing the end of the Warriors game when he was fouled and didn’t get the call but there are many others. It’s kije the Jaylen claims that he never gets any calls right after he dodged a bullet on one that should have been whistled a charge. Recency bias is common when someone is favoring one side of the argument and the case of Harden is no different imho.
By recency bias, you seem to be ignoring my reliance of 2 years and 30+ games of viewing.
 

benhogan

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Hawks giving the Raptors a game in the 3rd Quarter...De'Andre Bembry is a defensive menace, has some Marcus Smart dog in him
 

terrynever

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Landry Shamet has 29 points in 24 minutes off the bench for Philly tonight. Eight threes. Sixers were up 30 at one point, playing bench most of second half.
 

Kliq

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Raptors fans giving a standing ovation to Vince Carter is something I didn’t think I’d see.
 

NYCSox

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Sigh. Those three home losses to the garbage of the league are going to haunt the Celtics. Toronto just doesn't do that unfortunately.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Now I'm rooting for the Suns to upend the Kings...I'm a glutton for punishment.

Watching bad teams (Suns/Hawks) trying to close out games is painful
You got your wish. Suns win their tenth game of the season after being down 21 to win 115-111 over the Kangs. Kelly Oubre does damage with 26 points, and a few crunch time key buckets too.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Nerlens Noel was taken off the court on a stretcher tonight after an elbow to the head by Andrew Wiggins which appeared to knock Noel out before he hit the deck hard. I won't post the video here as its pretty brutal especially after his head hit the floor. I really hope this kid is ok - there are no updates right now
 

HowBoutDemSox

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What were the chances Westbrook would pass here? What would have to transpire before he does anything other than take an ill-advised 3? I was gonna say “sniper from the upper deck takes out his shooting hand” but I still think he puts it up left handed then.


23.5% 3-point shooting on 4.8 attempts per game is no way to go through life.
 

Kliq

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What were the chances Westbrook would pass here? What would have to transpire before he does anything other than take an ill-advised 3? I was gonna say “sniper from the upper deck takes out his shooting hand” but I still think he puts it up left handed then.


23.5% 3-point shooting on 4.8 attempts per game is no way to go through life.
He was awful in that last possession but was brilliant during the entire second half on both ends of the floor, and set up about 15 easy buckets for his teammates. The previous possession he got a wide-open three for George, who missed it. He still should have made a better decision on the final possession but it's unfair to pin that loss on him.
 

ifmanis5

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Interesting new coverage idea, an iso cam available on Twitter...

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/nba-turner-plan-single-player-camera-stream-twitter-1174887?utm_source=twitter

During the second half of 20 NBA games on TNT this season, Twitter will live-stream a camera view that focuses on just one player.
The NBA and Turner are giving Twitter the right to stream a small part of their games this season.
This basketball season, Twitter will offer a single-player feed showcasing isolated action during the second half of games. The feed will be available for 20 NBA games that air on TNT, including regular season games, playoff games and the NBA All-Star Game. Fans will vote on which player they'd like to see featured during the live stream.
 

ifmanis5

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Just a guess but at some point each player demands their own feed to push out on their own platform. The league says no and then it ends up in collective bargaining because monetizing social media will become more and more important.

And yes, TimeLord cam is a must.