2018 Gronk Watch

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The Big Red Kahuna

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Word is his back. Which, if true, yeah. Don’t even want to think the words let alone type them.
 

Ed Hillel

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Yeah, we’re left sitting here wondering if this is it. If it’s serious, no way he comes back again.
 

LesterFan

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Schefter says he's expected back next week.

Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter42m
Patriots’ TE Rob Gronkowski, who is not expected to play Sunday vs. Bears, is expected back next week at Buffalo on Monday Night Football, per source. The Patriots are playing it safe by resting him Sunday.
 

Mystic Merlin

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Rapoport echoed that sentiment, reporting that the Pats believe his back injury isn’t a ‘long term’ issue.

Unless sources are bullshitting both of them, which is possible but unlikely given their track record, this is good news. And not taking any chances with Gronk’s back in an October out of conference road game is the right move.
 

BaseballJones

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Is Gronk done? Meaning...is he ever gonna be dominant again? Can he be great again if healthy?
I don't think he will ever be GRONK - the full package of speed and size - again. But he will be a terrific tight end - a monster blocker and as sure-handed as they come, with a huge catch radius. I just don't think he will be the all-destructive force he's been. That's ok. 80% of Gronk is still a tremendous weapon.

I think Edelman is key for this team, by the way.

Four games without Edelman: 23.8 points, 337.3 yards per game.
Five games with Edelman: 35.0 points, 427.8 yards per game.
 

Red Averages

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I don't think he will ever be GRONK - the full package of speed and size - again. But he will be a terrific tight end - a monster blocker and as sure-handed as they come, with a huge catch radius. I just don't think he will be the all-destructive force he's been. That's ok. 80% of Gronk is still a tremendous weapon.

I think Edelman is key for this team, by the way.

Four games without Edelman: 23.8 points, 337.3 yards per game.
Five games with Edelman: 35.0 points, 427.8 yards per game.
I'm not sure you can isolate Edleman without including Josh Gordon's impact as well. Edleman is a huge piece of this offense, don't get me wrong. But this offensive improvement is clearly not all because of him, which the above kind of implies.
 

BaseballJones

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I'm not sure you can isolate Edleman without including Josh Gordon's impact as well. Edleman is a huge piece of this offense, don't get me wrong. But this offensive improvement is clearly not all because of him, which the above kind of implies.
I don't disagree. The Gordon addition has been very helpful.

When they signed him I suggested that maybe he wouldn't put up eye-popping personal stats, but that the offense as a whole would benefit. I just know that Edelman seems like a hugely important part of this offense.
 

m0ckduck

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Even if you only had them at 80% of their career peak, running Gronk, Edelman and Gordon out there with James White gives the team its best complement of passing options since ‘07 and ‘10.

The issue this year is that there’s even less redundancy than usual at those positions. There’s so Bennett to step in for Gronk, or Amendola for Edelman, no Stallworth, etc. You could partly replace White with a healthy Michel, but that’s about it.
 

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There was a play in the Buffalo Game I think.
Replay Camera Angle was shooting over the head of the QB.
RB Sweep to the right.
They were using the replay to highlight a Block by Gronk that sprung the run.
He was on the left side at the snap. Turned right and "Counter pulled" into a DT who was coming through the hole vacated by the pulling guard who was running to the left to lead the RB.
Gronk Stonewalled him, but also kinda crumpled a bit. At the time I had a couple thoughts.
1. He is probably only one of the few TEs in the league who could do that.
2. Man the DT is a BIG dude to be able to crumple Gronk like that.
3. THATS why TEs dont have long careers.

When I weighed that play and specifically the glimmer of information i thought i got from that replay I really felt bad for Gronk in particular and Players in general. I swear that play took a week off his life.
 

KiltedFool

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There was a play in the Buffalo Game I think.
Replay Camera Angle was shooting over the head of the QB.
RB Sweep to the right.
They were using the replay to highlight a Block by Gronk that sprung the run.
He was on the left side at the snap. Turned right and "Counter pulled" into a DT who was coming through the hole vacated by the pulling guard who was running to the left to lead the RB.
Gronk Stonewalled him, but also kinda crumpled a bit. At the time I had a couple thoughts.
1. He is probably only one of the few TEs in the league who could do that.
2. Man the DT is a BIG dude to be able to crumple Gronk like that.
3. THATS why TEs dont have long careers.

When I weighed that play and specifically the glimmer of information i thought i got from that replay I really felt bad for Gronk in particular and Players in general. I swear that play took a week off his life.
Agreed.
Consider, Gronk is one of the best athletic specimens in the game, big, strong, fast, and even so he's giving up 40 or 50 pounds if he's going up against one of the Bills' starting DTs (He's listed 265, they're listed 303 and 315). And most of that weight difference is muscle, defensive interior linemen are friggin strong, they anchor well against that sort of running hit, they have to.
 

bakahump

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I was actually thinking Hogan would be Dola.

Just kinda waiting until the playoffs then when Jules, Gordon and Gronk are all being taken away and game planned around, Hoges drops a 6 for 90 (40 on a final drive) and a pivotal TD.
 

Al Zarilla

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I was actually thinking Hogan would be Dola.

Just kinda waiting until the playoffs then when Jules, Gordon and Gronk are all being taken away and game planned around, Hoges drops a 6 for 90 (40 on a final drive) and a pivotal TD.
Wouldn't an opponent have to get away with playing 12-13 guys on D to take away all of those guys?
 

DrewDawg

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Just kinda waiting until the playoffs then when Jules, Gordon and Gronk are all being taken away and game planned around, Hoges drops a 6 for 90 (40 on a final drive) and a pivotal TD.
The defense is doubling Jules, Gordon, and Gronk? If that's the case, the only way the final drive TD is pivotal is to see if we hit 100 points.
 

bakahump

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I said nothing about doubling.

I said
are all being taken away and game planned around
While it seems unlikely, then we need to explain why Playoff Dola is a thing. Has it not been unlikely before?

I suppose I could have said "unavailable" (for whatever reason, injury suspension etc)

Unless my Sarcasm meter is off.
 

DrewDawg

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It's not actually a thing. Outside of last season (when Edelman didn't play) Amendola averages fewer catches/game and yards/game in the playoffs than the regular season.

And yes, if you change your post to those guys not actually being available, then yes *someone* will step up, because we are going to throw it a lot, and someone will catch them. Because outside of that no one can take away 3 weapons.
 

InstaFace

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I'm just asking. I'm not being critical of the guy. But yeah, we are at the midway point and get has scored once. It's a fair Q. Has his body reached a point where his ceiling is a top 5 TE? Or can he be number 1 again.
Fantasy start/sit articles and shows don't even discuss Gronk, because he's an obvious, you-must-be-joking "start" every week. Not even Kelce gets that deference.
 

johnmd20

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Fantasy start/sit articles and shows don't even discuss Gronk, because he's an obvious, you-must-be-joking "start" every week. Not even Kelce gets that deference.
Kelce most certainly gets the same respect in terms of start/sit. He's a monster.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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I was actually thinking Hogan would be Dola.

Just kinda waiting until the playoffs then when Jules, Gordon and Gronk are all being taken away and game planned around, Hoges drops a 6 for 90 (40 on a final drive) and a pivotal TD.
I'm kind of waiting for Hogan to have a game this year. Brady doesn't even seem to be looking his way very much. The Patriots seem like they've been focused on getting the ball out of Brady's hands very quickly this year. Everything is designed for 2 second stuff and quick reads it seems like and I think the guys that take a bit longer to get open like Hogan and Gronk have ceded some looks.

Hogan is not that far removed from a 9 catch, 180 yard 2 TD playoff performance so I know he can do it again!
 

joe dokes

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I'm kind of waiting for Hogan to have a game this year. Brady doesn't even seem to be looking his way very much. The Patriots seem like they've been focused on getting the ball out of Brady's hands very quickly this year. Everything is designed for 2 second stuff and quick reads it seems like and I think the guys that take a bit longer to get open like Hogan and Gronk have ceded some looks.

Hogan is not that far removed from a 9 catch, 180 yard 2 TD playoff performance so I know he can do it again!
That makes sense. And Gordon has taken many of the "run past the CB" go routes. But i have little doubt that as the 3rd or 4th option Hogan will make some big plays.
 

Spelunker

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Kelce most certainly gets the same respect in terms of start/sit. He's a monster.
More I think. Kelce has a higher start percentage week after week in Yahoo Sports, for example, because these days you don't know what Gronk will really bring to the table. Their pre-season rankings were pretty near each other, and Kelce definitely has offered a lot more value (obviously).
 

Marciano490

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Fantasy start/sit articles and shows don't even discuss Gronk, because he's an obvious, you-must-be-joking "start" every week. Not even Kelce gets that deference.
Isn’t TE in NFL fantasy like catcher in baseball fantasy this year? Are there nearly enough TEs to even fill out an 8 team league? Gronk, Kelce, Howard, Ertz, Kittle, Olsen, maybe Njoku or Burton.
 

BigSoxFan

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Isn’t TE in NFL fantasy like catcher in baseball fantasy this year? Are there nearly enough TEs to even fill out an 8 team league? Gronk, Kelce, Howard, Ertz, Kittle, Olsen, maybe Njoku or Burton.
Ebron, Cook, Graham and Hooper have been pretty good as well.
 

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There are some hurt guys, too. Hunter Henry (LAC) was poised to break out. Delanie Walker has been TEN's best receiver. Tyler Eifert is always hurt and is hurt again this year, but he's been pretty special in the rare instances he's been healthy.
 

pokey_reese

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I agree that it's reasonable to question whether or not Gronk will ever be the monster he was (or to say with a high degree of certainty that he will not). He's definitely still good to great, but how many people here would trade him for Kelce right now? Even if you take age, contract, whatever out of it, just Kelce for the rest of the season vs Gronk for the rest of the season?
 

BigJimEd

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I'd take Gronk for rest of the season. I think he's a more complete player. Obviously health is the issue so we'll see. Gronk is riskier but has more overall upside.


I was surprised that there is less than a year difference in age.
 

SMU_Sox

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...quietly raises in the back...
This is a fun or silly hypothetical. Personally I'd rather have Kelce the rest of the year given what I have seen from Gronk and Kelce this year. Gronk has had a better career and peak Gronk was the best TE ever in my opinion. However, this year alone? I'd rather have Kelce in the hypothetical.
 

InstaFace

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Keep Gronk. Better blocker, slightly better hands, more capable of the absolutely spectacular (less frequently these days, but still there).
 

Silverdude2167

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I agree that it's reasonable to question whether or not Gronk will ever be the monster he was (or to say with a high degree of certainty that he will not). He's definitely still good to great, but how many people here would trade him for Kelce right now? Even if you take age, contract, whatever out of it, just Kelce for the rest of the season vs Gronk for the rest of the season?
Kelce is a TE in name only, the amount of flexibility that Gronk provides far outweighs anything Kelce does better than Gronk
 

rodderick

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Re Kelce hasn’t he had multiple concussions? Ticking time bomb too IMO
Kelce has missed exactly one game since 2014. Give me Kelce. Honestly, from what I've seen from Gronk running routes lately, Kelce has him beat as a receiver and he actually stays on the field. Gronk is more versatile, sure, but he's extremely undependable and has shown signs of slowing down. If we're talking peak Gronk, there's absolutely no contest, but I think Kelce will be more productive going forward.
 

johnmd20

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There are some hurt guys, too. Hunter Henry (LAC) was poised to break out. Delanie Walker has been TEN's best receiver. Tyler Eifert is always hurt and is hurt again this year, but he's been pretty special in the rare instances he's been healthy.
He's most certainly finished in the NFL.

And there are a lot of TE's who have put up tremendous numbers. If you picked Gronk this year, you have suffered dearly due to the high draft position.
 

johnmd20

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This is a fun or silly hypothetical. Personally I'd rather have Kelce the rest of the year given what I have seen from Gronk and Kelce this year. Gronk has had a better career and peak Gronk was the best TE ever in my opinion. However, this year alone? I'd rather have Kelce in the hypothetical.
It's a no brainer. How can that even be analyzed? Kelce is significantly better than Gronk right now.

edit - Kelce has 70% more points than Gronk per game. It's not remotely close. Gronk isn't the same this year and he's getting no red zone looks. Kelce is a monster.
 

pokey_reese

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Yeah, I wasn't trying to take anything away from Gronk, but watching him in games this year has been painful for MY back. He can't really run, and there appear to be some of those jump balls that he used to get that he can't catch because it doesn't look like he can raise his hands all the way up. I've had a bad back, and I get that it sucks, so I'm not saying this is some fault of his or natural decline, but he often isn't even a useful decoy this season, because teams have realized that they don't usually have to double him. It doesn't make him a useless player by any means, and his blocking/receiving skills still keeps teams guessing which affects their personnel/alignment, but he isn't the game changer that we are used to.
 

BigSoxFan

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Anyone have thoughts on Gronk's lack of TDs? Lack of opportunities? Not getting open? I haven't really noticed a change in how he's being used.
 

BigJimEd

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It's a no brainer. How can that even be analyzed? Kelce is significantly better than Gronk right now.

edit - Kelce has 70% more points than Gronk per game. It's not remotely close. Gronk isn't the same this year and he's getting no red zone looks. Kelce is a monster.
For Fantasy sure. But for NFL it's a much closer call.
 

m0ckduck

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I suspect the whole Gronk narrative so far is mainly driven by frustrated fantasy owners.

By most counting stats (Rec, Yards, etc), he's on pace to match 80-85% of his production from last year, and that's factoring in weeks 2-4 when NE had no other creditable threats and teams were egregiously keying on him. By rate stats, he's mostly a carbon copy of last year's Gronk. The only thing that's really off is his TD catches... which I personally don't give a crap about. YMMV.

I agree that, anecdotally, he looks slower and more lumbering than previous years. But I think his demise is quite exaggerated. He's pretty beat up, has been hurt a few games, and played a few games this season with a really weak offense in need of reinforcements. But, barring major injury, we'll still find him where he belongs: putting Steelers defensive backs in the wood-chipper in week 15 when it counts.
 
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