2018 AFCCG: Jags v. Pats (Non-Brady Edition)

Bongorific

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Worth noting that JAX is 20th in DVOA vs. TE and 15th vs. RB.

Making Ramsay and Bouye spectators wouldn't be a bad strategy.
Both stats are a bit misleading for this game. Jax run d was their real Achilles earlier in the year, but they got much better in the second half. Also, they may play Ramsey on Gronk. He's got the size. Having said that, their weakness has been in the middle of the field at all levels. I expect solid usage of the backs in the passing game, Amendola, and Gronk.
 

yecul

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The Patriots should certainly be favored but the Jaguars are a legitimate team that could easily win. Limiting turnovers is key to any Victory but in particular in a game like this. I like their chances quite a bit as long as they don't give up big place. The Patriots will need that 20 plus points as of stated above. I think they get it.
 

Bongorific

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Jacksonville had the #1 ranked pass defense by DVOA. Here's how they managed to do in terms of points and passing yards against the better pass defense teams they faced this year.

vs Car (#10): 30 points, 293 pass yds
vs NO (#5): 36 points, 436 pass yds
vs Pit (#8): 27 points, 283 pass yds
vs Den (#11): 41 points, 297 pass yds
vs LAC (#9): 21 points, 317 pass yds
vs Buf (#12): 23 points, 244 pass yds
vs Buf (#12): 37 points, 218 pass yds

AVG: 30.7 points, 298.3 pass yds
Yeah, this was noticeable throughout the year. They played a lot of really bad offensives that they absolutely smoked and got big turnover chunk plays. I think they're more comparable to a very good but not generational Houston D last year, who could have easily won in NE if not for getting Brocked, rather than the prime Ravens/Giants defenses.
 

Dahabenzapple2

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For a “dominant” defense they’ve been getting shreaded pretty regularly as of late. Plus even on the big plays those throws by Bortles were wobbly at best. I’m a negative thinker about my Pats but I think they crush the Jags by something like 31-14.
 

Ed Hillel

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I’m going 30-16 or 33-20, something like that. It might be close for a bit, but once the Patriots get up and force Bortles to throw, that will be the end of it.
 

DJnVa

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The hated team will get way more eyeballs, although the Super Bowl is traditionally not matchup dependent.
Oh, I know they'll watch. It's just the chatter I'm talking about. The whole "I don't want to watch the Patriots again" versus "The Jags in the Super Bowl???"
 

DeadlySplitter

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The Jags were sloppy on some critical downs / Ben made some unbelievable throws on those downs for TDs. could have easily only been ~28 points instead of 42.

30+ is not going to free next week
 

BernieRicoBoomer

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I missed the last AFC Championship game against the Jags. I was able to go to one playoff game only that year and chose the guaranteed game (Steelers fog/Curtis Martin game). I had some regrets about my choice but it looks like I'll be able to make it this time. I'm hoping the result will be similar. Let's win this one for Sam Gash.
 

DJnVa

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The Jets completed more than 70% of their passes against the Jags and rushed for 250 yards in the same game.

The defense clearly is good, but they can be had. Young defenses are typically very aggressive. I think that's something the Patriots can exploit.
 

luckiestman

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The Jets completed more than 70% of their passes against the Jags and rushed for 250 yards in the same game.

The defense clearly is good, but they can be had. Young defenses are typically very aggressive. I think that's something the Patriots can exploit.

We fucked them up but that was their return from London game
 

brandonchristensen

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On the bright side, I fly home on Sunday and don’t have to watch it in the air.

I will be able to watch at home as I land 2 hours before kickoff.
 

snowmanny

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I can't believe they are looking ahead to the Eagles and disrespecting the Patriots like that.
 

koufax32

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I don’t think y’all understand how much these guys run their mouths. The Steelers are the JV team of trash talk, especially on the field. I am pretty certain that someone in NE already has this saved.
 

jsinger121

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Jacksonville has never won in Foxboro and all time is 1-10 against the Patriots with the only win a 25-10 loss in wild card playoffs after the 1998 season with Scott Zolak starting for an injured Drew Bledsoe.
 

joe dokes

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Jacksonville has never won in Foxboro and all time is 1-10 against the Patriots with the only win a 25-10 loss in wild card playoffs after the 1998 season with Scott Zolak starting for an injured Drew Bledsoe.
Those are always fun history rides, but given NFL turnover, aren't they otherwise meaningless after a couple of seasons.
 

eustis22

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While Pitts D, I'd say, is not as good as the Pats, especially the secondary, the question/concern is how did the Jags ring up 45 points against them? I know how Pitt got theirs..they beat the Jags deep with Ben throwing perfect deep balls. I don't think Brady can do that with Cooks/Hogan. I was on the road most of the game so missed how Pittsburgh did on the plays the Pats are most likely to run, i.e., RBs, short middle, Gronk. Can someone re-cap?

Keep in mind that the Steelers fucked up not one but TWO 4th-and-a-yards with terrible playcalling. Jags won't get that gift from BB. But it does concern me a little that they put up 45 points relatively easily, Bortle me no Bortles, please.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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While Pitts D, I'd say, is not as good as the Pats, especially the secondary, the question/concern is how did the Jags ring up 45 points against them? I know how Pitt got theirs..they beat the Jags deep with Ben throwing perfect deep balls. I don't think Brady can do that with Cooks/Hogan. I was on the road most of the game so missed how Pittsburgh did on the plays the Pats are most likely to run, i.e., RBs, short middle, Gronk. Can someone re-cap?

Keep in mind that the Steelers fucked up not one but TWO 4th-and-a-yards with terrible playcalling. Jags won't get that gift from BB. But it does concern me a little that they put up 45 points relatively easily, Bortle me no Bortles, please.
The Jags scored 7 on defense and 10 more on very short fields, so that’s a big part of it.

Otherwise, they were very efficient on third down and they were 5/5 converting TDs in the red zone. Pitt couldn’t stop the run in the red zone and they did a poor job keeping Bortles in the pocket on third downs.
 

SidelineCameras

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I agree that the Patriots don’t have the same quick-strike potential as the Steelers do with Antonio Brown, but I’m liking the chances for Gronk to have a big game. The Steelers 6’4” tight end (McDonald) had 10 catches for 112 yards in yesterday’s game.

Also, the Jaguars just seemed to be careless several times yesterday. They had a chance to go into the locker room at 28-7 and seemed pretty lackadaisical on defense, even after the taunting penalty and gift field position. I dunno, they’re tough and physical but I think we’ve seen this movie before, especially when the game’s in Foxboro.
 

TheoShmeo

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Jacksonville has never won in Foxboro and all time is 1-10 against the Patriots with the only win a 25-10 loss in wild card playoffs after the 1998 season with Scott Zolak starting for an injured Drew Bledsoe.
I'm always kind of dubious about historical comps. To state the obvious, there's not a lot of common DNA between the teams on either side. It's true that BB/Tom were part of a lot of those, but most everyone else is different, and Jax has different coaches too.

If it is a crazy cold weather day -- and as of now it's going to be downright balmy -- I could see that being something that translates from Jags team to team.

I think I might get the award for the longest commute to this game. I'm boarding a flight Saturday night in Tel Aviv at 11 PM, arriving in Newark at 4:30 AM, going home to shower, heading up with my sons and should be tailgating by 12 or 12:30 at America's Best Value lot. It will be a heavy caffeine day and a tough ride back. But worth every bit of the effort.
 

BigSoxFan

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Bortles loves the short passes to the RBs and TEs. I would just flood the middle of the field with safeties and LBs and leave Butler and Gilmore 1-on-1 and dare Bortles to beat them deep.
Given his play this year, leaving Butler on an island does not seem like a wise decision.
 

JMDurron

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An uncontrollable factor is going to be how the game is officiated. My impression is that the Jags’ DBs we’re allowed to get away with a remarkable amount of holding/interference vs Pitt, while the crew in the Pats-Titans game actually even called defensive holding against Gronk, just as an example of them calling a tighter game in the secondary.

The difference between those two extremes may be a critical factor in the Pats’ passing game against the Jags, particularly with Cooks and Gronk in the intermediate and long routes. The Jags seem less reliant on long passing, so a permissive crew on that front would be a potentially significant problem that would disproportionately hurt the Patriots.
 

joe dokes

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I agree that the Patriots don’t have the same quick-strike potential as the Steelers do with Antonio Brown, but I’m liking the chances for Gronk to have a big game. The Steelers 6’4” tight end (McDonald) had 10 catches for 112 yards in yesterday’s game.

Also, the Jaguars just seemed to be careless several times yesterday. They had a chance to go into the locker room at 28-7 and seemed pretty lackadaisical on defense, even after the taunting penalty and gift field position. I dunno, they’re tough and physical but I think we’ve seen this movie before, especially when the game’s in Foxboro.
Is one of the reasons Pit's TE had a big day because the Jax DBs were aiming to stop the WRs, which is probably somewhat less of a concern with the Patriots, at least with deep passes.
 

Red Averages

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Bortles loves the short passes to the RBs and TEs. I would just flood the middle of the field with safeties and LBs and leave Butler and Gilmore 1-on-1 and dare Bortles to beat them deep.
Depends on game situation. It's unlikely Bortles and co can march the field consistently and generate TDs. On the other hand, one bad play on those deep balls and the game can turn in a hurry.

It does seem like this game could be over quickly if the Patriots are able to score on their first two possessions. On the other hand, if this is within a one score game late, it'll be playing right into Jax hands.

I think the Pats win comfortably. Just looking at the Jags schedule it is amazing what an easy ride they had, and how much better their D looks having faced such putrid offenses (as has been mentioned by several people already).
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Bortles loves the short passes to the RBs and TEs. I would just flood the middle of the field with safeties and LBs and leave Butler and Gilmore 1-on-1 and dare Bortles to beat them deep.
Agreed. Against the Steelers, it was like 95% short throws and then a couple really long bombs. Hardly anything in the 15-30 yard downfield range. Lots of play action, misdirection then short dump offs and easy throws. Given that Bortles' running ability is also an issue, manning up on the outside and playing zone in the middle or just playing straight zones both seem like good options. We'll probably see see a fair amount of base defense. I expect James Harrison to be an important player as he seems like our best run defender at the OLB spot in 4-3 alignments.

I think the key was that the Steelers struggled to force them into third and long. They didn't have a negative yardage play all day other than the Bortles kneel down at the end of the first half. Their third down distances in the first half were 1, 4, 5, 2, 2, 4. The Steelers improved on this count in the second half but they were playing from behind by then and the Jags managed to hit a couple 40+ yard plays on their two TD drives.

Looking back on the game, the Steelers really got out-coached in that first half. It reminds me a little bit of the 2004 AFC Championship. The Pats then were obviously a much better team than the Jags now, but it was the same pattern of an overly confident Steelers team just being completely outfoxed by their opponents at home during the first half of a big game and digging themselves a hole that they couldn't get out from.
 

RedOctober3829

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Agreed. Against the Steelers, it was like 95% short throws and then a couple really long bombs. Hardly anything in the 15-30 yard downfield range. Lots of play action, misdirection then short dump offs and easy throws. Given that Bortles' running ability is also an issue, manning up on the outside and playing zone in the middle or just playing straight zones both seem like good options. I think we'll see a fair amount of base defense.

I think the key was that the Steelers struggled to force them into third and long. They didn't have a negative yardage play all day other than the Bortles kneel down at the end of the first half. Their third down distances in the first half were 1, 4, 5, 2, 2, 4. The Steelers improved on this count in the second half but they were playing from behind by then and the Jags managed to hit a couple 40+ yard plays on their two TD drives.

Looking back on the game, the Steelers really got out-coached in that first half. It reminds me a little bit of the 2004 AFC Championship. The Pats then were obviously a much better team than the Jags now, but the same pattern of the Steelers just being completely outfoxed by their opponents at home during the first half of a big game and digging themselves a hole that they couldn't get out from.
I agree with everything here. Third and 6 or less brings Bortles' legs into play. Winning 1st and 2nd downs is always important but especially important against a QB who can run. I'll live with Bortles beating them deep because it's not what he does well. If he completes 1 or 2 deep balls, you tip your hat to him.
 

8slim

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Let the Jags fans have fun. I can’t blame them, they’ve suffered through some hideous football over the past decade. I remember what it was like as a Pats fan in 1985 and 1996. House money.

I’m inherently nervous and I’ll be a wreck by 3pm Sunday. To calm myself I just keep thinking about how the Steelers really crushed this vaunted defense. Team’s are different of course, but if Bell and Brown can have the kind of days they did I have to imagine Lewis and Gronk can as well.
 

BaseballJones

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Feels kind of funny comparing the two quarterbacks, but, well, since they're the two QBs playing in this game, here goes...

Passes thrown by distance:
Bortles
- Behind LOS: 69.6%, 4.69 ypa, 90.0 rating
- 1-10 yards: 68.8%, 6.53 ypa, 86.0 rating
- 11-20 yards: 52.4%, 10.06 ypa, 96.6 rating
- 21-30 yards: 32.3%, 10.71 ypa, 84.3 rating
- 31-40 yards: 7.7%, 5.77 ypa, 76.8 rating
- 41+ yards: 1-1, 52 yards

Brady
- Behind LOS: 91.3%, 5.67 ypa, 104.8 rating
- 1-10 yards: 69.8%, 6.04 ypa, 100.1 rating
- 11-20 yards: 61.0%, 11.08 ypa, 111.8 rating
- 21-30 yards: 44.4%, 13.33 ypa, 111.6 rating
- 31-40 yards: 33.3%, 15.07 ypa, 76.4 rating
- 41+ yards: 25.0%, 12.42 ypa, 39.2 rating

OMG Bortles throws a better deep ball!!!

Outdoor temp <40 degrees
Bortles: 32-64, 50.0%, 312 yds, 4.88 ypa, 1 td, 2 int, 56.3 rating
Brady: 39-65, 60.0%, 414 yds, 4 td, 1 int, 92.7 rating

Would seem that the cold weather will favor Brady.
 

Red Averages

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Jags implied team total is 18 points. Anyone want to make a case for the over? I'm loving the under.
 

Toe Nash

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I don’t think y’all understand how much these guys run their mouths. The Steelers are the JV team of trash talk, especially on the field. I am pretty certain that someone in NE already has this saved.
This was basically my point earlier in the thread when I mentioned their trash talk post-game about PIT. Of course they're going to be celebrating but it reveals something about the team. Also after one of the scores yesterday Fournette could be seen taunting the fans in the front row. I don't think it matters much either way but it's fair to say there will be plenty of bulletin board material.

As others have said, they're going to be extremely fired up and that can definitely be exploited by a disciplined team who plays 60 minutes of good situational football.
 

dynomite

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I’m seeing 48 on Sunday. This far out, I could easily see the colder air staying longer.

The Jags did just play well in frozen Pittsburgh though. I’m predicting a 28-17 type score.
Agreed. At the very least, given that less than 24 hours ago the Jaguars came out and dominated for large stretches of a game where the kickoff temperature was 15 degrees, I don’t think the forecast will determine the outcome.
 

DJnVa

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Bortles has played 17 games this season. In 7 of them he has thrown for under 200 yards, including 2 under 100 yards. If Fournette is healthy, then I'd assume we see the same defensive plan we saw against Titans.

On offense, take advantage of a young aggressive defense--get a lead and make Bortles throw.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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I love the idea of a lot of play action, especially play action stretch plays where they get the defense flowing to one side, then throwing a screen pass or a short pass to the other side. I think they can make a fast, aggressive defense pay for over pursuing.

The Jax run defense is also very suspect. Ranked #26 in the NFL in DVOA. In their two playoff games, not counting QB scrambles (but counting planned QB rushes as well as reverses or WR runs), they allowed the Bills and Steelers to run for 3.8 yards a rush. That's pretty solid run defense. Here's where they were attacked (direction is viewed from the offense's point of view).

Runs to the left: 9 attempts, 14 yards, 1.6 yards per rush
Runs to the middle: 23 attempts, 113 yards, 4.9 yards per rush
Runs to the right: 10 attempts, 31 yards, 3.1 yards per rush

So the Jags' run defense is softest right in the middle. They've been very stout on the edges, and it's hard to run left on them (or has been in the playoffs anyway). Pounding up the gut has been the right formula against them.

I expect Dion Lewis to be the primary ballcarrier for the Patriots. Here's his rushing success by direction this year:

Left sideline: 16 att, 70 yds, 4.4 ypc
Left side: 63 att, 270 yds, 4.3 ypc
Middle: 65 att, 337 yds, 5.2 ypc
Right side: 31 att, 213 yds, 6.9 ypc
Right sideline: 5 att, 6 yds, 1.2 ypc

Lewis is, despite his size, very effective up the middle and to the right - the zone between left guard and right tackle - that's where to hit the Jags' run defense, and Lewis is really good at that area. PFF grades Mason and Fleming highly in run blocking, and ranked Andrews and Mason #18 and #19 overall in the NFL in terms of all offensive linemen.

Long story short: I think the Pats can hammer Lewis and Burkhead up the middle, setting up play action for Gronk and Amendola over the middle. I expect Bouye to be on Cooks. If the Pats go with 3 WR, that should leave Hogan or Amendola with a nice matchup against the Jags' nickel back. And I expect Mack to be matched up with Gronk - Mack seemed to do pretty well in coverage yesterday. But one-on-one, Gronk always has the advantage.
 

OnWisc

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When I heard we were playing the jags, I just assumed everyone was referring to the Steelers. Now that I see it's the Jags, I'm probably a little happier. I probably know less about the NFL than 99% of this board, but I see the series of events that would have to unfold over the course of the game for Jacksonville to win as being less likely to occur than what would have to happen for the Steelers. Just more outlier events would have to be baked into a Jacksonville victory. Certainly not impossible, but feels like the margin of error is a bit greater against them.