2017 Steelers: MyFace Champions

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RG33

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Steelers aside: I took my 1st grader to school today, and she pointed out to me the kid that has teased her about her Tom Brady jersey. He had said to her "My Dad says he is a cheater". The kid was wearing a Roethlisberger shirt today at school. I genuinely thought about saying "Tell him that your Dad said his QB is a rapist" for like 14 seconds, and then decided against it. Only because of LI. I'm still happy.
 

snowmanny

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Well she could point out that the guy on his shirt said the guy on her shirt is the GOAT. But I would have gone with rapist.
 

mwonow

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Well she could point out that the guy on his shirt said the guy on her shirt is the GOAT. But I would have gone with rapist.
Or that the guy who wears the black shirt asked for a signed Tom Brady Patriots jersey, so your daughter is just ahead of where Ben R would like to be...
 

Vinho Tinto

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dcmissle

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The hiring of Noll is the most important moment in team history. Like Belichick would later do with the Patriots, he took over a team with no winning history and forever transformed them in his image.
One has to be old or familiar with League history to appreciate the magnitude of this hiring. They were founded in 1933. They made the post-season twice before they arrived for good in 1972 -- once in 1947, again in 1962. For much of that stretch, they were pitiful.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Pittsburgh_Steelers_seasons

One can understand the value they place on patience. Record-wise, Noll got off to a rough start his first few years. (As did Bill Walsh and Jimmy Johnson). Today, one or more of them likely would be fired after year 2.
 

Al Zarilla

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He had three people on his phone on speed dial, one of them
One has to be old or familiar with League history to appreciate the magnitude of this hiring. They were founded in 1933. They made the post-season twice before they arrived for good in 1972 -- once in 1947, again in 1962. For much of that stretch, they were pitiful.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Pittsburgh_Steelers_seasons

One can understand the value they place on patience. Record-wise, Noll got off to a rough start his first few years. (As did Bill Walsh and Jimmy Johnson). Today, one or more of them likely would be fired after year 2.
I don't know. Three year plan. That's kind of the standard you have to give a guy then and today, as long as there is improvement the second year. Noll actually had 3 losing seasons to start. Patience of the Rooneys.
 

dcmissle

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This is pretty awesome, via PFT. Any Steeler fans know the Ike connection?

Via multiple reports, Taylor joined seven of Mr. Rooney’s grandsons as the pallbearers.

Taylor had a close relationship with Mr. Rooney. The former Steeler explained the connection two years ago, during a visit to PFT Live.

“It was a mutual bond,” Taylor said. “I can’t even put into words, I can’t even explain. It was just something that just happened. Poppa Rooney took a liking to me. . . . For me, man, that was easy. For a guy of his stature to have a liking towards me. He’s seen plenty of football players come through that organization. Plenty. And still will see plenty of guys come through the organization. And for him just to have that bond and relationship with me, man, it felt like family. The Rooney family feels like family to me.”

It’s clear that the Rooney family feels the same way about Ike. Of all the players and coaches who came through the organization during Mr. Rooney’s tenure, Ike Taylor was the only one selected by the family to assist in the solemn and sacred process or carrying Mr. Rooney to his final resting place.
 

KiltedFool

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Ike and Dan had a long running deep friendship, generally based on the fact that Rooney was incredibly humble and down to earth, even though he was the head of a major business like the Steelers and Ike was from an incredibly different world. From literal leaders of countries down to grounds crew and staff and almost nameless training camp bodies, he treated everyone the same, with real grace. He never moved out of the house he had lived in as a young man, walked to the stadium so long as he was physically able, drove his own car as long as he was able. Reporters and staff alike talk about him standing in line in the meal line, waiting his turn like everyone else. Charlie Batch asked him why he took the last row of the charter (least comfortable) he said something to the effect of "I don't have to play a game tomorrow, you do."

Link to one story that collects some of them. Click through some links in that story that will link to other anecdotes, there's some really sweet pics, tweets, and stories out there on the sort of man he was. There was a really nice piece on the Player's Tribune for example. People talk about the Rooney Rule a lot, but I also believe the Steelers were one of the first teams to team up with the United Way,and I think Rooney was central to those efforts.


You might wonder, for example, what commonalities were in play between Rooney, elderly decorated Eastern establishment corporate titan of immense influence, and Ike Taylor, young black son of a single mom from Gretna, La., but Ike was so comfortable with Rooney’s version of NFL royalty that he once told the big boss he was wearing his pants too high.

Once, Taylor came into Rooney’s office to announce that he was tired.

“Why, what are ya tired from?” Rooney said.

Ike gave his explanation. Rooney considered it. Then he said, “Well, why don’t you lie down on the couch there?”

Ike laid down. Zonked out immediately. After a while, Rooney had an appointment. He walked out, closed the door to his office, and told the secretaries not to bother Ike.
Ike was a great cornerback for a long time, and he always came off as entertaining and pretty damn smart. I feel for the guy, his closeness with Rooney was real. If Ike hadn't been cursed with hands of stone he'd have gotten a lot more credit.

There are a couple of bonds like that within the Steelers org and recent retirees, I think Ike is in Polamalu's will or vice versa.

NYTimes article on Rooney
 
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dcmissle

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Thank you. Great explanation. So many of the new owner breed are just a-holes.
 

TomTerrific

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Steelers announce contract extension for HC Mike Tomlin (2-year extension thru 2020):


I just don't get the Tomlin love, though he certainly is far from being the worst coach out there. But his mere presence on the sideline puffs me full of confidence when the Steelers play the Pats. What am I missing?
 

dbn

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Steelers announce contract extension for HC Mike Tomlin (2-year extension thru 2020):


I just don't get the Tomlin love, though he certainly is far from being the worst coach out there. But his mere presence on the sideline puffs me full of confidence when the Steelers play the Pats. What am I missing?
I'm guessing that they think he's a top-10 coach, and he probably is at least a top-20 coach. Finding an available replacement that is more likely than not to be better than he is possible but unlikely?
 

pappymojo

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Based on the age of their QB, the salary of their #1 WR and the contract situation of their RB, I assume that they see a three year window for this team (as currently built) and that they feel any other coach, while possibly a long term upgrade, may be a short term downgrade as the transition to a new coach works through normal problems.
 

InstaFace

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Right, he only needs to be not-obviously-the-problem to keep his job, because that's the Steelers culture - continuity. You can't say it hasn't worked well for them. Most people here know this, but Tomlin is their 3rd coach since the 1969 merger. 23 years of Noll, 15 of Cowher, 10 of Tomlin are in the books and now they're signed up for at least another 4. If they thought they could get Jim Harbaugh to stick with them through thick and thin, they might toss Tomlin aside, but short of that I find it hard to fault their choice here.

There's only about 5 coaches in the league I could say are obviously and reliably better than he is. Didn't we have a rank-the-coaches thread a few months back? I'm pretty sure he averaged about #10 there.
 

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Exactly. Status quo may be a local maximum instead of global, but the early returns to a switch would almost certainly be negative: a competency trap. With a closing Big Ben window, you stay at the local maximum and hope things break your way.
 

themuddychicken

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Tomlin is the perfect example of how bad (edit - maybe a better word is difficult) NFL coaching is. He's a top-10 coach in the league, possibly top-5, yet on his watch Pittsburgh entered the AFCCG playing zone defense against Brady. Despite his issues, if Pitt moved on from him the chance they find a better coach is slim.

The more I watch the NFL the more I think that the current responsibilities of a head coach should be handled by multiple people, and that the best head coaches are those that listen to others and don't let their ego get in the way. You can't tell me that no one on the Pitt coaching staff, during the week leading up to the AFCCG, was thinking to themselves that the defensive gameplan was a joke and they were going to lose if they played primarily zone for the umpteenth time against Brady. Yet clearly either no one spoke up or Tomlin didn't listen.

We've been saying for years that Andy Reid needs to have a clock management guy, yet he still doesn't. Ego holds otherwise great coaches back so much.
 

TomTerrific

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I'm guessing that they think he's a top-10 coach, and he probably is at least a top-20 coach. Finding an available replacement that is more likely than not to be better than he is possible but unlikely?
Yeah, he's won a SB and all that, I get it. It just seems like time has passed him, and his rah-rah approach to coaching, by.

Here's a question for those more knowledgeable than I. What do Steelers fans see as his strength(s)?
 

Super Nomario

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Tomlin is the perfect example of how bad (edit - maybe a better word is difficult) NFL coaching is. He's a top-10 coach in the league, possibly top-5, yet on his watch Pittsburgh entered the AFCCG playing zone defense against Brady. Despite his issues, if Pitt moved on from him the chance they find a better coach is slim.

The more I watch the NFL the more I think that the current responsibilities of a head coach should be handled by multiple people, and that the best head coaches are those that listen to others and don't let their ego get in the way. You can't tell me that no one on the Pitt coaching staff, during the week leading up to the AFCCG, was thinking to themselves that the defensive gameplan was a joke and they were going to lose if they played primarily zone for the umpteenth time against Brady. Yet clearly either no one spoke up or Tomlin didn't listen.

We've been saying for years that Andy Reid needs to have a clock management guy, yet he still doesn't. Ego holds otherwise great coaches back so much.
I don't think it's quite that simple. The Patriots change game plans week to week, but many teams don't. If you pick players who play zone, have coaches that coach zone, practice zone, and scheme zone, it's not that easy to change horses midstream. The Patriots are committed to a gameplan-heavy approach and commit to this approach throughout the organization. Many teams prefer a "we do what we do philosophy," including Pittsburgh.

Teams also tend to fall back on their base D against certain looks. This was how McDaniels beat the Pats in Denver, with a Wildcat motion he knew would prompt an audible to a vanilla D. It would be interesting to go back and see if the Patriots did anything unusual on offense that might trigger the Steelers to play zone, even if they went into the game expecting to play more man-to-man.

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Blue Monkey

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Yeah, he's won a SB and all that, I get it. It just seems like time has passed him, and his rah-rah approach to coaching, by.

Here's a question for those more knowledgeable than I. What do Steelers fans see as his strength(s)?
He's a great cheerleader
 

Reverend

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I don't think it's quite that simple. The Patriots change game plans week to week, but many teams don't. If you pick players who play zone, have coaches that coach zone, practice zone, and scheme zone, it's not that easy to change horses midstream. The Patriots are committed to a gameplan-heavy approach and commit to this approach throughout the organization. Many teams prefer a "we do what we do philosophy," including Pittsburgh.

Teams also tend to fall back on their base D against certain looks. This was how McDaniels beat the Pats in Denver, with a Wildcat motion he knew would prompt an audible to a vanilla D. It would be interesting to go back and see if the Patriots did anything unusual on offense that might trigger the Steelers to play zone, even if they went into the game expecting to play more man-to-man.

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Depending how old the poster is, this may be heated agreement--as in, he may simply define the Belichick coaching as the good way and not understand why others don't do it.

I really believe that my own experience as a Patriots fan has made me very disoriented with respect to the ways of other teams.
 

KiltedFool

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A lot of the issue was personnel. Steelers fans have been complaining about the soft zones and big cushions going way back into the LeBeau era, but their drafting didn't stock the secondary with high picks. They built the DL and LB corps, then went on a tear of spending high picks on the OL. They didn't have good enough corners to do a lot of man to man, preferring to cover the weaknesses of zone with a fierce enough rush. Used to play zone and tackle the catch for no big gains because it's hard to run off 12 play drives without a screwup or penalty stalling the drive. Brady can rattle off those length drives in his sleep so he's always been a Kryptonite to the Steelers, especially when he had enough reps against Polamalu that his "unpredictability" got predictable so Brady could manipulate him. Worse once he lost a step.

Only time the Steelers really handled the Pats was when for a brief period they had enough corners to be able to play some press man, think it was Keenan Lewis and Ike Taylor. Think that was one game. Lewis went home to NO in free agency.

It used to be that young players wouldn't start until their third year under LeBeau, but today's contracts mean you need to get them on the field and contributing faster, so Butler boiled things down some so the young guys could absorb it faster and play faster.

Last year the Steelers had two rookies starting in the secondary in the AFC Championship game. You can't get too cute with your defense packages in that kind of environment with that kind of personnel in place. They had some coverage breakdowns earlier in the season that led to embarassingly easy touchdowns. This season could be a coming out party for the defense.

I believe the plan was to do their best to contain the Pats offense and use their own offense to grind down the clock, but they lost a lot of their dimensions when Bell went down, their offense went from oh shit to merely good.

As far as Tomlin, he's an effective leader. He's never had a losing season, even some years decimated by injuries. The Rooneys are legendary for patience and consistency. Not worth it to try and go into strengths on this board, not an unbiased forum.
 

InstaFace

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As far as Tomlin, he's an effective leader. He's never had a losing season, even some years decimated by injuries. The Rooneys are legendary for patience and consistency. Not worth it to try and go into strengths on this board, not an unbiased forum.
Thanks for a great breakdown with a lot of insight. I think on this thread, the way we've kinda enforced it with other teams' threads, you should absolutely assume Pats fans aren't going to come marching around demanding that you bow down. So I for one would be very interested to hear you detail some of Tomlin's strengths, if you'll reconsider - they don't come across well in press conferences, which is the majority of what most of us know about his style.
 

Reverend

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Thanks for a great breakdown with a lot of insight. I think on this thread, the way we've kinda enforced it with other teams' threads, you should absolutely assume Pats fans aren't going to come marching around demanding that you bow down. So I for one would be very interested to hear you detail some of Tomlin's strengths, if you'll reconsider - they don't come across well in press conferences, which is the majority of what most of us know about his style.
I second this.

Yes, some posters will be annoying. And, as usual, some members of this forum will try to stem that tide to get the kinds of insight that awesome post brings.

And I would also like to hear more about what Tomlin brings. Honestly, the specific division of labor in Pittsburgh is weird to me because it's so different from not just Belichick but Carroll, Parcells, etc., so I would like to hear how that works with respect to game planning versus motivation versus daily coaching, etc.--I guess except for personnel, where I do understand that division and the debates over the "groceries," etc.
 

KiltedFool

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SI.com has an extended piece on the Steeler's defense up. It overstates some things a good bit, but you may recognize a lot of the points that I made up above about the evolution of the defense in it. No I didn't write the article. I hate the title of the article, I assume it's standard "editor intentionally chose clickbait idiotic title".

Link
Butler had a plan, though. Be simple, get the young guys comfortable and playing fast, and eventually introduce more of those time-tested Steeler pressure packages. As for the even more advanced stuff that the assistants had pined for? It’d have to wait.

The plan worked. Butler’s callow defense survived early on, allowing 22.9 points and 380 yards a game in its first nine outings. In the last seven games, it gave up just 17.3 point and 294 yards, which both ranked fourth in the NFL over that span. The supposedly offensive-driven Steelers rode an old-school heavy ground game and smashmouth defense to the AFC Championship Game.

That was where Butler realized they had to change. That night, they showed Tom Brady a few different looks before the snap but wound up dropping into basic zone coverages after it. Many of the coverages had eight defenders instead of the usual seven. The Texans had had success against New England with eight-man coverages the week before, but the Texans also had safeties and corners who could match up. Sitting back in the elementary zones they’d begun the season with, the Steelers were picked apart and Brady finished with 374 yards passing.
In regards to questions above about Tomlin's leadership style. He spouts cliches about as well as any head coach, but some of them it really seems that the players fully buy into. "Iron sharpens iron" "two dogs one bone" (originally Antonio Brown and Emmanuel Sanders were in competition as rookies to earn a hat on gameday), "the standard is the standard" (Doesn't matter who's hurt, next man up). He has clunkers occasionally, I think he's still wincing about "unleash hell". He's also had some great lines, like his response to Bradshaw, both measured and a nice zing.

He has had seasons decimated by injuries that he still reached the playoffs in, in part because the backups were ready to step in. A coach that can keep his team focused and unified against mounting injuries to key players and still winning can't be a bad coach.

A few links to articles from around the time Bradshaw made the comments:
NFL network.

Bleacher report Some interesting stuff in this one, you get the impression Tomlin is intentionally presenting as a role model or father figure to some of these young kids. Interesting comments on Belichick too.

"That locker room is a circus, and he actually does a solid job containing it," one coaching friend of Tomlin's said to Bleacher Report.

"He keeps a lid on things more than anyone knows," said an NFC coach, who is also friends with Tomlin.

"Maybe the best teacher I've ever seen," said another assistant. "Not just about football but about life."

Ryan Clark, who played for Tomlin from 2007 to 2013, knows what it's like to be in a Tomlin locker room, what players think about working for the now-10-year veteran head coach. So I asked if the notion that Tomlin had lost his locker room was wrong—if, as those above indicated, he was possibly doing a far better coaching job than most people know. Clark's answer was smart and compelling.

"He's done an excellent job in a tough spot as a black coach," Clark wrote in a message to B/R. "He wants [to be], and is more than, a coach to these young guys, and they definitely try to take advantage of that level of care and concern. Other than his Super Bowl season, I feel like this year has been his finest."

NFL Again
 

NYCSox

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Another God awful loss to a terrible team. Every game that Tomlin coaches is one more step away from another title.
 

koufax32

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DUUUUUUUUUUUUUVVVAAAAAAAALLLLLLL

When they play focused and angry this Jaguars defense is a force.
 

dcmissle

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JG, Cousins, maybe Smith -- come on down if he hangs them up. It's not likely to be a draftee, and it's not going to be Landry Jones. This is not a rebuild.
 

Marciano490

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Did something happen to Ben in the offseason I forgot about? People are talking about him being checked out, but due to what?
 

Stevie1der

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If I recall correctly, there was a brief news cycle during the summer where it was thought that Ben was considering retirement. It was later clarified that he was considering 2017 as a last season, so I think that's the basis for thinking Ben might not have been fully invested in his prep for this season and is starting to check out.
 

NYCSox

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JG, Cousins, maybe Smith -- come on down if he hangs them up. It's not likely to be a draftee, and it's not going to be Landry Jones. This is not a rebuild.
Cousins would be my choice depending on how much the retirement dead cap hit (which I think is $12.4 next year and $6.2 in 2019) and the possible Bell extension eats into their cap space. I have my doubts.
 

Mugsy's Jock

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Sounds like a guy who mentally retired in the offseason. It sounded even worse than it reads.
I take the opposite point of view. Hearing the complete context of the interview, I thought Ben was throwing the "Maybe I don't have it anymore" as an almost sarcastic straw man, trying to figure out why they played so badly. I didn't get the feel he believed it for a second.
 

j-man

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pitt looks like a 10-6 team at best will lose some of these games @KC @DET TENN @HOU GB BALT toss up NE
 

Rudy's Curve

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The dirtiest player in the league will be at Heinz Field next week and it sure as hell isn't Vontaze Burfict.
 

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tims4wins

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The Bryant situation is kind of weird huh? Tomlin and Ben insist there is nothing to see, yet the rumor of the trade demand keeps popping up, and he didn't show up today and called in sick, who knows if he was actually sick.
 

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The Bryant situation is kind of weird huh? Tomlin and Ben insist there is nothing to see, yet the rumor of the trade demand keeps popping up, and he didn't show up today and called in sick, who knows if he was actually sick.
Seems like he definitely wants out and is close to being a real distraction. I think a trade to a team like the Bears would make sense.
 

NYCSox

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It's hard to run the ball 30+ times and keep multiple receivers busy, especially when your RB is also a pass catching threat. Personally I think they focus a little too much on getting the ball to Brown especially in the red zone. I think they would be more effective spreading out a bit more but even then there is only so much you can do with 70 plays per game give or take.
 

KiltedFool

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Ben has gotten into the habit of focusing on Brown more than throwing to the open man a lot of the time. He has massive chemistry with AB and trusts AB to catch it or make sure the defender doesnt (which was why the recent INT when AB stopped his route was so unusual). Some of it is on Ben, some of it is on Bryant to earn trust and find his niche.

There's massive potential there, one of the Steelers' weaknesses for 2+ years has been punching it in in the red zone. A guy like Bryant who is tall and can jump out of the stadium you'd think would be a great weapon for that. They're also getting too cute down in the red zone, seem to be getting predictable with many of their passes. If you're going to be predictable, send in the heavies and run it.

Bryant's feeling of not being included in the game plan enough is legitimate and a sign of a competitor. The way he's going about it is the sign of someone getting very bad advice and very young, even though he's a veteran player.
 
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