Edelman and Gilmore ejected from practice for fighting
Julian Edelman took exception to Stephon Gilmore holding him and then wrestled with him on the ground. Gilmore has also been told to leave.
Reiss also points out that the ejection is SOP when there's a fight
Incident lasted about 10-15 seconds. Bill Belichick has non-negotiable practice rule: No fights, and if you do fight, you are ejected.
Julian Edelman took exception to Stephon Gilmore holding him and then wrestled with him on the ground. Gilmore has also been told to leave.
Reiss also points out that the ejection is SOP when there's a fight
Incident lasted about 10-15 seconds. Bill Belichick has non-negotiable practice rule: No fights, and if you do fight, you are ejected.
I love this. BB levying consequences swiftly for something that might have a minimal impact on a regular season game (i.e., firing up an opponent) or a more measurable impact (15 yard penalty/ejection). Stomp out bad habits early. Always be disciplined.
It wasn't fighting but Rowe took a huge penalty in the playoffs this year against Houston when he pulled a Texans player off the pile, which I believe cost the Patriots 3 points. I know Belichick was livid and about as mad as I can remember seeing him.
I'm cool either way. Butler has some snarl to him, I'd like Gilmore wired the same way. Being physical at the line with WR is always a good thing for me.
Lets not forget Rodney's first training camp with the Pats. He turned out ok!
He was on Sirius NFL Radio yesterday and sounded different than that first sound bite/quote portrayed him.
This is a really good point. And the bolded is something that didn't really occur to me. There are plenty of good coaches. But there's only one who has that. BB has coached a great or near-great Patriot team every single year since this year's draftees were 5 years old or so.
And he did it to one guy who they just gave a shit-ton of money to, an another who is a long time vet- which puts to bed any sort of idea that the stars get preferential treatment.
And yeah, I love Edelman, but he's totally a dick, and most likely deserved whatever he got.
Holy shit that is awesome. BB really gets his players ready for anything. You never know when Mike Tomlin is near.
Coupled with the Ealy tangle at jump, Belichick growing up around Navy and how they approach group cohesion, I sorta figure they look at all these things happening early as opportunity both to figure their guys out and to instill discipline.
Heck, I wouldn't put it past Bill to stage something if the guys didn't generate some bs on their own just for the chance to make these kinds of points.
According to numerous people on Twitter, Hogan returned to the field with an ice pack taped to knee (obviously not participating in drills). A while later he removed the ice pack. Doesn't sound like anything serious.
Edit - At conclusion of practice Hogan told Reiss he was fine and the injury was nothing to be concerned about.
I'd agree, if not for the fact that I'm sure Bill probably long ago made the point to the vets that they need to generate some bs on their own, so he can make these points without having to explicitly stage anything.
I feel like Littlefinger's advice to Sansa this past Sunday was cribbed from a Belichick speech.
Hogan looks to be fine as he said it was precautionary that he iced his knee up. Edelman also looked to be slowed by injury(or could be just general camp soreness if you ask me) during practice according to beat guys.
BB's not Rex Ryan. He's not staging fights, the veterans dont need to stage fights to get his point across. Its just a simple rule enforced consistently for years. We're here to practice and improve, fighting doesnt help move the team forward, fighting in a game has consequences, therefore the right thing for the team is that if you fight you are done for the day. 90th man on the squad, done. Malcolm Butler during a joint practice, done. Two stars of the team, done. Last year, done; this year, done; next year, done.
I didnt hear the SiriusXM interview, but I would guess "last two draft classes" meant '15 and '16 if the context didnt clearly state otherwise. He just went on a rant last week about how we dont know shit about anything yet because the team hasnt had real practices, Id be mildly surprised if he was talking up the '17 draft class buy in already.
I didnt hear the SiriusXM interview, but I would guess "last two draft classes" meant '15 and '16 if the context didnt clearly state otherwise. He just went on a rant last week about how we dont know shit about anything yet because the team hasnt had real practices, Id be mildly surprised if he was talking up the '17 draft class buy in already.
https://www.boston.com/sports/extra-points/2011/11/04/eatons_pay-to-f
I love Bill Belichick in an unhealthy way, but the evidence points to him staging fights.
I love Bill Belichick in an unhealthy way, but the evidence points to him staging fights.
This article describes something a little different - trying to fire up players midseason when they've gotten stale or flat. There's no reason to do that this time of year, when they've been in camp like a week and are a month away from a game that matters.
Plus paying a practice squad player to stir shit up is different than staging a fight between two stars
I agree that it's unlikely the Edelman-Gilmore fight was staged, I'm just disagreeing with Stitch's statement that Belichick categorically doesn't stage fights.
If he were talking strictly about the players buying in to the team philosophy it's not hard to think he was talking about 16 and 17 with the additional caveat that he considers the 17 draft class to include players that the team acquired by trading picks (Cooks, Ealy, Allen, Gillislee).
http://www.espn.com/blog/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4802871/to-bill-belichick-patriots-draft-class-starts-with-four-trade-acquisitions
Yeah I dont think he'd be touting those guys buy-in either before training camp.
I know about the Eaton anecdote (didnt remember the player, but knew that anecdote was out there). I think BB operates differently in 2017 than in 2001. That described situation was a little different too.
Could be wrong on both counts.
I know about the Eaton anecdote (didnt remember the player, but knew that anecdote was out there). I think BB operates differently in 2017 than in 2001. That described situation was a little different too.
Could be wrong on both counts.
Bedard did a chat today on BSJ and said that Ealy would not make the team if cuts were made today.
I don't think BB starts or stages fights per se, but just that I'm sure there are ways of demonstrating rather than just describing the standards.
I think it would be a lot more like what @OnWisc said:
I think it's most likely that BB knows subtle ways of clearly and dramatically establishing norms and the culture of discipline he wants while maintaining the standard of treating everyone the equally from Annapolis, which I am sure is full of such traditions--some of which we already know he employs.
It's perhaps even more evident in the breach; I'm often intrigued by how many people like military metaphors for football, and yet then don't run the proverbial tight ship.
This is tough to handicap. Rivers and Wise are presumably roster locks, but it's unclear whether either will be able to contribute much early on - look at the 2015 class where they drafted Grissom and Flowers in a similar range, but neither factored in as rookies. A lot is going to depend on what kind of defensive front they run. Ealy is kind of a pure 4-3 end, but they may decide to replace Ninkovich more with a LB / edge tweener like Van Noy, McClellin, or Langi, and run more of a 3-4ish concept. Nominally they've been a 4-3 in recent years, but Nink lining up at one edge spot gave them the option of dropping him and running games and blitzes using other players. On the other, other hand, just because Ealy didn't drop into coverage much in Carolina doesn't mean he can't - witness his interception in the Super Bowl a couple years ago. There's a pretty big range of potential outcomes here.
As someone that tends to give Skip the benefit of the doubt because he's often had that Pats' backs whenever ridiculous controversy unfolds, I wonder what's bringing him to say this?
I know the easy answer is that he's just seeking eyeballs, but I wonder if he's talking about after this camp or next year.
There have been a lot of talking-head shows that have opined lately that he'll be traded after this year in order to enable BB to set the franchise up for the long-term by starting the Garoppolo era.
We've always said when the time came, Brady would leave the team a year too early rather than a year too late. Logan Mankins and Richard Seymour completely agree. I think it's possible. But yeah, I'm like 90% sure that that's what Bayless means - he just didn't have the words "After the season".
Cherish 2017, gang.
We've always said when the time came, Brady would leave the team a year too early rather than a year too late. Logan Mankins and Richard Seymour completely agree. I think it's possible. But yeah, I'm like 90% sure that that's what Bayless means - he just didn't have the words "After the season".
Cherish 2017, gang.
I really do wonder if he retires if they win #6 this year.
Of course he says he wants to play to 45, but there would be a lot of factors for him to consider if he ends up all alone, as a player, with six titles. He could also just be saying that he wants to play five more years to deflect media attention if he knows the end of his career is near. I don't see TB12 wanting a parade of Jeter and Ortiz-like goodbyes and subsequent distractions throughout his final year.
But that aside, consider:
1) Belichick's known for wanting to get rid of a player one year too early as opposed to one year too late.
2) His wife's known to be pushing for him to get away from the physicality of football.
3) His post-playing business interests are already taking off (which seem to be gravitating towards health and nutrition).
4) Jimmy G in a contract year.
5) Six Lombardis would be six more than some of the best QBs in league history ever got. How many do you really want before saying, "Alright. I'm good."
6) CTE is a real problem, and at 40 it's much harder to ignore than at 22.
I could see, next year, if they win (big IF, there), Belichick pulling Brady in for a sort of father/son "you have nothing left to prove" conversation, and telling him that while he knows he can keep playing - and playing well - it may be time to refocus on family and his future, and if he doesn't, BB may be forced to make the decision for him and hint towards a trade.
Purely speculative, of course, but sometimes I worry that 12 is so hellbent on his perfectionist and competitive ways that he'll never stop himself from continuing on...which may lead to someone else stepping in to force his hand.
Of course he says he wants to play to 45, but there would be a lot of factors for him to consider if he ends up all alone, as a player, with six titles. He could also just be saying that he wants to play five more years to deflect media attention if he knows the end of his career is near. I don't see TB12 wanting a parade of Jeter and Ortiz-like goodbyes and subsequent distractions throughout his final year.
But that aside, consider:
1) Belichick's known for wanting to get rid of a player one year too early as opposed to one year too late.
2) His wife's known to be pushing for him to get away from the physicality of football.
3) His post-playing business interests are already taking off (which seem to be gravitating towards health and nutrition).
4) Jimmy G in a contract year.
5) Six Lombardis would be six more than some of the best QBs in league history ever got. How many do you really want before saying, "Alright. I'm good."
6) CTE is a real problem, and at 40 it's much harder to ignore than at 22.
I could see, next year, if they win (big IF, there), Belichick pulling Brady in for a sort of father/son "you have nothing left to prove" conversation, and telling him that while he knows he can keep playing - and playing well - it may be time to refocus on family and his future, and if he doesn't, BB may be forced to make the decision for him and hint towards a trade.
Purely speculative, of course, but sometimes I worry that 12 is so hellbent on his perfectionist and competitive ways that he'll never stop himself from continuing on...which may lead to someone else stepping in to force his hand.
Man, if only 10% of your posts could actually have some kind of human quality to them, you'd be an infinitely more interesting read on SoSH.
Don't you get bored playing the same character day in and day out?
Learn to take a joke. You're honestly suggesting that Brady is going to be told to retire or else be traded.
His owner refers to him as a son. He will go out on his own terms and Jimmy G isn't changing that. Injury or when he hits the cliff is the only thing that's ending his career in NE unless he makes the call to retire.
He's the most competitive athlete we've seen here since Bird and perhaps one of the most ever, up there with Jordan, Ali etc. I think it's close to zero percentage you ever see him say 'gee, I'm still playing well, our team is still stacked, but six rings is enough for me.'
His owner refers to him as a son. He will go out on his own terms and Jimmy G isn't changing that. Injury or when he hits the cliff is the only thing that's ending his career in NE unless he makes the call to retire.
He's the most competitive athlete we've seen here since Bird and perhaps one of the most ever, up there with Jordan, Ali etc. I think it's close to zero percentage you ever see him say 'gee, I'm still playing well, our team is still stacked, but six rings is enough for me.'
I can take a good joke, I just struggle the old and tired, "I don't agree with your point, so [insert pot shot here]," as opposed to engaging in meaningful dialogue.
Of course, it's hard to argue that what you're saying is the most plausible and easy-to-predict scenario. But we've also never seen the team handle someone quite of Brady's stature at the end of their careers. In the past, when "the time" has come, BB has pulled popular players aside and had the retirement and/or trade discussion with impunity as it pertains to ownership. Given the way the organization (at least from BB down to Brady himself) has preached consistency and level expectations for everyone that steps on the field, there's a part of me that thinks Brady wouldn't expect nor receive special treatment when it comes to decisions that are made in the best interest of the team.
I mean, I'm sure everyone involved would pause to think long and hard about everything, because when he retires or in the unlikely situation that he's released or traded a media circus would follow. But one way or another, in a year or five years from now, Brady's career is going to end. We all know this. The question is who's the one pulling the trigger on that, and timing is everything.
Of course, it's hard to argue that what you're saying is the most plausible and easy-to-predict scenario. But we've also never seen the team handle someone quite of Brady's stature at the end of their careers. In the past, when "the time" has come, BB has pulled popular players aside and had the retirement and/or trade discussion with impunity as it pertains to ownership. Given the way the organization (at least from BB down to Brady himself) has preached consistency and level expectations for everyone that steps on the field, there's a part of me that thinks Brady wouldn't expect nor receive special treatment when it comes to decisions that are made in the best interest of the team.
I mean, I'm sure everyone involved would pause to think long and hard about everything, because when he retires or in the unlikely situation that he's released or traded a media circus would follow. But one way or another, in a year or five years from now, Brady's career is going to end. We all know this. The question is who's the one pulling the trigger on that, and timing is everything.
Brady is closing in on a lot of Peyton records. It would be kinda nice to pass him before retiring...I'm petty like that.
- 4 wins and he's got more than Peyton
- 83 TD's below Peyton (unlikely to pass him unless he goes 3 more)
- 10358 Yards below Manning (Would need 2+ years to pass)
- 4 wins and he's got more than Peyton
- 83 TD's below Peyton (unlikely to pass him unless he goes 3 more)
- 10358 Yards below Manning (Would need 2+ years to pass)
He already has more wins than Peyton, but I know you are referring to regular season.
3 years seems like the perfect amount, he can break the yardage and TD records. Of course Brees might have something to say about that too
I feel like 3 is asking too much.
I don't want him to fall apart in front of us, I want him to go out on top like Ortiz.
By all accounts, Eric Rowe (playing largely in the slot) has been terrific in camp so far. Several INTs and pass breakups so far and shutting guys down all over the place.
Which is all great and valid, but Brady has no comp in any player they have ever had - in stature, performance or significance to the organization.
This isn't trading Lawyer Milloy or Richard Seymour a year early. It's not telling Vince Wilfork he's not worth his money anymore or telling Wes Welker he's cooked, so sure, go get that money somewhere else.
I don't doubt Brady expects to be treated like everyone else, because that's in part why he is what he is. It also doesn't mean he isn't treated differently. Has the team ever gone to war with the league for another player? Have they ever hung another players likeness on the light tower, in part in protest? Has Kraft ever referred to another player as a son? Even today, have they ever before celebrated a players birthday and erected a GOAT display and put on a show?
I give Brady enough credit that he will know when his time is up. He dedicates pretty much every minute of his life to his job, he's going to be the first to know when he starts slipping. And this team isn't good enough without him to pull off a Manning-2015-like SB win with him in decline. So, no, I don't see him winning a ring and walking away. As long as this guy thinks he can compete he will want to suit up. And as long as he wants to suit up it will be with a Flying Elvis on his helmet. He's done enough for the franchise to earn his own ability to write his final chapter and I don't for one second foresee Kraft or BB taking that away from him. Even beyond the fact the fanbase would revolt, they know far more about all that then we ever will.