2017 Patriots FA & Trades Thread

tims4wins

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Just kind of spitballing here but shouldn't the Pats be exploring any opportunity to trade down from 118 to somewhere 119-131 to pick up an extra pick? even if it is just a 2018 7th rounder.
 

Ed Hillel

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How do they end up spending that? It looks like they won't have to allocate as much to the draft, even if they re-sign Hightower, extend Butler, and sign a veteran RB they'll still have plenty of room, correct?
Pats have some contracts that hit more on the cap in the next couple seasons and will have free agents down the line to consider. I think they'll probably end up rolling at least 15 million over just to be safe.

It's nice to have the best coach and GM in the league, though. What we're seeing now is what happens when you win the Superbowl during a year where an injured all-pro Tacke making 5 mil is your worst asset. The Pats had arguably ZERO bad contracts on their team last season. I guess maybe Ghost? But that's minor and he was still serviceable.
 
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Red Averages

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Pats have some contracts that hit more on the cap in the next couple seasons and will have free agents down the line to consider. I think they'll probably end up rolling at least 15 million over just to be safe.
Interesting. Any idea historically what they've chosen to roll over?
 

Ed Hillel

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Interesting. Any idea historically what they've chosen to roll over?
It's usually in the 5-10ish range. I honestly don't see how they spend 35 million at this point, though, even if Hightower comes in at the higher end for 2017 (16 millionish). Even if you extend Butler and sign Fluker, they're short.
 

kenneycb

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What was the deal with Ziggy Ansah last year? He's the only one that's had anything you'd describe as success, unless you count Tavon Wilson's ability to steal money from the Rams.
 

Cellar-Door

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Just kind of spitballing here but shouldn't the Pats be exploring any opportunity to trade down from 118 to somewhere 119-131 to pick up an extra pick? even if it is just a 2018 7th rounder.
I don;t think they can. There is a prohibition on trading the pick that is in line to be forfeited.
 

edmunddantes

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Interesting. Any idea historically what they've chosen to roll over?
Usually at least 5 million for injury replacements or trades.
Colin seems to differ; but he's been wrong before

Ben Volin‏Verified account @BenVolin 3h3 hours ago
That said, the pick doesn’t forfeit until draft night, so Pats can still trade 4-118. They forfeit their highest 4th
He's an idiot. Trading it away would impair the penalty by worsening the pick forfeited.

Rule was written explicitly to keep Pats from messing with the penalty because of spygate 49ers pick. The penalty is their highest owned pick and it can't be impaired. So whatever is the currrent highest pick is forfeit and doesn't exist, unless a higher is obtained.
 

Saints Rest

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Colin seems to differ; but he's been wrong before

Ben Volin‏Verified account @BenVolin 3h3 hours ago
That said, the pick doesn’t forfeit until draft night, so Pats can still trade 4-118. They forfeit their highest 4th
I had had Volin's take on it as well, but reading the language of the penalty posted above makes it sound that the Pats cannot trade the top 4th round pick at any time it's in their possession as their highest pick. So when they only had their own pick, they couldn't trade that one. Once they picked up the Seattle pick, they couldn't trade that one but could then trade their own. Now in picking up the Saints' pick, they can now trade the Seattle one or their own, but not the NO one.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Pats have some contracts that hit more on the cap in the next couple seasons and will have free agents down the line to consider. I think they'll probably end up rolling at least 15 million over just to be safe.
They'll need an extra $8 million alone just to pay Cooks next year above what he's making this year, assuming they exercise his option in a few weeks. They could cut him or restructure him before the next league year if he's not injured, but at least for planning purposes they need to have that room.
 

Bergs

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Rule was written explicitly to keep Pats from messing with the penalty because of spygate 49ers pick. The penalty is their highest owned pick and it can't be impaired. So whatever is the currrent highest pick is forfeit and doesn't exist, unless a higher is obtained.
This reminds me that fuck Roger Goodell.
 

tims4wins

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Per Reiss it sounds like the Pats were moving on from Bennett regardless. Kind of makes sense given age and injuries
 

SeoulSoxFan

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Mehta at it again:

@MMehtaNYDN
Darrelle Revis should beg @Patriots for forgiveness to take him back after clearing legal hurdles (hearing tomorrow) nydn.us/2njVFMo


I still think Revis has something to offer. Perhaps as a SS?
 

Toe Nash

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I don't think he's better than Chung or Harmon for a team who likes its secondary to make tackles. If we didn't have McCourty I'd say he might work at FS. But we do.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Miguel tweet says as of now the cap space with everyone except Hightower is around $31.4 million. Add back in at least $5 million for an Amendola cut/restructure. Figure Hightower will be $8 million or so. Butler trade would add $4 million back in.

Edit: Actually, to get technical about it, I think a Butler trade would actually only add back in about $3.4 million because whomever is at spot 52 would move up to 51 and probably is around $500k.
 

tims4wins

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Miguel says the cap space with everyone except Hightower is now around $31.3 million. Add back in at least $5 million for an Amendola cut/restructure. Figure Hightower will be $8 million or so. Butler trade would add $4 million back in.
Damn we should have signed Ryan too!
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Damn we should have signed Ryan too!
Just to give a sense -- even if the Patriots were to make Hightower's deal completely pay as you go and not defer any cap hit, were to resign Amendola at something crazy high like 2/8, and give Butler Gilmore's deal, they would still have something like $21.5 million left. Future years would be tougher, but just an FYI.

(Math: Amendola restructure at 2/8 would save the Patriots about $4 million. Gilmore contract for Butler would cost $8.4 million in cap hit this year but add back in $3.91 million currently against the cap because of the tender. Pay as you go for Hightower is $10.7 or so, but back out $540k since adding him drops the current guy in the 51 spot on the roster to 52.)
 

finnVT

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What are the rules on carrying money over? Cle had something like 50mil to roll over this season... could they theoretically do this for a few seasons and then either blow it all on a 300mil year, or spread it out and essentially play with a cap that's 10-20mil higher than everyone else for the next decade? Is the only thing limiting this the 90% spending minimum, or are there other explicit limits on how much can be rolled over?
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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My understanding is that it all rolls over without any limit. The spending floor is a theoretical limit but right now it's not much of one since that's a four year look back and the current 4 year period is 2017 through 2020 so there is plenty of time for a team to fix any problem.
 
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Stitch01

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Seems like there's still room for a couple more guys, maybe one more decent dollar acquisition. Who is still out there of interest on defense. Dumervil a possible fit? Sam Shields gamble if he ever is healthy? Revisit Odrick?
 

tims4wins

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Several veteran CBs out there, pending what happens with Butler.

Dontari Poe is also still out there, but they seem pretty set at DT.

Edit: or they could give some $$$ to Jimmy and lock him up
 

Stuffy McInnis

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What are the rules on carrying money over? Cle had something like 50mil to roll over this season... could they theoretically do this for a few seasons and then either blow it all on a 300mil year, or spread it out and essentially play with a cap that's 10-20mil higher than everyone else for the next decade? Is the only thing limiting this the 90% spending minimum, or are there other explicit limits on how much can be rolled over?
Here's the rule from the CBA

(v) Carrying Over Room. A Club may “carry over” Room from one League Year to the following League Year by submitting notice in writing signed by the owner to the NFL no later than fourteen (14) days prior to the start of the next League Year indicating the maximum amount of Room that the Club wishes to carry over. The NFL shall promptly provide a copy of any such notice to the NFLPA. The amount of Room carried over will be adjusted downward based on the final Room available after the year-end reconciliation
 

bankshot1

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Who is still out there of interest on defense?.

Connor Barwin (LB/edge guy, ex-Eagle) is still a FA. I always thought he was very disruptive and had a great nose for the ball.

always struck me as a Pats type player.

No idea what he wants.
 

bankshot1

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I don't know if he burned bridges, but if Butler is gone, I might inquire about Revis as a 3rd corner/nickel D back, on a 1 yr. heavily incentive-laden deal.

He was embarrassed last year and might be motivated to redeem himself.
 

mwonow

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I don't know if he burned bridges, but if Butler is gone, I might inquire about Revis as a 3rd corner/nickel D back, on a 1 yr. heavily incentive-laden deal.

He was embarrassed last year and might be motivated to redeem himself.
I don't think what's left of Revis lines up all that well with Pats' needs - but Revis returning for a second year and winning a second ring (giving him twice as many Lombardis as the Jets) would be almost painfully funny
 

Stitch01

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I half expect Revis to take the year off to save wear and tear while me makes $6MM then come back next year.
 

E5 Yaz

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If they were truly going to sign another name player, I think I'd look at Nick Mangold (who, I realize, would cost too much). The Patriots got incredibly lucky in terms of OL health this past season. Mangold in rotation at C and G (where teams are asking him to try) would be a quality addition.

And screw the NY Cupcakes
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Looking at next year I think the Patriots, as silly as it sounds given the numbers I mentioned above, are starting to run out of space just a bit. Brady's cap hit is $8 million more next year and I don't think there's much extending left that can be done there. Cooks will be an extra $8 million, assuming they don't extend him. Hightower and Gilmore are close to uncuttable, and will have big numbers. Goroppolo may be a situation that requires some cap flexibility. They have some money coming off the books, but also some big shoes to fill for free agents and I think maybe it's time to round up the horses and put them in the barn for this free agency period, leaving a light on perhaps for Butler.
 
Who is still out there of interest on defense?.

Connor Barwin (LB/edge guy, ex-Eagle) is still a FA. I always thought he was very disruptive and had a great nose for the ball.

always struck me as a Pats type player.

No idea what he wants.
This is the player I really want too. He makes so much sense for the Patriots considering Long is a goner and Ninkovich is coming off a down year. Barwin is pretty versatile but is a much better fit in a 3-4 scheme, that's why I find it curious that he had a visit with the Bengals the other day. He's meeting with the Rams today, which makes a lot more sense considering they'll primarily run a 3-4 under new coordinator Wade Phillips.
 

Stitch01

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Maybe.

Id guess they have something like $22-$23MM left post Hightower and $5MM-$6.5MM they're going to get with whatever they do with Amendola. So theyre gonna be at $27-$30MM (and right now they don't have any high draft picks they need to sign). Its reasonable for them to roll $10-$15MM into next year, but seems like there's still some room to go before they get there.

They have Solder's $11..2MM cap number on the books this year which will come down next year to offset some of the Brady $8MM step up.

Id expect plan A is to extend Cooks, although obviously no idea how that negotiation will go.

Other high cap numbers on this years team that may be gone changed next year: McCourty (maybe an extension, dead money much lower in '19), Edelman (contract up at what's become a decent depth chart even without Edelman and, if they do sign Edelman, Hogan is cuttable), Allen (can basically be cut without cost, future might be tied to Gronk/draft), Gronk (decent chance next year is the decision point on a new contract or moving on, salary jumps from low 4s to $8MM) Ghost (cap number going to $5MM)

Not a lot besides Butler on the costly extension front. Solder would see his cap number go down with a new deal, Edelman is up and would cost a few million of cap, Slater is important but shouldn't break the bank. White and Fleming and Ebner, but none should be a big number. Don't know what Ealy is yet.

They're set up pretty well right now cap wise.
 
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SeoulSoxFan

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The Patriots got incredibly lucky in terms of OL health this past season.
Too bad Zuttah just got traded to the 49ers instead of getting released by the Ravens.

Speaking of a former Raven, the one I am keeping an eye out is G John Urschel (the MIT math wiz). He's an FA this year but very little news.

Would be a solid depth move (only 26). He'll certainly feel right at home with Patricia & Fleming:

http://www.espn.com/blog/baltimore-ravens/post/_/id/27798/head-of-the-class-ravens-john-urschel-gets-straight-as-in-four-phd-courses-at-mit
 

Super Nomario

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Too bad Zuttah just got traded to the 49ers instead of getting released by the Ravens.

Speaking of a former Raven, the one I am keeping an eye out is G John Urschel (the MIT math wiz). He's an FA this year but very little news.

Would be a solid depth move (only 26). He'll certainly feel right at home with Patricia & Fleming:

http://www.espn.com/blog/baltimore-ravens/post/_/id/27798/head-of-the-class-ravens-john-urschel-gets-straight-as-in-four-phd-courses-at-mit
I'm pretty sure Baltimore still has Urschel another year. He was drafted in '14 so '17 will be his fourth season.
 

nothumb

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Jeff Howe‏ @jeffphowe 10h10 hours ago
Robert Kraft: “For me, personally, I believe that privilege (of playing in the NFL) is lost for men who have a history of abusing women.”

***

So, Adrian Peterson is still on the table
For Kraft to find a way to say something I basically agree with, but to do it in a way that comes off smarmy and paternalistic and obnoxious on about three different levels, is some Andrew Cuomo level grossness for sure.