2017 NBA Draft Thread

TheRealness

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Ringer draft guide:

http://nbadraft.theringer.com/?source=collection_home---2------0-----------

Most interesting to me is Kevin O'Connor's top 5:

1. Fultz
2. Tatum
3. Ball
4. Jackson
5. Fox
The podcast where he explains it (High Upside, iirc) is pretty good. He seems to think Tatum is a good fit for Boston, as they need secondary scoring and he's very high on Tatum's "feel" for the game on the offensive end. Worth a listen if you have 30-40 minutes to spare.
 

Eddie Jurak

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The podcast where he explains it (High Upside, iirc) is pretty good. He seems to think Tatum is a good fit for Boston, as they need secondary scoring and he's very high on Tatum's "feel" for the game on the offensive end. Worth a listen if you have 30-40 minutes to spare.
Yes. Heard the pod and it was very interesting. I've been a fan of O'Connor's coverage for a couple of years. He makes a good case for Tatum on the Celtics.
 

LondonSox

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Ringer draft guide:

http://nbadraft.theringer.com/?source=collection_home---2------0-----------

Most interesting to me is Kevin O'Connor's top 5:

1. Fultz
2. Tatum
3. Ball
4. Jackson
5. Fox
I think there is basically a tier 1 (fultz) and then a lot of debate after. Some are 100% sold on ball and others not so much.
Tatum is also similar, some love him and think Carmelo with better def and passing (not for me his shooting is nowhere close). Fox some love and some think will never shoot.

Anyway I disagree re the Celtics stacked at every position. I mean they are but bar IT and maybe horford there is no star.
If they draft a star he'll get time except maybe at point. With smart and it that's tricky.
But seriously Jackson or Tatum isn't getting real minutes? Fultz cant play minutes at the 2? Same for ball.

I wouldn't love Ball for the Celtics. He's not a primary creator for me, and can you play ball with IT? Not defensively without some real rim protection behind.

The Celtics need a secondary or primary initiator this draft or next. Position be damned to some extent. You can't run the offense through brown or crowder etc
 

HomeRunBaker

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I think there is basically a tier 1 (fultz) and then a lot of debate after. Some are 100% sold on ball and others not so much.
Tatum is also similar, some love him and think Carmelo with better def and passing (not for me his shooting is nowhere close). Fox some love and some think will never shoot.

Anyway I disagree re the Celtics stacked at every position. I mean they are but bar IT and maybe horford there is no star.
If they draft a star he'll get time except maybe at point. With smart and it that's tricky.
But seriously Jackson or Tatum isn't getting real minutes? Fultz cant play minutes at the 2? Same for ball.

I wouldn't love Ball for the Celtics. He's not a primary creator for me, and can you play ball with IT? Not defensively without some real rim protection behind.

The Celtics need a secondary or primary initiator this draft or next. Position be damned to some extent. You can't run the offense through brown or crowder etc
Not if they want to put up numbers for their second contract. They will not only be playing behind the starters.......but also behind the teams draft picks the past three years in Smart, Rozier, and Jaylen.....not to mention Zizic and Yabusele if it's a big. From an agents perspective he is looking to put their client in the best position to get minutes and numbers Boston is going to be a tough place for this years pick to do it.
 

nighthob

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I don't think a big has anything to worry about from YaBooty. The Celtics need him to commit to playing overseas next year in order to make any free agent offers.

And before you break out the "No max player will ever sign with the Celtics!!!" spiel, if they're forgoing the free agent market then there's plenty of opportunity for young players here given that their third best starter is a role player (albeit a very good one).
 

HomeRunBaker

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I don't think a big has anything to worry about from YaBooty. The Celtics need him to commit to playing overseas next year in order to make any free agent offers.

And before you break out the "No max player will ever sign with the Celtics!!!" spiel, if they're forgoing the free agent market then there's plenty of opportunity for young players here given that their third best starter is a role player (albeit a very good one).
Ainge already said he would be in Boston next year. I'm sure Yabu's agent is insisting on beginning his clock as well and the agreement to play overseas prior to being drafted was for one season.

Where would the young players have opportunities when they are behind other high draft picks who can't even crack the starting lineup yet?
 

LondonSox

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I don't know I would think playoff exposure is a big deal too. But what do I know. I appreciate it's harder to get minutes but when you do it's vs back ups and so forth.
 

JakeRae

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I don't think a big has anything to worry about from YaBooty. The Celtics need him to commit to playing overseas next year in order to make any free agent offers.

And before you break out the "No max player will ever sign with the Celtics!!!" spiel, if they're forgoing the free agent market then there's plenty of opportunity for young players here given that their third best starter is a role player (albeit a very good one).
Don't they just need to either trade Bradley for not salary or renounce Olynyk?
 

Sprowl

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How many Eurostashes will be available in the second round? Tankathon's mock draft lists five internationals in the second round below the 37th pick:

Kostja Mushidi, 6'5
Mathias Lessort, 6'9
Anžejs Pasečņiks, 7'2
Arnoldas Kulboka, 6'9
Alpha Kaba, 6'10
 

HomeRunBaker

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We'll get the third one as there's no way anyone can pronounce his name
All kidding aside Pasecniks will never last until 37. He's a surefire 1st rounder imo with a potential to be a "Who? Picked Where?" surprise and a poor mans thicker version of Porzingis. He saw limited time in a very good Spanish league and wasn't allowed to shoot 3's but clearly has NBA 3-point range and is a pure shooter. Like most foreign bigs he excels in pick-n-rolls to the basket but his perimeter shot was underutilized but it sure won't be in the spacing game of the NBA.
 

Big John

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I think there is basically a tier 1 (fultz) and then a lot of debate after.
I don't think Fultz is the only guy in tier 1. Tier 1 is Fultz, Ball, Jackson, Tatum. I'm happy with any of those 4. Obviously the No. 1 pick has the most trade value, but it's unclear as to who will become the best player. In fact I would not be surprised if Frank Ntilikina turns out to be the best guard in this draft, better than Fultz or Ball. Ntilikina has a 7-0 wingspan and is terrific defensively.
 

DJnVa

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I don't think Fultz is the only guy in tier 1. Tier 1 is Fultz, Ball, Jackson, Tatum. I'm happy with any of those 4. Obviously the No. 1 pick has the most trade value, but it's unclear as to who will become the best player. In fact I would not be surprised if Frank Ntilikina turns out to be the best guard in this draft, better than Fultz or Ball. Ntilikina has a 7-0 wingspan and is terrific defensively.
Fox has caught Ball in a lot of places, so either he's also in Tier 1 or Ball is sliding out of it.
 

Big John

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Fox has caught Ball in a lot of places, so either he's also in Tier 1 or Ball is sliding out of it.
Fox (6-61/2 wingspan) and Monk (6-3 wingspan) have short arms. For comparison, Marcus Smart's wingspan was 6-91/2 at the combine and Rozier's was 6-8. I believe that's an important measurement when evaluating a player's defensive potential.

But sure, no reason why "Tier 1" can't have 5-6 guys in it, and Fox is very talented. It's a deep draft.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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I don't think Fultz is the only guy in tier 1. Tier 1 is Fultz, Ball, Jackson, Tatum. I'm happy with any of those 4. Obviously the No. 1 pick has the most trade value, but it's unclear as to who will become the best player. In fact I would not be surprised if Frank Ntilikina turns out to be the best guard in this draft, better than Fultz or Ball. Ntilikina has a 7-0 wingspan and is terrific defensively.
Fultz also has a 7'0" wingspan.

As a contrarian myself yes you can find random people who put someone above Fultz, but I'd guess 90% of all draftniks see Fultz at #1 for a few very good reasons, such as having elite athleticism even for the NBA, being able to score at all three levels, and being able to run an offense (particularly a PnR offense) and control pace.

The other three you mentioned (and Fox for that matter) all have warts. Ball, I've mentioned. Tatum and Fox, everyone knows their issues. Jackson is older, had a lot of success playing the 4 at Kansas but isn't built to play 4 at the NBA level (he's at least 20 pounds lighter than JB and has a lanky frame)., and has a short wingspan (6'9.75"). and has shooting questions.

I suspect that if any GM had to start a team from scratch, they'd all take Fultz.
 

smastroyin

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I would definitely take the field against Fultz. There's a pretty good chance he'll end up not being the best player in the draft. He's not LeBron. But as I've noted in the past, the Celtics only get one choice and I think if you are making one choice, the preference by far is Fultz especially if you're looking for ceiling.
 

Kliq

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The more I think about Lonzo the more I think of him just getting destroyed by Fox. It isn't like the NBA is short on lightning-fast guards who can get to the rim. If the concerns about him being able to get his shot off at the professional level turn out to be real, we are not talking about a future star. That isn't even taking into account the LaVar baggage.
 

nighthob

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I would definitely take the field against Fultz. There's a pretty good chance he'll end up not being the best player in the draft. He's not LeBron.
But there is a pretty good chance that he ends up being the next James Harden.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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I would definitely take the field against Fultz. There's a pretty good chance he'll end up not being the best player in the draft. He's not LeBron. But as I've noted in the past, the Celtics only get one choice and I think if you are making one choice, the preference by far is Fultz especially if you're looking for ceiling.
So would I. But that's due to injury risk alone.

However, if we were going to put money on which draftee ended up in the most All-Star games (crude measure I understand) and I took Fultz, would you be comfortable taking the other side of that bet with any other player in the draft? I wouldn't.

Of course, now that I've gone and written all of this, there's no way the NBA is letting the Cs end up with Fultz, is there? :eek:
 

smastroyin

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No, there is no single player I think has a better chance than Fultz.

But, I'm sure in 10 years if some guy from the draft is Russell Westbrook and Fultz is merely Derrick Rose people will come back to this thread and talk about how Danny should have drafted differently and they called it, while ignoring that they also said they'd take Michael Beasley or OJ Mayo.
 

NoXInNixon

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I can't tell if people are joking or not about the lottery being rigged. With the current system, rigging it would require the silence of all the teams in the lottery. It just defies common sense that all the losing teams would go along.
 

nighthob

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If Boston merely drafted an MVP level player whose career was shortened by injury I don't think that people would be complaining about the selection so much as the bad luck. Rose was Westbrook before Westbrook was. The knee explosion was just bad luck. Fultz, as a shooter, has a much bigger safety net to work with.
 

LondonSox

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I don't think Fultz is the only guy in tier 1. Tier 1 is Fultz, Ball, Jackson, Tatum. I'm happy with any of those 4. Obviously the No. 1 pick has the most trade value, but it's unclear as to who will become the best player. In fact I would not be surprised if Frank Ntilikina turns out to be the best guard in this draft, better than Fultz or Ball. Ntilikina has a 7-0 wingspan and is terrific defensively.
I disagree and all my favourite draft watchers agree fwiw.
Fultz is a level above. But you are right the guys below have more upside than. Penal drafts.

Fox has caught Ball in a lot of places, so either he's also in Tier 1 or Ball is sliding out of it.
Ball is sliding out of it.
He can't dribble and he can't run a pick and roll. Also can only shoot going left
Fox needs to learn to shoot. Ball needs to learn to dribble.

Floor is higher for ball imo. He's going to be a shooter/ floor spacer and secondary creation guy. Fox has a floor of a transition and d guy.
 

DJnVa

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Depends on what you read; see http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Markelle-Fultz-90302/
Perhaps he grew.

Oh, Fultz has the pedigree: DeMatha, McDonalds AA, etc. He's very gifted. But when you watch film, he takes plays off on defense, and not just once in awhile.
That does happen, but I've read enough about him that said the kid cares and works, it's just that he had to do so much on offense that he took some time off on the other end.
 

slamminsammya

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If Boston merely drafted an MVP level player whose career was shortened by injury I don't think that people would be complaining about the selection so much as the bad luck. Rose was Westbrook before Westbrook was. The knee explosion was just bad luck. Fultz, as a shooter, has a much bigger safety net to work with.
This is being revisionist about Derrick Rose. He wasn't as good as his reputation even pre-injury.
 

Steve Dillard

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I'm going to shut down all media on the 16th so as not to jinx this. So far, my realgm sims have us picking 4, 4, 3 and 1. In total, I'm about 60% for the 4th pick. It's going to be a kick in the balls dreaming of Fultz, being pleased with Ball, and accepting Jackson at 3, but having to take a project like Tatum, Isaacs.

Just checked in for first time 3 minutes ago. You're all welcome.
 

DannyDarwinism

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So what do we make of Fultz' FT% being just .649?
A minor yellow flag, but mitigated by his good 3PT% and a large sample of excellent mid-range shooting. On 327 jump shots, of which, only about 28% were assisted, he shot 42.8% (41.3 from 3, 43.8 from 2). That's outstanding for an 18 year old shooting mostly of the dribble.
 

BigSoxFan

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I'd trade the #1 plus for Jimmy Butler in a second! Butler and then sign Hayward and hope Zizic and Yalu are ready to contribute. That team will beat Cleveland and challenge for a title.
No. No. No.

You don't trade a #1 pick for a guy who will be 28 years-old in September.
 

Big John

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Oh my, yes in a Len Bias heartbeat... But that would take much, much more. I'd start, if I was NO, with next year's Nets pick included, Bradley, Rozier, and Zizic. And that might not be enough. Maybe Smart or Jaylen too.
New Orleans could ask for the moon, but the fact is that Davis and Cousins isn't going to work. Now that Gentry and Demps have some job security, they should be more willing to make moves. IMHO #1, Bradley, Crowder and a future non-Brooklyn first ought to be enough if they like Fultz. That's an instant quality staring lineup on a team that is currently garbage except for Cousins and Davis.
 

Steve Dillard

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No. No. No.

You don't trade a #1 pick for a guy who will be 28 years-old in September.
You trade it for 2 35 year olds.

I do wonder how AB and Smart feel now.
And now start thinking about next year's draft class. That Slovak forward is supposed to be something, right? Though looks like there's 3 big men ahead of him.
http://www.nbadraft.net/2018mock_draft
 
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Kliq

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This is being revisionist about Derrick Rose. He wasn't as good as his reputation even pre-injury.
I compared the numbers about a month ago, MVP Rose had a worse season than 2017 Damian Lillard, who didn't make the AllStar team and won't make All-NBA.
 

DJnVa

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You trade it for 2 35 year olds.

I do wonder how AB and Smart feel now.
And now start thinking about next year's draft class. That Slovak forward is supposed to be something, right? Though looks like there's 3 big men ahead of him.
http://www.nbadraft.net/2018mock_draft
I don't think Porter is a "big" in the sense you're thinking. His profile says 6'10, the write-up says 6'9, the it says measured at 6'8. His NBA comparison at that link is Joe Johnson.
 

Ale Xander

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I'd trade the #1 plus for Jimmy Butler in a second! Butler and then sign Hayward and hope Zizic and Yalu are ready to contribute. That team will beat Cleveland and challenge for a title.
Ewwwww

Jimmy Butler is so replaceable. And overrated.

#1 PLUS?

NO THANK YOU

You don't need Butler if you have Heyward anyway (with IT, Smart, AB, Rozier, Brown, draft pick)
 

Ale Xander

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No. No. No.

You don't trade a #1 pick for a guy who will be 28 years-old in September.
I'd consider a trade centered around #1 for a 28 year old, if it's Russ.

Something like Bradley + #1 + future own #1 for Russ +Adams + Abrines
 

BigSoxFan

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I'd consider a trade centered around #1 for a 28 year old, if it's Russ.

Something like Bradley + #1 + future own #1 for Russ +Adams + Abrines
OKC would laugh at that offer. Westbrook hasn't shown any inclination to leave so OKC has no incentive to trade him since doing so basically turns them into Orlando with tornados.
 

LondonSox

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Ewwwww

Jimmy Butler is so replaceable. And overrated.

#1 PLUS?

NO THANK YOU

You don't need Butler if you have Heyward anyway (with IT, Smart, AB, Rozier, Brown, draft pick)
This is a redonk take on butler. He's in his prime and a top 10 ish player.

I wouldn't trade fultz on most teams but.. the Celtics have three good guards no?
 

LondonSox

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Congrats you bastards. Ugh.
Celtics 1 lakers 2 sickening.

On the plus side lololololol the pick swap happened and sixers get third instead of fifth lol.

So right now.
3rd pick this year
Own and unprotected Lakers 1st next
Own plus unprotected Kings 1st year after
Oh and btw the knicks second pick for the next three years. So like a late first lol.

Interesting to see how this goes.
Fultz one obviously. Don't overthink this.
It's got to be all second. But Jackson is a better fit imo. But will 99% be ball.

Leaving the sixers in a tricky spot.
Jackson is probably best player available. And what a third banana potentially. But sixers have Covington tlc and korkmaz. If he can shoot Jackson Simmons embiid is eek fun and scary.

If he can't Simmons and Jackson could be shooting and spacing disaster.

Could take dsj or reach on monk for fit.

I'd love to trade down with kings for 5/10.
Take monk at 5 and see who is left at 10

Or of course fultz gets hurt and has to sit a year and then he's a sixer! A real one