2017 NBA Draft Thread

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Josh Jackson is going a generate a ton of articles after the tournament and before the draft.

In his last nine games, he's shooting .516 from 3P Land on 31 attempts, which is SSS but growing.

OTOH, he's shooting .533 from the FT line on 92 attempts, which is amazing how many attempts he is getting but also amazing how many he's missing.

Hopefully interesting question. Fultz is shooting .649 from the FT line. If Johnson were shooting .500 from 3P line and .750 from the FT line - even with his mechanics - would he be the #1 pick in the draft?

If the Cs were to get Johnson, I can't remember a team with two athletically gifted wings as JJ and JB (admittedly that may be because my memory is failing).
 

ifmanis5

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Jackson's motor plus his athleticism is pretty impressive. Jackson, Brown and Smart on the floor pressing at the same time would be hellacious and fun as hell to watch.
 

bowiac

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Really? Have you looked at Brown's mechanics lately? His improvement/development has been impressive. Far better than I thought as I wasn't a fan of the pick. In hindsight, I think DA nailed this one. His shot now looks clean, tight, and consistent. And for a 20 year old, he gets into the lane pretty well. Smart has a big dip and motion in his shot. It must be hard for him to get a feel for his shot when it needs to be quick.
I was referring to my views Brown pre-draft, and why I wouldn't have picked him there. I agree Brown has looked much better than I expected. He still has real problems finishing at the rim, and standard rookie issues, but my predraft assessment looks like a pretty bad call right now.

Doesn't really much for me re: Jackson of course.
 

Big John

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Jackson's motor plus his athleticism is pretty impressive. Jackson, Brown and Smart on the floor pressing at the same time would be hellacious and fun as hell to watch.
Unless Jackson, Brown and/or Smart are playing for the Chicago Bulls.
 

Kliq

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Do you guys remember when Seventh Woods was going to be the best basketball prospect since LeBron? Anyone know what happened to him? He's toiling away at UNC and it looks like just another case of a kid getting hyped up and then the rest of his age group matures and passes him by.
 

nighthob

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As a 14 or 15 year old he had hype, though I don't remember it being LeBron 2.0 hype. But he stopped growing, more or less. It happens. See OJ Mayo and Lance Stephenson for other examples of guys that outphysicaled the 15 year old competition but stopped growing physically thereafter.
 

BigSoxFan

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Do you guys remember when Seventh Woods was going to be the best basketball prospect since LeBron? Anyone know what happened to him? He's toiling away at UNC and it looks like just another case of a kid getting hyped up and then the rest of his age group matures and passes him by.
Feel like OJ Mayo qualifies here as well although he did end up having a decent NBA career.
 

Drocca

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I've watched Seventh play for almost five years now. At one point, for the briefest of moments (literally one Summer), he was a few inches taller than his classmates. But he always played the same way - very fast, oftentimes too fast for his handle, with high-risk/high-reward highlight style plays.

It became clear two years ago that he was going to have an issue. He was just not a point guard. He didn't have the shot to play the two-guard. So he's now at Carolina where, by the end of his career, I expect he will slow down and the game will slow down and he will become a Telfair-lite type of player. He is not an NBA prospect.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Jackson's motor plus his athleticism is pretty impressive. Jackson, Brown and Smart on the floor pressing at the same time would be hellacious and fun as hell to watch.
Absolutely. Just to reinforce this, I'm going to post this Marc Spears article from last June with a few quotes to make this possibility even more tantalizing: http://theundefeated.com/features/hes-got-a-game-to-match-his-mouth/.

(1) Toughest player Josh Jackson has ever had to play against: Jaylen Brown (its in the video, not the article).

(2) Fran Fraschilla compared Jackson's competitive drive to: KG. And does this sound like anyone from the Cs: “Every drill, he wants to be first. . . . . Every scrimmage, he wants to be the best. He just has an alpha dog mentality. He still has things he has to work on to improve. But in this class going into college next year, he’s as intense a player as there is in terms of his attitude as I’ve seen in the last five to 10 years. . . . Kevin Durant took my breath away with his talent. But this kid, he wants to win every single drill. Whoever is on the court who is considered at his level, he wants to guard them and dominate them.”

(3) In a pickup game in Detroit two years go. [Draymond] Green chose to guard Jackson and made a point to trash-talk to him and stop him from scoring. While Green accomplished his defensive goal, he respected Jackson for never backing down. They’ve been close ever since.

(4) Jackson even started a chess club so he and Brown can play on the road together.
 
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Kliq

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I've watched Seventh play for almost five years now. At one point, for the briefest of moments (literally one Summer), he was a few inches taller than his classmates. But he always played the same way - very fast, oftentimes too fast for his handle, with high-risk/high-reward highlight style plays.

It became clear two years ago that he was going to have an issue. He was just not a point guard. He didn't have the shot to play the two-guard. So he's now at Carolina where, by the end of his career, I expect he will slow down and the game will slow down and he will become a Telfair-lite type of player. He is not an NBA prospect.
I forget why but he popped into my head a few days ago and I thought that so hadn't heard anything about him. I looked him up and was surprised to see him at UNC; I figured he was still in high school. The ranking of prospects before they are in at least the 16-17 range is such a worthless endeavor; for the reasons pointed out above. If you guys haven't read it yet I really recommend the book "Play Their Hearts Out" about Demetrius Walker and the grassroots game of pre-high school recruiting.
 

Koufax

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Tankathon shows the Celtics drafting Josh Jackson if they get the #2 pick, and Jonathan Isaac at #3 or #4. I like the idea of a 6'11" athlete with a .638 true shooting percentage a an 80% rate from the foul line.
 

smastroyin

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They have the Celtics taking Fultz #1, Jackson if he is available, then Isaac. You just happened upon scenarios where Jackson was taken second. About 1/3 of teams they have taking Ball at 2, in which case the C's take Jackson at 3.
 

Statman

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What do the Lakers have that we would even want/need? Julius Randle might help on the boards but he's also 22. The Lakers and Celtics don't really match up tradewise at all.
What about Lou Williams for Zeller and a second rounder?

We need bench scoring in the worst way and Williams is a great off the bench scorer.
 

BigSoxFan

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In my mind, the runaway choice for #1 right now is Fultz. I wouldn't want Jackson if Brown is in the fold and I'm not sure that Ball or anybody else for that matter is worthy of the #1 pick.
Ball's pops says that he's better than Steph Curry right now so...

Fultz is clear #1 for me. After that, I change my mind like every day but Jackson is probably the leader in the 2 spot for me. I don't really worry about roster fit - they can sort that out later.

Ball is tough to read. He is clearly skilled but his athleticism is meh, which concerns me in the half court against NBA athletes. You would need some pretty explosive wing scorers to offset that, which we don't really have.

Smith has worse size than Ball but is more explosive and has that young Baron Davis game. I think he could be a pretty good scoring PG from day 1.

So, if I had to rank it would be:

1. Fultz
2. Jackson
3. Ball
4. Smith

Could potentially swap Ball and Smith but I think my top 2 are pretty set.
 

E5 Yaz

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Ball's pops says that he's better than Steph Curry right now so...
Just an off-shoot question, but ... would the prospect of dealing with Ball's outspoken and intrusive father keep the Celtics from drafting the kid?
 

Cellar-Door

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Just an off-shoot question, but ... would the prospect of dealing with Ball's outspoken and intrusive father keep the Celtics from drafting the kid?
Doubt it, talent wins out. Of course also at some point guys with stage-dad money grifting fathers usually tell them to shut the fuck up or the money train isn't stopping at that station anymore. Ball's dad is gonna milk his kids for every minute of TV and every penny he can, but once the younger kids flame out in college and Lonzo starts having to worry about his brand it'll die down.
 

Big John

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Rumor is that Rob Pelinka is the front runner become Magic's GM and chief capologist. Agents have become GM's in hockey, but as far as I can recall, never in the NBA.
 

nighthob

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Just an off-shoot question, but ... would the prospect of dealing with Ball's outspoken and intrusive father keep the Celtics from drafting the kid?
They'll trade him to whomever's drafting fourth for Josh Jackson and future firsts.
 

finnVT

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In the "2nd round flyer category", Sindarius Thornwell from South Carolina has been having a pretty amazing year, albeit as a senior. He's on pace to put up the first season of 80%+ FT shooting (84%), 40%+ 3p shooting (41%), 5+ rb/game (7.3) and 2+ steals/game (2.2) since Courtney Lee did it in 05-06, and while playing against much better competition. There's probably not a whole lot of room for growth given that he's already 22, but those are some impressive numbers in categories that are at least somewhat translational.
 

DannyDarwinism

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In the "2nd round flyer category", Sindarius Thornwell from South Carolina has been having a pretty amazing year, albeit as a senior. He's on pace to put up the first season of 80%+ FT shooting (84%), 40%+ 3p shooting (41%), 5+ rb/game (7.3) and 2+ steals/game (2.2) since Courtney Lee did it in 05-06, and while playing against much better competition. There's probably not a whole lot of room for growth given that he's already 22, but those are some impressive numbers in categories that are at least somewhat translational.
Only five guys have put up a season of BPM > 16.0 since 2010- Brow, KAT, Oladipo, Valentine and Delon Wright(!). Thornwell is at 16 now. Ethan Happ, currently at 18.3, is the second best since they started counting.
 

chilidawg

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If you're after a big guy, the 10-20 range looks like it has a lot of value. Hartenstein, Allen, Rabb, Bryant, Williams, Patton, Lydon, Happ, Giles, Adebayo all getting mocked in that range. Allen in particular looks to me to be a high upside gamble worth it with a late lottery pick.
 

JCizzle

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With all the talk of FT% being a good predictor of NBA potential, any concern that Fultz is at ~65%?
 

Cellar-Door

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With all the talk of FT% being a good predictor of NBA potential, any concern that Fultz is at ~65%?
It's interesting that he's struggling from the line but shooting well from 3.
I looked for other NBA prospects and draftees who shot 40%+ from 3 and under 70% from the line.Also filtered out guys like Jamison who took 10-20 3s for a whole season.
Jay Williams
Brandon Ingram
Rashad McCants
Brandon Rush
Jason Kapono
Antoine Wright
Vince Carter
Damion James
Markieff Morris

Most of those guys shot well in the league for however long they were in it. (Exceptions are James who basically took no 3s, and Wright who shot 30% on 3s)



Anyone have a good feel for how Fultz and IT would co-exist?
Most people think well on offense, Fultz can play off the ball as can Isaiah, on D.... well Fultz has very good size and physical attributes for defending 2s. So far effort and execution have been decidedly intermittent (in his defense his team is awful and his coach is a buffoon and he's carrying a ridiculous load on offense).
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Some interesting insight on Fultz in this article: http://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/college/pac-12/university-of-washington/article133945999.html. One snippet:

Indeed, that isn’t Fultz’s style. Aside from his talent, there is nothing one-and-done about him. He does not view college basketball as a one-year annoyance. He has never criticized his teammates or his coaches, never turned down an interview request. When he was hurt, he helped rebound for teammates during warmups. When he was held out of practice earlier this season to rest his sore body, he helped hand out water.

Chillious jokes that Fultz is like “an old lady,” reminding his roommates to be home by a decent hour when they go out at night. When the UW women’s team played NCAA tournament games in Maryland last season, Fultz and his mother attended. When the Huskies lost a close game to Arizona on Saturday, Fultz had tears in his eyes during his postgame interview.
 

chilidawg

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Some interesting insight on Fultz in this article: http://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/college/pac-12/university-of-washington/article133945999.html. One snippet:

Indeed, that isn’t Fultz’s style. Aside from his talent, there is nothing one-and-done about him. He does not view college basketball as a one-year annoyance. He has never criticized his teammates or his coaches, never turned down an interview request. When he was hurt, he helped rebound for teammates during warmups. When he was held out of practice earlier this season to rest his sore body, he helped hand out water.

Chillious jokes that Fultz is like “an old lady,” reminding his roommates to be home by a decent hour when they go out at night. When the UW women’s team played NCAA tournament games in Maryland last season, Fultz and his mother attended. When the Huskies lost a close game to Arizona on Saturday, Fultz had tears in his eyes during his postgame interview.
Thanks for that. it's so easy to lose sight of the fact that these young men can have a lot more going on than what you see. I wouldn't have guessed at any of this from his demeanor on the court.
 

joe dokes

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Lonzo Ball just tweaked his knee or something.

Edit: Went to the locker room, but is back on the bench now. Can't be too serious. Might have turned his ankle.

I watched some of the first half just to see Ball. Does Bill Walton usually pay that little attention to the game going on right in front of him?
 

sgfeer

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I watched some of the first half just to see Ball. Does Bill Walton usually pay that little attention to the game going on right in front of him?
To be fair to Bill, he's not sure what planet he's on. His stream of consciousness is a mix of amazing, maddening and scary when doing a game. It must be a handful for the play by play guy
 

ElcaballitoMVP

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I watched some of the first half just to see Ball. Does Bill Walton usually pay that little attention to the game going on right in front of him?
This guy?


Yeah. That's Bill. He just talks. And it usually has very little to do with the game he's supposed to be analyzing.
 

rhopkins2323

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Sorry to come off as a dick lol (it's not my intention) but that is such a puff piece. It's nice he rebounds for teammates and I'm sure he's a great kid, but does his on court demeanor worry anyone? To me this would be a real concern if I had to make this pick. I am starting to get on the Josh Jackson bandwagon as #1 guy.

The Cs could potentially have the number one pick, and if they don't trade it, they have to hit. Do you really want to invest in a kid who seems to lack effort at times? Or are you better off going after a guy like Jackson, who by all accounts, competes his ass off all the time.

Sure Fultz has the numbers and skills worthy of being the best player in the draft, but it would be disappointing getting a guy you have to worry about effort on a nightly basis. For example Rondo, Jeff Green, Glenn Robinson...and countless others. In my experience in playing and coaching basketball, the guys who are reserved and have a reputation for not having a high compete level aren't great guys to have as your lead dog.

Of course I could be over analyzing this, but I'm not the only one that has brought up is demeanor.
 
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joe dokes

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Sorry to come off as a dick lol (it's not my intention) but that is such a puff peace. It's nice he rebounds for teammates and I'm sure he's a great kid, but does his on court demeanor worry anyone? To me this would be a real concern if I had to make this pick. I am starting to get on the Josh Jackson bandwagon as #1 guy.

The Cs could potentially have the number one pick, and if they don't trade it, they have to hit. Do you really want to invest in a kid who seems to lack effort at times? Or are you better off going after a guy like Jackson, who by all accounts, competes his ass off all the time.

Sure Fultz has the numbers and skills worthy of being the best player in the draft, but it would be disappointing getting a guy you have to worry about effort on a nightly basis. For example Rondo, Jeff Green, Glenn Robinson...and countless others. In my experience in playing and coaching basketball, the guys who are reserved and have a reputation for not having a high compete level aren't great guys to have as your lead dog.

Of course I could be over analyzing this, but I'm not the only one that has brought up is demeanor.
What about his on-court "demeanor" has you worried? (I ask not having seen 5 minutes of him play).
 

joe dokes

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Think JD Drew.
I am. That's why i asked.

“I came into this game more excited than it appears Fultz has,” MacLean said during the first half of Washington’s 41-point loss to UCLA.
This is all I needed to see. MacLean went to UCLA had a four hour erection thinking of how UCLA was going to win by 5000 points.


I loved the Walt Frazier and Kawhi Leonard comparisons.
 
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