2017 Michigan Football - I-Rashan-al Exuberance

twibnotes

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It gets real interesting now bc you figure Harbaugh will take a hands on approach to the offense. If he does and things improve, it's obviously a good sign. It's also probably the beginning of the end of the Drevno/Pep era.
 

trotsplits

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Remember at the beginning of the year when everyone said this was a bit of a rebuilding year? How did we go from that to torches and pitchforks? No doubt Harbaugh brings attention to himself and should be scrutinized for the ineffectiveness of the offense this year, but it's silly to place him on the hotseat. It was another weird tough loss. We'll probably have one or two more this year.
 

trotsplits

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Keeping Drev over Fisch not looking so good right now. Although that was possibly not JH's choice.
I always got the impression Fisch really wants to be a HC somewhere and Drevno doesn't. Harbaugh probably wanted some consistency with the youngsters on the roster.
 

Zososoxfan

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Remember at the beginning of the year when everyone said this was a bit of a rebuilding year? How did we go from that to torches and pitchforks? No doubt Harbaugh brings attention to himself and should be scrutinized for the ineffectiveness of the offense this year, but it's silly to place him on the hotseat. It was another weird tough loss. We'll probably have one or two more this year.
I like your enthusiasm, but I think we're looking at 8-4 or 7-5 with @PSU, @Wisco, vs. OSU. Maryland and Minnesota are no guarantees either. With JOK being a RS Senior and Speight's health, have to think we'll see some of Peters this year. This offense is brutal to watch, so I'm ready to try Ruiz, Peters, and whoever else the coaches want to throw out there.
 

twibnotes

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I like your enthusiasm, but I think we're looking at 8-4 or 7-5 with @PSU, @Wisco, vs. OSU. Maryland and Minnesota are no guarantees either. With JOK being a RS Senior and Speight's health, have to think we'll see some of Peters this year. This offense is brutal to watch, so I'm ready to try Ruiz, Peters, and whoever else the coaches want to throw out there.
I think that's true if there is no improvement, but I think Harbaugh is going to be actively involved in making the offense at least competent. The D should keep us in most games.

I do agree that if things go sideways, we could see Peters, and that may be a good thing for the future.
 

trotsplits

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They are one player short on OL - specifically at RT. Ulizio was mercifully pulled from the State game. I'd love to slide Kugler over there and plug supposed freshman stud Ruiz in at center. That would obviously involve torching his redshirt - which doesn't happen in the B1G season.
 

mauf

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This is kind of funny to read this. I don't like Michigan but like Harbaugh.


Edit: He already has two ten win seasons; tough crowd.
I’m with you. M was in the toilet (by its standards) when Harbaugh took over, and given the woes of the late-Hoke era, the talent situation was always going to get worse before it got better — particularly on the line, where recruiting a couple young phenoms won’t cover for a lack of capable, physically mature 22-23 year olds. The year 3 swoon after better-than-expected results in years 1 and 2 is something we could have foreseen when Harbaugh first took the job.

Maybe Harbaugh won’t live up to expectations in the long run, but we’re 2-3 years from being able to make even a preliminary assessment of that.
 

Zososoxfan

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They are one player short on OL - specifically at RT. Ulizio was mercifully pulled from the State game. I'd love to slide Kugler over there and plug supposed freshman stud Ruiz in at center. That would obviously involve torching his redshirt - which doesn't happen in the B1G season.
Slight modification--Kugler to LG, Bredeson to RT, Ruiz to C. Same idea though.
 

Zososoxfan

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I’m with you. M was in the toilet (by its standards) when Harbaugh took over, and given the woes of the late-Hoke era, the talent situation was always going to get worse before it got better — particularly on the line, where recruiting a couple young phenoms won’t cover for a lack of capable, physically mature 22-23 year olds. The year 3 swoon after better-than-expected results in years 1 and 2 is something we could have foreseen when Harbaugh first took the job.

Maybe Harbaugh won’t live up to expectations in the long run, but we’re 2-3 years from being able to make even a preliminary assessment of that.
Agreed. JH is getting the PROGRAM back on track and had 2 very successful seasons in year 1 and 2. The story this year is still being written. However, I feel like they did have several recruiting whiffs on OL in the past couple of years that have hurt them this season. Nevertheless, I will judge JH more on the next two years than this one.
 

Average Reds

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While I am encouraged by the progress of the running game, I am appalled by the ineptness of O'Korn and the passing game in general.

Going to be at the game this week at PSU. Hopefully the defense steps up and keeps them close, but I don't have a comfortable feeling heading into the weekend.
 

SoxJox

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Hey Reds, when you're there, don't pass up the opportunity to visit the LT Michael Murphy Memorial and Veterans Plaza on campus. He attended Penn Sate and was the leader of the 4-man SEAL team mission upon which the the movie Lone Survivor was based. He was awarded the Medal of Honor for his actions. It's at the center of campus, right between Old Main and the HUB (Hetzel Union Building) - on the south side of Pollock Road.



Edit: Also, could I ask you to swing by The College Diner and send me two boxes of sticky buns (just kidding).
 
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Average Reds

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I will visit the memorial. I will go to The College Diner and try the sticky buns. I will not mail any boxes of the sticky buns.

However, I may take several boxes with me to Beaver Stadium and toss them from the upper sections of the north end zone towards the field of play when I become frustrated at the action and/or annoyed at the behavior of the refugees from a casting call for "Groundhog Day 2" who are surrounding me.
 

trotsplits

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I had good experiences both times I visited PSU. But we aren't as cute and cuddly to them now. Probably the 9 game streak and past few years.
 

twibnotes

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Peters looked very good yesterday. Suddenly this team is interesting again.

Rumors I’ve heard indicate that McCaffery, more than Peters, looks like the future. We’ll see...
 

terrynever

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Peters looked very good yesterday. Suddenly this team is interesting again.

Rumors I’ve heard indicate that McCaffery, more than Peters, looks like the future. We’ll see...
Rooting for Michigan next month against tOSU! It's doable, with a great defensive effort, mistake-free offense and special teams.
 

Zososoxfan

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Really nice win yesterday. The run game was powerful. Guys really just seemed to know who to block and the RBs were seeing the game well and breaking runs left and right. BP didn't have to do much but is enough of a threat to keep the D honest (at least in this game). I think Ruiz played OG and Onwenu sat. There was one play I think JBB had a chance to lead block a big gainer and whiffed, but otherwise he was solid. The D line played an outstanding game and stuffed all kind of runs. Minny didn't try to pass much. Hudson played a great game. Very encouraging win.
 

Zososoxfan

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How's everyone feeling about Wisco? I was irrationally confident for the PSU game and that bit me in the ass something awful. However, I still feel prettay prettay prettay good about this game. Our run game should be able to keep pace with them and Peters has shown he can do the little required of him to keep a defense honest. If the offense is going to succeed, I think it's because our TE/FB will catch a bunch of passes and the playcalling and game plan set them up to succeed. On defense, I have to think that Wisco has been playing a bit of rope and dope because other than Iowa, they have played no one good. So, if they break out a bunch of stuff not on tape a la PSU, we will be in trouble. I also think that Horny-Brook is going to continue his rampant mistake making and keep this game competitive even if it shouldn't be. I see this game finishing 20-16 in favor of Wisco, but a few plays here and there changing the outcome pretty easily.
 

OnWisc

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I agree with you on Hornibrook, unfortunately. If he continues to be as careless with the ball as he's become over the course of the season, eventually it is going to cost us. He got away with two pick-sixes against Iowa only because the defense utterly locked down the Hawkeye offense.

Big plays in this one are what worry me. If the Wisconsin defense doesn't give up any long TDs and the offense protects the ball, I think Wisconsin grinds out a reasonably comfortable win. If Michigan puts points on the board as a result of some big momentum swinging plays, our luck may run out.
 

Zososoxfan

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I agree with you on Hornibrook, unfortunately. If he continues to be as careless with the ball as he's become over the course of the season, eventually it is going to cost us. He got away with two pick-sixes against Iowa only because the defense utterly locked down the Hawkeye offense.

Big plays in this one are what worry me. If the Wisconsin defense doesn't give up any long TDs and the offense protects the ball, I think Wisconsin grinds out a reasonably comfortable win. If Michigan puts points on the board as a result of some big momentum swinging plays, our luck may run out.
Here's the thing - UM has a pretty bad downfield passing game, but we are still breaking big plays due to our run game. Higdon and Evans have shown big play ability if they can get to the second level. UW has the best LBs of any team UM has played, so I don't expect those same homeruns to land. Our TEs (namely Gentry) have shown an ability to make some tough catches and pickup YAC, which ultimately will determine the UM offense vs. UW defense matchup. If UM breaks a couple of runs and softens up the middle zones, I could see UM putting up 23-24 points which I think wins it. More likely though, UM will have 150-170 yards on the ground on 30-35 carries which won't get it done.
 

Zososoxfan

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Really too bad that UM had to go down to the third stringer JOK for the two big games at the end of the season. Both felt very winnable, but JOK is really just not a FBS-quality QB. This team returns a ton of starters on both sides of the ball, is actively pursuing some high quality transfers, and has a solid recruiting class already lined up and expected to improve before signing day. But, those discussions can wait for next year's thread.

UM is lined up to play South Carolina in the Outback Bowl. As a Tampa resident, I will almost certainly be there. There are tons of tickets available and if you're willing to wait, I bet good tickets at good prices ($50-$75) will be attainable the week and days leading up to the game. If anyone plans to come down or has questions, let me know.
 

Dick Pole Upside

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Shea Patterson the first of the Rebel mercs to transfer to Michigan.

Should make for some interesting QB competition. If Patterson is immediately available (he must file a waiver), then it would not surprise me to see Peters transfer out himself. Rumors were that Peters was considering leaving earlier in the year when he was bypassed for JOK.
 

Zososoxfan

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Shea Patterson the first of the Rebel mercs to transfer to Michigan.

Should make for some interesting QB competition. If Patterson is immediately available (he must file a waiver), then it would not surprise me to see Peters transfer out himself. Rumors were that Peters was considering leaving earlier in the year when he was bypassed for JOK.
My understanding of the Peters situation was that it was unsubstantiated rumors and that lots of people were pissed at the report (by Spath?) and there was no truth to it. Also, I expect Peters will still be the starter next season. Patterson is a nice bullet in the chamber, but there's no guarantee he will get real PT here. I've also read that he's not in the Harbaugh QB mold in that he's a smaller guy with scrambling ability who did not take lots of snap under center.
 

wonderland

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Patterson was a top recruit and is already a proven player. This is not a case of a player beaten out by somebody better and transfers. If he’s eligible next year I would guess he’s the starter.
 

Zososoxfan

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He WAS a top recruit, but he was also an average QB last year after a full year of starts. I'm not saying there's no chance he's the starter, but it's not a done deal that he's the starter either. Harbaugh has even said that there was no plan to entertain Patterson as an option until Speight transferred. Take all that into account plus the fact that Peters has a 2-year headstart in the program and looked good in his limited time and I think it's a legit competition.
 

trotsplits

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Another spring/fall camp for Peters with QB1 reps will make it hard for Patterson win the job by the ND game. I think the light went on for Peters in the Wisconsin game.
 
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I'm surprised this is even a conversation. The only question should be if Patterson is available next year or not (I think he will be through a waiver). If he is then he's the starter and the best QB Harbaugh has had to work with in college. Peters development is attributable to Harbaugh's coaching. Patterson is already there with clearly superior tools. He would thrive there.
 

bowiac

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I'd bet on Peters personally. Extra time in the system is going to overwhelm any talent advantage Patterson has.
 

twibnotes

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These are sad, pathetic times. At least at the end of the Hoke debacle, we had hope that a new coach would save the day.

I was a Harbaugh believer, but this year was bad enough to raise major, major question marks, number one being whether Harbaugh can adjust and adopt a real college offense instead of the horse shit overly complex tire fire of an offense he has stubbornly stuck to.
 

berniecarbo1

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8-5. Winless against tOSU. There is no way anyone thought the program would be at this level at this point of the Harbaugh regime. He has stabilized it but just look at the teams in the CFB. This program is nowhere near that or close to that of the first 2 teams out.

I guess my question is, if the HC was Jim Smith and not Jim Harbaugh, would he be on his way out at this point?
 
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I’m actually shocked GA defense looks this poor. A lot of bad tackling, guys out of position. Credit OK which looks tremendous but I thought GA would be a little more stout on defense.

Edit - I’m an idiot and posted this in absolutely the wrong thread.
 

twibnotes

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I’m actually shocked GA defense looks this poor. A lot of bad tackling, guys out of position. Credit OK which looks tremendous but I thought GA would be a little more stout on defense.

Edit - I’m an idiot and posted this in absolutely the wrong thread.

If you’re talking about poor football, you’re in the right thread
 

Zososoxfan

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If you’re talking about poor football, you’re in the right thread
Ouch, but true. I agree that anyone who says this is where we expected to be in year 3 of JH is lying to themselves. Even if the offensive coaching was the same next year, I'd expect to see an improvement with a young offense getting to grow into the system a bit more. But, it looks like Harbaugh may be trying to speed up the improvement even more by bringing in Greg Roman and other O coaches, as Frey looks ready to jump for Tally, and Drevno and Pep not standing on solid ground. Roman presumably indicates a return to the pistol offense of Kaepernick vintage and the QB and WR pieces fit.
 

terrynever

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These are sad, pathetic times. At least at the end of the Hoke debacle, we had hope that a new coach would save the day.

I was a Harbaugh believer, but this year was bad enough to raise major, major question marks, number one being whether Harbaugh can adjust and adopt a real college offense instead of the horse shit overly complex tire fire of an offense he has stubbornly stuck to.
So true. Franklin was sinking at Penn State after two years. Then he went out and hired Joe Moorhead from Fordham, of all places. Moorhead put in his up-tempo offense that perfectly fit an unheralded kid named Trace McSorley.
Harbaugh needs to do something similar. Maybe, as Z suggested above, Roman installs some form of pistol and uses an athletic QB to make everyone around him better, including the O-Line.
 

SoxJox

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The challenge, though, is that you'll likely need more than 1 athletic QB, because in Penn State's offense, the QB is exposed a lot to open field hits, which can do serious damage. McSorley, as tough as he is, has been very fortunate. But also fortunate for Penn State is that they have Tommy Stevens as a backup, and reports were that last year he nearly won the starting job, and again came close to it this year - even after McSorley's great 2016 season. From the brief appearances he was inserted into the offense, it's clear he's big and athletic. Had McSorley gone down, no one can say with certainty what the overall effect might have been, but most people with knowledge of the situation say...not much. Stevens is quite capable and is actually probably the better player based on typical QB-like qualities. He graduates this Spring after 3 years and has 2 more years of eligibility. There is speculation that he may transfer (but, IIRC, would lose one of those years because the graduate transfer rule permits only one year at a different institution to enroll in graduate studies.
 
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snowmanny

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I didn't realize that making offers to middle schoolers was now routine procedure.


Michigan football coach Jim Harbaugh has offered a scholarship to a seventh-grade quarterback.

Dante Jacob Moore, a 13-year-old who will enter eighth grade in the fall at A.G.B.U. Alex & Marie Manoogian School, a charter program in Michigan, received the offer Monday after participating at Michigan’s football camp in Ann Arbor, according to Moore's father, Otha Sr.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaafb/jim-harbaugh-michigan-football-offer-scholarship-to-7th-grade-quarterback/ar-AAyUpHc?li=BBnb7Kz

Last season, Mike Willey entrusted the middle of his defense at Cambridge (Mass.) Buckingham, Browne & Nichols High School defense to Tyler Martin.
The middle linebacker looked the part at 6-foot-3 and 227 pounds.
Nothing seems unusual until you find out that Martin is in the eighth grade, projected for the college recruiting class of 2022.
He already caught the attention of Michigan defensive coordinator Don Brown and last week the Wolverines officially offered a scholarship to Martin, one of what should be many if he stays healthy and productive.
https://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/university-michigan/wolverines/2018/05/29/michigan-wolverines-football-tyler-martin-eighth-grader-offer/651032002/
 

trotsplits

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2019 class is currently ranked #5 nationally. All of this in spite of Harbaugh's 1) apparent inability to coach and 2) imminent departure to greener pastures. ;)