2017 Jimmy G: The Dilemma

Do we keep JG as the successor?

  • Yes, Lifes unsure and Brady might actually be mortal and JG is showing too much promise

    Votes: 90 34.9%
  • We keep him for the life of his contract, If it works out it works out.

    Votes: 55 21.3%
  • Instead we trade JG for a "Tier 1" asset this off season

    Votes: 72 27.9%
  • Instead we trade JG for a "Tier 2" asset this off season

    Votes: 7 2.7%
  • Instead we trade JG for a "Tier 3" asset this off season

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Instead we trade JG for a "Tier 1+" asset this off season

    Votes: 27 10.5%
  • Instead we trade JG for a "Tier 2+" asset this off season

    Votes: 7 2.7%
  • Instead we trade JG for a "Tier 3+" asset this off season

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    258

wilked

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Right.

I assume at least 90% of reported 'hacks' are simply bad judgment on the individual
 

simplyeric

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Oh I thought he was just saying how his time in Boston has made him so full of greatness.

'Hack' seems unlikely. Who's going to put the effort out to hack a guy to write that?

I think the STFU scenario is more likely.

Waiting with baited* breath to hear what the return is.

*I eat worms. Hacked!
 

pappymojo

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Yeah, Belichick already got his ultimate fuck-you as a coach in to Goodell by winning the super bowl, but that would certainly add the ultimate F-you as a GM. I won the super bowl and now have the first overall pick in the draft, everybody sucks but me, rename it the National Belichick League all of you bitches.

Also, I'm been drinking, which makes the last few pages of this thread rather fun.
I continued to read this post in Belichick's voice through the 'I'm been drinking' sentence and enjoyed it very muchly.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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Does not sound like a hack but we have officially reached the Clown Show phase of the offseason.
Of course it isn't a hack. Who the fuck has the ability to hack passwords, and does it to hack a second string QB and post 1 single "thank you, goodbye" message?

The only way it wasn't JG was if one of his buddies got a hold of his phone and wanted to get a good chuckle.
 

bsj

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It it is a hack, error, or hoax, why is it still up?

Suspect it was done intentionally to create more momentum on the side of "trade" to make it harder, theoretically, not to. I think it needed to stay up long enough for everyone to see it this morning. It will probably come down in the next hour, but for it to have its intended impact, people needed to see it in the morning.
 

Dan Murfman

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Schefter was on ESPN. this morning and said he was told by someone in the Pats organization that they wouldn't trade Jimmy G for 4 first round picks.
 

MillarTime

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Interesting because it's Schefter, but can;t help but think he being used to indirectly negotiate. Four first rounders? C'mon.
 

heavyde050

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I know BB has brought an unbelievable amount of success to the Patriots, but passing on multiple first round picks to keep Jimmy while he still has Brady seems curious.
Heck if he gets lucky he could trade one of those picks into the future and draft Sam Darnold from USC.
 

DJnVa

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I know BB has brought an unbelievable amount of success to the Patriots, but passing on multiple first round picks to keep Jimmy while he still has Brady seems curious.
Heck if he gets lucky he could trade one of those picks into the future and draft Sam Darnold from USC.
Well, he hasn't actually passed on multiple picks.
 

Byrdbrain

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Interesting because it's Schefter, but can;t help but think he being used to indirectly negotiate. Four first rounders? C'mon.
I'm pretty sure that is what would be called hyperbole.
Obviously they aren't being offered that so it doesn't matter.

Edit:He essentially said as much when he was on EEI. His point, which he was very strong on, was that Jimmy won't be traded.
 

cshea

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Has Schefter ever been this firm on anything? Every time the speculation ratchets up, he doubles down on the Pats keeping Garoppolo. Not even the slightest hedge.
 

Sportsbstn

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Interesting because it's Schefter, but can;t help but think he being used to indirectly negotiate. Four first rounders? C'mon.
Agreed. 4 first rounders? Just stop Schefter, your getting used. Even if hyperbole, sounds like he is a mouthpiece at this point
 

mauf

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I purposely tuned out the media storm around DFG. What was Schefter's role in that? Just wondering if BB might be willing to burn a bridge, or even be messing with him for sport.

Like @cshea said, the lack of equivocation from Schefter is notable, and I assume it reflects a similar lack of equivocation by well-placed sources.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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I purposely tuned out the media storm around DFG. What was Schefter's role in that? Just wondering if BB might be willing to burn a bridge, or even be messing with him for sport.

Like @cshea said, the lack of equivocation from Schefter is notable, and I assume it reflects a similar lack of equivocation by well-placed sources.
The only thing I remember specifically was him saying during the investigation that the league was having a hard time finding anyone to pin anything on.
 

Koufax

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This question about Shefter caused me to go back and listen to his interview in April 2016 in which he said that Tom Brady is absolutely not going to accept the ruling of the Court of Appeals and would fight it forever. So much for his absolute knowledge.
 

Red Averages

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Shefter joining Mike and Mike in a few minutes.
"It's not happening. Next Topic."

"They aren't trading him."

"Situations do change over time, I'm just telling you, Jimmy Garoppolo will be on the roster."

"It's not happening"
 

KingChre

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Jul 31, 2009
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Has he mentioned how the Patriots plan on keeping Garoppolo? Has he suggested that trading Brady or franchising Jimmy are real possibilities? I do not, but am curious if he does.

Aside from those two possibilities, how in the hell does he think this is going to work? The Patriots are going to turn down a 1st round pick in a loaded draft plus God knows what else, in order to keep Garoppolo as Brady insurance for one year? That doesn't make sense to me.

Also his analogy that a Brady injury after a Jimmy trade would lead to the Patriots becoming the Cleveland Browns is not a good one. In fact its laughably bad.

I believe he is getting real information from real sources, but he can't be so naive as to think that it's impossible this is just posturing on the Patriots end? I like Adam, and I will continue to follow him as I think he's one of the more reliable and reputable NFL reporters out there, but his stance on this is a confusing one for me.
 

Mooch

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Schefter's insistence on this point, to such an angry degree, suggests that he might have some insider knowledge about Brady's future after the 2017 season. I have this hunch that Brady may have told the Pats that if they win the Super Bowl, he will hang 'em up. If that's the case, the Patriots would certainly want to hang on to Garoppolo this season, just in case they win it all.
 

DJnVa

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"It's not happening. Next Topic."

"They aren't trading him."

"Situations do change over time, I'm just telling you, Jimmy Garoppolo will be on the roster."

"It's not happening"

So, with the Patriots and/or Shefter this adamant about it, there's a few thoughts I have:

1--The Patriots simply haven't had an asset like this, so maybe there's nothing weird going on. We've never heard these type of things regarding a potential trade, but there's never been a situation like this
2--Do they know something about Brady's plans?
3--Are they kicking it down the road til next year and reassessing?
 

Curt S Loew

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Also his analogy that a Brady injury after a Jimmy trade would lead to the Patriots becoming the Cleveland Browns is not a good one. In fact its laughably bad.
Yeah, that one had me spill my coffee a bit on the way into work. Shefter is reeeeal defensive on this issue. So much so, he doesn't make much sense at times. Which is unusual for him.
 

KingChre

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Schefter's insistence on this point, to such an angry degree, suggests that he might have some insider knowledge about Brady's future after the 2017 season. I have this hunch that Brady may have told the Pats that if they win the Super Bowl, he will hang 'em up. If that's the case, the Patriots would certainly want to hang on to Garoppolo this season, just in case they win it all.
This might be the only reason I could believe that explains his odd take on the whole situation. If he is sitting on this information, I am curious why it isn't out there at least vaguely. Something like...

"They aren't trading him because they believe he is a strong candidate to be THEIR quarterback of the future, and that future may be sooner than any of us realize"
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Assume for a second that Schefter's information is good and that the Patriots just won't trade JG unless offered something ludicrous, like four firsts. Does that suggest Brady might have told the team that he is seriously considering retiring after next year (or two years at most)? I know Brady said otherwise right after the Super Bowl and lives for football. But he is soon to be 40, getting the fifth ring might have changed his feelings somewhat, Giselle apparently asked him to retire, spending more time with his kids is probably a big draw, etc. I don't think its implausible in the abstract.

I am a believer in the idea that the Pats value JG much more than many have assumed and that it would take a lot to trade him. But simply refusing to trade JG almost no matter what is offered doesn't make much sense if you believe Brady wants to play 3-5 more years.

Of course, it could just be posturing. But Schefter is pretty adamant.

Edit: Didn't see posts from Mooch and King Chre roughly on same subject. I doubt Schefter has inside info on Brady. But Jonathan Kraft would have that info if it existed and he could be the one telling Schefter they won't trade JG.
 

dcdrew10

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Assume for a second that Schefter's information is good and that the Patriots just won't trade JG unless offered something ludicrous, like four firsts. Does that suggest Brady might have told the team that he is seriously considering retiring after next year (or two years at most)? I know Brady said otherwise right after the Super Bowl and lives for football. But he is soon to be 40, getting the fifth ring might have changed his feelings somewhat, Giselle apparently asked him to retire, spending more time with his kids is probably a big draw, etc. I don't think its implausible in the abstract.

I am a believer in the idea that the Pats value JG much more than many have assumed and that it would take a lot to trade him. But simply refusing to trade JG almost no matter what is offered doesn't make much sense if you believe Brady wants to play 3-5 more years.

Of course, it could just be posturing. But Schefter is pretty adamant.
I could see this angle being true. You also have to wonder what his mother's health factors into his thinking about spending more time with his family. He's doesn't need the money and if half of what is said about his training/game prep/sleep habits/etc is true he must not have much time for life outside of football. I love that and that's a big part of why he has 5 rings, but that's not conducive to visiting a sick mom.
 

Byrdbrain

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This might be the only reason I could believe that explains his odd take on the whole situation. If he is sitting on this information, I am curious why it isn't out there at least vaguely. Something like...

"They aren't trading him because they believe he is a strong candidate to be THEIR quarterback of the future, and that future may be sooner than any of us realize"
The guys on EEI pushed him on this exact point and he stated he has no idea about anything past this year but he just knows Jimmy will not be traded.
As others have stated it is really odd, he is so sure of this and gets really defensive when pushed on why he is so sure.
 

Hoodie Sleeves

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Assume for a second that Schefter's information is good and that the Patriots just won't trade JG unless offered something ludicrous, like four firsts. Does that suggest Brady might have told the team that he is seriously considering retiring after next year (or two years at most)? I know Brady said otherwise right after the Super Bowl and lives for football. But he is soon to be 40, getting the fifth ring might have changed his feelings somewhat, Giselle apparently asked him to retire, spending more time with his kids is probably a big draw, etc. I don't think its implausible in the abstract..
It could mean that, or it could mean that BB is a good GM and doesn't think the chance of Brady still being an elite quarterback in 2 years is very high.

If they're refusing multiple first round picks, this is not about insurance. It's about Garappalo being the future of the franchise.
 

Koufax

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Maybe the plan is to get rid of Brady after 1 or 2 years since they have a successor in place who they can ride for 10 years or more. Maybe the idea is that Brady is more motivated when there's a challenger in the camp. Grasping at straws here because this makes no sense to me.
 

Dr. Gonzo

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The picture becomes clearer if Brady signs the extension he was reported to be signing. If Brady signs that, the Jimmy window is closed in terms of him being a starter here. Belichick more than likley values the insurance he provides in 2017 in event of injury and is more than willing to franchise him after 2017 and then trade him. It also gives Jacoby another year in the system but not as the #2.
 

heavyde050

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It could mean that, or it could mean that BB is a good GM and doesn't think the chance of Brady still being an elite quarterback in 2 years is very high.

If they're refusing multiple first round picks, this is not about insurance. It's about Garappalo being the future of the franchise.
Or it could be that BB is a good GM that lucked into the greatest QB of all time that has routinely taken less $ than he could have to help BB build his team.
I think BB is a good GM, but he is one of the best coaches ever.
His coaching and TB have made his GM job easier.
I still don't see it with Jimmy (probably blinded by my love for TB12 as this team's QB). He will be a good starting QB in the NFL, but I don't see him as top 5 in the league.
I am not saying trade him for a third round pick just to cash in, but if any first round pick gets offered PLUS another high pick this year or next, I don't see how BB doesn't take it.
 

heavyde050

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Maybe the plan is to get rid of Brady after 1 or 2 years since they have a successor in place who they can ride for 10 years or more. Maybe the idea is that Brady is more motivated when there's a challenger in the camp. Grasping at straws here because this makes no sense to me.
This makes some sense.
 

Hoodie Sleeves

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Or it could be that BB is a good GM that lucked into the greatest QB of all time that has routinely taken less $ than he could have to help BB build his team.
I think BB is a good GM, but he is one of the best coaches ever.
His coaching and TB have made his GM job easier.
I still don't see it with Jimmy (probably blinded by my love for TB12 as this team's QB). He will be a good starting QB in the NFL, but I don't see him as top 5 in the league.
I am not saying trade him for a third round pick just to cash in, but if any first round pick gets offered PLUS another high pick this year or next, I don't see how BB doesn't take it.
Curious why you don't think JG can be a top 5 in the league?

We're talking small samples sizes here, but his play this year was absolutely elite.
 

pedroia'sboys

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I recall another reporter - I think it was Bedard? - stating on the radio that Schefter's Patriots source is likely Jonathan Kraft.
If there was any time to burn a bridge it would be now. I think they're using Schefter, reports keep coming out with the price only increasing. There seems to be one team left, the Patriots are building as much leverage as they can.Would the Patriots say never on anything. It's comical, browns trade for a two and Schefter gets a text hours later " dont they get it were never trading him!!"
 

Hoodie Sleeves

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If there was any time to burn a bridge it would be now. I think they're using Schefter, reports keep coming out with the price only increasing. There seems to be one team left, the Patriots are building as much leverage as they can.Would the Patriots say never on anything. It's comical, browns trade for a two and Schefter gets a text hours later " dont they get it were never trading him!!"
Not coincidentally, this is also exactly the same behavior you'd see if they actually weren't planning on trading him.

Reading anything from this is projection.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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The picture becomes clearer if Brady signs the extension he was reported to be signing. If Brady signs that, the Jimmy window is closed in terms of him being a starter here. Belichick more than likley values the insurance he provides in 2017 in event of injury and is more than willing to franchise him after 2017 and then trade him. It also gives Jacoby another year in the system but not as the #2.
I know it was floating around but that extension story has never made any sense to me whatsoever. With three years left on his deal, why extend a QB into his age 43-45 seasons? There is no real salary cap rationale, at least right now.
 

tims4wins

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Brady obviously said, publicly, that 2017 will not be his last year. But part of me wonders if he actually is planning on retiring after 2017, but doesn't want the accompanying fire storm / victory lap that Manning and Papi went through.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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This question about Shefter caused me to go back and listen to his interview in April 2016 in which he said that Tom Brady is absolutely not going to accept the ruling of the Court of Appeals and would fight it forever. So much for his absolute knowledge.
Hard to count it against him. I don't think anyone was able to predict the health concerns Brady's mother was going to be going through.

I know i'm in the minority here, but...I believe Schefter. Think about it from the Patriots (and BB's) perspective. For 15 plus years, they've trotted out a top tier QB (lets not say hes the greatest of all time...he wasn't the GOAT for the first 10-12 years of his career). And for 15 years, they've had backups come through the system that BB knew weren't going to be able to take the torch from Brady. Cassel, Hoyer, O'Connell, Mallett...at one point, every one of those guys got the Montana/Young treatment. Some more then others, and all for varying reasons (raw potential, understudy, smart, practice hero). BB had no qualms with sending each one packing, again, for varying reasons.

Brady's age is the ever-looming sword of Damocles to this organization. And to BB. Want to turn a perennial contender into an also ran? Have a mediocre QB.

Now, when Tom Brady is nearly 40 years old and its most pressing to have an heir waiting in the wings, the Patriots actually might have one. This isn't about 6 very good quarters of football. This is about the Patriots being able to teach, groom, watch, and analyze a player for 3 years, culminating in 6 very good quarters of football. If those 6 quarters validate what the Patriots have seen over the last 3 years, and the Patriots think JG can take the keys from Brady when he retires, then the team is fucking nuts to trade him.

(Hot take alert).Yes, even for 4 first round picks. The draft is a crap shoot. Lets pretend they get really, really lucky with their picks. Lets say they get 1 All-Pro, 1 pro-bowler, and 2 very serviceable starters. Put that haul on a team with a mediocre QB, and you still have a mediocre team.

Again, all of this comes down to what the Patriots think JG is. But if there is a group of people anywhere that have an idea as to what his ceiling could be, it's the people saying, "We aren't fucking trading this guy".
 

tims4wins

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I know it was floating around but that extension story has never made any sense to me whatsoever. With three years left on his deal, why extend a QB into his age 43-45 seasons? There is no real salary cap rationale, at least right now.
What it if was a way to set him up for a payday that gives him a nice bonus but doesn't penalize the team cap-wise if he retires after 2017? Is that possible?
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Hard to count it against him. I don't think anyone was able to predict the health concerns Brady's mother was going to be going through.

I know i'm in the minority here, but...I believe Schefter. Think about it from the Patriots (and BB's) perspective. For 15 plus years, they've trotted out the greatest QB of all time. And for 15 years, they've had backups come through the system that BB knew weren't going to be able to take the torch from Brady. Cassel, Hoyer, O'Connell, Mallett...at one point, every one of those guys got the Montana/Young treatment. Some more then others, and all for varying reasons (raw potential, understudy, smart, practice hero). BB had no qualms with sending each one packing, again, for varying reasons.

Brady's age is the ever-looming sword of Damocles to this organization. And to BB. Want to turn a perennial contender into an also ran? Have a mediocre QB.

Now, when Tom Brady is nearly 40 years old and its most pressing to have an heir waiting in the wings, the Patriots actually might have one. This isn't about 6 very good quarters of football. This is about the Patriots being able to teach, groom, watch, and analyze a player for 3 years, culminating in 6 very good quarters of football. If those 6 quarters validate what the Patriots have seen over the last 3 years, and the Patriots think JG can take the keys from Brady when he retires, then the team is fucking nuts to trade him.

(Hot take alert).Yes, even for 4 first round picks. The draft is a crap shoot. Lets pretend they get really, really lucky with their picks. Lets say they get 1 All-Pro, 1 pro-bowler, and 2 very serviceable starters. Put that haul on a team with a mediocre QB, and you still have a mediocre team.

Again, all of this comes down to what the Patriots think JG is. But if there is a group of people anywhere that have an idea as to what his ceiling could be, it's the people saying "We aren't fucking trading this guy".
Was just going to post a shorter version of this, even down to the Backups of Christmas Past. I'm surprised people are so surprised. There's basically no ceiling on the trade return for a top 10 quarterback. If that's what they think of Garoppolo, Schefter's certainty makes pretty clear sense to me.
 

grimshaw

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If there is any chance Schefter is right, is there a chance that Brissett is the guy that is moved? Curious what his value would be compared to JG - but I would assume less than the 12th overall and maybe 2 2nds.
 

Mooch

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Brady obviously said, publicly, that 2017 will not be his last year. But part of me wonders if he actually is planning on retiring after 2017, but doesn't want the accompanying fire storm / victory lap that Manning and Papi went through.
Plus, if the team knows that 2017 is Brady's last year, there could be some competitive advantage to keeping that quiet (free agency, draft, etc...)
 

gammoseditor

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Hard to count it against him. I don't think anyone was able to predict the health concerns Brady's mother was going to be going through.

I know i'm in the minority here, but...I believe Schefter. Think about it from the Patriots (and BB's) perspective. For 15 plus years, they've trotted out a top tier QB (lets not say hes the greatest of all time...he wasn't the GOAT for the first 10-12 years of his career). And for 15 years, they've had backups come through the system that BB knew weren't going to be able to take the torch from Brady. Cassel, Hoyer, O'Connell, Mallett...at one point, every one of those guys got the Montana/Young treatment. Some more then others, and all for varying reasons (raw potential, understudy, smart, practice hero). BB had no qualms with sending each one packing, again, for varying reasons.

Brady's age is the ever-looming sword of Damocles to this organization. And to BB. Want to turn a perennial contender into an also ran? Have a mediocre QB.

Now, when Tom Brady is nearly 40 years old and its most pressing to have an heir waiting in the wings, the Patriots actually might have one. This isn't about 6 very good quarters of football. This is about the Patriots being able to teach, groom, watch, and analyze a player for 3 years, culminating in 6 very good quarters of football. If those 6 quarters validate what the Patriots have seen over the last 3 years, and the Patriots think JG can take the keys from Brady when he retires, then the team is fucking nuts to trade him.

(Hot take alert).Yes, even for 4 first round picks. The draft is a crap shoot. Lets pretend they get really, really lucky with their picks. Lets say they get 1 All-Pro, 1 pro-bowler, and 2 very serviceable starters. Put that haul on a team with a mediocre QB, and you still have a mediocre team.

Again, all of this comes down to what the Patriots think JG is. But if there is a group of people anywhere that have an idea as to what his ceiling could be, it's the people saying, "We aren't fucking trading this guy".
I think you argued last year that the Patriots should extend JG and I thought it was nuts at the time. There are a lot of signals from the Patriots that you might be right on this. My only question is, how do you see this working in 2018? Do you think it's realistic that JG signs an extension and Brady is still on the team. Do they franchise him and pay over $20 million for a backup? The 2018 plan makes no sense to me. You don't seem to be arguing that they will move on from Brady.