2017 College Football Game Thread - Week 14

Fred in Lynn

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 3, 2013
4,905
Not Lynn (or Ocean Side)
In reading some of the anti-playoff responses, I’m inspired and think the FBS should consider having Paula Abdul, Randy Jackson, and Simon Cowell select the finalists...

The rest of the competitive sports world seems capable of establishing systems that determine a champion a method than the whims of a panel. The reason this is accepted in regard to one division of college football is a mystery.
 

Fred in Lynn

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 3, 2013
4,905
Not Lynn (or Ocean Side)
Yeah, I have always favored the eight game playoff but now I'm quite unconvinced. The fact that we are torn between who is 4 and who is 5 doesn't make me think they should go to eight; this year there are exactly three teams that deserve to be in the playoff and the fourth team is going to be there as a default. I wish there was a way to leave out both Ohio State and Alabama.
To quote William Munny, “deserves got nothing to do with it,” or at least it shouldn’t be something determined by people voting during a season. There’s something seriously flawed with arbitrarily deciding what factors matters and which do not in the middle of a season and then whimsically promoting or excluding teams based on those factors. It’s not as though there’s not a reasonable option. There’s just little will to implement it coupled with the tacit support of too many fans and journalists.

I believe the argument for a larger 8 has more to do with the existence of 5 major conferences than it does the desire for three rounds of playoff games. Given the option between including and excluding a Power 5 conference champ, non-Power 5 champ, or worthy at-large team, I’d take the former.
 

The Needler

New Member
Dec 7, 2016
1,803
In reading some of the anti-playoff responses, I’m inspired and think the FBS should consider having Paula Abdul, Randy Jackson, and Simon Cowell select the finalists...

The rest of the competitive sports world seems capable of establishing systems that determine a champion a method than the whims of a panel. The reason this is accepted in regard to one division of college football is a mystery.
What do you mean one division of college football? There's a selection committee for the FCS playoffs as well. And the basketball tournament. And the College World Series. And ice hockey. Et cetera, et cetera.
 

berniecarbo1

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2008
1,518
Los Angeles, CA
As many have stated on this thread, close to 80% of the FBS schools know going in to the season each year there is 0 chance they will be in the playoffs, as it is currently constructed. What makes hoops so great is the George Masons of the world start the year with a chance, albeit tiny, but a chance they could get to the tourney and make a run.

I am all for an 8 team playoff. Like hoops the tourney would be slanted to the big boys but also like hoops if you go to 8 everyone has a chance. And that’s all everyone should be granted in life...a chance.

Like everyone has stated you would put the 5 conference champs in the playoff and have 3 wildcards. The G5 gets a team if they have a team ranked in the Top 12. That means they woukd have to go 13-0 most years. Tough to do but it can be done. The other two teams would be the two highest ranked non conference champions. The NY6 bowls would round robin the tourney every year much like it’s done now and to make the Rose Bowl happy, promise them that the years they host a first round game at least one of the participants would be from either the BIG or PAC 12.

By doing it this way, every team has a shot. Right now this whole thing is a big show for about 15-20 teams (the same ones by the way) every year. I do believe this is a contributing factor to lower ratings and decreases in attendance across the country at most college venues. Playing for the weed eater bowl is not a big incentive. Playing to get a ticket to the dance is a real incentive.
 

findguapo

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 7, 2006
982
I think every team should have a chance at the beginning of the year. In basketball and baseball, every team has a chance, and there are frequently cinderellas from small conferences that get to the championship game. Moving to 8 teams gives every team a chance.
 

Green (Tongued) Monster

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 2, 2016
1,010
Hanover, PA
Alabama will likely get the 4th spot, but USC and UCF both deserve it more than them. OSU got destroyed by Iowa, they should be out regardless.
Alabama will probably get the 4th, but I'm not sure what argument USC has to even be in this discussion other than being a mediocre conference champion. A 2OT escape of Texas, a lucky win at home to Utah, a 35 point loss to ND?

Unrelated to your post, I also agree that 8 is too many for a playoff, especially using this year as an example. If a team loses 2 during the regular season, they should have no right being in a playoff. I would reward the kids at UCF for an undefeated season before giving Ohio St or USC the right to get destroyed by Clemson.
 

canderson

Mr. Brightside
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
39,614
Harrisburg, Pa.
Alabama will probably get the 4th, but I'm not sure what argument USC has to even be in this discussion other than being a mediocre conference champion. A 2OT escape of Texas, a lucky win at home to Utah, a 35 point loss to ND?

Unrelated to your post, I also agree that 8 is too many for a playoff, especially using this year as an example. If a team loses 2 during the regular season, they should have no right being in a playoff. I would reward the kids at UCF for an undefeated season before giving Ohio St or USC the right to get destroyed by Clemson.
USC has a better SOS and more top 40 wins than both Alabama and Ohio State.
 

findguapo

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 7, 2006
982
They made the right choice IMO. Alabama is a better team than Ohio State and USC. Alabama would be favored by around 5 points against Ohio State.
 

luckiestman

Son of the Harpy
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
32,821
As many have stated on this thread, close to 80% of the FBS schools know going in to the season each year there is 0 chance they will be in the playoffs, as it is currently constructed. What makes hoops so great is the George Masons of the world start the year with a chance, albeit tiny, but a chance they could get to the tourney and make a run.

I am all for an 8 team playoff. Like hoops the tourney would be slanted to the big boys but also like hoops if you go to 8 everyone has a chance. And that’s all everyone should be granted in life...a chance.

Like everyone has stated you would put the 5 conference champs in the playoff and have 3 wildcards. The G5 gets a team if they have a team ranked in the Top 12. That means they woukd have to go 13-0 most years. Tough to do but it can be done. The other two teams would be the two highest ranked non conference champions. The NY6 bowls would round robin the tourney every year much like it’s done now and to make the Rose Bowl happy, promise them that the years they host a first round game at least one of the participants would be from either the BIG or PAC 12.

By doing it this way, every team has a shot. Right now this whole thing is a big show for about 15-20 teams (the same ones by the way) every year. I do believe this is a contributing factor to lower ratings and decreases in attendance across the country at most college venues. Playing for the weed eater bowl is not a big incentive. Playing to get a ticket to the dance is a real incentive.

This post begs the question

You start with the assumption that college “hoops is great”

I think it totally sucks. The next time I watch a regular season college game will be the first time in a long time.
 

findguapo

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 7, 2006
982
This post begs the question

You start with the assumption that college “hoops is great”

I think it totally sucks. The next time I watch a regular season college game will be the first time in a long time.
College hoops, and more important to this conversation, college hoops playoffs, is unequivocally great. March Madness takes over everything for a couple weeks every year. People that have no interest in any sports whatsoever fill out a bracket and watch games.
 

berniecarbo1

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2008
1,518
Los Angeles, CA
This post begs the question

You start with the assumption that college “hoops is great”

I think it totally sucks. The next time I watch a regular season college game will be the first time in a long time.
I’m talking the tournament. Not the regular season. I agree regular season hoops by and large is not great. But the tourney is good. The football playoff has really no drama to it and is NOT national in scope. Having 8 teams assures you have a national footprint, you get a Cinderella and ultimately the best teams rise to the top as the playoff moves forward.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
71,200
looks like the committee put 3 loss Auburn at #7. So, little respect for USC.
Auburn played 4 games against the 4 teams who made it, going 2-2. That has to be unprecedented, and close to impossible.
 

PaulinMyrBch

Don't touch his dog food
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 10, 2003
8,316
MYRTLE BEACH!!!!
Another argument against 8 is that college football is severely top heavy. Huge difference between 1/2 and 3-8 in most years. Last year the semifinal games were both blowouts. We don’t need the romantic Cinderella story of a Florida Gulf Coast to make it interesting. We need competitive semifinal games. And those for the most part haven’t’ been competitive. I don’t want to see 8, and I don’t care about a UCF going 12-0 not getting a chance. This isn’t about making sure every NCAA football team has a chance to win it all before the season starts. It’s about making sure the best 4 teams are playing for the title.
 

Old Fart Tree

the maven of meat
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 10, 2001
14,119
Boulder, CO
I think 8 is the right number for the playoff. You'll always get the n+1 argument, but 8 with the five power conferences and three at large bids, you can actually give the UCFs and Boise States of the world a chance.
 

wonderland

New Member
Jul 20, 2005
532
I think 8 is the right number for the playoff. You'll always get the n+1 argument, but 8 with the five power conferences and three at large bids, you can actually give the UCFs and Boise States of the world a chance.
I don’t think they would stand a chance to win three games against that competition over a short time span. They don’t have the overall depth and talent to do it. One game? Sure. But not three.
 

InstaFace

The Ultimate One
SoSH Member
Sep 27, 2016
22,260
Pittsburgh, PA
I think 8 is the right number for the playoff. You'll always get the n+1 argument, but 8 with the five power conferences and three at large bids, you can actually give the UCFs and Boise States of the world a chance.
The only counterargument I give credence to is to have 6 in the playoff instead. Two byes to the teams who would have played for the title in the old system, plus 4 other teams, would eliminate most of the whining.

We've had years where >4 teams have credible claims to being the best team in the country, and that's what we're trying to accommodate. Yes there'll always be an n+1 argument, but unlike a 68-team basketball field, all we're trying to do here is find all the teams who could credibly claim they might be the best team in the country. That's basically never going to be more than 6. In years when there are a few teams clearly differentiated from the others (but you're having a playoff anyway), giving them a bye is a major gift, one fewer game to get injured in (and something for them to play for beyond just making the playoff). 6 also means you're not obliged to take all of the P5 conference winners, whereas you kinda would be with 8, which helps with overall quality of the QFs.

Mind you, I'd be perfectly happy with 8, but I can see the merits of 6 as well. 4 is clearly insufficient.
 

Old Fart Tree

the maven of meat
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 10, 2001
14,119
Boulder, CO
I don’t think they would stand a chance to win three games against that competition over a short time span. They don’t have the overall depth and talent to do it. One game? Sure. But not three.
I think you’re right, but then, that’s why they play the games.
 

The Needler

New Member
Dec 7, 2016
1,803
Your comparison of the FBS’s method of determining a champion compared to every other college sport was simply bogus. None of those other sports limit their entrants such that legitimate championship-caliber teams are excluded.
Automatic inclusion of the "Power 5" conferences is arbitrary. Selection by committee is subjective. I personally believe the latter is preferable to the former. When there is a good chance that automatic inclusion will lead not only to more-qualified teams being excluded from other conferences, but also from the very same one, that criteria is unappealing. There is, for example, no "legitimate championship-caliber team" from the PAC-12 this year. Including one because of history, money, or any other reason to the detriment of any of the several better teams that would be left out (including the best team from that conference) is silly.
 
Last edited:

OurF'ingCity

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 22, 2016
8,469
New York City
Including one because of history, money, or any other reason to the detriment of any of the several better teams that would be left out (including the best team from that conference) is silly.
You can disagree with the suggestion, but to suggest that this approach would be "silly" is itself somewhat silly given that all 4 major professional sports leagues more or less follow this approach, especially in football and baseball. There have been numerous times where a shitty division winner in the NFL or MLB has made the playoffs over much better teams that didn't win their division, and even in the NBA and NHL if one conference is significantly better than the other deserving teams will similarly get left out.

I think some are also downplaying the boost a larger playoff would have to engagement (and, thus, money): since more games would have playoff implications, more games would "matter" down the stretch (the Pac-12 championship, for example, would have taken on much greater importance). So you can disagree with the Power-5 auto-bid suggestion but it's not like there are not legitimate reasons to go that route.

(FWIW, I also don't think the 8-team format with P5 conference winners and 3 at-large teams (or even 2 at-large teams and the best non-P5 team) creates a "good chance" that significantly better teams would get excluded. If you just look at the final rankings from this year, if we had the 8 team format it would be Clemson, Oklahoma, UGA, Ohio St., USC, Alabama, and then one or both of Wiscy and Auburn depending on whether you think UCF should also get an auto-bid. I don't see any team outside of that group that could make a claim as the best team in the country. And yes, in this scenario USC gets a minor "advantage" for playing in a conference that was bad this year but again that's no difference than an NFL team getting an "advantage" because they play in a bad division.)
 

The Needler

New Member
Dec 7, 2016
1,803
You can disagree with the suggestion, but to suggest that this approach would be "silly" is itself somewhat silly given that all 4 major professional sports leagues more or less follow this approach, especially in football and baseball. There have been numerous times where a shitty division winner in the NFL or MLB has made the playoffs over much better teams that didn't win their division, and even in the NBA and NHL if one conference is significantly better than the other deserving teams will similarly get left out.
Sure, and anyone who thinks that the NFL or MLB's postseason tournaments are an effective way to determine the "best" team is fooling himself. They determine who the winner of the tournament is, not much more.

If UNC wins the ACC regular season title, NC State wins the ACC Tournament, and Duke wins the NCAA Tournament, which one shows us who the "best team" in the ACC was?

Having a tournament to name a "Champion" is fine. But when that tournament can have a winner with 4 losses including one to a team whose only loss is in the championship game, and who may even have previously beaten the winner, we've kind of thrown out the idea that we're identifying the best team. And when the potential teams that can be included in the tournament are so limited and their selection so arbitrary, even "champion" feels disingenuous to me.

So basically, I'm fine with either Randy and Paula naming the "best" team, or a large and inclusive tournament deciding a "champion." But the proposed mixtures don't do much for me.
 

wonderland

New Member
Jul 20, 2005
532
I wish they went to six, seven, or eight conferences with ten teams in each. Everybody plays everybody and get rid of the dumb championship games.