2017 Celtics Offseason: News and General Discussion

cardiacs

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Didn't see anywhere to put below so started a new thread.
Suggest not to post any draft-related stuff here until after draft night.
 

cardiacs

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luckiestman

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Does anyone have insight into whether or not Ainge already knows if he has a shot at Hayward? What is the process on talking to agents? Could Brad and Gordon already know if he is coming or not?
 

ifmanis5

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riboflav

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Well, that's weird. A lot of Ball apologists have been arguing that it's absurd to expect a potential high pick in the draft to work out for teams (not named LAL).
 

nighthob

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Yes, but if the price is reasonable he might be ideal as a stretch 4 here,
 

ALiveH

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yes on galinari, only after striking out on Hayward and Blake. He's probably worth about $100M for 4. Giving him the max would be foolish.
 

BigSoxFan

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I'm voting no. Don't want the age 29-32 seasons of a guy who is a good bet as any to miss 20-30 games / year. I like his game but his injury history is tough for me to get past.
 

Koufax

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And I'm excited to know that you'll be reporting on your observations from there.
 

HomeRunBaker

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And I'm excited to know that you'll be reporting on your observations from there.
I'm not sure if I was posting here last summer but or only on CelticsNuts but I do remember sharing some funny sequences and experiences. I'll recap a few off the top of my head..........

1. Amazing Venue! You have the 18,000 seat Thomas & Mack Center hosting one set of games then on the other side of the building in Cox Pavilion (UNLV's practice court) you are in these cozy confines of what amounts to a high school gym holding I'm guessing 2500-3000 people max. Personally, I only attended games in Cox as it exemplifies what Summer League is all about. You are cramped into bleacher seating with NBA players, scouts, college and pro coaches, etc along with a TON of young kids looking for autographs from anyone and everyone. HVAC unit was awesome as the temp was to where it never felt uncomfortable at all. They do a fantastic job operationally.

2. Taurean Prince was seated directly behind me with his two primary agents to his right and to the right of them on the end of the row was the "young aspiring 22-year old agent" whose primary job was to alert young autograph seekers that Taurean wasn't available to sign right now (which is necessary or else these players would get bombarded the entire time). One after another kid would end up handing their program to one of the primary agents to pass down to Taurean as each one would call him by a different name (nobody knew or cared which player it was all that mattered was it that it was an NBA player) who to his credit did graciously sign each one. Finally, one of the agents leans over to the "young aspiring protégé" with a smirk and says (paraphrasing best of my recollection), "You're doing a heck of a job down there. I'll make sure I never hire you as a security guard." Taurean, the other agent, myself and others laughed out loud. Great moment. Poor kid.

3. Sitting there watching one of Kris Dunn's games (before he was finished for summer with concussion from nasty elbow to head) with his Dad, step-mother, and a couple of Kris' friends I'm chatting with the young kid next to him during game and impressed with his knowledge. I'm thinking to myself, "This kid looks soooo familiar and he clearly understands the game. Why do I think I know who this 16-year old kid is?" Finally in the 2nd half I lean over to Kris's Dad and ask him who the young kid next to me is.........he gives me this incredulous look and says, "What? You know Bryce!" Jesus F.....Bryce Cotton is literally about 5'8 150 lbs soaking wet and looks like he hasn't ever needed to shave. We all laughed.
 

The Social Chair

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Blake at this stage seems similar to when Amare signed with the Knicks. You'll hopefully get a couple of good seasons before his body breaks down.
 

bosox79

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Blake at this stage seems similar to when Amare signed with the Knicks. You'll hopefully get a couple of good seasons before his body breaks down.
I dunno. Maybe. I've mentioned it before, but he started jacking up 3s half way through the season and making them. If he can really shoot 3-4 3's a game and make 36% of them, with his passing skills he should be able to get by being a step slower. What is the max he can sign for anyway? 5 years or 4 years?
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Wojo says that Cs are "a primary threat to sign" Blake Griffin away from the Clippers. http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/246250/Celtics-Considered-Primary-Threat-To-Sign-Blake-Griffin-Away-From-Clippers

While I'm not sure how much better Griffin makes the Cs, if signing Griffin means that the Clippers have to blow everything up - thus making the 2019 pick even more valuable - I'm all for it.
If Chris Paul skips town there's a solid chance we never see that pick at all. Needs to fall outside the lottery in either that year or 2020 and currently the only players guaranteed through the '18-'19 season are Jamal Crawford and Wesley Johnson. If he stays I think enough pieces stay in place to keep it around the 20 range, which would represent a decent value win over what was traded for it.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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If Chris Paul skips town there's a solid chance we never see that pick at all. Needs to fall outside the lottery in either that year or 2020 and currently the only players guaranteed through the '18-'19 season are Jamal Crawford and Wesley Johnson. If he stays I think enough pieces stay in place to keep it around the 20 range, which would represent a decent value win over what was traded for it.
You're right, thanks for the correction. I forgot it was lottery protected. Getting senile in my old age.
 

bowiac

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I dunno. Maybe. I've mentioned it before, but he started jacking up 3s half way through the season and making them. If he can really shoot 3-4 3's a game and make 36% of them, with his passing skills he should be able to get by being a step slower. What is the max he can sign for anyway? 5 years or 4 years?
Agreed. He's already started play away from the rim a bit more. His rebounds have gone down almost every year in the league, while his assists have gone up. Griffin's defensive shortcomings at the rim are also less of a problem than they used to be, as the league has moved to more of a perimeter game.

It's a strange comparison since they came in the league as such different players, but looking at the box scores, he looks a lot like Al Horford actually.
 

cheech13

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Does a Griffin-Horford front line work in today's game? Both have shown that they can shoot 3s, but neither is a strech big in the traditional sense. They're both good defenders, but neither offers much rim protection, and neither is going to chase smaller fours out on the perimeter. It just seems like a moderately awkward fit even if the talent upgrade would be huge. My guess is Stevens could make it work but it doesn't make perfect sense basketball-wise.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Horford, imo, is a decent rim protector. He's not a super flashy weakside shot blocker, but those are somewhat distinct.

I do think rebounding is a challenge for a Griffin-Horford front line....but Celts have tended to worry less about that. Griffin also was (his first two years) an outstanding rebounder and his decline coincides with Jordan's increase in minutes. That doesn't mean Griffin would get 12 a game here, but it is not completely inconceivable he'd be better than his recent numbers suggest.
 

BigSoxFan

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Does a Griffin-Horford front line work in today's game? Both have shown that they can shoot 3s, but neither is a strech big in the traditional sense. They're both good defenders, but neither offers much rim protection, and neither is going to chase smaller fours out on the perimeter. It just seems like a moderately awkward fit even if the talent upgrade would be huge. My guess is Stevens could make it work but it doesn't make perfect sense basketball-wise.
I think that frontcourt would match up pretty well with Cleveland assuming they don't trade Love. At this point, I just want the talent upgrade and would worry about the fit later. My preference is still Hayward but if he stays in Utah, I'd go hard after Griffin and sort out the roster later.
 

bosox79

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Agreed. He's already started play away from the rim a bit more. His rebounds have gone down almost every year in the league, while his assists have gone up. Griffin's defensive shortcomings at the rim are also less of a problem than they used to be, as the league has moved to more of a perimeter game.

It's a strange comparison since they came in the league as such different players, but looking at the box scores, he looks a lot like Al Horford actually.
Him and Stoudamire aren't really comparable anyway. Amare was pretty one dimensional offensively and arguably a worse rebounder than Griffin. He did block some shots in his early days though. I wonder how Amare would have fared in today's game. He was a pretty good FT shooter so maybe he could have expanded his game beyond the arc. He wasn't terrible from 16"+

Does a Griffin-Horford front line work in today's game? Both have shown that they can shoot 3s, but neither is a strech big in the traditional sense. They're both good defenders, but neither offers much rim protection, and neither is going to chase smaller fours out on the perimeter. It just seems like a moderately awkward fit even if the talent upgrade would be huge. My guess is Stevens could make it work but it doesn't make perfect sense basketball-wise.
It would also give the opposing teams fits on the offensive end. The ball movement and spacing would be amazing.
 

moly99

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Even though I don't like him much and think the Celtics should be focused on the future rather than the present, from fit perspective I actually think Griffin makes more sense than Hayward. Defending Horford and Griffin together would likely be a nightmare for other teams, and that should open up massive lanes for our guards.

The real question is whether he can effectively guard LeBron on the other end.

Does a Griffin-Horford front line work in today's game? Both have shown that they can shoot 3s, but neither is a strech big in the traditional sense. They're both good defenders, but neither offers much rim protection, and neither is going to chase smaller fours out on the perimeter.
Rim protection should be decent enough. But the ability to defend quicker players worries me a bit. Not only stretch fours, but also guards off screens and picks.
 

bosox79

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Horford, imo, is a decent rim protector. He's not a super flashy weakside shot blocker, but those are somewhat distinct.

I do think rebounding is a challenge for a Griffin-Horford front line....but Celts have tended to worry less about that. Griffin also was (his first two years) an outstanding rebounder and his decline coincides with Jordan's increase in minutes. That doesn't mean Griffin would get 12 a game here, but it is not completely inconceivable he'd be better than his recent numbers suggest.
Partly Jordan but also because he's moved away from the rim. It's mostly his offensive rebounding that has suffered.
% of Shots taken beyond 16 feet
'13 .255 -.026 from 3
'14 .309 -.032 from 3
'15 .400 -.022
'16 .488 -.030
'17 .399 -.116

In the last 22 games of the season, 21.9% of his shots were from 3 point range. In the playoffs, 11.8%.
 

Sam Ray Not

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Man, I'd take Hayward over Griffin every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

• One full year younger
• Much less worrisome injury history, with a smoother game that seems like it'll age better
• More versatile game on both ends (stretches the floor much better on O, more capable of guarding guards and wings on D)

Also, more anecdotally: Hayward seems like a genuinely good dude both on and off court, where Blake seems like a bit of a tool (e.g. punching members of his training staff, that gross "suck me" thing he did to a staffer, etc.) who is widely disliked around the league for his flopping and other annoying antics.



Just say no to Blake!
 

bosox79

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Man, I'd take Hayward over Griffin every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

• One full year younger
• Much less worrisome injury history, with a smoother game that seems like it'll age better
• More versatile game on both ends (stretches the floor much better on O, more capable of guarding guards and wings on D)

Also, more anecdotally: Hayward seems like a genuinely good dude both on and off court, where Blake seems like a bit of a tool (e.g. punching members of his training staff, that gross "suck me" thing he did to a staffer, etc.) who is widely disliked around the league for his flopping and other annoying antics.

Just say no to Blake!
Pretty sure everyone would. Blake is a fallback option. I would take Blake or Millsap over nothing. I do think Griffin is a better fit than Hayward, but the C's would be better with Hayward. He's a better player and a decent fit himself.
 

Eddie Jurak

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I'd be inclined to think that there is more there from Griffin on the defensive glass than the numbers indicate.

Defensive rebound rates not that different from Horford (a bit better) but Griffin shares the floor with a rebounding beast.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Apologize if this has been posted before, but just found this video from June 2016. It's David Blatt speaking at the adidas EUROCAMP 2016 and talk to all the young men about their basketball careers. His main point - that everything a player does is important - is illustrated by story he tells of a certain Celtic. People who haven't watched it really should.



edit: video came from this story, which is also worth reading.
 
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DannyDarwinism

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Apologize if this has been posted before, but just found this video from June 2016. It's David Blatt speaking at the adidas EUROCAMP 2016 and talk to all the young men about their basketball careers. His main point - that everything a player does is important - is illustrated by story he tells of a certain Celtic. People who haven't watched it really should.


edit: video came from this story, which is also worth reading.
Google "Sofoklis Schortsanitis" then imagine going up against that grown-ass man as a 16 year old. Our young Ante is tempered by fire.

And is the "other" Croatian 16 year old who struggle at Maccabi because he wasn't a hard-ass Terminator like Zizic presumably Dragan Bender?
 

southshoresoxfan

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Apologize if this has been posted before, but just found this video from June 2016. It's David Blatt speaking at the adidas EUROCAMP 2016 and talk to all the young men about their basketball careers. His main point - that everything a player does is important - is illustrated by story he tells of a certain Celtic. People who haven't watched it really should.



edit: video came from this story, which is also worth reading.
Wow. That was awesome. Thanks for sharing. Lots of life lessons can be taken from the basketball court. Ill take a kid like Zizic every day and twice on Sunday over a kid like Bender.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I'd be inclined to think that there is more there from Griffin on the defensive glass than the numbers indicate.

Defensive rebound rates not that different from Horford (a bit better) but Griffin shares the floor with a rebounding beast.
I was about to post the same here. Blake is a slightly plus rebounder for his position once you look beyond the spreadsheet and recognize how many rebounds DeAndre takes from Blake.
 
Jul 15, 2005
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were there any plans to break out the #1 overall pick thread post-trade? (I only got mid way into the discussion)

I really hope DA isn't GFIN mode...
 

smastroyin

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It's really weird timing though unless he signed for the vet min.

oh, now I see, it's just a verbal commit until they have figured out everything, he didn't actually sign.
 

Cellar-Door

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He's just a min exception bench body who will sign after the Celtics have finished with their major FA targets
 

RedOctober3829

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It's really weird timing though unless he signed for the vet min.

oh, now I see, it's just a verbal commit until they have figured out everything, he didn't actually sign.
Gary Washburn says he has a 2-year contract.

"BOSTON – Free agency is still a couple weeks away, but it appears the Boston Celtics have already looked into increasing its depth in the frontcourt.

German forward Daniel Theis of Germany has reportedly come to terms with the Celtics on a two-year contract."

http://www.csnne.com/boston-celtics/boston-celtics-german-forward-daniel-theis-agree-two-year-deal
 

HowBoutDemSox

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Could be that the second year is a team option/non-guaranteed, right? That would fit Danny's style pretty well.
 

bosox79

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highlight film and all but he looks like he could fill a need on the Celtics. A stretch big who can block shots. He'd replace the KO/Jerebko role. It'll be interesting if they start the year with Theis, Zizic, Yabu as their front court.