2017 Brady Watch: Is Guerrero Legit?

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

I had the same thought. Ligaments aren't muscles. Pliability work helps with, well, pliability, but it's not like there's a way to strengthen what's essentially the human body equivalent of a rubber band.

The only thing I can think of that makes sense in that context is doing exercises to strengthen the muscles around the knee. After I tore my ACL my pre-hab before the surgery was to get those muscles stronger to help support the reconstructed knee after the surgery.

As others have said it makes zero sense to try to strengthen the ACL itself.

 

[tims4wins]

Back at practice today

 

[CarolinaBeerGuy]

You guys can take this for what it's worth.

Someone I know and see a couple times a week works for the TB12 clinic and with Guerrero and Tom pretty closely. We discussed this last week on Wednesday prior to the game, and he said that Tom should be ok as long as he didn't get too beat up against Tampa - but that he was hurting a bit.

Anecdotally - he also said that the day before Edelman tore his knee, Alex was telling Julian that he needed to be doing strengthening exercises on his ACL because it was a 'ticking time bomb.' So, there's that.

Why does Brady get a pass on the bullshit he and Guerrero are selling? This could probably be a separate thread.

https://deadspin.com/bomani-jones-on-tom-bradys-bizarre-training-schemes-t-1820038413

 

[dcmissle]

Because the track records of Bomani Jones and Deadspin are well established. Butt hurt.

 

[Ralphwiggum]

I think Brady honestly believes the stuff he's selling in the book. He's 40 years old and is playing QB in the NFL at as high a level as anyone, has been ridiculously durable during his career and is showing no signs of slowing down. Why wouldn't he think it works?

I'm not saying that makes it right, necessarily, but I don't think Brady is trying to scam people out of money. I think he believes it works.

Guerrero is another story all together particularly given his past, and the fact that unlike Brady I don't think he's already taken care of generations of his family financially.

 

[tims4wins]

"It’s a scheme to get rich by exploiting gullible people."

Is Brady the gullible person he is referring to? Or is Brady orchestrating the scheme to get even more ridiculously rich? I'm confused.

 

[dcmissle]

Tell you what. The League can put this on the list and get to it after they scrub Eli and memorabilia. Where fans were actually defrauded.

 

[CarolinaBeerGuy]

Because the track records of Bomani Jones and Deadspin are well established. Butt hurt.

My point was more about the fact that Brady is selling this shit (knowing/not knowing it’s a fraud is another subject) and not about the author/publisher of the article. The laundry deflection is strong around here.

 

[BaseballJones]

Well....it seems to be working for Brady, right? So....how are we to know it's BS?

 

[tims4wins]

Do you think he is selling it to try to make a quick buck, or because he actually believes it?

 

[DJnVa]

My point was more about the fact that Brady is selling this shit (knowing/not knowing it’s a fraud is another subject) and not about the author/publisher of the article. The laundry deflection is strong around here.

This has been brought up before. There was a thread about it.

But I don't believe you think that this is the first time people are selling items of dubious quality, etc. right? What do you expect to happen? Express some disdain on a message board and suddenly everything will be fixed to the point it's acceptable to you?

 

[DJnVa]

Do you think he is selling it to try to make a quick buck, or because he actually believes it?

I know you weren't addressing me, but I think I don't care either way. A fool and his money...

 

[johnmd20]

My point was more about the fact that Brady is selling this shit (knowing/not knowing it’s a fraud is another subject) and not about the author/publisher of the article. The laundry deflection is strong around here.

I don't think this is accurate at all. There isn't laundry deflection going on here, in my opinion. Brady is eating chia pets(seeds) and whatever else because he believes it helps him. And I think it's safe to say he's right, considering what he's doing at 40 years old.

Is he taking some form of HGH too? Maybe, probably. I think almost every NFL, MLB, and NBA player is doing something. To pretend otherwise is to ignore history, science, and the money involved.

 

[CarolinaBeerGuy]

This has been brought up before. There was a thread about it.

But I don't believe you think that this is the first time people are selling items of dubious quality, etc. right? What do you expect to happen? Express some disdain on a message board and suddenly everything will be fixed to the point it's acceptable to you?

I couldn’t find the thread. Apologies. I just find it amusing that this is basically looked at as fine because it’s Brady. If this were Eli or any other “rival” player you guys would be all over it.

 

[DJnVa]

I couldn’t find the thread. Apologies. I just find it amusing that this is basically looked at as fine because it’s Brady. If this were Eli or any other “rival” player you guys would be all over it.

If there was a thread expressing these issues, isn't it clear that not everyone here looked at it as "fine"?

 

[CarolinaBeerGuy]

I don't think this is accurate at all. There isn't laundry deflection going on here, in my opinion. Brady is eating chia pets(seeds) and whatever else because he believes it helps him. And I think it's safe to say he's right, considering what he's doing at 40 years old.

Is he taking some form of HGH too? Maybe, probably. I think almost every NFL, MLB, and NBA player is doing something. To pretend otherwise is to ignore history, science, and the money involved.

It’s not about what he’s taking. It’s the fact that he’s selling it (and at a ridiculous price point).

 

[CarolinaBeerGuy]

If there was a thread expressing these issues, isn't it clear that not everyone here looked at it as "fine"?

Mind linking to the thread? I searched and didn’t find it.

 

[DJnVa]

Mind linking to the thread? I searched and didn’t find it.

http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?threads/concussion-water-tom-brady-approved-snake-oil.11408/

 

[DJnVa]

It’s not about what he’s taking. It’s the fact that he’s selling it (and at a ridiculous price point).

Why are you white knighting it? If people want to buy what he's selling and pay stupid $$$, oh well.

 

[tims4wins]

It’s not about what he’s taking. It’s the fact that he’s selling it (and at a ridiculous price point).

Again, do you think he is selling it to make a quick buck? The guy is rich beyond rich. He is selling it because he believes in it.

 

[CarolinaBeerGuy]

Ok, I’m gonna leave this alone. Nothing productive is going to come from discussing this further in this thread.

 

[luckiestman]

The thing about Brady's book is that I believe it very likely lies by omission. I assume Brady is on some amazing shit that they do not disclose.

Steroid bodybuilding monsters post their alleged diet and workout programs in muscle mags. Let's give them the benefit of the doubt and say they are accurate. They are misleading as advice for a clean trainee because they don't to inform the reader that the body builder is also on a strong pharma program.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

People believe all kinds of shit when it comes to diet. I don't see how it's any more of a con than any other diet out there. If you have a problem with the price point, just don't buy the book.

 

[Stitch01]

The answer to the question is because he won five Super Bowls and is playing at an elite level at age 40. Whether that’s right or wrong, that’s the answer.

Guerrero has a shady past and seems like a shady dude. TB believes in Guerrero because they’ve found a training and diet regimen thats worked so well for TB. Some of it seems like hocus pocus, I expect blowback at some point.

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

This could probably be a separate thread

Changed thread title to track Brady, any injuries, as well as the on-going noise regarding TB12 & the Guerrero saga.

 

[johnmd20]

It’s not about what he’s taking. It’s the fact that he’s selling it (and at a ridiculous price point).

Who cares?

 

[pappymojo]

Why is $20 for a nutrition book a ridiculous price point?

https://www.walmart.com/ip/The-TB12-Method/56087388?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=0&adid=22222222227099128475&wmlspartner=wmtlabs&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=217426286598&wl4=pla-351361890360&wl5=9001998&wl6=&wl7=9001952&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=8175035&wl11=online&wl12=56087388&wl13=&veh=sem

Or are you raging about something else that you haven't articulated?

 

[pokey_reese]

This feels like one of those threads where people are arguing even though they don't really disagree on anything. Let's establish some facts here:

1.) Tom Brady is selling a book/lifestyle
2.) That book contains some things that are true, and are consistent with medical science in terms of health and diet
3.) That book also contains some things that are false, or at best dubious claims that are not supported by research
4.) That book also contains some things that sound silly and may be unproven, but could legitimately work for him
5.) Tom Brady's continued excellence at a relatively advanced age may be a reason for him, and others, to believe that some or all of these things are having the desired effect, but it is proof of exactly none of them
6.) There is nothing wrong with the price point, $20 is right around the average for a book

Now, do I think that drinking water prevents sunburns? No, I don't. But, do I think that if you actually lived the total lifestyle that book recommends you would be way healthier? Absolutely yes. While it may be sprinkled with some goofy claims that are fun to point out as snake-oil, 95% of it is not controversial. I'm not gonna buy it, but that's just because I don't need to pay $20 for someone to tell me that to be healthy, I should quit drinking and work out for four hours a day and stretch more and eat well.

What's the argument here? That Brady should be ashamed to be selling a book that contains falsehoods? I guess so, but that applies to basically any book that is about helping people, from diet books to management books. Also, I'm not sure that there is a harm here. If (gullible) people buy the book and do what it says, it sure seems likely that the positives will outweigh the negatives.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

I personally think Guerrero's a perfectly fine trainer who has chosen to distinguish himself from the many, many other fine trainers out there by slathering on top of his usual regimen an enormous dose of idiotic nonsense for his gullible, famous client.

Brady eats supremely healthy, and gets those deep tissue massages all the time. The basic stuff that Guerrero is doing with him is what's keeping Brady upright and playing well at age 40. Brady COULD get that from many other sources, but Guerrero has wrapped himself in all this other patent nonsense to make it seem like only he has the real solution for Brady, and Brady goes along with it because hell, he feels great. Brady ascribes his success to the snake oil Guerrero has put on top instead of the basics he's also getting.

I mean, Brady thinks that his $200 PJs help him recover faster. He's a naive fool when it comes to anything but football.

Tom E Curran undertook the Guerrero workout a while ago and reported losing a bunch of weight and generally getting into much better shape rather quickly. So at the core it's probably a good program. But there's no need for all the other nonsense placed on top.

 

[I am an Idiot]

This feels like one of those threads where people are arguing even though they don't really disagree on anything. Let's establish some facts here:

1.) Tom Brady is selling a book/lifestyle
2.) That book contains some things that are true, and are consistent with medical science in terms of health and diet
3.) That book also contains some things that are false, or at best dubious claims that are not supported by research
4.) That book also contains some things that sound silly and may be unproven, but could legitimately work for him
5.) Tom Brady's continued excellence at a relatively advanced age may be a reason for him, and others, to believe that some or all of these things are having the desired effect, but it is proof of exactly none of them
6.) There is nothing wrong with the price point, $20 is right around the average for a book

Now, do I think that drinking water prevents sunburns? No, I don't. But, do I think that if you actually lived the total lifestyle that book recommends you would be way healthier? Absolutely yes. While it may be sprinkled with some goofy claims that are fun to point out as snake-oil, 95% of it is not controversial. I'm not gonna buy it, but that's just because I don't need to pay $20 for someone to tell me that to be healthy, I should quit drinking and work out for four hours a day and stretch more and eat well.

What's the argument here? That Brady should be ashamed to be selling a book that contains falsehoods? I guess so, but that applies to basically any book that is about helping people, from diet books to management books. Also, I'm not sure that there is a harm here. If (gullible) people buy the book and do what it says, it sure seems likely that the positives will outweigh the negatives.

The book we are talking about is a $200 cookbook.

Edit: https://tb12sports.com/collections/nutrition/products/tb12-nutrition-manual?variant=17174898500

$20 isn’t bad for a book, $200 is absurd for a nutrition book.

 

[joe dokes]

The book we are talking about is a $200 cookbook.

To Serve Tom.

 

[pappymojo]

The book we are talking about is a $200 cookbook.

Edit: https://tb12sports.com/collections/nutrition/products/tb12-nutrition-manual?variant=17174898500

$20 isn’t bad for a book, $200 is absurd for a nutrition book.

But that is not the book Bomani Jones is referencing in the deadspin article. The deadspin article links to an espn article which includes this quote:

The TB12 Method is Brady's first real book, but there is little surprise in the fact that it doesn't take the form of a memoir, an autobiography or a tell-all -- that it isn't even really about Brady. Never in the business of self-revelation, he reveals nothing in his book except that he is very much in the business of Tom Brady. Still, The TB12 Method is an exercise in unintentional self-disclosure.

The TB12 Method sells for about $20 and is available in bookstores. The TB12 Nutrition Manual is a limited edition item that sells for $200.

 

[E5 Yaz]

To Serve Tom.

 

[Marciano490]

This is the whole industry though. There couldn't possibly be 100s of diet and exercise books and dozens of monthly magazines if everyone didn't have to try to put their own little spin on things. There's very clear, very practical, very basic ways to lose weight, or gain muscle, or get stronger. I'm sure someone could lay the whole thing out in 15 pages. But people want different and "one weird trick" and whatnot, so there's a giant industry around nutrition and exercise. The problem isn't Tom or Guerrero, it's consumers.

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

Hey guys, the more the thread veers onto a more general discussion about the legitimacy of commercially available health plans, supplements, etc., the less it belongs on BBTL.

Let's keep the topic focused on how it affects Brady and his performances on the field (or relationship with BB).

 

[jasail]

The nutrition/health science field is constantly evolving and contradicting things that we took as truth only a few short years ago (e.g., eggs). This has opened the door for a very lucrative field that sells a varying quality of health/nutrition solutions. Nearly all of which are based to differing extents in known science, not completely understood science and pseudo-science.

Celebrities that have been able to defy age become obvious targets to market their lifestyle. Gweneth Paltrow has the Goop Diet; Marky Mark is in every men's magazine marketing what he does. It's ubiquitous in our culture. For better or worse, Tom's just another example.

The reality is that some of Tom's stuff probably works. Another reality is, celebrities have access to resources normal folk don't and that plays a large factor in why they are able to defy age. Take it all with a grain of salt.

I grew up on the USDA's Food Pyramid, and it can't be any worse for you than that...

 

[FL4WL3SS]

Guys guys. Let's not distract from the real con artist. Let's not forget that Joe Montana sells sneakers that shape your ass. Joe Montana. Sketchers. That's way worse.

 

[Leather]

Take it all with a grain of salt.

Salt?!

 

[luckiestman]

Salt?!

Only the best Sherpa mined pink Himalayan salt

 

[Reverend]

I’m increasingly getting irrationally upset about the misuse of the term, “price point.”

 

[Al Zarilla]

I’m increasingly getting irrationally upset about the misuse of the term, “price point.”

My misuse word of this time is space:

I love what they’ve done with this space. The open concept gives the house so much more space.

There are too many pharmaceutical companies in that space right now.

 

[Rusty13]

Uh oh!

 

[RedOctober3829]

Sounds like the athletic training staff was bitching to Belichick about Guerrero getting in the way of their rehab programs and he sided with his guys. I don't think this is a big deal.

 

[lexrageorge]

I can certainly understand the position of the team's training staff here. I'm sure Brady and TB12's other clients will adjust just fine. Noone is going to stop Brady from seeing Guerrero anytime soon.

It's probably somewhat of a bigger deal to Guerrero, as he no longer has quite the access to the Patriot players he would have had sitting on the sidelines, etc.

The idea of this causing some major, irreparable rift between Brady and Belichick is absolute nonsense, no matter what Murray bleats to the contrary during his afternoon show.

 

[BigSoxFan]

Sounds like the athletic training staff was bitching to Belichick about Guerrero getting in the way of their rehab programs and he sided with his guys. I don't think this is a big deal.

I think this is clear proof that Brady is doing something shady and Belichick is distancing himself.

/Steelers fans

 

[joe dokes]

Sounds like the athletic training staff was bitching to Belichick about Guerrero getting in the way of their rehab programs and he sided with his guys. I don't think this is a big deal.

The team also can't stop players from seeing Guerrero on their own, just not at the stadium. It will *only* be a big deal if Brady or Guerrero makes it one. Brady wont because he knows how not to fan flames. Guerrero wont because Brady will tell him not to.
Not that reporters/talking heads wont try to make it a big deal.

According to Hohler's story, this all happened weeks ago.

BB, TB, and AG have nothing to say. The players *do* get treated at the TB12 facility 10 minutes away. The story is about 80% old news.

 

[KiltedFool]

I think this is clear proof that Brady is doing something shady and Belichick is distancing himself.

/Steelers fans

screw it nvm

 

[H78]

The bigger story, I think, is whether Brady’s injured and the training staff may be placing blame on Guerrero.

 

[RedOctober3829]

The bigger story, I think, is whether Brady’s injured and the training staff may be placing blame on Guerrero.

Not only Brady, but the returns of Hogan and Van Noy from their injuries and ultimately not being ready may be factors. Did they go to Guerrero and Guerrero said they were good to go when the athletic trainers did not agree?

 

[loshjott]

The bigger story, I think, is whether Brady’s injured and the training staff may be placing blame on Guerrero.

Maybe.

But he's a 40 yr old man playing at MVP, GOAT level. Anything from here is gravy.

Belichick should be saying, "whatever you're giving to Brady, send it to my other 52 guys."