Duke seemed to have some trouble with Portland St. tonight. I watched the second half; seems like once they figured out they could just pound it inside they were fine.
2017-2018 NC Hoops
- Thread starter Drocca
- Start date
UNC continuing their great play; beats up an undefeated Arkansas with revenge on their mind (UNC beat them in the Round of 32 last year).
Speaking of the Round of 32, Duke is down 12 at half to unranked Texas. Now I expect they will come back and win easily but it is going to be a very bad look if less than two weeks after Wendell Carter guarantees an undefeated season they are losing to unranked teams out of conference in a friendly atmosphere.
Speaking of the Round of 32, Duke is down 12 at half to unranked Texas. Now I expect they will come back and win easily but it is going to be a very bad look if less than two weeks after Wendell Carter guarantees an undefeated season they are losing to unranked teams out of conference in a friendly atmosphere.
Your point isn’t wrong but saying that Carter guaranteed an undefeated season is pretty disingenuous. He basically said that Duke shouldn’t lose this year. And he is right, they will be the more talented team than their opponent every single game. They may be favored every single game. They obviously will NOT win every game. But he hardly guaranteed an undefeated season.
I thought the funniest part was "speaking of the Round of 32."
Really excited for both games tonight; it will be our first real test, Duke's second (third?)
Really excited for both games tonight; it will be our first real test, Duke's second (third?)
UNC rewarding my shitposting Duke fans by getting absolutely crushed my MSU (who Duke beat fairly easily). yikes. The freshman bigs looked terrible for the first time this season and for the first time this season they played a potential Final Four team.
Carolina looks like it has 5 Smart's on the offensive end, just a brutal display of incompetent basketball.
My eyes only remember back to 1991 or so, but has Duke ever had a freshman as dominant and talented as Bagley? The skill is off the charts, and the numbers sneak up on you - during the PK80 semi, my dad and I were talking and we looked up and somehow he had 30+ points despite what we thought was an off night.
Bagley is averaging 22.3/11.3 (despite playing just 10 min in the Mich St game when he was poked in the eye and didn't return after logging 4 pts & 6 reb.) Traditionally, stats go down as the conference play begins, though his two best games statistically have been the last two against Texas and Florida so it's not like the likes of Utah Valley have been padding his stats too much.
So enough of the caveats. This best inaugural season for a Blue Devil was Art Heyman back in 1960/61 who put up 25.2/10.9. Back then Freshmen didn't play on varsity so that was technically his sophomore year and he was about 9 months older than Bagley is this year. In 1976/77 Mike Gminski put up 15.3/10.7, in 2004 Luol Deng recorded 15.1/6.9, 10 years later Jabari Parker put up 19.1/8.7/1.2/1.1/1.2, in 2014/15 Jahlil Okafor posted 17.3/8.3 with 1.4 blk/gm and in the last two years Brandon Ingram (17.3/6.8/2.0/1.1/1.4) and Jayson Tatum (16.8/7.3/2.1/1.3/1.1) put up some of the most balanced lines. Expanding to guards Johnny Dawkins set the standard with 17.4/4.1/4.8/0.9 (p/r/a/s) in 82/83. Bobby Hurley had 8.8/1.8/7.6/1.8 8 years later, Jason Williams posted 14.5/4.2/6.5/2.4 in 99/00, Redick went 15.0/2.5/2.0/1.2 3 years after and Austin Rivers managed 15.5/3.4/2.1/1.0 in 11/12.
So what's it boil down to? The 4 1st year records that he could beat would be points scored (1st: J Parker 670, 2nd: J Okafor 657), ppg (1st: A Heyman 25.2, 2nd: J Parker 19.1), rebounds (1st: J Okafor 322, 2nd: J Parker 306) and rpg (1st: A Heyman 10.9, 2nd: M Gminski 10.7). Barring injury, he has 23 regular season and probably 4 to 9 post-season games left so call it ~30 games to play. So to get the scoring record he'd need to average 16.5 ppg the rest of the way (well-within expectations), but to break Heyman's ppg record he'd have to step it up to ~26.1 ppg - probably impossible. Parker's pure freshman record of 19.1 ppg would require 'just' 18.4 ppg so that could easily fall.
For rebounds he's on pace to break Okafor's season record by over 100 rebounds and even Shelden Williams' single season record of 384 by over 40. With 30 more games played he would need to average 7.8 rpg for the freshman record and 9.9 rpg to become the new 'Landlord'. Heyman's 10.9 and Gminski's 10.7 rpg averages would require him pretty much keeping up his current pace of 11.3 rpg the rest of the way (10.8 rpg and 10.6 rpg respectively).
His potential reminds me most of Elton Brand's sophomore campaign (Brand missed 14 games in the heart of his freshman year after breaking a bone in his foot in practice) . In 1998/99 Brand put up 691 points (17.7 ppg) and grabbed 382 rebounds (9.8 rpg) for a Duke team which was probably the most dominant ever (notwithstanding an ending reminiscent to me anyways of Superbowl XLII). If Bagley could match those numbers it truly would be a season for the ages.
So enough of the caveats. This best inaugural season for a Blue Devil was Art Heyman back in 1960/61 who put up 25.2/10.9. Back then Freshmen didn't play on varsity so that was technically his sophomore year and he was about 9 months older than Bagley is this year. In 1976/77 Mike Gminski put up 15.3/10.7, in 2004 Luol Deng recorded 15.1/6.9, 10 years later Jabari Parker put up 19.1/8.7/1.2/1.1/1.2, in 2014/15 Jahlil Okafor posted 17.3/8.3 with 1.4 blk/gm and in the last two years Brandon Ingram (17.3/6.8/2.0/1.1/1.4) and Jayson Tatum (16.8/7.3/2.1/1.3/1.1) put up some of the most balanced lines. Expanding to guards Johnny Dawkins set the standard with 17.4/4.1/4.8/0.9 (p/r/a/s) in 82/83. Bobby Hurley had 8.8/1.8/7.6/1.8 8 years later, Jason Williams posted 14.5/4.2/6.5/2.4 in 99/00, Redick went 15.0/2.5/2.0/1.2 3 years after and Austin Rivers managed 15.5/3.4/2.1/1.0 in 11/12.
So what's it boil down to? The 4 1st year records that he could beat would be points scored (1st: J Parker 670, 2nd: J Okafor 657), ppg (1st: A Heyman 25.2, 2nd: J Parker 19.1), rebounds (1st: J Okafor 322, 2nd: J Parker 306) and rpg (1st: A Heyman 10.9, 2nd: M Gminski 10.7). Barring injury, he has 23 regular season and probably 4 to 9 post-season games left so call it ~30 games to play. So to get the scoring record he'd need to average 16.5 ppg the rest of the way (well-within expectations), but to break Heyman's ppg record he'd have to step it up to ~26.1 ppg - probably impossible. Parker's pure freshman record of 19.1 ppg would require 'just' 18.4 ppg so that could easily fall.
For rebounds he's on pace to break Okafor's season record by over 100 rebounds and even Shelden Williams' single season record of 384 by over 40. With 30 more games played he would need to average 7.8 rpg for the freshman record and 9.9 rpg to become the new 'Landlord'. Heyman's 10.9 and Gminski's 10.7 rpg averages would require him pretty much keeping up his current pace of 11.3 rpg the rest of the way (10.8 rpg and 10.6 rpg respectively).
His potential reminds me most of Elton Brand's sophomore campaign (Brand missed 14 games in the heart of his freshman year after breaking a bone in his foot in practice) . In 1998/99 Brand put up 691 points (17.7 ppg) and grabbed 382 rebounds (9.8 rpg) for a Duke team which was probably the most dominant ever (notwithstanding an ending reminiscent to me anyways of Superbowl XLII). If Bagley could match those numbers it truly would be a season for the ages.
Brand was the closest comparison I had over the weekend when discussing him. With his height and length, he brings an element to the table that Brand didn't have, and I think his footwork are also better (or at least quicker), which is saying something, since Brand had outstanding feet.
Quick pace against the Meechigan. Not much defense, but Maye and Kenny with a decent start offensively. Kenny giving V a gasm.
Really fun game to go to; we were lucky enough to sit just a few rows back from my childhood team, the 93' squad. Donald Williams is a little old for cornrows, but it was awesome.
They are a young team and the difference in how they shot tonight versus how they shot Sunday night is evidence of how up and down this year might be at times. But when they are playing together, at their peak, they look like a top ten team to me.
It doesn't make sense how good Luke Maye is and it doesn't make sense the variety his offensive game has. His passing was tremendous, post moves completely on point. Just so weird.
Davidson on Friday on the road then Sunday at home against Tulane (taking my six year old son to that one and really excited for that. Not his first game but he's getting to the age of hopefully being able to remember and soak it in). Tough stretch for them and they've already exceeded my early season expectations. This is all without what will probably be their second or third best scorer.
They are a young team and the difference in how they shot tonight versus how they shot Sunday night is evidence of how up and down this year might be at times. But when they are playing together, at their peak, they look like a top ten team to me.
It doesn't make sense how good Luke Maye is and it doesn't make sense the variety his offensive game has. His passing was tremendous, post moves completely on point. Just so weird.
Davidson on Friday on the road then Sunday at home against Tulane (taking my six year old son to that one and really excited for that. Not his first game but he's getting to the age of hopefully being able to remember and soak it in). Tough stretch for them and they've already exceeded my early season expectations. This is all without what will probably be their second or third best scorer.
Different offenses obviously (Duke runs a lot of pro stuff, especially out of horns sets while Carolina runs way more freelance stuff), but it's funny how much Duke looks like a Carolina team with all the big guys they run their offense through, and Carolina looks like a Duke team with a stretch four, one big, and a bunch of wings.
'Cuse down after one to Kentucky #2 35-21
2- 3's at the start- unable to penetrate successfully,nothing from outside. Battle tough game so far. K banging em outside. Zone too loose.
2- 3's at the start- unable to penetrate successfully,nothing from outside. Battle tough game so far. K banging em outside. Zone too loose.
If there's one thing Duke and Carolina fans can agree on, it's that Kentucky is the worst program in the country. That's all I got.
Carter guaranteeing an undefeated season after they beat Elon is looking really bad now. a 6-3 Boston College team? Duke gives up 89 points to BC?
Wonder if this actually helps Duke now that they are out from under pressure of their guaranteed perfect season.
Wonder if this actually helps Duke now that they are out from under pressure of their guaranteed perfect season.
I’m a BC fan and this was simply a flukey win. I mean, we shot 60% from 3. Duke needs to clean up their perimeter defense and to tell Bagley to stay down low where he is damn near unstoppable. Carter was real impressive down low and Trent Jr. has the chance to be a real X factor. Was surprised to see his shooting percentages for the season.
Duke has incredible talent; maybe the most talented college team of all time. I don't disagree with that at all.
Wonder if Duke will stay #1. KU also lost. Duke has beaten MSU H2H. Nova will get some votes too. I expect to see a bunch of teams with votes for #1.
I know December rankings are a badge of honor for Duke fans (side note: I've never understood this. To me, I would rather finish stronger in the tournament than early season rankings), but losing at a 6-3 Boston College team will absolutely knock them out of that spot.
I don't know who becomes number 1 but I have really very little interest in which team is number 1 a few weeks in December. I can't imagine that being what we take away from the college basketball season.
I'd have to look but my bet is UNC was never #1 in the rankings last year. And yet the cutting of the nets, the rings, they've got all that. Duke was preseason #1 and talk (just like this year but without the team guarantee) was rampant about an undefeated season. I don't remember (and maybe Duke fans do?) how many weeks they were ranked #1 but I do remember they couldn't get out of the Round of 32.
Edit - fixed; I watched the game and hate that arena on TV so not sure why I made that mistake.
I don't know who becomes number 1 but I have really very little interest in which team is number 1 a few weeks in December. I can't imagine that being what we take away from the college basketball season.
I'd have to look but my bet is UNC was never #1 in the rankings last year. And yet the cutting of the nets, the rings, they've got all that. Duke was preseason #1 and talk (just like this year but without the team guarantee) was rampant about an undefeated season. I don't remember (and maybe Duke fans do?) how many weeks they were ranked #1 but I do remember they couldn't get out of the Round of 32.
Edit - fixed; I watched the game and hate that arena on TV so not sure why I made that mistake.
Last edited:
tough to play bball in an ice hockey arena. duke had to practice at harvard the day before.
You do like to set up straw men, don't you?
Here's WC's quote by the way:
I took it in a similar vein to
Last edited:
What was Jason Tatum's flat earth pronouncement? I haven't heard that one.
Carter's quote is clearly *not a "dare from a teammate." He's making a statement after a big time win against Bowie State. "We should be undefeated this year."
Anything less than a National Championship for this team is a major disappointment.
Carter's quote is clearly *not a "dare from a teammate." He's making a statement after a big time win against Bowie State. "We should be undefeated this year."
Anything less than a National Championship for this team is a major disappointment.
Sorry - meant Kyrie's flat earth pronouncement!
It's also clearly not a guarantee but that doesn't seem to stop you from repeatedly saying that it is!
Yeah that was a big time win.
Was strange to hear that this was TN's first sell-out in 6 years. TN Players were a little starstruck with UNC, which is to be expected with that kind of program, but they competed hard and have a neat story for their grandkids now.
Was strange to hear that this was TN's first sell-out in 6 years. TN Players were a little starstruck with UNC, which is to be expected with that kind of program, but they competed hard and have a neat story for their grandkids now.
UNC, coming off a win at Tennessee, with a decent performance today beating Ohio State easily in New Orleans. Cam Johnson has arrived and looks exactly like a poor man's Justin Jackson.
Agreed. Games against Pitt and BC shouldn’t count in the conference standings, no?
Great game between Duke and Florida State right now at Hansbrough. Should be a fun ending. Duke has obviously gotten a lot of calls but even with that they are in tremendous foul trouble. Their three OAD Freshmen each have 4 fouls with 6:30 left. Is it youth and inexperience?
And the big story today is how incredible the ACC is going to be this year. B.C. almost beats VA on the road, Wake gives Carolina a little work at Carolina. Clemson looks great, Florida State looks awesome. Miami, ND. I mean Good God.
How many losses does the eventual winner of the ACC have in conference? 4?
How many losses does the eventual winner of the ACC have in conference? 4?
No D but fun game
Edit: Duke ain't winning shit with this D. This is like the Jabari year and the Ingram year. And probably others I am forgetting. They all kind of blend together
Edit: Duke ain't winning shit with this D. This is like the Jabari year and the Ingram year. And probably others I am forgetting. They all kind of blend together
Last edited:
The first 70% of 2015 before they figured out how to play D and went on a run to the Championship?
I think that's about right. I wouldn't take the over on 4 1/2 but I would on 3 1/2