2016 Texas Longhorn Football: The End of the Beginning

wonderland

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I know I was arguing for Strong to have one more year earlier in this thread. I no longer think that. At least this makes the decision easy.
 

Bosoxen

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I wanted nothing more than for him to succeed here but it just wasn't meant to be. I think back to them fucking up that coin toss against UCLA and can't help but think of how emblematic that was of the Strong era. He just couldn't do the little things right. And when you add that to failing miserably at what is supposed to be your strength, you don't get to coach big boy football for long.

I can't help but wonder if the timing means Herman will be the replacement. With the noise that the interest in him is building after that win against Louisville, particularly from Baylor, it makes sense to pounce if that's your guy.
 

canderson

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I wanted nothing more than for him to succeed here but it just wasn't meant to be. I think back to them fucking up that coin toss against UCLA and can't help but think of how emblematic that was of the Strong era. He just couldn't do the little things right. And when you add that to failing miserably at what is supposed to be your strength, you don't get to coach big boy football for long.

I can't help but wonder if the timing means Herman will be the replacement. With the noise that the interest in him is building after that win against Louisville, particularly from Baylor, it makes sense to pounce if that's your guy.
Yeah, I think that too.

My guess is Charlie coaches vs froggy and Herman in his game (both Friday), they announce the hiring next week. If a miracle happens, Traylor will be interim for bowl.

I leave Wednesday on a cruise and will be gone until Dec 4 so might not know at all what happens until then.
 

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mauf

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This article from today's Washington Post highlights an issue UT will face as they recruit Strong's successor.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2016/11/20/texas-cant-hold-em-embattled-coach-charlie-strong-and-the-longhorns-falter-at-kansas/?tid=hybrid_collaborative_1_na

We can look at Texas’ 24-21 overtime loss at Kansas and feel haunted for Coach Charlie Strong, whose three-season Texas tenure appears acutely non-tenured. We can recoil that before anything happened in the country on a fairly tepid Saturday, Brett McMurphy’s fine report for ESPN.com contained two of the ghastlier words in the language: “Texas boosters,” related to Strong’s fate....

But ... that report was one laugh-riot after another. Remember that of all the many programs that actually have won less than their fans think they have, Texas has won the less-est. It has spent decades as a good-to-very-good program occasionally finding great (as in 2005) while, all along, greatness has continued to course through its delusions.
Texas is a top-5 program on paper, but that status has eluded it for essentially the entire modern era. A mid-major coach like Herman would jump at the opportunity (to say nothing of the money), but why would a top-tier coach choose to take on those unreasonable expectations?

Edit: And now ESPN is saying Strong's ouster is official.
 
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Bosoxen

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Texas is a top-5 program on paper, but that status has eluded it for essentially the entire modern era. A mid-major coach like Herman would jump at the opportunity (to say nothing of the money), but why would a top-tier coach choose to take on those unreasonable expectations?
I don't think anyone here, other than KW, is suggesting they're going to land a name like Nick Saban or Urban Meyer. Never in my lifetime have they landed a big name head coach, so I don't expect that to change with the state in which the program currently finds itself.

Personally, I'm fine with Tom Herman. And that's frankly the biggest name they're going to be able to manage.
 

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I don't think anyone here, other than KW, is suggesting they're going to land a name like Nick Saban or Urban Meyer. Never in my lifetime have they landed a big name head coach, so I don't expect that to change with the state in which the program currently finds itself.

Personally, I'm fine with Tom Herman. And that's frankly the biggest name they're going to be able to manage.
I think a top-tier guy with baggage (Les Miles, or maybe Bobby Petrino) would be an option, or perhaps an outside-the-box pick like Jon Gruden. Whether those are better options than Herman is, of course, in the eye of the beholder.
 

Bosoxen

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I think a top-tier guy with baggage (Les Miles, or maybe Bobby Petrino) would be an option, or perhaps an outside-the-box pick like Jon Gruden. Whether those are better options than Herman is, of course, in the eye of the beholder.
Gross. I'd rather they take a shot on a young guy. Also, Herman just handed Petrino his ass on a silver platter, so I don't see how anyone could view Petrino as a superior option right now.
 

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I think it's a moot point because Petrino, at 55, knows if he leaves Louisville and anything bad happens, he won't get another good job, and also because Texas can't let Herman go to a rival. But Petrino is 109-41, probably getting his fifth 10-win season in 12 years, and probably going to his third BCS/NY6 bowl. He's had 3 top-6 finishes and might get his 5th top-12. The hope with Herman is that he can turn into Meyer/Saban, but if he turns out to be only as good as Petrino (sans baggage) he'll still be very good.
 
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canderson

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I think a top-tier guy with baggage (Les Miles, or maybe Bobby Petrino) would be an option, or perhaps an outside-the-box pick like Jon Gruden. Whether those are better options than Herman is, of course, in the eye of the beholder.
Those guys would all fail miserably at Texas.

Texas can't have a primadona head coach, it won't work.
 

Kremlin Watcher

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I don't think anyone here, other than KW, is suggesting they're going to land a name like Nick Saban or Urban Meyer. Never in my lifetime have they landed a big name head coach, so I don't expect that to change with the state in which the program currently finds itself.

Personally, I'm fine with Tom Herman. And that's frankly the biggest name they're going to be able to manage.
I am the cynic's cynic when it comes to Texas hiring a new HFC. They will, it is almost certain, get it wrong. Tom Herman's resume = Charlie Strong's resume at the same time. Good success at a mid-major, fattening up on weak teams, a few really really good wins and some real stinkers.

There is one guy who is really obvious that needs to be interviewed but probably won't because the stupid Houston booster faction is so powerful and so stupid. Jim Tressel's show-cause is a thing of the past, he has demonstrated he can win on the biggest stage, and he is available. Why he isn't at the top of the list absolutely mystifies me.
 

Bosoxen

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There is one guy who is really obvious that needs to be interviewed but probably won't because the stupid Houston booster faction is so powerful and so stupid. Jim Tressel's show-cause is a thing of the past, he has demonstrated he can win on the biggest stage, and he is available. Why he isn't at the top of the list absolutely mystifies me.
Talk about baggage. Tressel is toxic and would instantly put Texas on par with Baylor. Give me Gary Patterson's garden-variety shenanigans any day of the week.

You think Tressel's constipated style of offense would work in the Big XII? They'd be the anti-Tech.
I laughed.
 

canderson

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I think they fuck it up just because I don't believe Perrin has any idea what he's doing when it comes to administration things. It's not his fault - he's just a lawyer.
 

Kremlin Watcher

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Talk about baggage. Tressel is toxic and would instantly put Texas on par with Baylor. Give me Gary Patterson's garden-variety shenanigans any day of the week.


I laughed.
Give me a rock-solid compliance officer and staff and I would take Tressel in a heartbeat. Jesus, doesn't anyone want to win any fucking football games anymore?

Edit - and a Big XII offensive coordinator. Tell him to run the kind of offense needed to succeed in the conference. He's not stupid.
 

Bosoxen

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Give me a rock-solid compliance officer and staff and I would take Tressel in a heartbeat. Jesus, doesn't anyone want to win any fucking football games anymore?

Edit - and a Big XII offensive coordinator. Tell him to run the kind of offense needed to succeed in the conference. He's not stupid.
Isn't this part of the rub, though? As canderson pointed out, do we really trust this athletic department to dot all their i's and cross all their t's? It's more likely they give Tressel carte blanche and we're right back in the same place in five years, only with NCAA sanctions in tow. Fuck that noise.

Yes, of course, I want to win football games but there has to be a pragmatic approach to this coaching search. I'd love it if they could bring in someone who would bring a title to Austin within five years but Nick Saban isn't walking through that door. Tossing up a Hail Mary just for the fuck of it isn't going to do anyone any favors. Though I guess the fact that they'd sell a metric fuckton of burnt orange sweater vests could be the determining factor and I don't know what the hell I'm talking about.
 

canderson

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Can we talk about Gibson for a second? What the living hell has happened?

The play calling has become so fucking stupid the past few weeks, so redundant, so predictable.
 

Bosoxen

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Can we talk about Gibson for a second? What the living hell has happened?

The play calling has become so fucking stupid the past few weeks, so redundant, so predictable.
Surely you mean Gilbert, right?
 

Kremlin Watcher

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The reason the play calling sucked so hard against Kansas is that Strong and Gilbert had been busy game-planning for the cockroaches. They thought they could just out-physical Kansas and score at will.

When they realized that they couldn't, they panicked. Decided to just give the ball to Foreman. They should be fired for that alone. Can't even get a game plan together for fucking Kansas.
 

ethangl

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I think there's evidence Buechele played with a concussion. Which opens up a whole new can of worms.
 

Royal Reader

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Talk about baggage. Tressel is toxic and would instantly put Texas on par with Baylor. Give me Gary Patterson's garden-variety shenanigans any day of the week.
Look, it'd be bad, but I really don't think any kind of scandal based on illicit payments puts you in the same division as Baylor (or Penn State).

Give me a rock-solid compliance officer and staff and I would take Tressel in a heartbeat. Jesus, doesn't anyone want to win any fucking football games anymore?

Edit - and a Big XII offensive coordinator. Tell him to run the kind of offense needed to succeed in the conference. He's not stupid.
Yeah, then you're hiring a guy who hasn't coached in years to run a system he doesn't have experience with in a region where he doesn't have recruiting ties. Is Tressel that much better a coach than, say, Les Miles -who at least has a championship in the last decade - that it's worth it? I get the the decision makers in Austin suck, but programs more desperate than the horns have passed, and for good reason.

Related: if you're Tom Herman, assuming you have the pick of UT and LSU, where do you go coach? LSU is more talented right now, but Texas sits on a recruiting goldmine and you don't have to share a division with Nick Saban.
 

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I'd put them about even. Louisiana has disproportionately good recruiting and all the good ones stay in-state and you don't have to compete with half a dozen decent to great programs nearby including Okie and Okie Lite. But it should be an easier job overall since no Saban
 

Bosoxen

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Look, it'd be bad, but I really don't think any kind of scandal based on illicit payments puts you in the same division as Baylor (or Penn State).
Oh really? Because it sure seems that the sin of allowing players access to money is a far greater one than turning a blind eye to sexual assault at an institutional level.

Or am I being obtuse?

The NCAA has informed Baylor that it will not impose "sweeping sanctions against the school for broad institutional failings" in regards to the university's wide-spread sexual assault scandal
http://sportsday.dallasnews.com/college-sports/baylorbears/2016/11/08/report-ncaa-notified-baylor-will-impose-sweeping-sanctions-sexual-assault-scandal
 

Infield Infidel

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"The NCAA will "instead follow its normal investigative process," the WSJ report read. "The program still faces a more narrow NCAA probe.""

They aren't doing a "Penn State" penalty because that overreach was significantly vacated upon appeal. They actually learned something.
 

Bosoxen

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That reeks of an NFL-style overcompensation. If ever there was a time to do a sweeping investigation, this would be it. Those incidents weren't isolated to the football team nor the athletic department. The Baylor issue was one of a systemic failure to comply with federal Title IX regulations in addition to the athletic department acting like a bunch of shitheads. That situation screams "lack of institutional control", though I do understand why there is a lack of stomach for throwing that term around.

But that's for the Baylor thread. To bring it back to this thread, I stand by my original statement that hiring Tressel would put Texas on par with Baylor, but I'll add the following caveats:

*Pending the completion of the NCAA's investigation into the Baylor situation.
*Arguments about the insidious nature - or lack thereof - of player compensation, aside.
 

Royal Reader

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That reeks of an NFL-style overcompensation. If ever there was a time to do a sweeping investigation, this would be it. Those incidents weren't isolated to the football team nor the athletic department. The Baylor issue was one of a systemic failure to comply with federal Title IX regulations in addition to the athletic department acting like a bunch of shitheads. That situation screams "lack of institutional control", though I do understand why there is a lack of stomach for throwing that term around.

But that's for the Baylor thread. To bring it back to this thread, I stand by my original statement that hiring Tressel would put Texas on par with Baylor, but I'll add the following caveats:

*Pending the completion of the NCAA's investigation into the Baylor situation.
*Arguments about the insidious nature - or lack thereof - of player compensation, aside.
If what you meant by " On a par" is "At least as likely to be whacked by the NCAA," then I don't dispute that, sadly. To me "On a par with Baylor" reads as a moral claim about the relative gravity of the two scandals - that appointing Tressel would be as bad as systematically enabling abuse.
 

Bosoxen

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If what you meant by " On a par" is "At least as likely to be whacked by the NCAA," then I don't dispute that, sadly. To me "On a par with Baylor" reads as a moral claim about the relative gravity of the two scandals - that appointing Tressel would be as bad as systematically enabling abuse.
I actually meant as a whole. I know that from a moral standpoint, there's no question which scandal is by far the worst. But from an administrative standpoint, it doesn't seem that line is quite so bright, if it's even visible at all.

I think there's evidence Buechele played with a concussion. Which opens up a whole new can of worms.
This alone should be grounds for sending the whole coaching staff packing. I can't believe that can happen a mere two years after David Ash had his playing career halted due to concussion problems.
 

Kremlin Watcher

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Texas is an Unstoppable Force of Ineptitude

On Sunday morning, following a brutal overtime loss by the Texas Longhorns to the Kansas Jayhawks in Lawrence, the Burnt Orange Nation Twitter account posted this in reference to Charlie Strong’s potential firing:

"I'm sure however this whole mess goes down, it will be the worst of all possible options."

It was, potentially, the easiest prediction BON has made all season.

The leadership at Texas is, in a word, pathetic. It fumbles the ball in critical situations more often than the actual team. We’ve seen it before and we’ll see it again -- but this particular mess could be one of the ugliest yet.

First, let’s be clear about the correct decision: Texas should have let Strong go on Sunday after the Kansas game.

Nobody would blame Texas for parting ways with a coach who has posted the worst three-year record in Longhorns history after a stunning overtime loss to Kansas — a team that hadn’t won a conference game in two years. It was an anticipated move that made sense for all parties involved.

Instead, Texas did nothing on Sunday. From a PR perspective, this is the absolute worst possible option.

Texas had the opportunity to get out in front of this story and completely blew it. The failure on the Texas administration this week is arguably worse than the failure of the Texas football team on Saturday in Lawrence.

If Texas knew on Sunday morning it was keeping Strong on staff for TCU, it should have released a statement saying as much right then. Getting out in front of this story — rather than responding to reports after the fact — would have eliminated much of the hysteria on Sunday night. Hysteria that has pushed Texas players to the point of threatening to boycott the next game.

And let’s be completely clear, if the decision makers have already decided to fire Strong after the TCU game — they deserve to get fired as well.

Strong nailed his press conference on Monday morning — Texas provided him with an opportunity to make a case as to why he should stay for another season to the media. If Strong is getting fired regardless of Friday’s outcome, this press conference should never have happened.

There is nothing the Texas administration can learn about Strong’s ability to coach in the next week that it doesn’t already know. Sitting on a decision and letting Strong blow in the wind this week is cowardly.

UT President Greg Fenves doesn’t know football or college athletics — but because he decided to hand the keys of the football program over to an inexperienced booster instead of a professional, he’s the one sinking this ship. And he has decided to take it down at the same pace as the Titanic.

And if Texas beats TCU? All bets are off. This whole mess gets a lot uglier. Strong’s players will carry him off the field. Texas fans will give him a raucous ovation. The Longhorns will be bowl eligible for the first time in two years and, what, Texas fires him on Saturday? Ugh. If you thought this week was bad PR, I can’t imagine how bad that would look.

This entire season has been a Texas-sized blunder. Everyone involved has pushed the limits on failure and ineptitude. It’s another stain on an already ugly decade of Texas athletics.

Texas leadership can’t be trusted in these situations to make the right decisions. That, more than 6-6 Longhorns football, is the most disappointing reality.
 

Bosoxen

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I agree that they're likely to fuck this up but the whole premise of that article presupposes that they're going to win on Friday. The far more likely outcome is that TCU wins and the athletic department is completely justified in sending Strong packing. Though I do agree the time to do that was immediately after the Kansas game.

If by some miracle they do win on Friday, they most certainly will have a mess on their hands - of their own doing.
 

Clears Cleaver

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So chip is reporting that Herman is close to signing w LSU. And others are reporting "Strong could keep his job if they blow out TCU...."

Lolololol. This is dumbest thing ever. Is there a coach out there that even makes sense for texas? Bill O'Brien?
 

Kremlin Watcher

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Hahahahah. I told you guys they would fuck this up. No coach in his right mind would touch this athletics department. What a cesspool of self-interested assholes. Someone needs to burn Bellmont to the ground.

Happy Thanksgiving.
 

Bosoxen

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I thought you said hiring Herman would be fucking up the situation? Sounds to me like this is playing out exactly how you wanted it.
 

Kremlin Watcher

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Read between the lines. McRaven wants one guy. Fenves wants another guy. Perrin probably wants to keep Charlie. The Houston donors want Herman. The Austin faction wants someone else. Dallas someone else. I'm fine with Not Tom Herman. But who in their right mind would come to Austin in these circumstances? No job is worth the shit show that you'd have to go through in Austin to be coach of that disgrace of a football program. We'll be lucky to hire Gary Fucking Barnett at this point.

Bring back Mack I say!
 

mauf

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Is Tressel that much better a coach than, say, Les Miles -who at least has a championship in the last decade - that it's worth it? I get the the decision makers in Austin suck, but programs more desperate than the horns have passed, and for good reason.
Exactly. I'm sure there's a reason why guys like Tressel get their second chances (if they get them at all) at third-rate schools, even if I'm not exactly sure what that reason is.

Besides, Miles has already proven himself -- playing in the dogshit B12, he'll make five or six tournaments in the next decade (at least) if he replicates what he did at LSU. Even leaving Bama aside, there's a world of difference between playing schools like Kansas and Texas Tech in your easier conference games instead of playing Ole Miss and Arkansas. How many of LSU's recent teams would've failed to go 11-1 against UT's sked?