2016 NBA Draft

Drocca

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Good Lord I was off on Bosh as a comp. 48% from three in college.

I was impressed by Brice's continual ft percentage improvement but not convinced that will translate beyond the arc
 

DannyDarwinism

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It depends on what makes them poor collegiate defenders. In Denzel's case it is lack of foot speed, quickness, and lateral agility......those are only exposed further against much better and longer athletes especially as a perimeter defender without being able to hide in a zone.

Someone like Brice or a Durant back in the day have the ability to gain strength which allows them to compete BETTER defensively as they physically mature.
Yeah, I tend to agree with the point generally, which is why I'm not completely down on a guy like Chriss, who is terrible on defense but is young and has the right physical tools. And to clarify, I wasn't applying it to Brice Johnson, who I consider a decent college defender. I non-sequitured into a knock on Jamal Murray, who I see closer to Valentine in terms of foot speed and lateral quickness. He's not quite as slow as Valentine (aka "the Kyle Anderson tier") but I just can't see him staying in front of NBA PGs or chasing SGs through screens effectively enough to be anything but a bench scorer.
 

HomeRunBaker

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We really don't know specifics about Brice's 3-point shooting without knowing more about his non-UNC history. Take Karl Anthony Towns for example. Cal's offense kept him in the paint however he shown great FT touch and form......then when you research further you find that he was a GREAT perimeter shooter in high school.
 

Drocca

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I asked my buddy who works in the Athletic department and he said "Roy wouldn't let him shoot 3's in practice so who knows."

His high school stats show one three attempted (missed), so this was a terrible tangent by me.

At 23, I love him.
 

DJnVa

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a lot of bigs don't take college threes and then settle into average shooters beyond the arc, I feel like. Anyone have any examples?Bosh, maybe?
Millsap? 6 for 16 in college, he then hit 31 in his first 7 NBA seasons, before hitting 70+ each of last 3 seasons.
Horford? Zero in college, 21 in first 8 NBA seasons, 88 last year.
Cousins? 1 in college, 11 in first 5 NBA seasons, 70 last year.

Weird that it just seems to POP one year, not a progression.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Channing Frye is the most obvious. 6-23 in 4 years of college, 20-70 in his first 4 seasons in the NBA, and then the following year he went 172-392, .439%
 

DannyDarwinism

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Meyers Leonard- 1 for 12 in two years at Illinois, shot 37.7% on 228 attempts last year. From what I can see Serge Ibaka maybe took a desperation heave or two in Spain, then was 2/6 in his first three years with OKC, and has be around 35% on 390 attempts in the past two years.

It's certainly still the exception, but I get the sense it's something that big guys with decent strokes are working on more now, given the importance of the three pointer in today's game.
 

Jeff Van GULLY

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Someone has "leaked" that Jaylen Brown is headed back to Boston for a 2nd workout. I'm unsure of any other prospects to do two workouts with Boston.

So are the Celtics doing this because of actual interest in Brown or is this some strategy as part of trade talks?
 

Cellar-Door

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Well it sounds like Brown thinks he's going either to BOS or PHX, he cancelled his workout with MIN.
 

BigSoxFan

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Someone has "leaked" that Jaylen Brown is headed back to Boston for a 2nd workout. I'm unsure of any other prospects to do two workouts with Boston.

So are the Celtics doing this because of actual interest in Brown or is this some strategy as part of trade talks?
Either is in play, really. Don't think it's super common for a second workout but sure it's happened. Also possible that Ainge has caught wind of some teams' potential interest in Brown and wants to show that he's serious about taking him at 3.

Definitely interesting leading up to the draft because a million scenarios are in play here.
 

tims4wins

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Watching UVA at Duke from February. Man I wish the Celts had a shot at Ingram.

Edit: he has 21 < 3 mins into the 2nd half. Duke has 39 total. Against the #7 team and one of the best defenses in the country

Fake edit: now 23 of 41 < 4 mins into 2nd
 

E5 Yaz

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Someone has "leaked" that Jaylen Brown is headed back to Boston for a 2nd workout. I'm unsure of any other prospects to do two workouts with Boston.

So are the Celtics doing this because of actual interest in Brown or is this some strategy as part of trade talks?
Both
 

HomeRunBaker

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Watching UVA at Duke from February. Man I wish the Celts had a shot at Ingram.

Edit: he has 21 < 3 mins into the 2nd half. Duke has 39 total. Against the #7 team and one of the best defenses in the country

Fake edit: now 23 of 41 < 4 mins into 2nd
I know. I'm gonna post my mock this week which is very different than the traditional ones everyone sees. Spoiler: Ingram is #1
 

RedOctober3829

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Someone has "leaked" that Jaylen Brown is headed back to Boston for a 2nd workout. I'm unsure of any other prospects to do two workouts with Boston.

So are the Celtics doing this because of actual interest in Brown or is this some strategy as part of trade talks?
Well Danny also went to Europe to work out Bender and bender is working out in Boston so that's two workouts right there.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Well Danny also went to Europe to work out Bender and bender is working out in Boston so that's two workouts right there.
Not really. Ainge watched Bender practice with his team last month and a one-on-one game with his brother. He never went through Ainge's pre-draft workout or anything resembling something that Danny structured.
 

HomeRunBaker

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But he's seen him twice in the draft process. It signals to me significant interest.
Without a clear cut choice this is simply due diligence. Ainge has a responsibility to himself to get Bender into his workouts to see if he does actually have more of an interest especially with a guy who we haven't seen a whole lot of unlike say a Dunn or a Hield. Watching him practice with his team isn't anything like being involved in one of an Ainge-creates individual and group without.
 

Cellar-Door

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Vertical reported that Malachi Richardson has a promise at 17 from Memphis. Truly baffling since he's terrible.
 

DannyDarwinism

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I'm all for him coming off the board before 23, as long as it's not at 16. I've seen chatter that the Spurs are looking to trade into the lottery. If those rumors are legit, I'd love to know who they're targeting. Korkmaz, Luwawu, Valentine or Zubac would be my guesses.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Vertical reported that Malachi Richardson has a promise at 17 from Memphis. Truly baffling since he's terrible.
This is an inaccurate report by The Vertical as Richardson just finished working out for Toronto late this afternoon. There may have been some misinformation such as Memphis offered a promise or would like to draft him.......but there clearly was no agreement as Richardson is still looking to shoot higher with todays workout as well as 2 more still on his schedule for the coming week.

Richardon and Wade Baldwin are similar prospects in that they have such ridiculous wingspans whose games aren't really allowed to flourish in the college game. I like Baldwin much more but Richardson has a chance to have a place in this league as an Evan Turner 2nd unit-type in 3-4 years.
 
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Drocca

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Ben Simmons has elected to return to LSU, finish his degree and enter the workforce upon graduation, upon hearing this news.
 

LondonSox

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Or he posted trust the process on his Instagram. Either or.
Not a well kept secret over the last few days, so baring something crazy the Celtics are on the clock. I know the Lakers seemed to change their opinion last year late, but that was between two players largely seen as similar tier of prospect, Ingram to next is likely not close. Esp as they can lose their pick next year so waiting on a Bender or a toolsy long way away prospect would seem unlikely.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Sneaker Wars: Adidas kicking ass this summer!

"Adidas has signed Brandon Ingram, Kris Dunn, Jaylen Brown, Jamal Murray and Dragan Bender to multi-year shoe deals."
 

tims4wins

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It is interesting to re-read this thread. At one point in late March-early April it seems as though Ingram had passed Simmons on most boards.
 

jmm57

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I had heard the concerns about Chriss basketball IQ, but I was listening to Woj podcast and they said he fouled out in nearly half his games. I assumed it was hyperbole, so I looked up the game log and sure enough he fouled out 15 times. 5 times in under 20 minutes. 10 other games with 4 fouls. That's gotta be a pretty major concern.
 

DJnVa

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12 of his first 23, then 3 of his last 11, so there was some improvement.
 

RedOctober3829

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Listening to the Woj and Givony podcast on Yahoo. Some other nuggets from there.

--Teams really are more unsure about who they are picking than ever before. There's a big veil of secrecy surrounding teams right now. Varying opinions of players between teams than ever.

--Both Boston and Phoenix want to trade their picks for veteran players. All-Star type players aren't getting moved for these picks. Lots of pressure from Phoenix to win now. But right until they make those picks they are chasing veterans.

--Woj confirms that Philly is in love with Kris Dunn and is determined to trade back into the top 5 to do so. They desperately want a PG so Jeff Teague is an option but they want to expand a deal if they go that route.
 

amfox1

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http://www.campusrush.com/2016-nba-draft-scouting-reports-ben-simmons-brandon-ingram-1872857167.html?xid=si_social

Some interesting scouting reports below.

Jaylen Brown, 6'7" freshman forward, California: "Biggest mystery in the draft. What does he do? He's an average ballhandler. He's a below average shooter. In AAU and college he played bully ball, but that doesn't translate to the NBA. Little bit of a funky personality. I don't know that anybody really knows what makes that kid tick. His basketball IQ is lacking. Special physical specimen and athlete. The trouble is when you make him go multiple directions. His last month and a half was awful. Makes me really nervous."

Marquese Chriss, 6'10" freshman forward, Washington: "I saw this coming at the Pac–12 tournament. You're talking about an above-the-rim athlete, prototypical of the NBA. He's a multidimensional guy. They don't make a lot of 6'10" kids with 40–inch verticals. He didn't always play hard, but he's just a baby. He reminds me of [former LSU forward] Tyrus Thomas. He disappears for long stretches. That's his personality. I don't think he knows he should be a star."

Kris Dunn, 6'4" junior guard, Providence: "Love him. Concerned about his shoulder. He didn't go to Chicago and wouldn't submit to a physical. He's had two surgeries, so it's an issue. Special, special athlete. The shooting piece is the obvious weakness, but he can run a team. He'll make some crazy decisions with a tough pass sometimes, but you'd rather rein that in a little bit. He can guard anybody. He could be a star."

Buddy Hield, 6'5" senior guard, Oklahoma: "I'm a huge Buddy Hield fan because of the importance of the three in today's NBA. The question is whether he can create a shot for himself. He's not a terrific ballhandler in more than two dribbles. The other question is, does he make everyone else around him better? Special person, worker, will represent your team well. I think he's J.J. Redick. Limited athlete and size, limited as a ballhandler and passer. Tad small for his position. I don't know that he has that much upside. He'll be somewhere in the top 10."

Jamal Murray, 6'5" freshman guard, Kentucky: "Textbook jumper. The question is whether he can play point guard, which he didn't do at Kentucky. He's a big-time scorer, and he has stepped up at every level, including against grown men in the Pan-Am Games. He's not an unbelievable athlete, and he's not a very good defender right now. He's unbelievably confident, borderline arrogant, which is good. I don't think he's 6'5". He does something that our league loves, which is get buckets."
 

MillarTime

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Kris Dunn, 6'4" junior guard, Providence: "Love him. Concerned about his shoulder. He didn't go to Chicago and wouldn't submit to a physical. He's had two surgeries, so it's an issue. Special, special athlete. The shooting piece is the obvious weakness, but he can run a team. He'll make some crazy decisions with a tough pass sometimes, but you'd rather rein that in a little bit. He can guard anybody. He could be a star."
 

HomeRunBaker

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This is a lie. Dunn DID submit physicals to the teams he has worked out for and his shoulder ISN'T an issue.

Well "technically" it isn't a lie as he didn't submit them to all teams at the combine however this no different than any of the top lottery picks.

Edit: Re: bolded. Dunn redshirted his 2nd year and was a junior as far as eligibility goes.
 

bowiac

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What do you mean the shoulder isn't an issue? I'm not a doctor, but I would think two shoulder surgeries is itself a flag, no?
 

HomeRunBaker

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What do you mean the shoulder isn't an issue? I'm not a doctor, but I would think two shoulder surgeries is itself a flag, no?
What I mean is that it hasn't been red flagged by the team medical doctors who have seen his medicals and are all trying to move up to draft him at 3. The author implied that by not submitting to medicals at the combine Dunn was trying to hide a physical issue which isn't the case.
 

BigSoxFan

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Anyone going to the draft? I'll be there and think it could be one of the more interesting ones given all the uncertainty.
 

bowiac

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I see a difference between submitting medical records prepared by your own doctor vs. letting a team's doctor perform a physical. Did Dunn let the teams who worked him out examine him, or did he just submit prepared medical records?
 

HomeRunBaker

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I see a difference between submitting medical records prepared by your own doctor vs. letting a team's doctor perform a physical. Did Dunn let the teams who worked him out examine him, or did he just submit prepared medical records?
I don't know specifics but I'll be able to find out next week after the draft. All I know is that if there were concerns there wouldn't be such a demand for the player and I've been told the shoulder is fine.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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--Both Boston and Phoenix want to trade their picks for veteran players. All-Star type players aren't getting moved for these picks. Lots of pressure from Phoenix to win now. But right until they make those picks they are chasing veterans.
McD would never allow himself to get fleeced by Ainge again but that sure seems like a situation ripe for the picking. How often do GMs or coaches make good team decisions when they are mostly concerned with saving their job?
 

HomeRunBaker

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McD would never allow himself to get fleeced by Ainge again but that sure seems like a situation ripe for the picking. How often do GMs or coaches make good team decisions when they are mostly concerned with saving their job?
Great point on job security as this has been been a factor in trade talks forever. This is also imo a HUGE factor in having trouble getting value back for the #3 pick. How many GM's are going to give up a top veteran player for a kid who is going to likely have growing pains in the time you are trying to win for your job?
 

RedOctober3829

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Great point on job security as this has been been a factor in trade talks forever. This is also imo a HUGE factor in having trouble getting value back for the #3 pick. How many GM's are going to give up a top veteran player for a kid who is going to likely have growing pains in the time you are trying to win for your job?
Cleveland's GM doesn't have any job security issues. What about #3 and #16 for Kevin Love?
 

amarshal2

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Seems like trading with Cle involves another team or C's starters so that they aren't taking a step back
 

E5 Yaz

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After his defense has been fully exposed and how his offense wasn't utilized in Cleveland's system, why do the C's want Love at $20M per?

I guess I'm not seeing what he brings to what the Celtics do
 

HomeRunBaker

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I keep refreshing this thread hoping for HRB's mock draft.
Sorry been away from my laptop past two days to finish it up. If I have chance I'll do it tonight if not by 4pm tomorrow. How you been Felix?

Off Topic - Anyone going to be in Vegas during summer league week? I'll be out there hopefully to find a lot of interesting stuff. Going to spend some time with an old buddy who will be coaching one of the teams (not the Celtics).