2016 Miami Dolphins: Amazing Gase

[sodenj5]

Started a new thread for the upcoming season.

By now we all know the major shakeups:

• Gase is in and he'll be calling the plays on offense.
  
• Vance Joseph is the DC.
• Clyde Christensen is the OC and has a lot of experience in the offense that Gase wants to implement.

Gase held a presser at the combine and some of the highlights were:

• Gase likes the pieces Miami has on offense, particularly the receivers and TEs. It sounds like he really likes DeVante Parker and Jordan Cameron and will be implementing them into the offense more. Said the Bears were considering taking Parker last year but went with Kevin White instead. Excited to work with him. Also remarked he's looking forward to seeing what he can do with Kenny Stills.
  
• It sounds like he really likes Lamar Miller and what he brings to the offense. [The latest rumblings are Miami will be meeting with Rosenhaus at the combine to discuss bringing Miller back]
• He said the guard play is going to be important but he thinks that the solutions could be in-house already.

It sounds more and more likely that Miami is going to slap the franchise tag on Vernon if they can't come to an agreement on a new deal. They're also very likely to restructure Wake and Suh to give them some salary cap relief.

Should also start to get a better feel for who Miami is looking at for the 8th pick at the combine. Some obvious targets are:

• Myles Jack, OLB- Recovering from a torn meniscus, missed most of the 2015 season. A top ten talent that would need to check out medically.
• Jaylon Smith, OLB- Another top 5-10 talent, but with a much more severe knee injury than Jack. Happened late in the 2015 season, and would likely start the season on the PUP list, if he can contribute in 2016 at all.
• Jalen Ramsey, S/CB-Could very well be gone before Miami picks, could be an elite player at either position.
• Vernon Hargreaves III- The best pure cover corner in the draft, gets knocked a little bit for not having elite size or speed.
  
• Reggie Ragland, MLB- A name that could be in play if Miami trades down into the middle to late first round.

IMO, they need to stay at #8 unless they get several high end picks. Take the guy that will help the defense immediately. To me, that's Jack (if he checks out medically) or Hargreaves. Ramsey if he's still on the board.

 

[pdaj]

As much as I see improving the offensive line and keeping Tanny upright as the #1 objective for this franchise, I can't deny the team's desperate need to add a playmaker on the defensive end -- and LB/CB are two positions most lacking.

The DE position could be added to that group (though I like Shelby/Fede) depending on how the Cam/OV situations work out. According to a recent report, the Fins "aren't close" with Wake, but I'm unsure how hot the market will be for a 34 year old pass specialist coming off an ACL injury. Perhaps a 1/4-5mil deal? And how likely are teams to give up a draft pick and big money for Vernon? Franchising him with the intent of making a trade might field some risk.

I think Cam/Grimes/Jennings are goners. They'd combine to free up 18.9 million (and 5.9 dead). Misi (3.7/1.1) and Cameron (7.5/2) also bear watching.

 

[Clears Cleaver]

Is aid in the other thread that you'd simply get rid of them all. Gase like Cameron though so maybe he stays.

I'm actually going n for tanking the season, getting the cap in order and getting a high enough pick to get a real QB. There is no one who thinks Tannehill is good. He clearly was not bright enough to read defenses. He is not able enough to hit hot reads, and his defacto play is to throw a dump down. He's not a winner. Maybe Gase is a whisperer. They have a year to figure that out. Figure out the oline this year for once. There is no hope for the d.

 

[sodenj5]

Dolphins stick OV with the Transition Tag. Might as well kiss him goodbye.

By hitting him with the transition tag, they clearly don't feel he's worth the ~15 million he would get with the franchise tag, but would be willing to pay him ~12 million with the transition tag. Once Von Miller gets the franchise tag, Vernon will become the premier edge rusher available in free agency at 25 years old.

Do I think he's worth 14 or 15 million a season? No. He's too inconsistent. If the Vernon of the second half of 2016 was the Vernon Miami would get every single week, I would say he's worth it. Was it the defensive scheme in the first half holding him back? Was it an injury? His play hit another level in the second half of 2016, and it's too hard to tell if that's an anomaly or if that's what Vernon can do consistently as a team's #1 pass rusher.

In my mind, some team in need of a pass rusher will throw a bunch of money at him, seeing him as their long term solution at DE. I just can't see Miami matching a 14-15 million/year contract offer from another team.

 

[edmunddantes]

Von Miller already got the exclusive franchise tag so long as elway doesn't screw up the fax machine this time.

 

[Clears Cleaver]

1) restructured Suh contract, cut Jennings
2) restructured Misi (meaning Jenkins and the rest are likely goners)
3) combined freed up $24M in cap space (net net they re $19M under now and if/when OV leaves will be $32M under - adding Grimes and Wake could get them to $50M under
4) Mario Williams visited today (prior to the restructure)
5) OV has transitional tag and is hopefully a goner
6) waiting on Wake, Grimes and Cam Jordan. I think they only keep Jordan unless Wake takes a huge hit

 

[sodenj5]

1) restructured Suh contract, cut Jennings
2) restructured Misi (meaning Jenkins and the rest are likely goners)
3) combined freed up $24M in cap space (net net they re $19M under now and if/when OV leaves will be $32M under - adding Grimes and Wake could get them to $50M under
4) Mario Williams visited today (prior to the restructure)
5) OV has transitional tag and is hopefully a goner
6) waiting on Wake, Grimes and Cam Jordan. I think they only keep Jordan unless Wake takes a huge hit

I'm assuming that they're looking at Williams as insurance in case Vernon signs a deal somewhere else. Not a terrible idea. He didn't fit in the 3-4 in Buffalo and was vocal about his displeasure in the defense and his usage as an OLB. I would rather have Williams at 8-10 million for 2-3 years than Vernon at 12-13 million for 5-6 years.

By Jenkins, do you mean Jelani Jenkins? Because there's a 0% chance they're cutting a guy that's young and cheap and lead the team in tackles the previous year. He was banged up and played hurt for a lot of 2015. They need more guys like Jenkins, not less.

 

[Clears Cleaver]

I agree on Williams over ov. And wake. Not sure a guy like wake can ever return from Achilles.

I read so many places dolphins looking for two LBs. keeping misi means Jenkins not n their plans. He sucked last year after he got banged up meaning he had one good year out of four Asa dolphin.

I don't think there are three guys on that D I'd bring back. Suh and Jones and? Phillips...they are keeping misi. I suspect that's it

 

[sodenj5]

They may be looking for two LBs like they could use 2 CBs or a safety. The defense in general needs an overhaul, but with all the holes, I can't see them burning two draft picks on LB when they need help in so many other areas. They'll probably burn their first on the best LB or CB available and then go from there.

I also think that counting on Jordan for anything other than trying to get reinstated and collecting a paycheck is a mistake. Oddly enough, a guy with his talents is exactly what Miami could use. At this point you just need to chalk him up as a lost cause and be shocked if they get anything at all from him.

 

[Clears Cleaver]

i doubt Dion Jordan is asked back. he has shown zero interest in playing football as a career. belichick will turn him into a useful situational player I'm sure

 

[Clears Cleaver]

Not a surprise they want Cameron back. Sounds close to done

 

[pdaj]

Sign me up for Mario Williams at 6-7 (or even 8?) million over the next 2-3 years vs. resigning OV as an elite DE or keeping Wake at his current price tag. I'd be very surprised if Vernon outperformed Williams over the next 3 seasons, and the extra money could be used to address Miami's many other areas of need.

I'm curious to see the low-to-mid range FA moves the Fins make this year. Tannenbaum always seems linked to "big splash" signings, but you can't build a winning football team in that fashion. I'm hoping that with Chris Grier "leading" the way, or at least having a stronger voice in the FO, Miami will be smarter in FA, and build a tougher, more "blue-collar" club going forward.

Does Grimes remain a Dolphin? I think if the FO gets their way, he won't be. I think Miami will attempt to beef up this area both in FA and the draft; and if they do, he's gone.

 

[Clears Cleaver]

there are a handful of former cincy LBs and DBs that are FAs this year. Hue might push for several. who knows.

I really hope this season is about the beginning of rebuilding the D through the draft and the o-line. Give Gase a year to realize Tannehill sucks and then future success will be determined who they can fund to be the QB.

 

[Clears Cleaver]

Buh bye Brent and miko grimes. $8.5m freed up

Mario Williams said today first team to offer him $10m will win. Let's hope that's not Miami.

 

[RedOctober3829]

Buh bye Brent and miko grimes. $8.5m freed up

Mario Williams said today first team to offer him $10m will win. Let's hope that's not Miami.

There are some people saying that they are cutting Grimes to bring in Pacman Jones. Talk about trading one headache(Miko) for another.

 

[Rudy's Curve]

There are some people saying that they are cutting Grimes to bring in Pacman Jones. Talk about trading one headache(Miko) for another.

Jones has been on pretty good behavior for the last six years and has a very good relationship with Vance Joseph. Obviously Miami presents a few more obstacles than Cincinnati but his reputation as a headache is pretty outdated.

 

[sodenj5]

Miami is rumored to be looking at a trade for Byron Maxwell. On it's surface, it sounds like a terrible idea, but considering Grimes is on his way out the door, Maxwell's contract is structured so they would essentially be paying him 8.5 million in 2016 and they can cut him after that without any issues.

It'll be interesting to see how it unfolds. Maxwell isn't amazing, but he's also not as bad as he was last year. He's at his best in a Cover 3 playing zone coverage, and the Eagles had him playing a lot of man defense. Maxwell isn't a shutdown, man-to-man DB.

Also interesting to note that both Jones and Leon Hall are FAs and they have an obvious connection to Vance Joseph. Miami may very well bring in two veteran guys and draft a third corner to start rebuilding that secondary. Neither Jones or Hall would figure to break the bank, but either should provide competent play, which is something Miami has lacked outside of Grimes in their DBs.

UPDATE: Just read that Schefter is saying Miami looking to acquire both Maxwell and Kiko Alonso. Alonso would be a much better get than Maxwell to me.

 

[sodenj5]

Let's just assume that for a second Miami gets Alonso, who's owed less than 1 million this year. Alonso would shift back inside in Miami's 4-3, where he had his success in Buffalo's defense. Misi would shift back to SLB, which is his best position, and Jenkins could remain at WLB. Alonso is still young enough where if his health problems are behind him, he can be a significant acquisition for the Dolphins.

 

[Rudy's Curve]

Hall would be an excellent addition as a slot corner if they're able to acquire Maxwell. He's still outstanding there (maybe the best in the league at reading bubble screens) but between his age (31) and injury history (two torn Achilles'), he'd probably be a liability if forced to play on the outside again.

 

[RedOctober3829]

Jones has been on pretty good behavior for the last six years and has a very good relationship with Vance Joseph. Obviously Miami presents a few more obstacles than Cincinnati but his reputation as a headache is pretty outdated.

As you saw in the playoffs this past year, he is still a threat to do something stupid at any time.

 

[Rudy's Curve]

As you saw in the playoffs this past year, he is still a threat to do something stupid at any time.

Notwithstanding the fact that it never should've even gotten to that point, I'd really hate to sign a top 10-15 CB at likely less than market value because he might do something stupid. What a terrible signing that would be for Miami.

 

[sodenj5]

I'm holding my breath for the compensation.

 

[Trlicek's Whip]

Yeah the trade on its face may not be terrible, but if Tanny is being Tanny and they are mortgaging their future for these FA deals, I'm not positive they're close enough to GFIN to be losing draft picks.

 

[sodenj5]

Yeah the trade on its face may not be terrible, but if Tanny is being Tanny and they are mortgaging their future for these FA deals, I'm not positive they're close enough to GFIN to be losing draft picks.

Taking on Maxwell's contract, they can't be giving up anything higher than a third rounder. If Alonso is healthy and plays like he did in Buffalo's 4-3, he fills the biggest void in Miami's defense for the last several years and they get a competent starter in Maxwell. No way Miami can do that with a third rounder this year.

If we're talking a second rounder or any combination of picks equivalent or higher, then I start to hesitate.

 

[sodenj5]

My guess at the compensation is a 2016 4th rounder and conditional pick in 2017 based on Alonso's playing time.

 

[RedOctober3829]

Notwithstanding the fact that it never should've even gotten to that point, I'd really hate to sign a top 10-15 CB at likely less than market value because he might do something stupid. What a terrible signing that would be for Miami.

And when it blows up in Miami's face, as most things tend to do down there, they won't have anyone to blame but themselves by signing him.

 

[Rudy's Curve]

And when it blows up in Miami's face, as most things tend to do down there, they won't have anyone to blame but themselves by signing him.

Thank god a message boarder relying on outdated memes knows it'll blow up. We can all move on now.

 

[Ed Hillel]

Byron Maxwell is awful and has a crappy contract, I don't really think it's controversial to predict he will continue to stink. Alslonso is defintely worth a shot, given the money and upside, though he probably won't make it through the year. As it pertains to Maxwell, though, fhe Eagles should be the ones giving up picks. Maybe they'll eat part of his contract?

 

[Clears Cleaver]

It's a late round pick. 6th or 7th

They are replacing grimes and his contract with maxwell and his. Maxwell is five years younger and neither he nor Alonso will hurt them in 2017 cap wise.

I read that maxwell plays best in a zone and philly had him lay man. I have no clue what the new DC plays. Anyone?

 

[Clears Cleaver]

Dup post

 

[Oil Can Dan]

It's a late round pick. 6th or 7th

Are you sure of that?

 

[Clears Cleaver]

Are you sure of that?

No, but sun sentinel implied it was a late round pick. Others suggested it might be a swap of picks.

Supposedly redoing maxwell's contract. And Alonso has to pass a physical, which is no lock.

 

[Oil Can Dan]

No, but sun sentinel implied it was a late round pick. Others suggested it might be a swap of picks.

Supposedly redoing maxwell's contract. And Alonso has to pass a physical, which is no lock.

Would you be happier with Miami giving up a 6th or 7th, or Miami giving up #8 overall for #13 overall, a 4th and the players?

 

[Clears Cleaver]

Would you be happier with Miami giving up a 6th or 7th, or Miami giving up #8 overall for #13 overall, a 4th and the players?

I guess rather get the 4th. But I have no idea on the top 10 in he draft and if Miami cold get an impact CB or Other defensive player that wouldn't be available at 13

 

[Clears Cleaver]

So they restructured Jordan Cameron as expected. Reports are Lamar Miller is gone. I really doubt Cam Wake is coming back.

If I didn't think they'd do something stupid with the $$$ they are freeing up and got younger on D and found a legit guard or two, I'd be happy. Tank the year. Don't commit long money, fix o line for once and give Gase a year w Tannehill.

More draft picks the better. Assuming they actually properly utilize them

 

[Oil Can Dan]

I don't either. The 'draft value chart' says #8 is worth 250 more points than #13, and a 4th is around 80 points. A 6th is like 20. So apparently then Kiko and Maxwell are worth 150 points (assuming the rumor is true)?

 

[sodenj5]

I would say Miami needs to stay at #8 to get an impact defender like Jack or Hargreaves. Hargreaves MIGHT slip to 13, but Ramsey, Bosa, Buckner, and Jack will all likely be gone by 13.

I would rather Miami stays there and gives up a later pick than swapping first rounders.

 

[sodenj5]

Also, if Miller is actually leaving and going to Dallas or Houston, first of all, good for him. I think he would have a monster year running behind that Dallas line and working in an offense that would actually utilize him. Secondly, guess what becomes a need? I like Ajayi and he looked good in the limited time he saw last year, but between his known knee issue and his broken ribs last year, his ability to stay on the field has to be a major question mark. That being said, his skill set would seem to fit the offense well. He's a physical runner and an outstanding receiver out of the backfield.

i think Miami goes with a cheaper veteran to come in and be the 1B with Ajayi. Matt Forte has a lot of mileage on his wheels, but he worked with Gase last year and would probably come cheaper than Miller, Doug Martin, or a higher draft pick that Miami can't afford to burn on RB.

 

[rymflaherty]

I'm so damaged I can't even begin to look at that trade objectively.
Any potential logic defaults to whomever is drafted #8 being a future Hall of Famer, drafting a mediocre lineman at #13, and Alonso and Maxwell not being with the team in 17'.

 

[sodenj5]

Would much rather have Williams at 8 million than Vernon at 12+. Williams should have a good 2-3 years left in the tank.

 

[Clears Cleaver]

Do they keep Wake? an edge rusher who is 34 coming off achilles surgery seems no brainer to let him walk, but since he's face of franchise type, maybe keep? ehhh, I thought both he and OV sucked for a large part of last year, but no one else out there really.

 

[jsinger121]

@PriscoCBS: The Dolphins let the Eagles move up 5 spots in the 1st and a fourth-round pick in the Chip dump trade? What is Tannenbaum doing to Gase?

 

[smastroyin]

Tannenbaum is doing exactly what one would expect Tannenbaum to do. This is all on Ross.

 

[sodenj5]

@PriscoCBS: The Dolphins let the Eagles move up 5 spots in the 1st and a fourth-round pick in the Chip dump trade? What is Tannenbaum doing to Gase?

 

[tims4wins]

Apparently the deal may be off due to concerns over Maxwell's shoulder

Ed Werder Verified account ‏@Edwerderespn


Source tells @mortreport and I #Dolphins-#Eagles trade involving Byron Maxwell, Kiko Alonzo may be off b/c concern Maxwell shoulder injury

 

[sodenj5]

Apparently the deal may be off due to concerns over Maxwell's shoulder

Ed Werder Verified account ‏@Edwerderespn


Source tells @mortreport and I #Dolphins-#Eagles trade involving Byron Maxwell, Kiko Alonzo may be off b/c concern Maxwell shoulder injury

Just came here to post this.

I wonder if this is legitimate or if this is Miami trying to drive the price down on the draft pick(s). Also, could they nix Maxwell and still get Alonso? Certainly a snafu with free agency a few hours away.

 

[Clears Cleaver]

I would have thought it was Kiko's knee that would have held up the deal

 

[sodenj5]

Miami removed the transition tag from OV. He's officially a goner. They'll get a comp pick for him.

Should put an end to the Cam Wake speculation. Williams and Wake will be the starting DEs and they free up 12.7 million in cap space cutting Vernon loose.

 

[Oil Can Dan]

Miami cleared Maxwell so trade back on. Seems comp is a simple swap of 1st round picks. Value between 8 & 13 seems to be anywhere from a mid-2nd to early 3rd rounder.

I hope it works out for Miami but that seems like too much to give up.

 

[sodenj5]

Miami cleared Maxwell so trade back on. Seems comp is a simple swap of 1st round picks. Value between 8 & 13 seems to be anywhere from a mid-2nd to early 3rd rounder.

I hope it works out for Miami but that seems like too much to give up.

With all the holes Miami has, they need bodies more than one really good body. IMO, moving back 5 spots in the first isn't too bad considering they're getting two starters out of it, and aren't losing any picks quantity wise. I would rather them do that than actually give up their third rounder.