2016 Cowboys: Giddyup for Elliot

[Rick Burlesons Yam Bag]

The only reason to discuss Collins is that you were grading the 2015 draft, and had not included him there. I think your grading on Gregory was a bit harsh too, but he certainly did not choose professional football over a career in theoretical physics.

I guess it is not clear to me that any of the RB options you describe were stone cold locks - I mean, everyone is a lock or bust in hindsight, sure - but Randle and McFadden SEEMED to be a pretty solid corps going into last season and I am not sure that any of the picks you cite were clearly superior to those two.

Yes, I clearly want the Cowboys to lose, but I also try to look pretty objectively at what is done well and what is not done well for each team (except for the Patriots, who I hate so much that I just say bad things about constantly with absolutely no objective thinking. I mean, why bother, right?). Looking at the Cowboy O-line, and looking at the talent the Cowboys have going into the season, if you have faith in Romo then I don't see how you can hammer their long term plan. Sitting in this same seat 16 months ago it isn't clear to me that RB was a draft need for the Cowboys. Sitting in the seat 4 months ago I think I would agree with you that the primary Cowboy desires at #4 would have been:

- Corner
- Romo replacement
- Trade down to get multiple picks
- RB

But with that said, the 2nd option was pretty much gone once the Eagles trade up, and the market for the 3rd was apparently very weak. Should they have chosen Ramsey? I think so. But I don't think that Elliot was that much worse, and in truth he seems to me to be a pick much less likely to be a bust than Ramsey.

 

[Bosoxen]

I'm not sure that I'd agree that McFadden and Randle seemed like a solid corps. There was a lot of hand-wringing over the fact that they were rolling the dice with those two. McFadden was a known injury risk and Randle was already well on his way to establishing himself a Grade A knucklehead (I don't know that anyone imagined he'd be out of the league by now, but there was fear he would face the wrath of Goodell at some point). Frankly, the only running back on the roster that didn't result in a lot of clenched butt cheeks was Lance Dunbar: he of the monumentally stupid decision to run a kickoff out from nine yards deep in the end zone, resulting in his knee exploding.

Calling that group of running backs solid feels a lot like revisionist history to me, simply based on the fact that McFadden didn't disintegrate and actually managed a really good season - all things considered.

I'm willing to concede that I may be harsh on the Gregory pick and that drafting Elliott was the best of their available choices. But I'm not going to concede that it shouldn't have even come to that. They put themselves in the position where selecting Ramsey was no longer the no-brainer it should have been.

 

[Super Nomario]

To me, the decision at #4 isn't just about Elliott vs Ramsey but also about what the options were at those positions further down in the draft. They could have taken Ramsey in the first and Derrick Henry in the second, for instance - Henry doesn't give them Elliott's value in the passing game, but he would be a monster on power and inside zone runs. Or they could have taken Ramsey in the first and Kenneth Dixon in the fourth. By the time Dallas picked in the second round, six more DBs (four more CBs) had come off the board - the sixth RB didn't get taken until late in the fourth round.

I'm interested to see what happens - maybe it creates a running attack so potent that the Cowboys offense is all-time great - but I think I would have done something else. Was Buckner an option for them? That would have been interesting.

 

[Bosoxen]

I actually would have been ok with Buckner. I preferred him over Bosa anyway. He would have been a bit of a reach but that would have addressed a more pressing need than RB.

Yes, I know you don't draft for need.

 

[Rick Burlesons Yam Bag]

I view Henry and Elliott as being two completely different entities. In truth, I think that people are a bit nervous about Alabama RBs based on the recent results. Buckner was a guy I didn't want because I think he is not fast enough to be a great DE and I am not sure he is compact enough to be a great DT.....but I could end up being 100% wrong.

I see Elliott being a guy who can be a good blocker in the spread, a good between the tackles runner and also a guy who can catch balls underneath while Dez runs riot as far as Romo can throw the ball. I think Elliott is really going to change the Dallas offense if the key parts can stay healthy.

 

[Bosoxen]

Terrell Suggs was considered too slow to be an NFL defensive end. His career turned out ok. Until, well, you know.

The Cowboys would be so lucky to have a guy who could manage 106 sacks over a 12-year career. That's not really worth the #4 pick in the draft, of course, but it's better than whiffing on a guy like Morris Claiborne.

 

[Rick Burlesons Yam Bag]

Suggs is a great comp here. I do understand that the 40 is overrated, but if we are talking pure speed, Suggs ran a 4.8-something in the combine and Buckner ran just over 5.0. Suggs was also 6'3" compared to Buckner's 6'7" and Suggs was insanely strong (there may be some deer antler mixed in there, but still).

And that, to me, matches the film. Buckner plays high, which a nearly 300 lb. guy can get away with in the PAC-12, but I don't think that he will be able to get away with it in the NFL. He is also - to me at least - too slow. If he doesn't get through his blocker with his first move he seems to struggle (sidebar.....why yes, I did watch a lot of DeForest Buckner when the Eagles had the 8th pick....why do you ask?).

Suggs was kind of a surprise given his stats. He came into a system with a great defensive coordinator and great talent around him, and he made the most of it. Buckner, to me, has some big holes in his game but he was highly regarded so it is possible that I am full of poop on this matter. But I guess I would be a little surprised if he is wildly successful as a pro. Let's see.

 

[Bosoxen]

Your video analysis notwithstanding, putting too much stock in the combine numbers is a fool's errand (Jamarcus Russell says hi). There's another comp that would suggest Buckner's measurables aren't exactly a death knell: Chris Canty. He's 6'7" and ran his 40-yard in ~5.0.

Now, if he doesn't pass the eyeball test, that's one thing. But combine numbers should be taken with a healthy grain of salt. It's what they do in the game that matters, not in a skills competition.

I am interested in seeing what Buckner winds up doing. His technique may not be all that great - and that is coachable - but from what I've seen his reflexes are top-notch. That is at least a sign of some potential. If he can overcome his speed shortcomings with his upper body, he could still manage a decent career.

 

[RedOctober3829]

 

[soxhop411]

Clarence Hill ‏@clarencehilljr 39m39 minutes agoIrving, TX
So Cowboys RB Darren McFadden fell and broke his elbow while trying to catch his falling iphone from breaking. You can't make this stuff up


OtterBoxVerified account ‏@OtterBox 5m5 minutes ago
.@dmcfadden20 We heard about your accident and would love to send you some cases so you never have to worry about catching your phone again!


@Bosoxen

 

[Bosoxen]

Weird, I didn't get the notification that the Mex signal had been activated.

What the hell was he doing? Looking up blacksmithing tips? I can't think of a surface other than cold, hard steel that would cause you to break your elbow like that.

With that said, the OtterBox troll job is fantastic.

 

[RetractableRoof]

Your video analysis notwithstanding, putting too much stock in the combine numbers is a fool's errand (Jamarcus Russell says hi). There's another comp that would suggest Buckner's measurables aren't exactly a death knell: Chris Canty. He's 6'7" and ran his 40-yard in ~5.0.

Now, if he doesn't pass the eyeball test, that's one thing. But combine numbers should be taken with a healthy grain of salt. It's what they do in the game that matters, not in a skills competition.

I am interested in seeing what Buckner winds up doing. His technique may not be all that great - and that is coachable - but from what I've seen his reflexes are top-notch. That is at least a sign of some potential. If he can overcome his speed shortcomings with his upper body, he could still manage a decent career.

If the Cowboys have proven nothing over the last few years it is that they can't do anything if Romo isn't upright and available. Nothing. If he remains the QB of choice then everything has to be viewed from the perspective of keeping him upright. Maybe a RB that is a threat out of the backfield was viewed as valuable in slowing the rush Romo receives which is a net gain - even over fortifying another high need area.

That's the only thing I can think of that makes sense (orher than Jerry loves him a star RB).

 

[Bosoxen]

It makes total sense as a GFIN move. It even makes total sense as a GFIN because the window with Romo is closing fast move. Where it starts to break down for me is when you stop to consider whether GFIN is the right move or not. On the one hand, we've seen what an offense with a healthy Romo and a powerful running game can do. On the other, we've seen how horrific that offense can be without Romo (the absence of Dez must also be considered). But since he's 36 and entering the <Archer> DANGER ZONE </Archer> the odds of this panning out are pretty long. We've seen what happens when Jerry goes balls to the wall with an aging QB.

Sure, this is a different team than it was then and there is definitely another voice in the room. But the things being done still have Jerry's fingerprints all over them and that's enough to make any Cowboys fan clench their butt cheeks.

 

[Rick Burlesons Yam Bag]

I had completely assumed that it was a GFIN move. If you don't make that move then you need to be trading up to get your QB, or invest in one of the FAs. I like Romo as a QB though, I think that he could win a SB, I really do. I hope he doesn't, but I think that when healthy he is a very good QB.

 

[Bosoxen]

I don't disagree with any of that. I'm just concerned about the long term outlook of the franchise. In many ways, they're moving in the right direction and a failed GFIN shot could derail a lot of the progress they've made. I have nightmares of Quincy Carter and Chad Hutchinson playing quarterback and I really don't want to go through that again.

But a successful GFIN shot would make that all more palatable, so I might as well buckle in for the ride.

 

[soxhop411]

@Bosoxen

 

[Bosoxen]

A GFIN pick in the first round followed by a project in the second round who may never play a down of football again in his life. That's the Cowboys' drafting strategy in a nutshell.

 

[soxfan121]

A GFIN pick in the first round followed by a project in the second round who may never play a down of football again in his life. That's the Cowboys' drafting strategy in a nutshell.

Stopped in traffic today on the highway with the windows down, I was listening to the local sports radio station. So was the guy next to me. So, when I heard this news on my car ride home today I said - "Aw fuck, Luis is gonna be so pissed."

And the guy in the next car over says "Tell Luis I said fuck the Cowboys."

So... sorry, bud.

 

[Bosoxen]

Stopped in traffic today on the highway with the windows down, I was listening to the local sports radio station. So was the guy next to me. So, when I heard this news on my car ride home today I said - "Aw fuck, Luis is gonna be so pissed."

And the guy in the next car over says "Tell Luis I said fuck the Cowboys."

So... sorry, bud.

One of these days, I'm going to buy you a beer. But before I do that, I'm going to cut you.

 

[RedOctober3829]

Cowboys' LB Rolando McClain will be suspended the first 10 games for violating the NFL’s substance abuse policy, per @toddarcher and me.

 

[LondonSox]

<<<<<shocked (not shocked)

 

[Bosoxen]

Gee, I wonder why they got him for peanuts. That's ok, they drafted this stud linebacker in the second round...oh wait.

 

[Greg29fan]

Cowboys' LB Rolando McClain will be suspended the first 10 games for violating the NFL’s substance abuse policy, per @toddarcher and me.

 

[DJnVa]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/17124913/ezekiel-elliott-dallas-cowboys-denies-domestic-assault-accusation

Dallas Cowboys running back Ezekiel Elliott has been accused of domestic violence but has denied the allegation.

A woman who claims to be Elliott's former live-in girlfriend has accused the former Ohio State star of assaulting her while they sat in a parked car early Friday morning, according to a police report filed Friday morning in Columbus, Ohio and obtained by ESPN.

 

[Greg29fan]

Mike LeslieVerified account ‏@MikeLeslieWFAA 1h1 hour ago
High-ranking #Cowboys source says that Ezekiel Elliott has messages saved on his phone proving his ex-girlfriend is trying to set him up.

 

[tims4wins]

Dave Portnoy ‏@stoolpresidente
Dave Portnoy Retweeted Ed Werder

Never assume guilt before innocence. Let the facts play out. ESPN's mantra #deflategate

Dave Portnoy added,


Ed Werder @Edwerderespn
Regarding @EzekielElliott I urge patience until more relevant facts are known. Deserves assumption of innocence, benefit of doubt until then

 

[RG33]

Dave Portnoy ‏@stoolpresidente
Dave Portnoy Retweeted Ed Werder

Never assume guilt before innocence. Let the facts play out. ESPN's mantra #deflategate

Dave Portnoy added,


Ed Werder @Edwerderespn
Regarding @EzekielElliott I urge patience until more relevant facts are known. Deserves assumption of innocence, benefit of doubt until then

Well, in Ed's defense, the Cowboys don't have a history of having players with violence towards women on their roster -- unlike the systemic history of cheating by Brady and the cheaty-cheaty-cheatriots.

 

[tims4wins]

Werder is such a troll

1. 
   Ed Werder ‏@Edwerderespn 3h3 hours ago
   Regarding @EzekielElliott I urge patience until more relevant facts are known. Deserves assumption of innocence, benefit of doubt until then
   
   190 retweets 196 likes
   
   
   
   
   
   
2. 
   
   
3. 
   Dan Schaefer ‏@HWKIDAN 2h2 hours ago
   @Edwerderespn I agree. But it's hard to hear when your network doesn't practice it for things like Deflategate.
   
   0 retweets 24 likes
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
4. 
   
   
5. 
   Ed Werder ‏@Edwerderespn 2h2 hours ago
   @HWKIDAN Is everything an example of how the #Patriots have supposedly been wronged by the world?
   
   1 retweet 4 likes
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
6. 
   
   
7. 
   Dan Schaefer ‏@HWKIDAN 2h2 hours ago
   @Edwerderespn Well, it has continued with blatant proven lies. Stop the bias & we'll stop taking offense.
   
   0 retweets 24 likes
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
8. 
   
   
9. 
   Ed Werder ‏@Edwerderespn 2h2 hours ago
   @HWKIDAN So #Patriots did nothing wrong but QB suspended four games, team paid $1M fine and lost No. 1 picks? Odd
   
   1 retweet 1 like
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
10. 
    
    
11. 
    Dan Schaefer ‏@HWKIDAN 2h2 hours ago
    @Edwerderespn So, the science means nothing including the Amicus briefs? And Goodell didn't lie about Brady's testimony?
    
    0 retweets 12 likes
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
12. 
    
    
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    Ed Werder ‏@Edwerderespn 2h2 hours ago
    @HWKIDAN Explain the accepted punishments please
    
    1 retweet 0 likes
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
14. 
    
    
15. 
    Dan Schaefer ‏@HWKIDAN 2h2 hours ago
    @Edwerderespn What choice did they have but accept them? They took it about as high as they could go appealing the whole way.
    
    0 retweets 9 likes
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
16. 
    
    
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    Ed Werder ‏@Edwerderespn 2h2 hours ago
    @HWKIDAN They had every other choice
    
    1 retweet 1 like
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
18. 
    
    
19. 
    Dan Schaefer ‏@HWKIDAN 2h2 hours ago
    @Edwerderespn Ok, you're Brady & the Pats, and you're innocent. What would you have done?
    
    0 retweets 2 likes
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
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21. 
    Ed Werder ‏@Edwerderespn 2h2 hours ago
    @HWKIDAN Fight to the absolute death to protect my integrity and legitimacy of everything I accomplished
    

 

[Rick Burlesons Yam Bag]

I guess I completely and utterly missed the part where Werder, and not the other dude, was acting like a troll.

 

[Rick Burlesons Yam Bag]

On the matter at hand, the pictures of the girlfriend are pretty bad. Let's see how this plays out. This would be shameful if he did it.

 

[Bosoxen]

Yay! Another thread gets a Deflategate derailment!

I'm with Yammer here (on both of his posts, frankly). Let's wait and see what happens. If he did it, give him the swift kick in the ass he'd deserve. If not, it doesn't matter, the verdict is already in from the court of public opinion. Such is life.

 

[RedOctober3829]

One rule of thumb for future pro athletes: Don't Date Crazy. When will they ever learn?

 

[Bosoxen]

One rule of thumb for future pro athletes young men: Don't Date Crazy. When will they ever learn?

I don't like the FTFY gag but that's really useful advice for everyone. So, yeah.

 

[BigSoxFan]

On the matter at hand, the pictures of the girlfriend are pretty bad. Let's see how this plays out. This would be shameful if he did it.

Where have you seen those pics?

 

[PC Drunken Friar]

http://deadspin.com/ezekiel-elliotts-girlfriend-posts-photos-of-bruises-cl-1784124894

 

[pappymojo]

I don't like the FTFY gag but that's really useful advice for everyone. So, yeah.

It's good advice for anyone, young/old, men/women,....

 

[Greg29fan]

More good news!

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 28m28 minutes ago
Randy Gregory had another violation of NFL’s substance abuse policy and is now facing a longer suspension, sources tell @toddarcher and me.

 

[Bosoxen]

This team, for fuck's sake, just can't get out of its own way. So this violation would carry with it a 10-game suspension, but since he has yet to serve his four-game suspension, it looks like he's out for the year. This means that he's one ill-timed joint or bong hit in the next calendar year from missing two seasons in a row. Considering he couldn't go just a few months without stepping on his own dick, I'm guessing we may have already seen the last of Randy Gregory in a Cowboys uniform.

Regardless of one's feelings about the substance abuse policy (believe me, I know most of us think it's ridiculous), he knew the deal. That he couldn't keep from getting popped for it three times in the past 16 months signals a serious problem. Which I guess is why he was sent to a treatment facility instead of training camp.

 

[Rick Burlesons Yam Bag]

This team, for fuck's sake, just can't get out of its own way. So this violation would carry with it a 10-game suspension, but since he has yet to serve his four-game suspension, it looks like he's out for the year. This means that he's one ill-timed joint or bong hit in the next calendar year from missing two seasons in a row. Considering he couldn't go just a few months without stepping on his own dick, I'm guessing we may have already seen the last of Randy Gregory in a Cowboys uniform.

Regardless of one's feelings about the substance abuse policy (believe me, I know most of us think it's ridiculous), he knew the deal. That he couldn't keep from getting popped for it three times in the past 16 months signals a serious problem. Which I guess is why he was sent to a treatment facility instead of training camp.

I can't believe that I am "Mr. Sunshine" in a Cowboys thread. Shoot me now.

Randy Gregory deserves leniency. He has a diagnosed anxiety disorder and he has reached out for help in high school, in college and now as a pro. The league needs to help a guy like this, not shit all over him. I am not rushing to judgement as yet, but I am disappointed that the league can't figure out how to do a better job with a guy who presents with these issues. Let's see how this plays out. As much as I loathe the Cowboys, I would like to see Randy Gregory get the right help and be successful in the NFL (except versus the Eagles. I hope he poops his pants on the field after Carson Wentz throws his 17th touchdown pass of the game. But, you know.....other than that).

 

[Bosoxen]

The league needs to help a guy like this, not shit all over him.

You and I both know that's not going to happen. This is a macho league where needing help is considered a sign of weakness. They don't care about helping former players whose lives are ruined by having played the game, so I don't expect them to do anything to help him. It'll be up to the team to do so.

For the record, I didn't know about his anxiety disorder. Knowing that, I'm guessing the treatment center isn't going to do much good, as it would be treating a symptom, not the cause.

 

[Oil Can Dan]

I can't believe that I am "Mr. Sunshine" in a Cowboys thread. Shoot me now.

Randy Gregory deserves leniency. He has a diagnosed anxiety disorder and he has reached out for help in high school, in college and now as a pro. The league needs to help a guy like this, not shit all over him. I am not rushing to judgement as yet, but I am disappointed that the league can't figure out how to do a better job with a guy who presents with these issues. Let's see how this plays out. As much as I loathe the Cowboys, I would like to see Randy Gregory get the right help and be successful in the NFL (except versus the Eagles. I hope he poops his pants on the field after Carson Wentz throws his 17th touchdown pass of the game. But, you know.....other than that).

I feel like I don't even know you anymore...

 

[Rick Burlesons Yam Bag]

For the record, I didn't know about his anxiety disorder. Knowing that, I'm guessing the treatment center isn't going to do much good, as it would be treating a symptom, not the cause.

It depends on how they approach his treatment. If they recognize his marijuana use as a symptom of anxiety disorder and treat the disorder with better coping mechanisms then he may have a shot. I hope he does.

 

[Rick Burlesons Yam Bag]

I feel like I don't even know you anymore...

You have no idea how dirty this all makes me feel.

 

[Granite Sox]

I have a bit of a personal attachment to Gregory; as a sophomore in high school he bumped my son (then a senior) out of the starting lineup at defensive end. As you might expect, he was unstoppable on the football field, however he's struggled with emotional issues for a while. He's not a bad guy at all, and has a good support system available to him. It sounds like he's shut them out recently, potentially contributing to his slip ups. I hope he can get straightened out personally first before attempting to establish himself as a professional.

 

[RedOctober3829]

Nice day for the Cowboys.

OXNARD, Calif. -- Dallas Cowboys linebacker Rolando McClain has yet to report to training camp, and there are real questions as to whether he will play in the NFL again.

Sources confirmed that McClain's recent 10-game suspension is not for a failed marijuana test but for an opiate commonly referred to as "purple drank" -- a combination of Sprite, cough syrup and codeine. Other sources said the suspension was not marijuana related.

....meanwhile on the field.
Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet 16s17 seconds ago
In Oxnard, CA, #Cowboys backup QB Kellen Moore was carted off with an ankle injury. His ankle is in an air cast, which can indicate a break

Gregg Rosenthal ‏@greggrosenthal 53s53 seconds ago
Jerry Jones confirms a broken ankle for Moore.

 

[Greg29fan]

come on Johnny Football!

 

[Gorton Fisherman]

Wait, the NFL has a test for purple drank? DAYUM.

 

[NDame616]

I'm guessing he had an unusual level of codeine in his system, they followed up to see if there was any medical issue and there wasn't and he got popped

 

[LondonSox]

Is that..... Mick vick's music??..

BREAKING: Dallas #Cowboys agree to terms with FA Michael #Vick to backup Tony Romo, per sources.

Hahhahahhahahah

Also are we sure this is really yammer and not a hoax?

 

[sfip]

I'm reading contradicting news about it. I'm seeing more articles and tweets saying the Cowboys aren't interested. Sorry for the garbage that came with embedding Twitter.


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cowboys?src=hash">#Cowboys</a> remain disinterested in Michael Vick. Same as it ever was. <a href="https://twitter.com/1053thefan">@1053thefan</a></p>&mdash; mike fisher ✭ (@fishsports) <a href="">August 6, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>