2016-2017 NC Hoops: Heel Turn

Drocca

darrell foster wallace
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Jul 21, 2005
17,585
Raleigh, NC
A great win. I am really surprised that headed into the first UNC/Duke game these two programs are where they are at. Duke is at 6-4 in the ACC (and there was a lot of people, including posters in this thread, that thought they'd make a run at undefeated!) while Carolina, once again, has separated itself from the pack at 9-2. One year after being one shot away from another National Championship and the story with these two programs is the same as ever: Duke has a lot of drama so gets a lot of press (Grayson's MMA style, Coach K's so-called back pain, the resting of the Freshman early in the season) while UNC wins basketball games/leagues.

A quiet sort of confidence.
 

DukeSox

absence hasn't made the heart grow fonder
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2005
11,751
lol

It would have been funny before Unc-ch executed the most outlandish cheating scandal in NCAA history
 

Drocca

darrell foster wallace
SoSH Member
Jul 21, 2005
17,585
Raleigh, NC
There are absolutely still some "gotcha" one-up-man-ship that Duke fans can hold over Carolina, I would never deny that. I'm just stunned that they all occur off the court. Duke continues to win, May - November, bringing in these (on paper at least) incredible recruiting classes and we go into the season prepared for historical greatness and then Carolina just sits alone atop the ACC while Duke tries to find it's place in the middle of the pack.

Very weird.
 

DukeSox

absence hasn't made the heart grow fonder
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2005
11,751
May - November indeed.

YEAR CHAMPION (RECORD)
2016 Villanova (35-5)
2015 Duke (35-4)
2014 Connecticut (32-8)
2013 Louisville (35-5)
2012 Kentucky (38-2)
2011 Connecticut (32-9)
2010 Duke (35-5)
 

Greg29fan

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Jul 14, 2005
20,502
NC
Yeah even I as the most ardent Carolina honk would have to admit Duke's been handling business very well on and off the court since the 09 title for Carolina, including two wins at the Dome they had no business picking up. We haven't done that at their place since JJ Redick's senior night in 06.
 

Drocca

darrell foster wallace
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Jul 21, 2005
17,585
Raleigh, NC
Yeah even I as the most ardent Carolina honk would have to admit Duke's been handling business very well on and off the court since the 09 title for Carolina, including two wins at the Dome they had no business picking up. We haven't done that at their place since JJ Redick's senior night in 06.
We beat them at Cameron Indoor for four straight years, which took place after JJ Redick's Senior night.

Duke has been great in the very recent past, you'll get no argument from me there. But this year, preseason #1 and talk of running through the ACC? Seems like a let down. I'm not a Duke fan so maybe they are content with the season thus far and I'm putting unrealistic expectations on them.
 

Greg29fan

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Jul 14, 2005
20,502
NC
We beat them at Cameron Indoor for four straight years, which took place after JJ Redick's Senior night.
I know, but that was the last time we won over there as a heavy underdog or the lower rated team. They came into the Dome and won in 2012 and last year in that scenario.
 

Drocca

darrell foster wallace
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Jul 21, 2005
17,585
Raleigh, NC
I know, but that was the last time we won over there as a heavy underdog or the lower rated team. They came into the Dome and won in 2012 and last year in that scenario.
Yeah, they do get a lot more chances as the underdog, that's for sure.
 

DukeSox

absence hasn't made the heart grow fonder
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Dec 22, 2005
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Ah yes - I loved that 2008 UNC team.

40-12.
 

Drocca

darrell foster wallace
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Jul 21, 2005
17,585
Raleigh, NC
I loved that team as well. ACC regular season champions, ACC tournament champions, Final Four.

I believe Duke made it to the second round that year. Not bad.
 

Drocca

darrell foster wallace
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Jul 21, 2005
17,585
Raleigh, NC
Hicks out tonight with a bad hamstring.

Luke Maye gets the start.

That's probably enough, unfortunately, to swing this in Duke's favor.
 

Drocca

darrell foster wallace
SoSH Member
Jul 21, 2005
17,585
Raleigh, NC
Duke pulling away.

But I am not sure they are a deep run team. They rely on the three (obviously) and Tatum is excellent in ISO but they have no inside game. None. And this is against a team without its starting PF. Wonder if they just get cold in an early round game from three and that's it.
 

garlan5

Member
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May 13, 2009
2,684
Virginia
Bilas is good at seeming unbiased but he has a smug arrogance and says very duke things. Very defensive of K.

I do like him to a degree. He's a solid commentator besides the Duke love. I guess he could be worse line being over the top like Bill Walton.
 

Drocca

darrell foster wallace
SoSH Member
Jul 21, 2005
17,585
Raleigh, NC
Bilas is good at seeming unbiased but he has a smug arrogance and says very duke things. Very defensive of K.

I do like him to a degree. He's a solid commentator besides the Duke love. I guess he could be worse line being over the top like Bill Walton.
Coach K is one of the best things about college basketball and without question the best active Coach. I think it makes sense to be "defensive of him." He hasn't done anything, to my mind, that needs defending.

Anyway, what would help Virginia is some scoring, not Duke.
 

garlan5

Member
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May 13, 2009
2,684
Virginia
Coach K is one of the best things about college basketball and without question the best active Coach. I think it makes sense to be "defensive of him." He hasn't done anything, to my mind, that needs defending.

Anyway, what would help Virginia is some scoring, not Duke.
K is a prick and there is plenty to criticism him on.


UVA is probably the most efficient offensive team in the country. We're fine. Or defense is lacking this year.

Edit, defense is also a problem for duke and Carolina.
 

garlan5

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2,684
Virginia
Anyone hear of point shaving in Miami, ?? My wife said someone texted her asking had she heard. Maybe the VT Miami game? Can't find it online
 

Drocca

darrell foster wallace
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Jul 21, 2005
17,585
Raleigh, NC
Well it certainly didn't happen in the game where they beat our asses.

Coach K's not a prick.

"Probably the most efficient offensive team in the country."

You know there are, like, stats and stuff that measure this stuff right? And they are pretty easy to look up. What site are you posting on?

UCLA is the most efficient offense in the country. UNC is 6th. Wake Forest is 12th. Duke is 13th. Virginia is 14th.
 

rhopkins2323

New Member
Mar 14, 2010
111
K is a prick and there is plenty to criticism him on.


UVA is probably the most efficient offensive team in the country. We're fine. Or defense is lacking this year.

Edit, defense is also a problem for duke and Carolina.
How is he a prick? I'm a UNC fan, but he is clearly the best coach ever. His teams play a great brand of basketball, he sends guys to the NBA, he has done great with the Olympic team.

I am sure he has had his moments of being a prick to a player, but that is what happens when you coach. His players speak highly of him. He seems to be liked by his peers. I am curious why you think this.
 

Sox and Rocks

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Apr 16, 2013
5,863
Northern Colorado
Duke pulling away.

But I am not sure they are a deep run team. They rely on the three (obviously) and Tatum is excellent in ISO but they have no inside game. None. And this is against a team without its starting PF. Wonder if they just get cold in an early round game from three and that's it.
This is spot on. Their lack of depth also becomes more problematic in a tournament with less days off between games and without their home court advantage.

Foul trouble can also be a problem for them. As the home team, they didn't have to worry about that tonight.
 

rhopkins2323

New Member
Mar 14, 2010
111
Grayson's release seems quicker tonight than any earlier game.
I noticed this too. He didn't dip his shot at all. He caught the ball in shooting pocket and found his release point pretty effortlessly. That made him tough to guard with all the screens and come arounds he came off of.
 

SumnerH

Malt Liquor Picker
Dope
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Jul 18, 2005
31,999
Alexandria, VA
How is he a prick? I'm a UNC fan, but he is clearly the best coach ever. His teams play a great brand of basketball, he sends guys to the NBA, he has done great with the Olympic team.

I am sure he has had his moments of being a prick to a player, but that is what happens when you coach. His players speak highly of him. He seems to be liked by his peers. I am curious why you think this.
He wins too much.

I'm a UNC fan in college basketball, but K is freaking amazing and is far more Belichick or Mariano Rivera when it comes to why he's hated than he is Calipari or A Rod. There are better critiques of the wizard of Westwood himself or Ray, maybe even Dean.
 

DukeSox

absence hasn't made the heart grow fonder
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Dec 22, 2005
11,751
As i've said all season, it's tough to win on the road in the ACC, no matter what. That's how you get a top tier team who has separated itself from the pack playing at a middling middle of the road team barely in the top 25 and losing by a solid 8 points. It's a topsy turvy season.
 

Drocca

darrell foster wallace
SoSH Member
Jul 21, 2005
17,585
Raleigh, NC
As i've said all season, it's tough to win on the road in the ACC, no matter what. That's how you get a top tier team who has separated itself from the pack playing at a middling middle of the road team barely in the top 25 and losing by a solid 8 points. It's a topsy turvy season.
Well done.

What's up with Bolden? He was highly touted, he's big, but he doesn't really do much.
 

DukeSox

absence hasn't made the heart grow fonder
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2005
11,751
My guess is he doesn't get the defense yet. He's a good standalone defender because of his sheer bulk, but the switching, rotations, etc - I assume he doesn't have it yet and he's not good enough on offense to hide it.
 

garlan5

Member
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May 13, 2009
2,684
Virginia
[/QUOTE]
"Probably the most efficient offensive team in the country."

You know there are, like, stats and stuff that measure this stuff right? And they are pretty easy to look up. What site are you posting on?

UCLA is the most efficient offense in the country. UNC is 6th. Wake Forest is 12th. Duke is 13th. Virginia is 14th.[/QUOTE]

Ken Pomeroy number 2 adjusted efficiency in the country. Sorry it's not straight offense efficiency, it's adjusted which is a better measurement.
 

Drocca

darrell foster wallace
SoSH Member
Jul 21, 2005
17,585
Raleigh, NC
Gotcha. Yes, they are #2 in adjusted efficiency, which takes into account offense and defense.

They are still 14th in adjusted offensive efficiency so most certainly not "probably the most offensive efficient team in the country" which is what I was responding to. And since they are 3rd overall in Defense and 14th in Offense, I will stand by my comment that what Virginia needs is more scoring.
 

Sox and Rocks

Member
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Apr 16, 2013
5,863
Northern Colorado
You say you wanna camp out for the UNC/Duke game?

Can you pass the test?

https://www.scribd.com/document/336335852/Black-Tenting-Entry-Test-2017
A few sample questions for those who didn't bother clicking on the link:

How much body paint does it take to paint your entire chest and face?

What is the proper excuse for tripping opposing players on multiple occasions?

What is the best, cherry-picked term to make the Duke program look much better than North Carolina?

How many dates/parties have you attended in your brief, pathetic life? (Hint: the less, the better your chances, so just be honest)

When players show up with pizza, will you be more excited about the food or the chance to breath the same air as your idols?

How many times per week do you embellish the UNC "cheating" scandal when discussing both programs?
 

DukeSox

absence hasn't made the heart grow fonder
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2005
11,751
A few sample questions for those who didn't bother clicking on the link:
What is the best, cherry-picked term to make the Duke program look much better than North Carolina?
"Scoreboard."
 

IdiotKicker

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Nov 21, 2005
10,816
Somerville, MA
This is just kind of how State works at this point - fire failing coach, new guy brings in 1-2 top recruiting classes, everyone gets excited, team fails to meet expectations, future recruiting classes become weaker after excitement disappears, and repeat.
 

IdiotKicker

Member
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Nov 21, 2005
10,816
Somerville, MA
Coming away with a road win against a team like UVA is a good sign going forward. Can't drop down to the level of the competition in the next couple games, especially since Syracuse has proven it can win if teams do, but Duke is pretty much in control of its destiny at this point, though I'm expecting to see 4-1 over the last five games. UNC gets UVA twice over that span as well as Louisville, but FSU has a pretty friendly schedule the rest of the way. Should be a fun couple weeks.
 

Drocca

darrell foster wallace
SoSH Member
Jul 21, 2005
17,585
Raleigh, NC
Yep, the ship is righted at Duke. That was a big time win.

At Carolina we've been dealt a potential blow to legit national title hopes with Kenny Williams being out for the season. He's not a name even most college basketball fans will know but he was incredibly important to our team. Easily the best perimeter defender (and overall defender as well) and an unselfish starter.

Now Theo Pinson breaks into the starting lineup in place of Williams. On the face, it looks like an improvement. And maybe it is. But Theo's energy off the bench was, to my mind, a better fit. He will have to work extremely hard to cut down on jump shots, taking it to the rim when the offense breaks down like he did last night at NC State (and, to be clear, he won't have wide open lanes again this year like he did last night except for maybe the first round of the ACC and the first round of the NCACC).

But most concerning to me is that he now has to play a ton of minutes and stay healthy, something he has never been able to do. Our depth, a huge advantage for us, takes a major hit. Brandon Robinson, who I like, will have to contribute meaningful minutes as well. Nate Britt now plays a more prominent role which, God love the kid, is not always a positive. He's a vet, a tenacious defender on the right guys (and entirely too small and easily abused on the wrong guys) that, like Theo, has to resist the urge to shoot jump shots. He, again like Theo, is also more careless with the ball.
 

Greg29fan

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Jul 14, 2005
20,502
NC
Gottfried canned but is finishing out the season. I'd kinda like to see them win the ACCT now LOL.