2015 Tennis Thread: the Nadal farewell tour?

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bosox4283

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jon abbey said:
19 unforced errors for Serena in the third set in 10 games. Vinci only got 11 of 30 first serves in during the third set, but Serena just kept going for her normal winners and missing.
 
Thanks for sharing. That Serena did not take advantage of the second serves is not the way to win a match. 
 

gingerbreadmann

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jon abbey said:
Disagree that Vinci played great, Serena was awful those last two sets. Even easy overheads took 2-3 extra shots to put away, and sitter after sitter she hit wide or into the net. Chris Evert said afterwards that Serena looked frozen, once she started missing attempted winners off Vinci's puffballs, she had no backup plan and Vinci made her generate all of the pace herself. Vinci didn't beat herself (although she tried at times), but just a horrendous collapse by Serena.
 
Again, I love Serena and have rooted for her in pretty much every match her whole career, but no way Navratilova or Graf blows such a big match so badly. 
 
I agree with your overall point, I just think there's something to be said for not giving up anything to your opponent. This comes up a lot in David beating Goliath matches, and it's absolutely true that Serena cracked and would/should have won comfortably if she was fully on her game -- I was just very impressed with Vinci today.
 
She stayed aggressive after losing the first set and after being broken early in the 3rd. Those points that took 2-3 overheads took great anticipation by Vinci, and she was more than happy to keep lobbing it back. I think her persistence and mistake-free play wore Serena down at a few vulnerable points when she can usually find her resolve and carry herself to victory.
 

jon abbey

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11 of 30 first serves isn't mistake-free play. Vinci gets credit for mostly not beating herself, but 95 percent of it is on Serena playing horrendously IMO.
 

gingerbreadmann

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Perhaps I should have said error-free. (And of course she wasn't totally error-free either)

So just for the sake of discussion I'm curious who you think would have actually lost to Serena today given how much fault you're ascribing to her. Would we have to go outside the top 75? 100?
 

johnmd20

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jon abbey said:
11 of 30 first serves isn't mistake-free play. Vinci gets credit for mostly not beating herself, but 95 percent of it is on Serena playing horrendously IMO.
 
So the only way Serena loses is by beating herself? This is unfair to the pluck and consistent tennis Vinci played in the last two sets. She never gave up on any point and hung around long enough to get Serena to start thinking.
 

jon abbey

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johnmd20 said:
 
So the only way Serena loses is by beating herself? This is unfair to the pluck and consistent tennis Vinci played in the last two sets. She never gave up on any point and hung around long enough to get Serena to start thinking.
 
Didn't say that at all, just talking about today. I think Azarenka could have beaten a non-choking Serena, Venus could have if she had played two sets like she played the middle one, Halep has given her trouble, I'm sure there are others. Vinci herself said she woke up today thinking she had no chance and just wanted to have fun, and she was right if an even mediocre Serena shows up.
 
People are so quick to call 'choke' in some situations, not sure what the hesitation is here, as you will not see more of a choke than that by an alltime great in a big match. That doesn't mean that worse players don't beat better players sometimes without being handed the match, of course they do. That's not what happened here, though, IMO. 
 

jon abbey

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gingerbreadmann said:
So just for the sake of discussion I'm curious who you think would have actually lost to Serena today given how much fault you're ascribing to her. Would we have to go outside the top 75? 100?
 
Hmm, I think that Vinci's style was a good fit for a Serena blowup and that someone who goes for more winners and hits harder might have made their own share of mistakes and not allowed Serena the chance to make as many of hers, which is what johnmd20 said above also. That doesn't change the fact that Serena made countless easy errors, that's all I'm talking about. Vinci might have played better if Serena had given her the chance to, but too often Serena missed quickly and the point was over.
 
I'd give Vinci more credit if her first serve percentage was better, but as my hardcore tennis fan buddy said, 11-30 on first serves by her opponent usually ends up in a 6-0 Serena set. 
 

ifmanis5

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jon abbey said:
11 of 30 first serves isn't mistake-free play. Vinci gets credit for mostly not beating herself, but 95 percent of it is on Serena playing horrendously IMO.
I only saw the third set but that is exactly what I saw.
Vinci didn't play out of her mind, wasn't covering a ton of ground or making trick-shot pinpoint winners, Serena just basically beat herself. She looked to be in slow motion, I wonder if she had a physical problem? In any event, no way can a #1 seed lose to an *unseeded* player in a semifinal of a major like that. Horrible job. #Legacy
 

jon abbey

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Dominant performances by both Djokovic and Federer, should be an awesome final on Sunday. 
 

BigMike

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Flavia Panetta with the win, and announcers her retirement during the trophy ceremony.  Pretty cool
 

wiffleballhero

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This final today really should be tremendous, even for very casual tennis fans -- people considering watching the 4pm football instead. Federer seems like the only person on the planet able to play with Djokovic right now and Federer's beating of Wawrinka was really impressive. Stan-the-man is just an incredible, great player who was made to look like a JAG. I don't know that anyone other than Djokovic could have done that and I am not sure even that Djokovic's game style would allow it.  It is also noteworthy that Federer has not dropped a set and thus has been on the court not much more than a casual rec player in the last couple weeks. He should be as fresh as possible. I don't think Djoker is worn down either, but it seems like it will be less of an issue for him anyway.
 
I predict eight SABR returns, working five times.
 
I think it goes five sets and at 7pm it will still not be clear who is going to win.
 

jon abbey

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Is this the latest start ever for a men's US Open final? really psyched.
 

NWsoxophile

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Shit. Hope RF finds his flow. He has played such beautiful tennis this Open. He's not getting much depth on the forehand so far.
 

gingerbreadmann

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Does ESPN have a camera on a drone/quadcopter? That was an amazing shot from the top of the net pulling out slowly to the very top of the stadium.
 

johnmd20

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Fed wins the tough points against Djok but can't pull off a break. He's hanging in on the Advantage Djok points, though.