2015 Tennis Thread: the Nadal farewell tour?

  • Thread starter MentalDisabldLst
  • Start date

Sportsbstn

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 8, 2004
8,794
this is fantastic tennis.   Sometimes people forget exactly how good Novak is.   Great match
 

semsox

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 14, 2004
1,484
Charlottesville
Not going to lie, I had written "Sigh" in the quick reply box at 4-6, ready to enter it as soon as Federer lost the tiebreak. Unbelievable tennis.
 

Infield Infidel

teaching korea american
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
11,463
Meeting Place, Canada
The organizers want as much as possible to keep it an outdoor event. Conditions change a lot with the roof closed. I wish they went with an umbrella roof like Safeco but retrofitting might have made that difficult
 

Apisith

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 19, 2007
2,293
Bangkok
Ed Hillel said:
If you know rain is coming...close the roof?
 
They got criticism for closing the roof too quickly the first year they had it so now they're erring the opposite way. It's to preserve Wimbledon's tradition that it's an outdoor tournament. Closing the roof turns it into an indoor tournament and traditionalists criticised the organisers for it.
 

ifmanis5

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 29, 2007
34,154
Rotten Apple
Edberg looks like he hasn't aged a day. Becker looks like his own grandpa. And there was Anna Wintour sitting alone between them.
 

Apisith

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 19, 2007
2,293
Bangkok
He's hanging on but he's struggling in his service games and Novak is looking really comfortable on his. Very improbable that he survives to see a fifth.
 

Deathofthebambino

Drive Carefully
SoSH Member
Apr 12, 2005
30,186
I can't remember the last time I watched tennis for an extended length of time, but I was laying around this morning with an empty house (heaven) and happened upon the finals as it started.  I had time to watch the first two sets, and man, all I can say is wow.  Some of the greatest athletes at the top of their game you will ever see.  I imagine most of the sports world is like me and really doesn't watch a ton of tennis, but we really should.  The game has changed so much in the past 20 years, kind of like golf, that it's almost impossible to believe some of the shots these guys hit.  I remember when it was a big deal for someone to break 100mph with a serve, and now, they are hitting 115-120 on average, and it's being returned. Nearly every point features a shot that's virtually impossible for the average human to even get to, never mind return with the force these guys are able to muster.  It was really, really fucking impressive.  
 
Seemed pretty obvious to me though, that even though Federer was able shake off 6 set points in the 2nd set tiebreak, he was really just hanging on against a guy that wasn't making mistakes.  Federer wasn't making a lot of mistakes either, but it seemed like the only way Roger was able to get a point was when he literally made a perfect shot or serve, because anything else was absolutely blistered by Novak, with ease.  Having guys like Edberg and Becker coaching is also a really cool changing of the guard type of deal.  I truly enjoyed that this morning, and I taped it for my 7 year old son, who is just now starting to take tennis lessons.  
 

Deweys Stache

Well-Known Member
Bronze Supporter
SoSH Member
Jan 6, 2009
345
NYC
Deathofthebambino said:
I can't remember the last time I watched tennis for an extended length of time, but I was laying around this morning with an empty house (heaven) and happened upon the finals as it started.  I had time to watch the first two sets, and man, all I can say is wow.  Some of the greatest athletes at the top of their game you will ever see.  I imagine most of the sports world is like me and really doesn't watch a ton of tennis, but we really should.  The game has changed so much in the past 20 years, kind of like golf, that it's almost impossible to believe some of the shots these guys hit.  I remember when it was a big deal for someone to break 100mph with a serve, and now, they are hitting 115-120 on average, and it's being returned. Nearly every point features a shot that's virtually impossible for the average human to even get to, never mind return with the force these guys are able to muster.  It was really, really fucking impressive.  
 
Seemed pretty obvious to me though, that even though Federer was able shake off 6 set points in the 2nd set tiebreak, he was really just hanging on against a guy that wasn't making mistakes.  Federer wasn't making a lot of mistakes either, but it seemed like the only way Roger was able to get a point was when he literally made a perfect shot or serve, because anything else was absolutely blistered by Novak, with ease.  Having guys like Edberg and Becker coaching is also a really cool changing of the guard type of deal.  I truly enjoyed that this morning, and I taped it for my 7 year old son, who is just now starting to take tennis lessons.  
I'm a pretty hardcore tennis fan. I watch the majors, go to the US Open every year and try to catch some of the smaller tournaments as well. You are absolutely right that the game has changed so. The athleticism these guys display is mind blowing. The shot making is so powerful and quick. The game has transformed into a much faster pace, power game and these guys have to make the mental adjustments needed for that. I grew up watching Connors, Mac and Lendl in the 80's and it's just amazing how it's changed. I love the game now.
 
And as a huge Fed fan I felt exactly the way you described it. He was hanging on. I don't think anyone would have hung in there yesterday like he did. But ultimately he made too many unforced errors and his 1st serve percentage went way down from how well he was serving the entire tournament. Much of that due to Novak's greatness. I would love to see this Novak play prime Fed. Now that would be epic.
 

BigMike

Dope
Dope
Sep 26, 2000
21,383
Roger had every opportunity to win the first set, but gave it away with a couple poor shots at poor times.   Honestly had he won the first set,  and still pulled off the tiebreaker in the second, he probably just would have lost in 5 sets.
 
What Roger has done at his age is amazing.   He is still a top 3 player in the world,  but there are 4-6 guys out there now who Roger needs to be almost perfect against to be able to beat,   and perfection is hard and doing it twice in a row is harder.
 
Djokovic is a machine.  He will probably get up to the 13-15 majors won range.  
 

semsox

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 14, 2004
1,484
Charlottesville
I'd be pretty surprised if Novak got to 13. FiveThirtyEight ran an article about a year ago discussing the aging curve in tennis and such, and it is a pretty stark read. (link: http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/happy-birthday-nadal-youre-probably-too-old-to-pass-federer/). I was watching the ESPN3 feed yesterday, and numerous times they mentioned that Novak was in his prime, but historically it's much more likely he's already in the tail-end of his career. He just turned 28 in May and currently has 9 GS's. I would say he's the favorite for both the US Open and then next year's Aussie Open, but after that who knows. Even Federer, who is a historical anomaly in his longevity and likely the GOAT has only won 2 majors after turning 28 (and one was the Aussie Open about 4 months after he turned 28). While Djokovic looks nigh-unstoppable right now, to win even a few more majors would put him in historically unique territory.
 

BigMike

Dope
Dope
Sep 26, 2000
21,383
I would agree,  but the reason I think he may win 4-6 more is the shocking lack of development from the next generation.   Cilic and Del Potro are GS champions who are younger, but only a year younger.    And most of the competition at the top is still older than Novak
 
Even guys like Raonic and Nishakori are already mid 20s and past the point where special players normally take the step up. Now maybe Krygios or Coric  will explode next year and shoot to the top of the rankings
 
I just see a tennis world where barring a major injury it looks likely that Novak will stay #1 for another 18-36 months,  which means he will likely enter another 5-10 GS as  the favorite.
 

kenneycb

Hates Goose Island Beer; Loves Backdoor Play
SoSH Member
Dec 2, 2006
12,548
Tuukka's refugee camp
The above made me curious so I just looked it up and, of the last 47 majors, the non-Big 4 have won 5 players (Gaudio, Safin, del Potro, Wawrinka for 2, Cilic).  Hell, you throw Murray's 2 into that group and it's 6 players and only 8 of the last 48 majors not won by Nadal, Djokovic or Federer.  From a cursory look, the closest thing looks to be the Borg and McEnroe era and that's not really even close.  It's just pretty damn absurd.
 

epraz

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 15, 2002
5,685
BigMike said:
I would agree,  but the reason I think he may win 4-6 more is the shocking lack of development from the next generation.   Cilic and Del Potro are GS champions who are younger, but only a year younger.    And most of the competition at the top is still older than Novak
 
Even guys like Raonic and Nishakori are already mid 20s and past the point where special players normally take the step up. Now maybe Krygios or Coric  will explode next year and shoot to the top of the rankings
 
I just see a tennis world where barring a major injury it looks likely that Novak will stay #1 for another 18-36 months,  which means he will likely enter another 5-10 GS as  the favorite.
 
I see what you're saying, but right after the Australian Open in 2010, Federer was 28 turning 29, and had won 3 of the last 4 grand slams. Nadal, his only top competition, was dominant on clay but had only won 2 GS on other surfaces.  Djokovic was 22, had won the Australian the previous year and was ranked highly, but people questioned his makeup and whether he could compete with Federer or Nadal. It wasn't at all clear that he was about to vault himself into the clear best player in the world he is today.  These things have a way of turning.
 

Deweys Stache

Well-Known Member
Bronze Supporter
SoSH Member
Jan 6, 2009
345
NYC
I think Djokavic at least gets to Nadal's 14. If he wins the US Open he's at 10. He still has at least 2-3 years of prime play IMO. Barring injury of course, say conservatively he wins 2 titles the next 2 years and wins this years US Open he'll be at 14 (Nadal's total now). I think anywhere from 5-8 more titles is a reasonable estimate.
 

BigMike

Dope
Dope
Sep 26, 2000
21,383
epraz said:
 
I see what you're saying, but right after the Australian Open in 2010, Federer was 28 turning 29, and had won 3 of the last 4 grand slams. Nadal, his only top competition, was dominant on clay but had only won 2 GS on other surfaces.  Djokovic was 22, had won the Australian the previous year and was ranked highly, but people questioned his makeup and whether he could compete with Federer or Nadal. It wasn't at all clear that he was about to vault himself into the clear best player in the world he is today.  These things have a way of turning.
 
Yes and no,  Nadal was a clay court Champion who had raised his game on every surface to the point where he was an incredibly difficult out on any surface, pushing Roger on his best surfaces even when losing.    And Djoker while having some epic meltdowns had surely showed the talent level was as good as anyone for as long as he stayed mentally tough in the match.
 
Has Nishakori or Raonic showed that? I don't think so. Has someone like Tomic given any reason to believe he can be that 22 year old who lives in the final 4 for the next 5 years?
 
I think we are exiting the greatest generation the game has ever seen, and Novak has the advantage of being the youngest and healthiest of that group.   I suspect he will stay at #1 through all of 2016, and very good chance 2017, which means that while he is beatable, he is going to enter every major for the next 2-3 years as favorite or at least co favorite.
 
I guess the question with Djoker is will the passion wane.  He has the family now. Maybe he will get comfortable and lose some of the anger and competitiveness
 

jsinger121

@jsinger121
SoSH Member
BigMike said:
 
Yes and no,  Nadal was a clay court Champion who had raised his game on every surface to the point where he was an incredibly difficult out on any surface, pushing Roger on his best surfaces even when losing.    And Djoker while having some epic meltdowns had surely showed the talent level was as good as anyone for as long as he stayed mentally tough in the match.
 
Has Nishakori or Raonic showed that? I don't think so. Has someone like Tomic given any reason to believe he can be that 22 year old who lives in the final 4 for the next 5 years?
 
I think we are exiting the greatest generation the game has ever seen, and Novak has the advantage of being the youngest and healthiest of that group.   I suspect he will stay at #1 through all of 2016, and very good chance 2017, which means that while he is beatable, he is going to enter every major for the next 2-3 years as favorite or at least co favorite.
 
I guess the question with Djoker is will the passion wane.  He has the family now. Maybe he will get comfortable and lose some of the anger and competitiveness
I think Djoker will still be motivated to win the French to complete a career grand slam. Until he wins that I don't see let up in him.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Dope
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
41,928
Nick Krygios seems to be the craziest tennis player I can remember, very entertaining:
 
"On Wednesday, Nick Kyrgios pulled a real dick move in the middle of his Rogers Cup match against Stan Wawrinka, For some inexplicable reason, Kyrgios decided to walk over to Wawrinka during the second round and tell him that another tennis player named Thanasi Kokkinakis "banged his girlfriend.""
 
http://www.complex.com/sports/2015/08/nick-kyrgios-tells-stan-wawrinka-thanasi-kokkinakis-banged-his-girlfriend
 

Deweys Stache

Well-Known Member
Bronze Supporter
SoSH Member
Jan 6, 2009
345
NYC
Did anyone see Federer beat Joker in the Cincy final? Vintage Fed. Fed was the aggressor and threw a couple new wrinkles at Joker. I can't get over how effortless he still moves. His forehand looked real crisp and he seemed to be playing with a ton of confidence. Gives me hope for him at the US Open. Hopefully he's in the opposite draw from Joker again so they wouldn't meet until the finals.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Dope
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
41,928
All of the top 10 players in Serena's half are already out: #3 Sharapova (withdrew), #7 Ivanovic (lost today), #8 Pliskova (destroyed today, 6-2, 6-1). Also Sloane Stephens would have been the seed she faced in the third round, but she just lost also. 
 
There are still tough players in the top half: Bencic, Venus, Radwanska, but that's about it.
 

Infield Infidel

teaching korea american
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
11,463
Meeting Place, Canada
Weird end for Marty Fish vs. Feliciano Lopez. 5th set, 3-3, deuce, Lopez serving, Fish asked for the trainer because of leg cramps, the trainer isn't in the stadium, trainer doesn't show up for about 15 minutes, by then Lopez finished the match 6-3
 

gingerbreadmann

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 11, 2008
658
That sucks for Fish. Fortunately overall the Americans are holding their own so far on both sides (despite many having to play each other already). Ram and Sock treading water today and Isner in action tonight.

Elsewhere, Wimbledon finalist Gabine Muguruza on the verge of a second round loss to a Brit, and Stan has his hands full with a Korean teenager. Would love nothing more than to see him be the first elite man to fall but it's probably still a longshot.
 

gingerbreadmann

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 11, 2008
658
Infield Infidel said:
Murray is down 2 sets to 0, it's been competitive but he's really looked nervy
 
Seems to have regained his composure since this point, now down 2-1 and up a break in the 4th. Mannarino is a lot of fun to watch, he's had Murray sprinting all over the court.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Dope
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
41,928
Wozniacki and Muguruza out today, so only three of the top 10 women make the third round (Serena, Halep, Kvitova).
 

Infield Infidel

teaching korea american
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
11,463
Meeting Place, Canada
Venus Williams played much better today, against a player who has been playing well coming into the tourney. Benicia won in Canada, beating Serena on the way.

Fun facts: Venus turned pro almost 3 years before Bencic was born. And played her first GS final against Bencic's coach, Martina Hingis, who is a couple months younger than Venus
 

gingerbreadmann

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 11, 2008
658
Nadal-Fognini is turning into a classic. Nadal 151-0 at slams when up by 2 sets but headed into a 5th right now
 

gingerbreadmann

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 11, 2008
658
That was easily the match of the tournament and probably the best match I've ever seen where none of the sets took 7 games to win. Incredible stuff. Gotta feel for Rafa though