2015 NBA Draft Thread-Choke For Oak?

nighthob · Oct 9, 2014

I think Cauley-Stein has a better shot at being a PF than Towns does. I love Towns, and I think he's going to be the best C in the draft. But mobility wise he needs to be defending the post.

Auger34 · Oct 10, 2014

Going to add a few more names to this just for people who like paying attention to this sort of thing..
Myles Turner, TEX
Kelly Oubre, KAN
Cliff Alexander, KAN
Stanley Johnson, ARI
Kristaps Porzingis, Latvia
Justise Winslow, Duke

Brickowski · Oct 10, 2014

nighthob said:
I think Cauley-Stein has a better shot at being a PF than Towns does. I love Towns, and I think he's going to be the best C in the draft. But mobility wise he needs to be defending the post.

I don't think Cauley-Stein has much of a shot at being an NBA player at any position.

fairlee76 · Oct 10, 2014

Brickowski said:
I don't think Cauley-Stein has much of a shot at being an NBA player at any position.

I'm with you on this. Unless Cauley-Stein makes a major offensive leap this season, I see him being a "project" guy who might develop into an end of rotation big.

I'm really excited to see Okafor play at the college level.

nighthob · Oct 10, 2014

Given that most NBA teams use the C spot as a defensive rather than an offensive spot, I think Cauley-Stein has very little to worry about. Especially when he has the size and length to guard the post and the mobility to flash out on the perimeter. He'll be fine.

HomeRunBaker · Oct 10, 2014

Kliq said:
You guys couldn't be more wrong about Cauley-Stein. He is a legitimate 7 footer with really good athleticism, can set screens and catch a lob, can run the floor and block shots. There will always be a place in the league for a guy with that skill set. At the ground level, I see him turning into Brandan Wright.

I could write a book refuting the two posts above yours but you have the gist of it. I will stress his ability to defend to the 3-point line as an already elite show defender and include that WCS does have a good touch around the basket and a soft face up touch. The UK system isn't predicated on low post offense as even Anthony Davis rarely had his number called. WCS is about as much of a certainty of being a long-term rotation or better big than anyone in these past two drafts.

fairlee76 · Oct 10, 2014

Kliq said:
You guys couldn't be more wrong about Cauley-Stein. He is a legitimate 7 footer with really good athleticism, can set screens and catch a lob, can run the floor and block shots. There will always be a place in the league for a guy with that skill set. At the ground level, I see him turning into Brandan Wright.

If Brandan Wright is your example, I don't think we disagree. He played 18 minutes a game last season, 9 points, 5 boards, and a block. If anything, I think Cauley-Stein puts up better rebounding and block numbers very quickly upon entering the league. It is his offensive game that I would worry about. Barring improvement on that front, I don't see him as anything other than a rotation guy. Which is great, but he is not someone I would be overly excited about the Celtics drafting.

Brickowski · Oct 10, 2014

Cauley-Stein has no discernible offensive skills. His one positive attribute is his good lateral mobility for a 7 footer. Dwayne Jones also had excellent lateral mobility for a center (and no offensive skills) so I would expect Cauley-Stein to have a similar NBA career.

nighthob · Oct 10, 2014

fairlee76 said:
If Brandan Wright is your example, I don't think we disagree. He played 18 minutes a game last season, 9 points, 5 boards, and a block. If anything, I think Cauley-Stein puts up better rebounding and block numbers very quickly upon entering the league. It is his offensive game that I would worry about. Barring improvement on that front, I don't see him as anything other than a rotation guy. Which is great, but he is not someone I would be overly excited about the Celtics drafting.

You do disagree, radically, as he posited Wright as WCS's floor, while you were positing it as a best case scenario.

fairlee76 · Oct 10, 2014

nighthob said:
You do disagree, radically, as he posited Wright as WCS's floor, while you were positing it as a best case scenario.

I was reading "ground level" to mean "upon entry into the league." If Kliq is using "ground level" as a new way to express "floor" then I mis-interpreted that.

My stating that WCS is going to be a rotation guy who puts up better rebounding and block numbers than Wright is pretty close to what he said. End of rotation is 7th/9th man territory. Barring offensive improvement that is where I see WCS fitting. Hopefully he develops on the other end and proves me wrong.

HomeRunBaker · Oct 10, 2014

Brickowski said:
Cauley-Stein has no discernible offensive skills. His one positive attribute is his good lateral mobility for a 7 footer. Dwayne Jones also had excellent lateral mobility for a center (and no offensive skills) so I would expect Cauley-Stein to have a similar NBA career.

I am not being obtuse but I have to ask how much you've seen UK play last season. He can and has scored with his back to the basket with either hand. The UK offense rarely sees the ball go to the low post.....this is why Davis scored just 12 ppg in 34 minutes with at least half of those from the line and from collecting garbage.

nighthob · Oct 10, 2014

Brickowski said:
Cauley-Stein has no discernible offensive skills. His one positive attribute is his good lateral mobility for a 7 footer. Dwayne Jones also had excellent lateral mobility for a center (and no offensive skills) so I would expect Cauley-Stein to have a similar NBA career.

I have to say, I love the fact that Cauley-Stein, who has excellent lateral mobility and speed, full stop, has "good lateral mobility for a 7 footer", while the 6'8" 245lb guy whose lateral mobility was a cunt hair's over average for a seven footer has suddenly developed into the new Ben Wallace in that regard. Here's the reality, even with his slightly above average mobility, if Dwayne Jones had actually been seven feet tall, he might have lasted. But when you're 6'8" and Marcin Gortat is blowing by you, your NBA career isn't going to be a long one. These will not be problems for WCS.

fairlee76 · Oct 10, 2014

HomeRunBaker said:
I am not being obtuse but I have to ask how much you've seen UK play last season. He can and has scored with his back to the basket with either hand. The UK offense rarely sees the ball go to the low post.....this is why Davis scored just 12 ppg in 34 minutes with at least half of those from the line and from collecting garbage.

Picking nits here, but Davis scored 14 points a game (leading the team) on an absolutely loaded squad (five guys in double figures). Were he on a less-loaded team in college, no doubt that number goes way up.

Brickowski · Oct 10, 2014

Dwayne Jones was 6-1, 250, and always played hard, even though he lacked offensive skills. Cauley-Stein, on the other hand, is passive and disappears half the time. The best thing that happened to Cauley-Stein last year was getting injured before the tournament so that people couldn't see how bad he really is.

I watched Kentucky 4-5 times last year (how could anyone help it, they were on TV so much), and Cauley-Stein was underwhelming every time.

Kentucky's best player during the second half of the year was James Young, and there was no close second.

nighthob · Oct 10, 2014

fairlee76 said:
I was reading "ground level" to mean "upon entry into the league." If Kliq is using "ground level" as a new way to express "floor" then I mis-interpreted that.

My stating that WCS is going to be a rotation guy who puts up better rebounding and block numbers than Wright is pretty close to what he said. End of rotation is 7th/9th man territory. Barring offensive improvement that is where I see WCS fitting. Hopefully he develops on the other end and proves me wrong.

When the slow footed Kendrick Perkins, whose offensive game is more noted for being offensive than effective, is still logging 20 minutes a night, and when a title contender is playing two guys at the C spot 34 minutes a night whose combined offensive output is less than Brandan Wright's then no, Willie Cauley-Stein isn't an "end of the bench player". And this opinion of yours is a vast revision of your first statement "I see him being a "project" guy who might develop into an end of rotation big." So, yes, you have a pretty radical disagreement when one of you sees his floor as a rotation big and the other one of you sees the most optimistic case being that he eventually develops into a 4th/5th big man.

HomeRunBaker · Oct 10, 2014

fairlee76 said:
Picking nits here, but Davis scored 14 points a game (leading the team) on an absolutely loaded squad (five guys in double figures). Were he on a less-loaded team in college, no doubt that number goes way up.

The system is the system and UK was loaded last season too. It will be interesting to see if/how Calipari changes his offense this year.....I'd imagine he has to, no?

nighthob · Oct 10, 2014

Brickowski said:
Dwayne Jones was 6-1, 250, and always played hard, even though he lacked offensive skills. Cauley-Stein, on the other hand, is passive and disappears half the time. The best thing that happened to Cauley-Stein last year was getting injured before the tournament so that people couldn't see how bad he really is.

Dwayne Jones measured out at 6'8" in his bare feet and 6'10" in sneakers with a standing reach of 9' at the NBA pre-draft camp if memory serves. If he had anything beyond "typical undersized college C" on his resume, he might have lasted. But for an undersized C he was quite slow. Charlie Villanueva, for example, who was taller and longer, blew Jones out of the water on the lateral quickness tests. And, unlike Jones, actually could play the PF spot defensively.

fairlee76 · Oct 10, 2014

nighthob said:
When the slow footed Kendrick Perkins, whose offensive game is more noted for being offensive than effective, is still logging 20 minutes a night, and when a title contender is playing two guys at the C spot 34 minutes a night whose combined offensive output is less than Brandan Wright's then no, Willie Cauley-Stein isn't an "end of the bench player". And this opinion of yours is a vast revision of your first statement "I see him being a "project" guy who might develop into an end of rotation big." So, yes, you have a pretty radical disagreement when one of you sees his floor as a rotation big and the other one of you sees the most optimistic case being that he eventually develops into a 4th/5th big man.

Fuck me, that was my bad. Not my intent to type that - I blame Friday afternoon.

HomeRunBaker · Oct 10, 2014

Brickowski said:
Dwayne Jones was 6-1, 250, and always played hard, even though he lacked offensive skills. Cauley-Stein, on the other hand, is passive and disappears half the time. The best thing that happened to Cauley-Stein last year was getting injured before the tournament so that people couldn't see how bad he really is.

I watched Kentucky 4-5 times last year (how could anyone help it, they were on TV so much), and Cauley-Stein was underwhelming every time.

Kentucky's best player during the second half of the year was James Young, and there was no close second.

That explains a lot then......you saw like 12-14% of WCS's games last year. Do you feel like you could have missed something in the other 85%+?

nighthob · Oct 10, 2014

fairlee76 said:
Fuck me, that was my bad. Not my intent to type that - I blame Friday afternoon.

OK then, my point is that when underwhelming college big man Steven Adams is nigh on untouchable for his ability to guard the post, guys like WCS have an NBA future. The reality is that most college bigs are underwhelming because that's the way the game is refereed and played (EDIT: at the NCAA level). But WCS has already shown the ability to play both big man defensive roles, and that's valuable.

Brickowski · Oct 10, 2014

HomeRunBaker said:
That explains a lot then......you saw like 12-14% of WCS's games last year. Do you feel like you could have missed something in the other 85%+?

Who knows? It's not as if his offensive numbers were all that impressive, and presumably those reflect all the games he played. 6.8 ppg and 6.1 rebounds in 23 mpg are not the kind of numbers that shout "lottery pick!"

If he had done that in the Spanish ACB playing against men instead of college boys I'd be slightly more impressed.

HomeRunBaker · Oct 10, 2014

Brickowski said:
Who knows? It's not as if his offensive numbers were all that impressive, and presumably those reflect all the games he played. 6.8 ppg and 6.1 rebounds in 23 mpg are not the kind of numbers that shout "lottery pick!"

If he had done that in the Spanish ACB playing against men instead of college boys I'd be slightly more impressed.

Davis' 14/10 in 34 mpg in same system don't shout future HOF either unless you view the performance within the context of the games. Sadly I may have missed less than 50% of UK games the past two seasons. I've seen the skills that you claim don't exist. Obviously I'm very confident in my view of this player. We shall see.

nighthob · Oct 10, 2014

Brickowski said:
Who knows? It's not as if his offensive numbers were all that impressive, and presumably those reflect all the games he played. 6.8 ppg and 6.1 rebounds in 23 mpg are not the kind of numbers that shout "lottery pick!"

If he had done that in the Spanish ACB playing against men instead of college boys I'd be slightly more impressed.

Weirdly enough that's pretty much Steven Adam's college production, and he's nigh on untouchable in trade. Mostly because he profiles as an effective post defender.

Grin&MartyBarret · Oct 10, 2014

nighthob said:
Weirdly enough that's pretty much Steven Adam's college production, and he's nigh on untouchable in trade. Mostly because he profiles as an effective post defender.

Adams is also a month younger and two years ahead of Cauley-Stein on the development curve.

Brickowski · Oct 10, 2014

But post defense isn't Cauley-Stein's forte. It's his quickness on the perimeter (for a 7 footer) that may make him attractive to NBA teams. Adams is stronger and heavier.

Also, Cauley-Stein is 22 years old and will be 23 on draft day and hasn't improved since his freshman year. He's only a month younger than Adams, who will be starting his second season in the NBA. Adams is not a good comparison.

nighthob · Oct 10, 2014

Grin&MartyBarret said:
Adams is also a month younger and two years ahead of Cauley-Stein on the development curve.

One, Adams is a month older, not younger, and I think you mean will be as this will be his second season. But Adams also has no offensive game to speak of. At all. Not even a little bit. But in this day and age where teams prefer defense out of the C spot he's untouchable. Because he profiles as a post defender. Cauley-Stein can still do both chores, and no matter how much people cry that's still an extremely valuable skill for a big man to have.

Brickowski said:
But post defense isn't Cauley-Stein's forte. It's his quickness on the perimeter (for a 7 footer) that may make him attractive to NBA teams. Adams is stronger and heavier.

Not as much as you think. Cauley-Stein's value lies in his ability to play both big man spots defensively.

Brickowski said:
Also, Cauley-Stein is 22 years old and will be 23 on draft day and hasn't improved since his freshman year. He's only a month younger than Adams, who will be starting his second season in the NBA. Adams is not a good comparison.

At least GMB was only aging WCS two months, you've catapulted him a year forward in time. He will not turn 22 until next August. A month after the "superior" Steven Adams will.

Grin&MartyBarret · Oct 10, 2014

nighthob said:
One, Adams is a month older, not younger, and I think you mean will be as this will be his second season. But Adams also has no offensive game to speak of. At all. Not even a little bit. But in this day and age where teams prefer defense out of the C spot he's untouchable. Because he profiles as a post defender. Cauley-Stein can still do both chores, and no matter how much people cry that's still an extremely valuable skill for a big man to have.

Not as much as you think. Cauley-Stein's value lies in his ability to play both big man spots defensively.

At least GMB was only aging WCS two months, you've catapulted him a year forward in time. He will not turn 22 until next August. A month after the "superior" Steven Adams will.

No, what I meant is that Steven Adams will have played two full seasons in the NBA before Cauley-Stein plays his first game. That puts him two years ahead of Cauley-Stein in terms of development. And that heavily contributes to how OKC values him.

nighthob · Oct 11, 2014

Grin&MartyBarret said:
No, what I meant is that Steven Adams will have played two full seasons in the NBA before Cauley-Stein plays his first game. That puts him two years ahead of Cauley-Stein in terms of development. And that heavily contributes to how OKC values him.

The two things aren't remotely related as no one is asking Sam Presti to choose between the two. Regardless of what Brikowski thinks of Cauley-Stein Steven Adams, a slightly more athletic Kendrick Perkins, is nigh on untouchable. Why? Because while offense out of the C spot is a bonus, teams aren't looking for it per se. They want defensive anchors there. His trade value is, in all likelihood, astronomically higher than Kelly Olynyk, despite the latter's offensive game, because KO can't defend either big man spot. So when people say "Willie Cauley-Stein may one day develop into an end of the bench player" they aren't really paying attention to how NBA teams are using Cs these days.

ALiveH · Oct 11, 2014

seems like a big dropoff after top-3.
Stanley Johnson seems like a really nice defensive-minded complementary piece further back in the lotto.

Grin&MartyBarret · Oct 11, 2014

nighthob said:
The two things aren't remotely related as no one is asking Sam Presti to choose between the two. Regardless of what Brikowski thinks of Cauley-Stein Steven Adams, a slightly more athletic Kendrick Perkins, is nigh on untouchable. Why? Because while offense out of the C spot is a bonus, teams aren't looking for it per se. They want defensive anchors there. His trade value is, in all likelihood, astronomically higher than Kelly Olynyk, despite the latter's offensive game, because KO can't defend either big man spot. So when people say "Willie Cauley-Stein may one day develop into an end of the bench player" they aren't really paying attention to how NBA teams are using Cs these days.

Truthfully, I have no idea what you're talking about or why you're directing any of it towards me. You brought up Steven Adams 3 different times in this thread as a comparison for Willy Cauley-Stein. Every time you mentioned Adams, you used the word "untouchable" to describe him, clearly implying that Adams has a lot of value to OKC/Presti and that Cauley-Stein, with similar skills, will be similarly valuable. You then made it clear, in all three posts, that Adams has no offensive game, I guess implying that CS may even have more value in the league. My point is that Adams' is two years ahead of CS, and there's value in that. That's all I've posted in this entire, weird thread and for some reason you've chosen to read that as an attack on every other point you've made. My mistake for participating in a thread where the main players are you and Brickowski. Live and learn, I guess.

nighthob · Oct 11, 2014

I didn't use him as a comp at all, to be brutally frank you're the only one that's compared them. Whoever drafts WCS next year isn't going to be saying to themselves "You know what, this guy sucks, I mean Steven Adams has already been in the NBA for two years." All they're going to be looking at is the defense.

People's big complaint with WCS is his complete and utter lack of an offensive game (which I don't agree with, but am not arguing as it's irrelevant in this case) so I just directed them to a player that's nigh on untouchable in trade that couldn't score on Lindsay Lohan with an eightball of coke and a quart of rum. Have a look at the list of guys around the NBA playing C that defend well but couldn't score on Miley Cyrus. So, yes, WCS is going to get drafted in the first round next year and he's going to get burn in the league.

Grin&MartyBarret · Oct 11, 2014

nighthob said:
OK then, my point is that when underwhelming college big man Steven Adams is nigh on untouchable for his ability to guard the post, guys like WCS have an NBA future. The reality is that most college bigs are underwhelming because that's the way the game is refereed and played (EDIT: at the NCAA level). But WCS has already shown the ability to play both big man defensive roles, and that's valuable.

nighthob said:
Weirdly enough that's pretty much Steven Adam's college production, and he's nigh on untouchable in trade. Mostly because he profiles as an effective post defender.

nighthob said:
The two things aren't remotely related as no one is asking Sam Presti to choose between the two. Regardless of what Brikowski thinks of Cauley-Stein Steven Adams, a slightly more athletic Kendrick Perkins, is nigh on untouchable. Why? Because while offense out of the C spot is a bonus, teams aren't looking for it per se. They want defensive anchors there. His trade value is, in all likelihood, astronomically higher than Kelly Olynyk, despite the latter's offensive game, because KO can't defend either big man spot. So when people say "Willie Cauley-Stein may one day develop into an end of the bench player" they aren't really paying attention to how NBA teams are using Cs these days.

nighthob said:
I didn't use him as a comp at all, to be brutally frank you're the only one that's compared them. Whoever drafts WCS next year isn't going to be saying to themselves "You know what, this guy sucks, I mean Steven Adams has already been in the NBA for two years." All they're going to be looking at is the defense.

People's big complaint with WCS is his complete and utter lack of an offensive game (which I don't agree with, but am not arguing as it's irrelevant in this case) so I just directed them to a player that's nigh on untouchable in trade that couldn't score on Lindsay Lohan with an eightball of coke and a quart of rum. Have a look at the list of guys around the NBA playing C that defend well but couldn't score on Miley Cyrus. So, yes, WCS is going to get drafted in the first round next year and he's going to get burn in the league.

I honestly don't know what's going on right now.

nighthob · Oct 11, 2014

EXACTLY, when people are yelling "He'll never be an NBA player because he can't score!!!!" it's easiest to point to a lottery pick from last year who is completely unavailable in trade whose only discernible NBA skill is the ability to defend one of the NBA big man slots. Saying "But he'll have two years on Willie Cauley-Stein!!!!" has pretty much nothing to do with the conversation. Presti doesn't value Adams at all for any reasons related to any other player.

The value is solely due to Adams' ability to guard the post and be a defensive anchor at the NBA level. Period. That's it. It's not because "Adams' is two years ahead of CS". It's because OKC needs someone to replace the shambling corpse of Kendrick Perkins, a guy they traded a potential lottery pick for. Because NBA teams like big men that defend. This is how someone like Larry Sanders gets to be a mid lottery pick. NBA GMs want their Cs to play defense first, and if they can score, hoorah, you've hit the jackpot. That's why Oden went first over Durant, because he was a defensive anchor that looked like an offensive asset (and why Embiid went third despite the broken foot and back).

Brickowski · Oct 11, 2014

ALiveH said:
seems like a big dropoff after top-3.
Stanley Johnson seems like a really nice defensive-minded complementary piece further back in the lotto.

Maybe, but it's hard to say at this point. Kristaps Porzingis is going to be a very good NBA player if and when he decides to come over. Then there's Coach K's other blue chip recruit, Justise Winslow, who is still growing. Montrezl Harrell is going to be a useful player in the mold of Reggie Evans, although he could turn out to be better than that.

bgcpark · Oct 11, 2014

nighthob said:
I didn't use him as a comp at all, to be brutally frank you're the only one that's compared them. Whoever drafts WCS next year isn't going to be saying to themselves "You know what, this guy sucks, I mean Steven Adams has already been in the NBA for two years." All they're going to be looking at is the defense.
People's big complaint with WCS is his complete and utter lack of an offensive game (which I don't agree with, but am not arguing as it's irrelevant in this case) so I just directed them to a player that's nigh on untouchable in trade that couldn't score on Lindsay Lohan with an eightball of coke and a quart of rum. Have a look at the list of guys around the NBA playing C that defend well but couldn't score on Miley Cyrus. So, yes, WCS is going to get drafted in the first round next year and he's going to get burn in the league.

Grin&MartyBarret · Oct 12, 2014

nighthob said:
EXACTLY, when people are yelling "He'll never be an NBA player because he can't score!!!!" it's easiest to point to a lottery pick from last year who is completely unavailable in trade whose only discernible NBA skill is the ability to defend one of the NBA big man slots. Saying "But he'll have two years on Willie Cauley-Stein!!!!" has pretty much nothing to do with the conversation. Presti doesn't value Adams at all for any reasons related to any other player.

The value is solely due to Adams' ability to guard the post and be a defensive anchor at the NBA level. Period. That's it. It's not because "Adams' is two years ahead of CS". It's because OKC needs someone to replace the shambling corpse of Kendrick Perkins, a guy they traded a potential lottery pick for. Because NBA teams like big men that defend. This is how someone like Larry Sanders gets to be a mid lottery pick. NBA GMs want their Cs to play defense first, and if they can score, hoorah, you've hit the jackpot. That's why Oden went first over Durant, because he was a defensive anchor that looked like an offensive asset (and why Embiid went third despite the broken foot and back).

Nighthob 1
Nighthob 0

nighthob · Oct 12, 2014

So you're really going with "OKC won't trade Adams because he has two years on a guy that isn't in the NBA yet"?

Grin&MartyBarret · Oct 12, 2014

nighthob said:
So you're really going with "OKC won't trade Adams because he has two years on a guy that isn't in the NBA yet"?

Let's be clear about some things:

I haven't made a single comment in this thread about Cauley-Stein, Adams' play on the court, or how NBA teams value big men. The only thing I have said, in response to the third time you called Adams untouchable and compared him to Cauley-Stein, is that Adams is two years ahead of CS in terms of development. That's it. Everything else you think we're arguing about is you arguing with yourself. That said, now that you're insisting, your analysis of Adams' value is incomplete at best.

Adams has been playing basketball at a high level for exactly 2 seasons; the one he spent at Pitt and last season in OKC. Before that, he played at a low level in New Zealand and came over as an extremely raw prospect with a soft touch around the rim, good hands, and plus defense and athleticism. His value isn't SOLELY about his defense, as you've been insisting all weekend, but is about the fact that his FLOOR is as a defense-first big man. And he's proven that already. Beyond that, he's 21years old and extremely raw. His hands are soft, he has good touch around the rim, and the NBA is full of 7 footers who didn't have anything resembling a post game at age 21. In fact, it's extremely rare that any big man comes out of school with one. It happens, what, once every 5 years? So your take completely discounts his ability to develop and assumes he'll never grow into anything beyond what he is now. The Thunder's front office, and many other NBA front offices, would be, and will, bet that he does.

So that was the simple point I was making, which for some reason, you've fought for 3 days now: Cauley-Stein hasn't proven shit yet, and Steven Adams is not a perfect comp because Steven Adams will have two pro seasons on Cauley-Stein and was far more raw to begin with. Their ceilings are different, and NBA teams value NBA experience and NBA coaching over battling with 6'6 post men at Auburn. It's not a particularly complicated stance, nor does it even go against 95% of what you're saying in this thread, most of which I agree with. I haven't stated that CS won't make the league, or that you have to score to play the 5 in the NBA. Those are conversations you're having with yourself. All I've said is that those two years are important to Adams' value. That's it.

Edit: and to be clear, I don't even think Adams is "nigh untouchable." That's a strawman you created. The Thunder value him, sure, but they'd move him in plenty of deals.

Auger34 · Oct 13, 2014

Brickowski said:
I don't think Cauley-Stein has much of a shot at being an NBA player at any position.

WCS is pretty much a lock to be a rotational player at C. I think his floor is Tyson Chandler (Hornets era version). He's going to be an ultra athletic center who can block/alter shots and rebound well. On offense he is going to be an alley-oop and P&R machine.
If he can develop more of a jump shot he has a chance to be an All-Star. I might be wrong on this but isn't WCS a late comer to basketball as well?

Auger34 · Oct 13, 2014

This discussion kind of got derailed with Steven Adams being brought up...
The bottom line is that, no matter what, I don't think you can put forth an argument that says WCS won't be at the very least a rotational big in the NBA. Apparently he tested off the charts athletically at UK's pro day deal they had recently and he has proven himself to be an active defender in college. His size, athletic ability, and defensive prowess alone guarantee he will be in the NBA for a long time. That is discounting the fact that the coaching staff there says his game has improved significantly every year there.
I mean look at a guy like DeAndre Jordan. DAJ has no discernible offensive game other than dunks and put backs but because of his size/athletic ability/and rim protection he is a core cog on a championship level team

Auger34 · Oct 13, 2014

ALiveH said:
seems like a big dropoff after top-3.
Stanley Johnson seems like a really nice defensive-minded complementary piece further back in the lotto.

I don't know exactly how far back you mean when you say further back in the lotto, but as of now Johnson is thought of as a top 6-7 pick. He has a chance to break into the top 4 or 5 if he showcases more of a jumper. (Of course, the opposite of that is if his offensive game doesn't improve he could be labeled as a Kidd-Gilchrist type and fall a little bit from where he is projected now)

HomeRunBaker · Oct 13, 2014

tbb345 said:
This discussion kind of got derailed with Steven Adams being brought up...
The bottom line is that, no matter what, I don't think you can put forth an argument that says WCS won't be at the very least a rotational big in the NBA. Apparently he tested off the charts athletically at UK's pro day deal they had recently and he has proven himself to be an active defender in college. His size, athletic ability, and defensive prowess alone guarantee he will be in the NBA for a long time. That is discounting the fact that the coaching staff there says his game has improved significantly every year there.
I mean look at a guy like DeAndre Jordan. DAJ has no discernible offensive game other than dunks and put backs but because of his size/athletic ability/and rim protection he is a core cog on a championship level team

Forget DeAndre Jordan who is an upper echelon starting 5......we are talking about a FLOOR as a rotational 5. How soon some forget guys like Mikki Moore STARTED 181 games and avg over 18 mpg over 14 NBA seasons. I mean some are actually hopeful for a stiff like Tyler Zeller to have this type of career.

Yeah I don't think WCS will have to worry about flipping burgers anytime soon.

knucklecup · Oct 13, 2014

HomeRunBaker said:
Forget DeAndre Jordan who is an upper echelon starting 5...

Remember when this board was furious about the potential idea of trading for DeAndre Jordan?

Grin&MartyBarret · Oct 13, 2014

knucklecup said:
Remember when this board was furious about the potential idea of trading for DeAndre Jordan?

Got over shadowed by the board's anger over potentially trading for Kevin Love.

HomeRunBaker · Oct 13, 2014

knucklecup said:
Remember when this board was furious about the potential idea of trading for DeAndre Jordan?

I was drooling so bad I was making up trades for Bledsoe and Jordan although I will state that my primary splooge was focused on Bledsoe.

nighthob · Oct 13, 2014

HomeRunBaker said:
Forget DeAndre Jordan who is an upper echelon starting 5......we are talking about a FLOOR as a rotational 5. How soon some forget guys like Mikki Moore STARTED 181 games and avg over 18 mpg over 14 NBA seasons. I mean some are actually hopeful for a stiff like Tyler Zeller to have this type of career.

Yeah I don't think WCS will have to worry about flipping burgers anytime soon.

No indeedy. He has elite defensive upside and actually enjoys playing D (as opposed to DAJ who had to be cajoled into it). Barring drugs or injuries he's going to have a long NBA career.

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