2015 Eagles: What the hell is going on here?!

LondonSox

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I have been super busy personally but I'll be finishing a piece for inside the pylon soon with extended thoughts but Damn this offseason got crazy.

Right now the Eagles have promoted chip, demoted Roseman and then chip seems set on lighting everything Roseman did on fire.

Roseman gave 2012 extensions to
Cole
Herremans
Mccoy
Oh yeah and desean Jackson.

All gone.

Gone too are Williams (meaning two new starting cb and probably a safety) and Cole and after the shocking Mccoy for alonso trade I assume Ryans is gone too.

All combined this leaves the Eagles with over 50million in cap space. More if Ryans is indeed released.

It's also a super young team.

If (and frankly regardless) the Eagles want to go after mariota, which is still very much rumoured as real, then they need to go huge in free agency. Huge.

They need starters, not depth but starters, at rb, wr (maclin not tagged and is a free agent), olb, both cb, and a safety. They may need a starter at Rg too, or may think they have a starter in Tobin.

They also need to figure out what to do at qb and plan for the future for an excellent but aging oline.

Basically the Eagles look set at defensive line and inside linebacker (and look really really good there).

If they are giving up a lot of future picks to get mariota they need to get long term starters at the majority of those holes in free agency.

I personally was underwhelmed by shady last year, and Pff destroyed him rating him as one of the worst rb adjusted for their offensive line. He's so talented but is one to cut a run outside and take losses vs out his head down. He's also 27 which is the peak in rb historically AND has had as many touches as anyone in the last few years. He refused to discuss a contact restructuring and was a 12million cap hit. Getting a young cheap stud would be a coup, but I think given the acl injury a coup is a bit strong.

Rb seems to be, as the likes of the Patriots show every year!, the most replaceable part of the team and not where you want to lock up your cap space.

Reportedly last year the Eagles looked to trade for cj spiller. So that could be an option.

But right now if you're a free agent the Eagles could be calling almost regardless of position!
 

dcmissle

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Patriot like move, and I suspect that fan reaction, egged on by the media, may be similar too.

Makes sense to me. I do wonder, though, about Chip's ability to trade up for Mariotta without paying dearly. Look at the RGIII trade, the number of spots the Redskins moved, what they paid, and the number of spots the Eagles would need to move unless Mariotta falls dramatically, which I doubt. Like it or not, that trade is a benchmark of sorts.
 

LondonSox

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I agree. I thought he could slip to 10 on lower which makes it possible. But if he's going top 3 I don't see how.

Including foles if someone likes him could be an option. But they don't even have a Washington package possible. I'm dubious those mega deals make sense ever.
 

dcmissle

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Doubtful he gets past 6. Jets either will take him or trade out. Redskins probably would trade out at 5 now that they have a guy who knows how to draft. But they would probably demand RGIII package to redeem RGIII mistake.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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The wounds from the Nmamdi signing might still be kind of raw, in terms of splurging big on veteran DBs, but both Revis and McCourty make a lot of sense for this team.  Everybody is talking about the Bills, the Jets, and even the Jaguars as possible destinations but the Eagles have $50M in cap space and, apart from figuring out the QB question, an improved defensive backfield has to be their top priority.  For players leaving a Super Bowl champion, going to a team like the Eagles with a top coach and recent history of playoff participation is probably a lot easier to swallow than going to perennial losing franchises that may or may not turn it around.
 

Marciano490

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LondonSox said:
I agree. I thought he could slip to 10 on lower which makes it possible. But if he's going top 3 I don't see how.

Including foles if someone likes him could be an option. But they don't even have a Washington package possible. I'm dubious those mega deals make sense ever.
 
Here's a question I always had, and I don't know whether it's possibly to prove out either way, but it's interesting to me at least.  If you can't trade for a player for X amount of time after he's drafted, then I'm an idiot and disregard:
 
Let's say you have the 20th pick.  You're interested in a player like Mariota, who could go top 5, but who could slip to 10-15.  Is there an argument to wait to see where he ends up and then make a trade with the team that's just drafted him because should he slip you might end up saving capital?
 

singaporesoxfan

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Marciano490 said:
 
Here's a question I always had, and I don't know whether it's possibly to prove out either way, but it's interesting to me at least.  If you can't trade for a player for X amount of time after he's drafted, then I'm an idiot and disregard:
 
Let's say you have the 20th pick.  You're interested in a player like Mariota, who could go top 5, but who could slip to 10-15.  Is there an argument to wait to see where he ends up and then make a trade with the team that's just drafted him because should he slip you might end up saving capital?
 
The rules are that the draft pick can only negotiate with the team that picked him, and the team cannot trade those negotiating rights. From the CBA:
 
 
If a Drafted Rookie has not signed a Player Contract during the period from the date of such Draft to the thirtieth day prior to the first game of the regular season: (i) the Club that drafted the player may not thereafter trade to another Club either its exclusive negotiating rights to such player or any Player Contract that it signs with such player for the player’s initial League Year
 
If you're talking about trading for Mariota _after_ he's signed the contract with the team that picked him, I don't know if there are rules about trading for a player for X amount of time after he's drafted and has signed. It would be a bad deal cap-wise for the team that picked him, though, since his pro-rated signing bonus would be accelerated onto the cap, I think.
 

MalzoneExpress

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SSF, I think you are misinterpreting the rule by not taking into account the "thereafter". There is a large window before the "thirtieth day prior to the first game of the regular season" and before contracts are signed when trading should be allowed. The famous draft day trade between the Giants and the Chargers (Rivers for Manning) is an example that would fit Marciano's scenario. However, that was special circumstances as Manning did not want to play in the AFC for San Diego and he was going to be a problem to sign. Usualy, a team that drafts a player is not really interested in turning around and trading them, but it is not impossible.
 

LondonSox

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Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
The wounds from the Nmamdi signing might still be kind of raw, in terms of splurging big on veteran DBs, but both Revis and McCourty make a lot of sense for this team.  Everybody is talking about the Bills, the Jets, and even the Jaguars as possible destinations but the Eagles have $50M in cap space and, apart from figuring out the QB question, an improved defensive backfield has to be their top priority.  For players leaving a Super Bowl champion, going to a team like the Eagles with a top coach and recent history of playoff participation is probably a lot easier to swallow than going to perennial losing franchises that may or may not turn it around.
I honestly feel this is a factor in Roseman being moved down. Since he went big and it didn't work out they have been gunshy, preferring to extend their own guys and going for second teir lower risk moves in free agency.
That isn't going to work for a what Chip is looking at right now. He is cleaning out players that are too expensive or don't fit his plans long term.

The main rumour in Philly and frankly beyond is that they go hard after Maxwell, and there are some good articles noting his style and skills fit with the scheme the Eagles run.
If he doesn't go nuts and sign for something crazy I think that's the top target.
The Eagles NEED a reliable corner, if they get a good corner and an average one, and a decent second safety they can shade to help the lesser CB.
I think they will try for one top end CB and a safety, very much agree Mccourty is in play here too. Revis/ MAxwell and Mcourty would look like a really solid D potential. If they get Worilds for OLB too then that D on paper looks pretty great.

Fletcher Cox, Logan, Thornton, Curry and a lot of good spelling players up front, Barwin, Worilds, Alonso and Kendricks at LB (this is very exciting) Maxwell, Mccourty, Jenkins and X CB all told could be a very nice line up.

There are a lot of young cheap players in that lot (Cox, Logan, Curry, Alonso and Kenricks) which can help offset some expense elsewhere.

On O they need a number 1 receiver, Maclin still very possible, and I think they go second tier RB a Spiller or Forsett type (rather than a Peterson, Murray type). I think RG they're ok with Tobin so only sign someone if they get a deal.

Then in the draft they'll be adding young oline talent, secondary talent and maybe a QB, plus maybe a RB. Or they give up the whole thing and get Mariota. Thing is you sort of have to act on the FA side well before the draft so we'll have an idea. I also presume Foles will be available if they do the Mariota.
 

Oil Can Dan

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Graham seems to want to get back to a 4-3 D. And he wasn't released, he's a free agent starting Tuesday. Chip must not think there's good value there.
 

LondonSox

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Yes free agent not released.
Most expect him to be more valuable to a 4-3 defence than a 3-4

Ugh if when the Eagles traded up to get him if they had taken Earl Thomas instead... Yeesh
 

SMU_Sox

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Corsi said:

https://twitter.com/mortreport/status/574728385135423488"]21s21

link to tweet seconds ago[/url]

The Eagles' wild ride will continue: Jeremy Maclin plans to reunite with Andy Reid in Kansas City once free agent market opens Tuesday.


I picked the right week to be back in Philly listening to WIP. The chatter here is that Chip wants to move away from the previous administration. It's Philly so the lads are skeptical and brass but no pitchforks or riots sighted.... yet. If he signed for a grandiose deal that's one thing but even then they had the cap space to sign him. So far though you hear a surprising amount of "In Chip we Trust" from the choir.
 

LondonSox

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The Sanchez move is the weirdest one.

Gore is a perfect fit for the offense, but he's frickin ancient, but I expect he will be sharing snaps with the multi headed monster of Polk and Sproles.

It's not exactly a ringing endorsement of Mccoy was hitting his peak due to age argument.
All said I think it's too much and too long for gore but not likely horrible near term. Next year he will be good imo , can he hang on for another? Maybe. Great style fit.

The maxwell rumors not shocking. Expensive but expected.
I think the cap raise is going to make all contracts bigger. So early to know

Not shocked they went hard after mccourty and not shocked they missed.
I think they planned two big upgrades in the three spaces, there is still possibility. But maxwell Jenkins mccourty and someone else is the best secondary in years and that plan is gone.

I hope they go for house and a lesser safety and look into worilds.

Back to Sanchez. The money and upside is kind of insane. So either it's going to be a real competition if they don't get mariota. Or more likely, imo, is that he is there to help and start for a while for mariota. This makes a foles plus picks trade to move up for him possible.

Maclin going elsewhere is not shocking he wanted more money than the Eagles were comfortable with, if he was staying it was on a deal last year. He proved himself and has reaped the rewards. The Eagles need another receiver.
 

pdaj

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I'm not sure why the Sanchize re-signing is considered weird for you. It had been circulated all season last year that Chip wasn't sold on Foles, and Sanchez performed relatively well over 9 games as his replacement. 4.5 million per is reasonable for just a quality backup, and if Mariota is drafted, he can start in '15, and if all goes well, serve as the backup in '16. Additionally, Foles is now available to trade. This is exactly what I expected Philly to do. 
 

LondonSox

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Well it's a big pay rise for a guy who made all the same mistakes. Yes he was better than for the jets but he still turns the ball over too much and that's a huge issue.

I would never have given him this much myself. If you keep foles then 2 years 5.5+ is a lot. If not then I understand.

It's not resigning Sanchez so much as the length and upside.
 

dcmissle

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Another indication to me they are all in for Mariotta. And everyone knows it.

This is going to be expensive. They cannot risk Jets taking him at 6. Redskins are at 5 but may not have the guts to pull the trigger on that kind of trade.

So you may be talking about 20 to 4 in a trade.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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dcmissle said:
Another indication to me they are all in for Mariotta. And everyone knows it.

This is going to be expensive. They cannot risk Jets taking him at 6. Redskins are at 5 but may not have the guts to pull the trigger on that kind of trade.

So you may be talking about 20 to 4 in a trade.
 
In a vacuum a Philly-Oakland trade makes lots of sense.  Oakland has a lot of holes and while it would be great to stay at #4 and add a WR like Kevin White or Amari Cooper, this draft is pretty deep at the WR position as well as other areas they need help (like OL). If they can pick up a huge haul of picks, I think they need to do it.  Marc Davis keeping Reggie McKenzie as GM and letting him hire a new HC this year also suggests to me that those guys have a 2-3 year leash at least, so I don't think its a situation where they are desperate to win now and will discount the value of any future picks in the package.
 
All that said, its still going to be very expensive and I don't know whether Philly will really pay the price.
 

LondonSox

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Graham is staying with philly. I'm very surprised, and at 4 years 14 mm guaranteed it's less than I thought he'd get.

He really improved at olb last year better vs the run and excellent getting pressure. He will start will Cole gone and we'll see if he can keep as efficient playing a lot more (spoiler he cant)

I expect that's cheaper than worilds will be and I guess maybe the interest last year on him was Roseman more than Kelly?

Still need a safety and a second cb and a wr.
I quite like andre Johnson on a short deal, let huff and Matthews develop.
 

Tony C

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This is the same guy who thought that dumping Jackson for Kerr was about race....I wonder if he's still in that sinking boat?
 

LondonSox

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Yes right and the huge deal for maxwell? The larger than Patriots offer for mccourty.
The just shy of 10mm a year offer for maclin.
Gore.
I also believe that Kelly has one of the highest number of minority coaches.

But...

We shall just ignore all that and focus on a drunk video of cooper.

Which isn't to say that cooper doesn't deserve scorn, but I tend to not judge a player or a coach by one single event.

I'm so happy places like itp will show how crap this pandering click hunting rubbish is in the face of actual analysis and views.
 

DanoooME

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dcmissle said:
Another indication to me they are all in for Mariotta. And everyone knows it.

This is going to be expensive. They cannot risk Jets taking him at 6. Redskins are at 5 but may not have the guts to pull the trigger on that kind of trade.

So you may be talking about 20 to 4 in a trade.
 
They can deal 3 first rounders including #20 for #4, then take Amari Cooper.  Then they can deal 3 second rounders for the Redskins at #5 and force the Jets to trade them 3 #1s to take Mariota.  Then they can take the best available guy at #6.
 

Cornboy14

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Oakland showed two years ago they'd be willing to trade down for less than the "chart" price. The trade down to draft Hayden didn't net as much as it normally would.
 

LondonSox

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I haven't seen anything that specific but there is plenty of noise about rams being interested. That would be a logical trade.

The titans are supposedly interested in foles too.

In other news the gore signing is apparently not happening after all.

Can't say I'm truly upset but I don't like all these leaks.

I think gore is a good fit, but the deal was longer for an aging guy than I'd have liked.

Oh and talk is Graham was set to sign with the Giants before coming back. So that's nice.
 

LondonSox

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It's possible. Esp after missing on mcourty they go big at cb and fill in at safety.
But maxwell looks to be the big target.

That said they went Graham for less than worilds and gore is not signed after all that could be plan b or c

I would prefer house depending on deal of course. Not least because I want a maxwell house joke every Damn week.

I want tyvon branch and house.
I think that would make a very nice looking starting d
 

theapportioner

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Revis is a GFIN-type acquisition. Without a quarterback, are the Eagles really in that mode? The Alonso and Maxwell acquisitions, and McCourty effort made sense since they are younger and would presumably be there for a while.
 

LondonSox

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Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
Foles and 20 for 10 certainly would make it a lot easier to get Mariota.
Yup but that has been denied elsewhere.
Frankly no one has a clue. Why do it now anyway? You are surely making the next step more expensive as everyone knows!

No one has any clue tbh
 

LondonSox

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Check out @Jeff_McLane's Tweet: https://twitter.com/Jeff_McLane/status/575427240051281920?s=09

I have no idea what the fuck they are doing. This mental.
 

E5 Yaz

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Adam Caplan of ESPN just reported that there was “mutual interest” between the Eagles and Cowboys running back DeMarco Murray. PFT has confirmed that interest exists, setting the stage for a dramatic NFC East move.
 

Al Zarilla

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E5 Yaz said:
Adam Caplan of ESPN just reported that there was “mutual interest” between the Eagles and Cowboys running back DeMarco Murray. PFT has confirmed that interest exists, setting the stage for a dramatic NFC East move.
Biggest NFC East trade since Sonny Jurgenson for Norm Snead?
 

E5 Yaz

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Al Zarilla said:
Biggest NFC East trade since Sonny Jurgenson for Norm Snead?
 
well, wouldn't be a trade, but it would be big
 

theapportioner

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E5 Yaz said:
Adam Caplan of ESPN just reported that there was “mutual interest” between the Eagles and Cowboys running back DeMarco Murray. PFT has confirmed that interest exists, setting the stage for a dramatic NFC East move.
 
I'd assume he'd rather go after Peyton Hillis or Danny Woodhead.
 

E5 Yaz

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theapportioner said:
 
I'd assume he'd rather go after Peyton Hillis or Danny Woodhead.
 
You're going to keep dumping in the Stephen A. jokes until they're funny?
 

wutang112878

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I think Chip Kelly has Rick Pitinio-itis.  Pitino seemed to be infatuated with the concept of trading players after having to be 'stuck' with them for the duration of their college careers.  Thats really the only way I can make sense of what Chip is doing.
 

SMU_Sox

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I think this will work out for the Eagles because I think Bradford is finally going to have a good year. He has the arm strength and mechanics to throw all over the field provided (I'm assuming he will be healthy enough to make that claim). It's a gamble. The Eagles still have holes in the secondary and at RB and WR but let's wait and see how the rest of free agency and the draft play out. Behind a better offensive line and if he really is healthy I look forward to the 2015 season. The NFC East has three teams that look to be competitive.
 

NortheasternPJ

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SeoulSoxFan

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I must be in the minority (ha!) that thinks Chip has done very well this off-season. 
  • Trades a soon-to-be-declining $$$ RB for a cost-controlled former all-rookie LB
  • Passes on a WR that gets a $11m-a-year deal
  • Releases an aging LB in Cole then uses the savings to re-sign Graham -- who's already better than Cole
  • Takes a calculated gamble that Bradford will be a better fit than Foles
  • Went aggressively after McCourty -- can't fault him for offering more $$
Bradford-for-Foles is a gamble for sure, but the other moves are what BB would have done in a heartbeat. 
 
Oh, and this is another draft with a lot of WR talent and terrific RBs can be had in later rounds. They also keep their 1st rounder by not trading the farm for Mariota. 
 
I Trust in Chip.
 

LondonSox

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I don't have any problem with the McCoy trade, nor letting Maclin walk at that amount.
Cole is also a move I'm fine with, very surprised how much money he got actually, but I'd always prefer to let a guy go a year too early than a year too late
Can't complain with the money for Graham nor the Maxwell aggression, nor going hard after McCourty (though the seeming lack of a plan b at safety seems a bit worrying)

All of this I agree. There is only one crazy move and it's the latest, and if someone high in the draft wants BRadford this would make a lot more sense. Though EVEN THEN I don't understand how it took Foles AND a 2nd round pick AND a 4/5th round swap. Foles and the swaps or the 2nd round and the swaps fine. All? That seems crazy.
If he really thinks Bradford is his guy, then I don't get it but fine. I can understand paying for your guy, just this isn't who anyone thought his guy was. If he's the guy then why no contract negotiations before the deal? You can't give up all this and then not extend him, if he does well you're over a barrel to pay up big, and if he is hurt sure the trade gets less damaging as some picks come back.

Surely if BRadford is to stay then the contract needs to be extended, and I have no idea how that looks. Bradford is a knee injury from done you'd have to think so can't be a lot of guaranteed money, and maybe Bradford would rather bet on himself, like MAclin did.

I liked all the other moves. OR at least I'm ok with them. I do think the offense needs some playmakers though, you're looking at Cooper, Huff and Matthews at WR and Polk and Sproles at RB and a ? at RG. The D is a safety and CB from looking set. But that's two big holes.