2015 Broncos-Peyton's Retirement Party Sunday 1/24/16 3PM ET

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Dogman2

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We have a thread on the guy that falls behind Brady on the all time list. We know about the coaching changes.
 
This is for the entire team.
 
http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/denver-broncos-wes-welker-possible-retirement-021015?adbsc=social_20150210_40291056&adbid=10153612565999552&adbpl=fb&adbpr=112638779551
 
 
One of the sources said no final decision has been made, though Welker has told concerned friends, family members and associates he's at least giving serious thought to walking away.
 
 
Wes considering walking away.  I hope he does as he has had 3 confirmed concussions with Denver and he had at least 4 with NE.  He is a FA but that affects the team.
 

j-man

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as most of u know i am a broncos fan 
 
here is my state of the team  
 
QB I think manning will come back  but it could get ugly  with manning they are a 10-11 win team    without they are a 6 win team  B+ with manning C- without   and for the record  OZ can play  but needs 1-2 years of starts  to get good  think joe flacco with a little more speed    
 
RB C J Anderson   could be a star   maybe a 1'800 yards  in kubiak system       M Ball is a bust but he could be a good backup  hilliman thoman are good role players  A-  
 
WR/TE   too soon to  know who will be back  DT  will stay 1 way or another through the FA tag or a long term deal       but the colts playoff game  hurt his value slightly as V Davis shut him down    C Laiter will get a lot more time  at WR   as he was not 1 of manning boys and did not get the ball  as last year was a redshirt season  
E Sanders was outstanding and will be the num 2 or wes replacement in the slot     welker is done and should retire      but dont be surprised if oakland or chicago offer a deal    Caldwell should be cut  as cutting him saves 1.3 mil  did next to nothing last year     but he is manning's boy    J Norwood showed some promise as a kr   in preseason   also E Royal  might be a fit to come back as he had his best pro season in 2008  in the kubiak system   
 
TE every 1 of denver TE ex D Jones are FA'S  J Thomas is gone   some team like oakland Jax  cle  will overpay   J Tamme is just a guy  V Green can run block  and has underrated hands   50/50 he comes back    expect denver to sign TE O Danlels  kubiak drafted him and he went to balt last year   with kubiak     and expect denver to draft a te as well    
 
OL Clady will be back  he was drafted for this system     in 2008 and was 2nd team all pro   Franklin will get paid much $$$ 50/50 denver keeps him   same with montgomery  as his great play last year means he might command 3-4 mil a season  $$  RG Vasquez had a down year last year but is much better at guard   RT needs to addressed expect denver to make a run at derek newton    he plays RT for houston  kubiak drafted him in houton    
 
 
part 2   up next  
 

Koufax

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I heard today that peyton has started working out and intends to come back for one more year.
 

koufax32

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J-Man, once again great breakdown of needs and expected moves based on reasonable assumptions. Everything you said makes a lot of sense. One very minor quibble is that there is no way JAX overlays for JT.
What is their plan for the o line? Will there be a system change in run blocking that would necessitate different personnel or is it going to be a similar scheme with the hopes of finding a couple of new guys who don't suck?

Edit: I can haz grammer
 

j-man

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DE/DT  the hiring of bill kollar should light a fire under these guys   if knighton leaves expect  a 1st round nt   DC Wade phillips  likes small quick NT     DE D Wolfe should fit well in this system   Sly Williams should get 1 DE spot  is ave so far   M Jackson Q Smith might move to OLB   Marvin austin is just a guy  M Uritain is a FA    
 
OLB Ware and miller will start here  Miller is a 15 sack a year guy  and should be asked to just rush the passer   Ware  fits better in a 3-4 could have 9-12 sacks  if used right 
 
ILB  I Expect B Marshall to get a ilb spot   he was a bright spot last year   Danny t can he stay on the field  if he can will give denver more choices    N Irving was a goner but in the 3-4 could be very useful   if he come back   
 
CB Denver has 3 very good man to man CB'S  Harris JR plays everyone except NE very well   Tailb  got beat in the playoff game but is a solid num 2 cb   ROBY was a great 1st round pick   showing much promise  K Webster might be moved  to FS   to replace R Moore  
 
Saf  R Moore is gone either Webter or a guy like K Lewis will take his place    TJ Ward cannot cover TE'S  should be a in the box lb   great at run stop  rest of the guys are ST players led by David burton   
 
K Barth was outstading from 50 yards and in   P Colqutt  is just ok  ST Coverage was awful   
 

j-man

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koufax32 said:
J-Man, once again great breakdown of needs and expected moves based on reasonable assumptions. Everything you said makes a lot of sense. One very minor quibble is that there is no way JAX overlays for JT.
What is their plan for the o line? Will there be a system change in run blocking that would necessitate different personnel or is it going to be a similar scheme with the hopes of finding a couple of new guys who don't suck?

Edit: I can haz grammer
 
koufax32 said:
J-Man, once again great breakdown of needs and expected moves based on reasonable assumptions. Everything you said makes a lot of sense. One very minor quibble is that there is no way JAX overlays for JT.
What is their plan for the o line? Will there be a system change in run blocking that would necessitate different personnel or is it going to be a similar scheme with the hopes of finding a couple of new guys who don't suck?

Edit: I can haz grammer
the o-line plan is back to the ZBS  of 95-2008   more 1-cut strhen  bootlegs plays  and a hybrid of manning  colts shotgun stuff   if he comes back  
 

soxfan121

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j-man said:
 
the o-line plan is back to the ZBS  of 95-2008  
 
Is this going to be an easy transition? Franklin and Vazquez seem like poor fits, though finding ZBS guards should be fairly easy. Newton at RT seems like a disaster; he's not a good enough pass blocker for a Peyton-led offense. It would make more sense to draft a T - Clady is not getting younger or healthier and RT is question mark that could be filled with an existing part or a FA...but a long term solution would be nice. 
 

j-man

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soxfan121 said:
 
Is this going to be an easy transition? Franklin and Vazquez seem like poor fits, though finding ZBS guards should be fairly easy. Newton at RT seems like a disaster; he's not a good enough pass blocker for a Peyton-led offense. It would make more sense to draft a T - Clady is not getting younger or healthier and RT is question mark that could be filled with an existing part or a FA...but a long term solution would be nice. 
i am not in love with the off with peyton in it  but   it seems to fit oz well   clady was drafted for this off   so he should be fine   Franklin will plob want too much money 9-10 a year   Vazquez is much better at guard      i would not sign newton  but  all the good OT will be gone by the 28 Pick      i think maxx williams could be a good value at 28  
also with the coaching change  S williams is not a good fit along with schofield     if we re-sign franklin i would move him to RT and put B Garland at LG   as garland has the size and speed to fit the zbs   
 

j-man

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the broncos and manning are talking about lowing his cap number from 21.5 mil  to a guess  15-16 mil   
 
 
manning will be back   
 
so will D Thomas   Fran tag   
 
i do think denver will not keep both knighton and franklin    in fact i think its 90 % knighton goes to oakland     and 50/50 Franklin    
 
denver should  have about 22 mil in cap room wwhen FA stars  right now they have 30 mil  fran DT takes 14 away  let say manning gives 4 mil back   we cut ramiez  and caldwell   we have 22.5 mil to play with  and needs at TE  C LG RT  DT ILB Wesbter right now our 4th cb is in like to be the FS     expect Denver to fill the TE C and RT holes in FA  round 1 ILB or DT  round 2 G  round 3  WR or 3-4 DE   
 

RedOctober3829

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Sox and Rocks

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Every little bit helps, so it's good for Denver that they were able to get Manning to do this (he could have, perhaps should have, told them to no), but $4 million won't go far in keeping Knighton, J Thomas, Franklin, Moore, Irvin, etc. while replacing the ones they don't re-sign and plugging their holes. 
 

Sox and Rocks

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Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
Cap hit is still $17.5M, which is the same as the past two seasons.
Yeah, but lower than it was scheduled to be.
 
jsinger121 said:
He can still make up the 4 million in incentives. Wonder how hard they are to attain. This is a pretty fake pay cut if they incentives are easy to hit.
Really?  Where are you getting this info?
 

singaporesoxfan

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jsinger121 said:
He can still make up the 4 million in incentives. Wonder how hard they are to attain. This is a pretty fake pay cut if they incentives are easy to hit.
If the incentives are easy to hit (aka Likely To Be Earned incentives) they count towards the cap. The reason this deal saves the Broncos $4m of cap space is because Peyton getting to the Super Bowl and winning it is officially classified as Not Likely to Be Earned.
 

singaporesoxfan

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I know it's really just based on previous season team performance, but there's something nice about the fact that Peyton Manning reaching the Super Bowl is officially designated as Not Likely. (By comparison, the Pats can't save cap space by offering Brady the same bonuses.)
 

j-man

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Denver wanted manning to take a larger pay cut but he said no   
 
i would try to get DT  to a 5y 70 mil deal before FA  13 mil year 1 14 mil year 2    15 mil year 3  give him a opt out after 3 y  that way he can cash in again   
the only other guy i would offer is Franklin  
5y 40 mil   8 mil across the board  24 mil in bonus     
 

j-man

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RedOctober3829 said:
Does he give back money for losing in the Divisional Round?
if would not shock me if Denver misses the playoffs next year at 9-7 because most of our road games @ cle @ pitt @ chi   @ kc  could be cold weather road games in nov dec     and our home sch ne gb balt ciny minn is brual     
 
the only way denver makes the playoffs   next year  is 2 or 3 of those road games are early sept oct games esp chi pitt
 
our peak is 12 wins
our bottom is 9 wins       
 
only way manning makes the super bowl is  
1 Revis leaves  NE  
2 denver gets the 1 seed and the Bengals in the AFCGC   
 
which is a slim chance   
 

Gunfighter 09

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j-man said:
if would not shock me if Denver misses the playoffs next year at 9-7 because most of our road games @ cle @ pitt @ chi   @ kc  could be cold weather road games in nov dec     and our home sch ne gb balt ciny minn is brual     
 
the only way denver makes the playoffs   next year  is 2 or 3 of those road games are early sept oct games esp chi pitt
 
our peak is 12 wins
our bottom is 9 wins       
 
only way manning makes the super bowl is  
1 Revis leaves  NE  
2 denver gets the 1 seed and the Bengals in the AFCGC   
 
which is a slim chance   
 
A couple of breaks, (39 year old QB getting hurt or two time offender star DE getting the 1 year suspension) and  your bottom might be 4 or 5 wins. 
 

BigJimEd

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Papelbon's Poutine said:
This may be wildly off base, but I can't imagine what is in parenthesis being accurate.
For cap purposes, incentives are based solely on the previous season. If the incentive was reached the previous year than it is LTBE (likely to be earned). If it wasn't then it is considered NLTBE (not likely).


So in Brady's, or any Patriot, winning the Super Bowl would be considered a LTBE incentive.
 

E5 Yaz

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Bruschi was funny this morning on SC. Basically said that Manning's give back was okay, but would have liked it more if Peyton had been more willing to give the Broncos more breathing room. "It's not like he needs to money at this point."
 

jsinger121

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E5 Yaz said:
Bruschi was funny this morning on SC. Basically said that Manning's give back was okay, but would have liked it more if Peyton had been more willing to give the Broncos more breathing room. "It's not like he needs to money at this point."
 
Bruschi is right on par. He probably should have taken a larger paycut in order to put a better team around him.
 

j-man

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Gunfighter 09 said:
 
A couple of breaks, (39 year old QB getting hurt or two time offender star DE getting the 1 year suspension) and  your bottom might be 4 or 5 wins. 
u right on manning but we can patchwork a pass rush without V Miller      and other than oakland who will improve  i see SD and KC taken 1 or 2 steps back   KC has no cap room to sign anyone  and SD is Bad at OL and their back 7     
 
btw good luck with del rio    2 major things against him   
1  he plays too soft of D aga Elite QB   hopefully will Let norton run the D    
2  Del Rio is miles better than any coach u had since gruden   but D Quinn K Norton jr T Austin  would had been so much better for u  in the long run   
 
what i would do if i was mark davis let del rio get u to 500 Level   then hire someone from the ravens to GM  and T Austin  Lions DC as coach    
 

j-man

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jsinger121 said:
 
Bruschi is right on par. He probably should have taken a larger paycut in order to put a better team around him.
too bad i am not manning i wouild said look   elway  850k for the next 2 years but  i need OL help  so i need it in writeing that all  my 19 mil will go toward the o-line   or no deal   
 

JimD

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Manning should have agreed to play for the league minimum with a $15 million bonus if he avoids going one-and-done in the playoffs.
 

PedroKsBambino

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I imagine Peyton and Brady both get pressure from NFLPA on this issue.   Peyton has always been a 'top dollar' guy and so I have no problem with the criticism of what looks like a smallish giveback here, but he also likely has some constraints.   
 

Van Everyman

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What does that mean, tho? This isn't MLB. Does the NFLPA have any real leverage in these situations, much less with superstars like Manning and Brady to whom a different set of rules clearly applies?
 

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Van Everyman said:
What does that mean, tho? This isn't MLB. Does the NFLPA have any real leverage in these situations, much less with superstars like Manning and Brady to whom a different set of rules clearly applies?
I don't know if they have leverage, but they definitely have an interest in keeping their wages up - as it kind of sets the market for other QBs and also affects the franchise tag number.
 

Ed Hillel

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JohnnyK said:
I don't know if they have leverage, but they definitely have an interest in keeping their wages up - as it kind of sets the market for other QBs and also affects the franchise tag number.
 
While I do understand this line of thought, we are talking about the quarterback position here, which is arguably the most important position of the 4 major sports. The good ones are going to get paid what they want within reason, regardless of if a few are willing to take hometown discounts, even the elite.
 

RedOctober3829

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Broncos coach Gary Kubiak is cheaper to please than quarterback Peyton Manning.
Denver is now a championship contender on a budget.
On the opening day of NFL free agency, front-office executive John Elway did what's best for his new coach and the bottom line rather than what might be most appealing to Manning, who has expensive tastes.
So say goodbye to sensational tight end Julius Thomas, who took his sublime talent and tender body to beautiful downtown Jacksonville, where the gosh-awful Jaguars are closing in on a deal that will pay him a salary of approximately $9 million per year.
The Broncos are now all about the down-and-dirty, lunch-bucket mentality of Virgil Green, who was retained as a free agent to play tight end alongside Denver newcomer Owen Daniels, whose photo appears next to no-nonsense in the NFL dictionary.
After signing Green to a three-year contract Tuesday, Elway said: "He's the type of guy that we want on the Denver Broncos and a guy that has the mentality of the hard work that it takes to be successful. ... We think the sky is the limit for Virgil, and we think he will flourish in what we're going to offensively now."
Getting the message, Broncos Country?
 
If Elway learned anything from the last NFL season, it's an expensive lesson that will serve him and his franchise well moving in the future:
Money can turn the head of Pro Bowl players and persuade them that relocating to Denver is a very appealing idea.
But money can't buy a championship.
Denver spent fast and furiously in free agency a year ago. When it stopped raining cash at Dove Valley in 2014, Elway had put together an all-star lineup that included cornerback Aqib Talib, safety T.J. Ward and defensive end DeMarcus Ware. All three newcomers earned invitations to the Pro Bowl as first-year employees of the Broncos.
 
But none of them got a Super Bowl ring.
During each of the past three seasons, when the going got really tough in the playoffs, the Broncos folded. They were too much finesse and too little nasty. With justification, Elway complained his locker room did not have enough players who went down kicking and screaming.
With all due respect to Mr. Elway, who built this Denver team that took a knee at the first sign of adversity or could not handle the white-hot glare and noise at the Super Bowl?
The Broncos are a team whose national image will be again be defined by Manning. As much as Manning will hate it, he will be saluted by television broadcasters and cheered in visiting stadiums throughout this season as a football legend playing the dying minutes of the fourth quarter in his brilliant career.
In important ways as obvious as the emphasis Elway placed on retaining the services of Green, the Broncos are a team in transition. Kubiak was hired to bring a smash-mouth, no-nonsense toughness to a franchise that needs to junk its fancy pants and pull on some steel-toe boots if it wants to kick booty in the playoffs.
For at least another year, Manning will play quarterback for the Broncos.
Elway, however, has called an audible on the type of team he wants to see wearing orange and blue on NFL Sundays.
The farewell to No. 18 has begun in earnest.
In ways that are impossible to ignore, the Manning era is already over.
 
http://www.denverpost.com/kiszla/ci_27687216/kiszla-broncos-already-transition-post-manning
 

Marciano490

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That sounds like macho sportswriter crap.  They lost because their QB couldn't throw downfield and they abandoned the running game against a team that can't stop the run. 
 

86spike

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The Manning window is only open a crack at this point.  Sure, everything might break the right way and Denver might win a SB, but the odds of that happening are less now than they were in 2012, 13 or 14.  
 
Julius Thomas is primarily gone because he cannot/will not block effectively.  Kubiak's offense needs his TEs to help pass protect much mores than Adam Gase's scheme over the last few years.  That, coupled with JT's injury issues sealed the deal for him in Denver.
 
Virgil Green is an interesting case.  He is pretty athletic and excels at blocking.  He's never really been a receiving target, so no one knows is that's something he can do well.  Elway's stroke job about him is hot air until proven otherwise.  Owen Daniels is a fine veteran short term fill in who knows Kubiak's game.  This is an overall talent downgrade, but the scheme might make it less so.  
 
JT's Redzone targets will go to Daniels, Sanders and maybe the RBs.  
 
Shrug.
 

j-man

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my 02 cents on denver moves   
 
DL V Walker  will start or be a key backup can stop the run tailed off in KC but was good for Oak 
Lg S Smith   this might work fits what denver wants     in their G just can he stay on the field      
FS D Stewart  Whispers that B Roby might move to FS   but if he does not i expect stewart to start over burton     
TE O Danels  was a steal here   u might want to target him in your fan draft  in the 8th 9 th rounds    
 
whispers elway will take a qb early so in case oz leaves after next year we have someone to groom behind manning    i would be very happy if we got b hundley at 28  but if we draft grayson pretty bust city    
 
draft needs 
1 RT 
2 ILB 
3 QB  
4 C 
5 P 
6 Nickel CB 
7 Speed WR   
 

Marciano490

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May I ask why you like Hundley? He's fairly mobile, which works in Kubiak's system, but I didn't see anything from him at ucla that'd make me think he'll be more than an average pro.
 

j-man

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Marciano490 said:
May I ask why you like Hundley? He's fairly mobile, which works in Kubiak's system, but I didn't see anything from him at ucla that'd make me think he'll be more than an average pro.
Sure  Oz is a huge ? and hundley  has more potential than the ob from baylor  jim mora jr  was his coach  so he knows some pro sets    i wouild rather have a qb in 2016 but manning is 50/50 for 2016   and i think some team will offer Oz 5-7 mil a year at QB   CLE Philly STL   Zona i like the QB from Col ST  but he is a 3rd 4th round pick  and a low end starter top 15 20   
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Sure  Oz is a huge ? and hundley  has more potential than the ob from baylor  jim mora jr  was his coach  so he knows some pro sets    i wouild rather have a qb in 2016 but manning is 50/50 for 2016   and i think some team will offer Oz 5-7 mil a year at QB   CLE Philly STL   Zona i like the QB from Col ST  but he is a 3rd 4th round pick  and a low end starter top 15 20
Can I ask why you don't use punctuation? Seems like you have something interesting to say but the lack of sentence structure combined with lack of punctuation makes it hard to figure out.
 
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