2015-2016 NBA Game Thread

Sam Ray Not

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Fun NBA historical comparison.

On Feb 2, 1968, Wilt Chamberlain dished 21 assists in a game v. the Pistons.

In his NBA career (1,917 total minutes over four seasons), Hassan Whiteside has dished ... wait for it ... 11 assists.
 
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gingerbreadmann

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Is anyone watching Cavs-Thunder? Lebron bitched profusely about not getting a call in the third quarter, which I thought was an obvious no-call, and since then he and the Cavs have gotten every single 50-50 call including an and-1 where Lebron dribbled(!!!) in between the whistle and the shot. The Cavs have no doubt played much better since being in a 10-point hole in the 3rd and probably deserve to win but these calls at every turn have let them get in a crazy rhythm.

I know none of this is new, and it's a home game for them too, but still frustrating to watch that shit get rewarded when anyone else in the league would have gotten a T at the very least for the initial complaining he did.

Edit: and I by and large like Lebron; don't mean to complain about him or the Cavs overall. I was just hoping for a better game down the stretch although the Thunder have done more than their share to screw themselves over.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Just flipped it on in time to see all 250 pounds of him land on a 100 pound woman at full speed.

edit: Lebron's a good dude. Went straight over to check on her when time was called a minute later.

double edit: Jason Day's wife?
 

gingerbreadmann

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Yeah, that doesn't look too good (being taken out on a stretcher). Nothing she really could have done to avoid that. Good to see him check up on her.

Also possibly Jason Day's girlfriend?

Edit: They showed Manziel sitting courtside earlier, can you imagine if that happened to him?
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Not on national TV.

Oh sorry, I thought I heard somebody ask "where was this Rockets team against the Nets twice?"
 

gingerbreadmann

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To be fair, I think the Lakers are in a different class than the Nets. Or at least they are tonight defensively. The Rockets probably could have put up 70 in the first half.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Congrats to Clint Capela, potentially the last guy ever posterized by Kobe.

On a related note, Kobe has also thrown up at least two airballs and front-rimmed four free throws. This is fun.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Just flipped it on in time to see all 250 pounds of him land on a 100 pound woman at full speed.

edit: Lebron's a good dude. Went straight over to check on her when time was called a minute later.

double edit: Jason Day's wife?
Is anyone else waiting for someone in the media to hammer Day for failing to protect his wife with LeBron sprinting toward her? Wouldn't you instinctually cover your wife and take the hit in that spot?
 

nattysez

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Warriors just played their worst half all season. The talk that their D is not what it was last year certainly seems to be borne out so far tonight.
 

jon abbey

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Amazing game in CHI, DET and CHI end up going to 4 OTs with each team missing countless chances to win. DET took the lead early in the 4th OT, and barely held on despite having three players foul out before it was over, 147-144, first 4 OT game in the NBA since March 2012.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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I know it comes from a desire to get calls right but I hate the video review on out of bounds calls. There used to be such a nice unspoken trade-off where the refs wouldn't call over the back-type fouls and would just give the ball to the team that had inside position even if they touched it last (but were fouled). Now, though, a guy with inside position gets fouled, no call, ball flies out of bounds, refs are compelled to review the play but can't retroactively call the foul and must give the ball to the wrong team.
 

jon abbey

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Yeah, I've said that here before, the NBA should fix that sometime.
 

jon abbey

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The Clippers blew another game to a top team that they were leading all game, is that even news at this point? They're a combined 0-7 now against GS/SA/HOU/OKC/DAL.
 

HomeRunBaker

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They have no balance on offense. 100% predictable. Pick n roll with Paul and DeAndre, pick n pop with Paul and Blake.....when either break down Redick curls off a screen as the option or Paul goes iso when that is defended.

Literally every single time down the floor and the defense is a step ahead of them every single time as they know what is coming. They are the Utah Jazz of the Stockton/Malone/Hornacek era.......good enough to win 50+ games every year but their playoff ceiling isn't high.
 

swingin val

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Not sure who it was that set the pick to free Durant for that last second shot, but man, that would have been called a foul (penalty) in a football game. Literally shoved him in the back while moving.
 

Sprowl

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The Raptors beat the Mavericks by shooting 12 of 26 three-pointers. Bismack Biyombo is looking like a more limber Mutombo. He's long to start with and he can jump over anybody.

Rick Carlisle blasts his players after the game: "if that's the way it's gonna be, some of these guys won't be Mavericks for long".

They'll probably trade Novitzki, tank and finish with the 11th draft pick.
 

beezer

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Not sure who it was that set the pick to free Durant for that last second shot, but man, that would have been called a foul (penalty) in a football game. Literally shoved him in the back while moving.
Quoting because the NBA came out today and said Durant's jumper shouldn't have counted because of the illegal screen by Ibaka and that Paul should have been given an and 1 on the prior play. I'm sure Doc will now celebrate this moral victory for a team that really needed to win the game.
 

The Social Chair

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The National Basketball Association, alarmed by the death toll from shootings across the country, is stepping directly into the polarizing debate over guns, regulation and the Second Amendment with an unusual advertising campaign in partnership with one of the nation’s most aggressive advocates of stricter limits on firearm sales.

In a move with little precedent in professional sports, the N.B.A. is putting the weight of its multibillion-dollar brand and the prestige of its star athletes behind a series of television commercials calling for an end to gun violence.
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/12/24/sports/basketball/nba-gun-violence-campaign-michael-bloomberg.html
 

HomeRunBaker

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Quoting because the NBA came out today and said Durant's jumper shouldn't have counted because of the illegal screen by Ibaka and that Paul should have been given an and 1 on the prior play. I'm sure Doc will now celebrate this moral victory for a team that really needed to win the game.
When has moral victories ever been a part of Doc's persona? I always think of him as the polar opposite of that.
 

beezer

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When has moral victories ever been a part of Doc's persona? I always think of him as the polar opposite of that.
Was being sarcastic. As you said, Doc is probably still flipping out over the call and the league admitting they messed up is only twisting the knife
 

luckiestman

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I'm @ Rockets and Magic and they are pumping so much fucking noise in here I might go deaf
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Billy King is committing (more) managerial malpractice if he isn't working the phones like crazy to find someone willing to buy high on Thad Young. Playing well on a decent contract but he isn't going to be a FA draw, there's not much he can do to help the current team win games, and they need the picks. I mean, you have to try to do something to help the future of a team that's on pace to win like 22 games.
 

bowiac

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Not sure who really needs Thad Yong. He's not a bad player, but low-end stretch 4 is more or less the deepest position in the game right now. I guess Washington could use him, as a better version of Humphries, but Dudley's playing pretty well right now, and might be better suited for the 4 at this point (plus Porter/Oubre...).

If someone was convinced he had the quickness to move back to the wing then he'd be a nice commodity.
 

BigSoxFan

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He's also only made 1 three this year so he's not even really a stretch 4. Brooklyn might be able to get a protected future pick similar to what the Celtics got for Green but that really doesn't do the Nets much good since it makes them worse and they have nothing to gain by getting worse.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Billy King is committing (more) managerial malpractice if he isn't working the phones like crazy to find someone willing to buy high on Thad Young. Playing well on a decent contract but he isn't going to be a FA draw, there's not much he can do to help the current team win games, and they need the picks. I mean, you have to try to do something to help the future of a team that's on pace to win like 22 games.
You have to be competitive too though and the return on Thad doesn't figure to be more than a low first or a future 1st with higher upside but years away. Trading Thad now puts you one more Bropez foot injury away from your team becoming the Sixers which is a significant downside when the upside in the return wouldn't appear to be great. You're probably better off trotting him out there for 30-35 mpg game knowing he's going to give you 16/8 and decent defense while helping you put a somewhat competitive product on the floor.
 

bowiac

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Well, getting a pick back is valuable in itself, since the Nets don't have many of those right now. But I'm also not sure who would give a protected pick for him - I went through every roster quickly and Washington was the closest I could find. Maybe missing something of course, and there's always injuries, but I get why King hasn't moved him yet.
 

oumbi

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These just in...

Portland leads Cleveland at half by TWENTY NINE POINTS.

Philly up over Phoenix by 10 with 5 minutes left in the game.

Pigs have started sprouting wings throughout the world.

And, ice skates are in high demand in hades.

Updates later.
 

oumbi

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It's official. Philly beats Phoenix 111 to 104 for their second victory of the season. Ish, by the way, had 5 assists and 14 points. Ish paid immediate dividends it seems.
 

HomeRunBaker

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No Okafor for Philly.....they win 2nd game of the year.
No Lillard for Portland....they beat EC Champs by 30.

If you don't show up to play in this league crazy things can happen to you. Suns Eric Bledsoe helped off court putting very little pressure on his left knee the same one he had meniscus surgery on last year. Uh oh.
 

bowiac

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Philly playing better without Okafor makes sense - he's been awful. Worse than the d-leaguers populating the rest of their roster.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Philly playing better without Okafor makes sense - he's been awful. Worse than the d-leaguers populating the rest of their roster.
I don't buy that at all. Teams play better without their best player all the time especially in the first game when players have a greater sense of urgency and opportunity. Talent wins out in this league over time and he's far and away Philly's most talented player......of course the bar is pretty low with that roster.
 

radsoxfan

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I don't buy that at all. Teams play better without their best player all the time especially in the first game when players have a greater sense of urgency and opportunity. Talent wins out in this league over time and he's far and away Philly's most talented player......of course the bar is pretty low with that roster.
I agree 1 game alone doesn't really tell us much. But though Okafor may be the most talented guy on the roster or the one with the most potential, but that doesn't mean he is currently the best.

I haven't watched the Sixers at all this year, but I do find his RPM interesting. Dead last in the NBA at -6.90. Kind of hard to believe at first glance given he is averaging 18 puts, 8 rebs on 46% shooting with an above average PER. I'm sure Bowiac or others can explain why that is, but regardless, it makes you wonder whats up with Okafor and/or RPM in general.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I agree 1 game alone doesn't really tell us much. But though Okafor may be the most talented guy on the roster or the one with the most potential, but that doesn't mean he is currently the best.

I haven't watched the Sixers at all this year, but I do find his RPM interesting. Dead last in the NBA at -6.90. Kind of hard to believe at first glance given he is averaging 18 puts, 8 rebs on 46% shooting with an above average PER. I'm sure Bowiac or others can explain why that is, but regardless, it makes you wonder whats up with Okafor and/or RPM in general.
I feel analytics for a 1-28 team (or whatever their record is) where many of the games are blowouts by halftime can't really tell you a whole lot as there is so much noise in them. Half of these games are garbage time with the end of teams benched on the floor......possibly much of the time when Okafor is on the bench making him appear worse than some of his FAR inferior teammates. I'm only guessing on that last part but any of the Sixers numbers have to be taken with a big grain of salt.
 

bowiac

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RPM takes game-state into account, and adjusts for the "garbage-time" effect. You're correct team let up when up by a lot, but unless teams are letting up on the Sixers more than other teams trailing by 20, then that's not what's going on. Further, if you look to his BPM, you'll see it's -5.1. BPM is purely box-score based, and doesn't get thrown off by this issue. His plain box-score stats are awful (one of the worst in the NBA). BPM has other issues, but his RPM isn't some weird plus/minus voodoo that we can't understand. A strong box-score stat like BPM can see the problem too.

Talent wins out in this league I agree, but rookies are almost never value added. Towns and Porzingis are the exceptions, not the rule. The list of 19 year olds who are good in their first season is basically a list of HOFers, plus a few random one-offs. It's not surprising RPM and BPM hate him, or that the Sixers play much better with him off the court.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I dunno how much this factors into Okafor going up against starting units while the reserves aren't but this doesn't pass the smell test for me. He is 19 yet appears to be the only player on the floor at any time with any semblance of what is going on and how to play the game. I'd put O'Connell as another however he doesn't have the physical capabilities while Noel would be great if he never crossed half court. Any metric that has Wroten, Staukas, and Canaan ahead of the one guy who appears to have a clue doesn't do it for me.
 

radsoxfan

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For people who have watched Okafor play, what is he doing offensively that's SO terrible. His awful RPM for example is mostly from his ORPM. In fact, he has the 2nd worst ORPM in the league, ahead of only teammate Nerlens Noel.

But a first pass look at his stats to me sees a guy with a pretty bad TS%, below average reb%, someone who doesn't pass well but also doesn't turn it over much, and scores at a decent clip. Seems like offensively he's obviously not been very good or even average, but I wouldn't look at his numbers and think he's the worst offensive player in the league. What is he actually doing out there thats so much worse than his middling numbers suggest? Is it just as simple as a pretty bad player using a lot of possessions turns into a horrible player? How has Kobe managed an ORPM of 0.19 this year with that USG rate?
 

HomeRunBaker

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Okafor rarely is involved in an offensive set that has flow or proper spacing. That has to affect his performance and the addition of Ish Smith should "begin" to help in this area but others are often scrambling recklessly without any offensive continuity. Much of this begins with not having a competent PG to initiate the offense but also your wings are terrible entry passers and when Noel is the 4 the spacing is terrible. He's the Sixers only legitimate offensive option to get shots yet a metric that doesn't take into account what I mentioned above is saying he is among the worst in the entire league......when he does get the ball in his sweet spot he scores at a good rate. The Sixers are such an outlier in how one interprets stats due to their inability to function as a unit in a halfcourt offense.
 

bowiac

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Any metric that has Wroten, Staukas, and Canaan ahead of the one guy who appears to have a clue doesn't do it for me.
Okafor being awful isn't a hill I'm about to die on, but this is backwards to me. The whole point of analytics is (hopefully) to teach us stuff, not to confirm what we already think. You're free to disregard RPM with respect to Okafor - it's not a perfect stat by any means, but I don't think this is the most solid line of reasoning why.

With respect to Okafor, I think what's going on is largely the Sixers attempt to use him and Noel together. That combo has a mind boggling -25.6 net rating when they're on the court together (about six points worse than Okafor's overall rating). It's just a terrible idea, so Okafor is barely being given a shot to succeed in those minutes. Even if were good, he'd be screwed. That said, he's only spent ~40% of his minutes on the floor with Noel, and he has a raw +/- of -14.4 so far this year. The Sixers have been dramatically better when Okafor is off the court, and that can't all be blamed on the spacing issues Noel presents.

I wonder what Kobe's secret to a positive ORPM is. He has a TS% of 44.9%, with more FGA per game than Okafor.
This is why BPM is useful. Lets you unpack what RPM is "seeing." Apart from FG%, basically every aspect of his game favors Kobe. He's got a decent steals rate (which helps offense as well as defense), he shoots a ton of threes (spacing impact), he has triple the assists and fewer turnovers. Finally, BPM includes a interaction factor of AST%*TRB%, which basically serves to reward out of position stats (boards from a guard, or assists from a big). Okafor gets credit for neither. He's a poor passing, poor rebounding big.

I'm a little surprised the FG% difference doesn't overwhelm it, but it's hard to eyeball BPM because it's nonlinear.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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James Harden just elbowed Andrew Bogut in the throat and surprisingly got called for a flagrant one. You know what else is flagrant? The Rockets flagrant disregard for playing defense of any sort.
 

Sam Ray Not

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No Curry, no Barnes, no Ezeli, no Barbosa. No problem.

Warriors cruise in Houston for their 11th win in their last 12 games v. the Rockets. As DBMH says, minimal defense was played by the home team (lots of false hustle and gambling steal attempts that occasionally forced turnovers, but more often left the Ws wide open for layups on back door cuts). Remarkable contrast between the discipline of the Mavs (who have far less overall talent than the Rockets, imho) and the silliness of the Rockets. Dwight Howard was laughing throughout, of course.

Never overestimate the heart of a non-champion, I guess... ;)