2014 Training Camp Thread

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Ed Hillel

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Oh, wow, I thought you could be PUP'ed any point during preseason. I fear IR, since BB doesn't seem to like to carry injured players if he can avoid it.

Separate question, would the arm be in a sling for just a broken hand? Or does that indicate a wrist/forearm injury as well?
 
RedOctober3829

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Ed Hillel said:
Oh, wow, I thought you could be PUP'ed any point during preseason. I fear IR, since BB doesn't seem to like to carry injured players if he can avoid it.

Separate question, would the arm be in a sling for just a broken hand? Or does that indicate a wrist/forearm injury as well?
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I think he'll carry Siliga as he's pretty important to the DL depth.  Adrian Wilson was not carried last year because he really didn't show much in preseason.  If there's a chance he's back before Week 9, they'd carry him.
 
If it's a broken wrist, then yes I'd agree it's IR.
 
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@BenVolin: #Patriots have signed TE Ben Hartsock, according to his agent

@BenVolin: More TE moves for the #Patriots: Source confirms that TE Justin Jones has also been released, along with Asa Watson
 
soxfan121

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5. In making a list of Patriots players who need to step up, receiver Josh Boyce would be near the top. Boyce inexplicably lined up offside to negate a third-down conversion in the preseason opener, which is the type of mental mistake that most irritates Bill Belichick. On top of that, Boyce’s effort as a run blocker looks like it could use a spark, as there was one play that looked like a half-effort. When I think of part of what has defined Patriots receivers of late, the willingness to get feisty downfield and on crack blocks is part of the identity. I’m curious to see how Boyce, a 2013 fourth-round pick, responds this week. 
 
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Reiss.
 
Boyce seems like he's about to join the Chad Jackson/Bethel Johnson/PK Sam/Patriots Can't Develop a WR club. If effort is a problem he's probably gone in the first cutdown, which is shocking and disappointing from a 4th round pick. That said, if effort is a problem, get him gone and the draft pick status does not matter. He has not had one impressive moment in the uniform. 
 
Devizier

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Is it really that disappointing when a 4th rounder gets cut? Boyce has played more downs than all but a handful of 4th rounders from last year's draft, which just shows what a long shot late draft picks really are.
 
Tony C

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Nope, it's not -- not sure why Reiss still has Boyce making the 53-man. Seems to me to be a fair assumption that he'll be a cut, particularly if Dobson makes it back, though that's far from a certainty. Probably Boyce's best shot at making the 53-man is if Dobson ends up on PUP at the start of the season (at least until binky Tyms gets off from his suspension!).
 
JerBear

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Tony C said:
Nope, it's not -- not sure why Reiss still has Boyce making the 53-man. Seems to me to be a fair assumption that he'll be a cut, particularly if Dobson makes it back, though that's far from a certainty. Probably Boyce's best shot at making the 53-man is if Dobson ends up on PUP at the start of the season (at least until binky Tyms gets off from his suspension!).
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I think Boyce's best bet is that Finch keeps having the yips. I imagine they will carry one of either Finch or Boyce for KR and bottom of the depth chart skill position player.
 
lexrageorge

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Devizier said:
Is it really that disappointing when a 4th rounder gets cut? Boyce has played more downs than all but a handful of 4th rounders from last year's draft, which just shows what a long shot late draft picks really are.
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It's not unusual for a 4th round pick to flame out.  But it's still disappointing, in that team's usually hope to find serviceable players in that round, even if they end up being role players.  The 2003-04 Patriots benefited mightily from having Asante Samuel, Dan Koppen, and Jarvis Green on their roster.  
 
What's also disappointing in that the pick was used to fill a glaring team need at the time.  To some extent, the need is reduced a bit this year.  And if either Thompkins or Tyms pan out to any degree, or if Dobson is able to return healthy and effective, then the loss of Boyce is truly not a big deal.  
 
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The Patriots normally carry six wide receivers (not including Slater). As far as we know Dobson will likely get PUPed and Tyms is suspended. That leaves only four receivers who certainly make the initial 53 man roster.
Amedola
Edelman
Lafell
Thomkins
 
If they cut Boyce, then who else makes it? They could scavenge the waiver wire and/or bring back Austin Collie. Although really two WRs will likely be needed.
 
amarshal2

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Eric Ampersand said:
The Patriots normally carry six wide receivers (not including Slater). As far as we know Dobson will likely get PUPed and Tyms is suspended. That leaves only four receivers who certainly make the initial 53 man roster.
Amedola
Edelman
Lafell
Thomkins
 
If they cut Boyce, then who else makes it? They could scavenge the waiver wire and/or bring back Austin Collie. Although really two WRs will likely be needed.
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Gallon?  If he resumes playing again I think he's got a shot.  They thought enough of him to draft him when there were plenty of other guys at other positions of need on the board.
 
It's not clear Dobson will be PUP'ed yet.
 
Tony C

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I think there's no doubt Boyce makes the roster if Dobson is PUP'd, but as amarshal says that's still a big "if." If not, then it's really a Gallon/Tyms (or someone from some other team's cut list) vs Boyce for that last slot. The smart money would be on Boyce given that he was at least semi-competent last year when on the field and has a year's experience in the system. The binky money is on Gallon/Tyms because the grass is always greener, but also because BB does have a fish or cut bait record -- if Boyce isn't doing it (and he isn't) we know this is a team that will move on quickly.
 
RedOctober3829

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amarshal2 said:
Gallon?  If he resumes playing again I think he's got a shot.  They thought enough of him to draft him when there were plenty of other guys at other positions of need on the board.
 
It's not clear Dobson will be PUP'ed yet.
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I think Dobson gets this week to see if he can come back to practice.  If not, he stays on PUP.
 
soxfan121

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RedOctober3829 said:
I think Dobson gets this week to see if he can come back to practice.  If not, he stays on PUP.
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I don't even think they'll push him this week. PUP is a free roster spot/player acquisition and there is ZERO reason to rush the guy back and risk re-aggravating the injury. With PUP, he gets the free weeks of practice (without counting against the roster max) so he can be reintegrated when he's 100%. 
 
Focus on getting LaFell./Thompkins/Tyms/Boyce/etc. as many reps as possible around Edelman & Amendola and roll with that for the first half of the season.
 
Dobson's not important enough to rush back and too important to risk long term...if that makes any sense. Patience.
 
Super Nomario

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soxfan121 said:
 
I don't even think they'll push him this week. PUP is a free roster spot/player acquisition and there is ZERO reason to rush the guy back and risk re-aggravating the injury. With PUP, he gets the free weeks of practice (without counting against the roster max) so he can be reintegrated when he's 100%. 
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If he's on PUP, he can't practice until week 6. If they think he'll be ready to resume practice week 2 or so, I think they'd just put him on the 53-man and keep him inactive for a few weeks.
 
Stitch01

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They won't rush him back, but he's not going to sit on the PUP for six weeks if they think he'll be ready to go in the first couple of weeks of the season.
 
Ed Hillel

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Reiss said Stork was doing some drills out of uniform and looked fine with his lower body, so potentially good news there.
 
caminante11

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Is there any downside to keeping Tyms around?  Since he's suspended, he wouldn't count on the 53 man roster and could always be released after the suspension if there is no spot availalble.
 
RedOctober3829

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caminante11 said:
Is there any downside to keeping Tyms around?  Since he's suspended, he wouldn't count on the 53 man roster and could always be released after the suspension if there is no spot availalble.
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No, there really isn't.  He will not have to count against the 53 man roster so between him and Browner you'd be operating until Week 5 with a 55 man roster.  I was talking about this with Chris Price yesterday and we both think this will happen.  Another good point to keeping around for Weeks 1-4 is that it will be easier to sneak him through to the practice squad.
 
Stitch01

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He'll probably stick, the practice squad point is a good one, and there's not much downside if any.  Given its unlikely Tyms would make the 53 ourright, it probably doesn't help them much with the 53 man roster out of the box unless it makes them comfortable enough to cut Boyce (or much less likely at this point, LaFell) when they otherwise wouldn't have since they have Tyms on a shadow roster.
 
epraz

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caminante11 said:
Is there any downside to keeping Tyms around?  Since he's suspended, he wouldn't count on the 53 man roster and could always be released after the suspension if there is no spot availalble.
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Not a downside per se, but I think Tyms would have to be on the 53-man roster at some point, meaning they'd have to cut the 54th man (risking another team signing him) and then re-sign him after Tyms' suspension begins.  Same with Browner.
 
RedOctober3829

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Stitch01 said:
He'll probably stick, the practice squad point is a good one, and there's not much downside if any.  Given its unlikely Tyms would make the 53 ourright, it probably doesn't help them much with the 53 man roster out of the box unless it makes them comfortable enough to cut Boyce (or much less likely at this point, LaFell) when they otherwise wouldn't have since they have Tyms on a shadow roster.
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It actually helps them in this matter.  It gives Boyce what amounts to a 4 week tryout to see if he has enough to warrant a spot over Tyms instead of having to choose between them before Week 1.
 
Stitch01

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It does give Boyce a tryout, but I don't think they're going to a ton of new information on either guy during weeks 1-4 unless wideouts start getting hurt (which likely means more receivers stay). 

Regardless, if he shows much of anything the last three weeks of preseason he'll be on the roster for the reasons you mentioned.
 
caminante11

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epraz said:
 
Not a downside per se, but I think Tyms would have to be on the 53-man roster at some point, meaning they'd have to cut the 54th man (risking another team signing him) and then re-sign him after Tyms' suspension begins.  Same with Browner.
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Are you sure about this?  Mike Reiss writes:  "Because Browner is suspended for the first four regular-season games, he won't count against the initial 53-man roster limit."  That would mean they would not cut someone at final cutdowns for that spot but would need to at the end of the suspension.
 
dynomite

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epraz said:
Not a downside per se, but I think Tyms would have to be on the 53-man roster at some point, meaning they'd have to cut the 54th man (risking another team signing him) and then re-sign him after Tyms' suspension begins.  Same with Browner.
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Do we have a clear answer to this question? I've seen it asked a number of times and haven't seen chapter and verse either way.

My impression is that suspended players do NOT count toward the initial 53-man roster cutdown, and immediately go on the "Suspended" list until after Week 4.

In other words, Tyms (and Browner) don't have to make the 53-man roster in August, the team can wait until the first week of October to decide whether/how to make room for them.

See, e.g., http://www.vikings.com/news/article-1/Vikings-Get-To-53-Man-Roster-Limit-Announce-Cuts/35270d4b-1aed-409c-a419-8c4456d5ba13

Nothing in there about the Vikings having to cut to fill the 2 suspended spots AFTER the cutdown.

This page seems to corroborate that: http://insidefootball.com/2013/07/22/a-review-of-roster-designations-eligibilities/
 
RedOctober3829

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dynomite said:
Do we have a clear answer to this question? I've seen it asked a number of times and haven't seen chapter and verse either way.

My impression is that suspended players do NOT count toward the initial 53-man roster cutdown, and immediately go on the "Suspended" list until after Week 4.

In other words, Tyms (and Browner) don't have to make the 53-man roster in August, the team can wait until the first week of October to decide whether/how to make room for them.

See, e.g., http://www.vikings.com/news/article-1/Vikings-Get-To-53-Man-Roster-Limit-Announce-Cuts/35270d4b-1aed-409c-a419-8c4456d5ba13

Nothing in there about the Vikings having to cut to fill the 2 suspended spots AFTER the cutdown.

This page seems to corroborate that: http://insidefootball.com/2013/07/22/a-review-of-roster-designations-eligibilities/
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Yes this is correct.  I explained this situation a couple of posts above.
 
SeoulSoxFan

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RedOctober3829 said:
Malcom Butler is having a really good camp so far.  Impressed by him so far.
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Apparently Dexter Swanson has shown up here and there as well.
 
Now, given all the mentions Butler got (and what we've seen from game 1 PS) so far, the odd money is on him to be this year's UDFA that makes it onto the squad, jumping ahead of Finch. 
 
Super Nomario

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SeoulSoxFan said:
 
Apparently Dexter Swanson has shown up here and there as well.
 
Now, given all the mentions Butler got (and what we've seen from game 1 PS) so far, the odd money is on him to be this year's UDFA that makes it onto the squad, jumping ahead of Finch. 
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Of course it's not limited to one - last year, Thompkins, Vellano, Sudfeld, ya boy Ryan Allen, and Josh Kline all made the opening day squad (with some of those guys leaving but more jumping on at various points). 2012 saw Brandon Bolden, Justin Francis, Mike Rivera, and Marcus Forston. History tells us it wouldn't be a surprise to see 3 or 4 guys make it.
 
Eck'sSneakyCheese

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RedOctober3829 said:
Malcom Butler is having a really good camp so far.  Impressed by him so far.
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If he has another good game this week blanketing the Philly receivers, I've found my new binky.
 
LondonSox

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With the Eagles coming to town I'm going to engage this thread, so if you guys want to chat or have any questions/ thoughts around Eagles players I'm very happy to discuss etc.
 
I'll be very interested to see how the newer defensive backs do, Jenkins (has looked great in camp), Corroll (likewise) and Boykin who if you don't know him is the best slot corner in the league for me (and maybe best gunner too).
 
I'll be interested to see how Matthews does, he's been the talk of camp so far but wasn't so great in pre season game 1.
 
I'll be interested to see who can generate a rush if anyone (I think Curry is a monster but bad scheme fit and only plays passing downs).
 
Sanchez (!) has looked good in camp and appears to be locking down the back up QB spot.
 
Chip and Bill the bromance resumes.
 
wutang112878

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I'm trying to project the Eagles offense this year and would love to hear your thoughts. 
 
On positive side, they seemed to get better as the year went on last year and they handed the job over to Foles.  However, now all opposing coaches have had an off-season to digest and plan for Kelly's offense, they lost their best receiver in Jackson and there is just no way that Foles can have that TD to INT rate again.  My take is that Kelly is a good coach and will keep the team above average on offense, but I just dont see how they could be a top 5 team in scoring again this year.
 
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