2014 Cowboys: Deja vu all over again

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LondonSox

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The only real arguing/ fighting I saw was Witten, he was pretty pissed off for a lot of the second half had a couple of goes at Romo etc.
Dez does that all the time and is trying to be supportive, I don think he's being a problem or shouting but trying to motivate and fire people up, passionate guy.
 

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I don't ever read ESPN, but the headline for this popping up in my Gmail this morning caught my eye:
 
 
Tony Romo has been dealing with the effects of back surgery this past offseason and two transverse process fractures, and the Dallas Cowboys quarterback let it slip Thursday night that he also has been playing through a broken rib for the better part of two months.
 
http://espn.go.com/dallas/nfl/story/_/id/11982008/tony-romo-dallas-cowboys-playing-broken-rib-addition-back-issues
 
Just goes to show how tenuous their position really is. Between that and DeMarco Murray on pace to break the Cowboys record for rushes in a season, from here on out they will be one play away from their season going up in a cloud of smoke.
 

jsinger121

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[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHa4hUTWydw[/media]
 
Huge win for the Cowboys last night. In the past that is a game they somehow lose.
 

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If Romo is hurt, why was he in the 4th quarter when they were getting waxed by Philly and when they were kicking Jacksonville's ass?
 

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jsinger121 said:
Huge win for the Cowboys last night. In the past that is a game they somehow lose.
 
Definitely. That had all the trappings of a classic Cowboys loss (I feel as though we've said that a few times this year already). And though the defense did everything they could in the 4th quarter to make that happen, the offense was pretty much unstoppable in the second half.
 
In other news, I'm starting to develop a serious man crush for Zach Martin. Not only is he decidedly NOT Johnny Manziel (let's be honest, that's a huge point in his favor), but he's a monster. Every time I look at him, he's either flattening someone or is out in front of a sweep or screen pass. It's not likely that a right guard would win rookie of the year, but he has to at least be in the conversation.
 

LondonSox

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ShaneTrot said:
If Romo is hurt, why was he in the 4th quarter when they were getting waxed by Philly and when they were kicking Jacksonville's ass?
 
I'm confused by this too. ESP vs Philly when he was clearly not right and the Eagles pass rush was really starting to heat up.
I read that he missed the weekly injection he's getting in his back vs Philly due to the short week, so he expects to feel much better next week for the return.
 
Injections into your back EVERY WEEK to be able to play is not a good look. Given the money committed to Romo and no backup plan I'm pretty gobsmacked they are being so willing to leave him in for extra hits etc in meaningless downs. But that said it is a big season for the Cowboys. Bryant and Murray are free agents next year and if they lose one or both it will impact the offense.
 

Bosoxen

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LondonSox said:
 
I'm confused by this too. ESP vs Philly when he was clearly not right and the Eagles pass rush was really starting to heat up.
I read that he missed the weekly injection he's getting in his back vs Philly due to the short week, so he expects to feel much better next week for the return.
 
Injections into your back EVERY WEEK to be able to play is not a good look. Given the money committed to Romo and no backup plan I'm pretty gobsmacked they are being so willing to leave him in for extra hits etc in meaningless downs. But that said it is a big season for the Cowboys. Bryant and Murray are free agents next year and if they lose one or both it will impact the offense.
 
If I remember correctly, the shots were for the transverse fracture, not for the injury that was surgically repaired. It's entirely possible, in light of this new information, that they're also for the ribs.
 
But yeah, that makes the fact that they're leaving him in there way too long even more confusing. Like I said, they're one play away from their season going boom. Fate/luck/whatever you want to call it does not care whether it occurs on a meaningful play in the second quarter or a meaningless play in garbage time in the 4th. If he's out there a minute longer than is necessary, the coaching staff is taking an unnecessary risk.
 
That, combined with Murray touching the ball 41 times last night just absolutely reeks of Jerry's influence.
 

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Weeden was warming up to come in last night and then the defense/ST went totally brain dead and allowed Chicago to cut it to 10, forcing Romo to play the rest of the game.  They probably could have gotten by with Randle or Dunbar getting carries at that point, but it's clear they are going to ride Murray like Seattle Slew and deal with the repercussions later, or let another team deal with them after they sign him.
 

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Greg29fan said:
Weeden was warming up to come in last night and then the defense/ST went totally brain dead and allowed Chicago to cut it to 10, forcing Romo to play the rest of the game.  They probably could have gotten by with Randle or Dunbar getting carries at that point, but it's clear they are going to ride Murray like Seattle Slew and deal with the repercussions later, or let another team deal with them after they sign him.
An interesting question: should the Cowboys re-sign Murray? He's been great, but turns 27 in February. You have to figure that his next four years probably aren't going to look as good as his first four, and given the O-line they should still be able to run effectively even with a downgrade at RB.
 

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Super Nomario said:
An interesting question: should the Cowboys re-sign Murray? He's been great, but turns 27 in February. You have to figure that his next four years probably aren't going to look as good as his first four, and given the O-line they should still be able to run effectively even with a downgrade at RB.
 
Absolutely not. Unless they slap the franchise tag on him, there's no way he's back. With the season he's having, someone is going to offer him a ton of money. Running backs, for the most part, are a fairly fungible bunch (particularly with that offensive line, as you mentioned), so there would be no reason to get into a long-term contract with a soon-to-be 27 year-old running back with a spotty injury history and coming off of an amount of touches he's never seen before. Quality running backs can be had in the middle rounds, so there's no reason to take on such a large risk.
 
Then again, their window is closing fast, so you can never discount the possibility of Jerry going all-in with him and Dez (whom they should pay whatever the hell he wants).
 

LondonSox

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They'd be foolish to resign him, they are short on space and have a team with some issues. The strength is the line, so plug in another RB. Will they get this level of performance, unlikely. But not impossible, and they will likely get close if the oline plays well and stays healthy.
 
I think they need to keep Bryant far more.
 
But this is Jerry's world so who knows
 

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Bosoxen said:
 
Absolutely not. Unless they slap the franchise tag on him, there's no way he's back. With the season he's having, someone is going to offer him a ton of money. Running backs, for the most part, are a fairly fungible bunch (particularly with that offensive line, as you mentioned), so there would be no reason to get into a long-term contract with a soon-to-be 27 year-old running back with a spotty injury history and coming off of an amount of touches he's never seen before. Quality running backs can be had in the middle rounds, so there's no reason to take on such a large risk.
 
Then again, their window is closing fast, so you can never discount the possibility of Jerry going all-in with him and Dez (whom they should pay whatever the hell he wants).
 
My Cowboys fan friend is convinced they're running Murray so much because they know they're not going to resign him.  Of course, that doesn't explain what will happen if they mis-time his downfall to coincide with the conference championships instead of Week 2 of the 2015-16 season.
 

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Marciano490 said:
 
My Cowboys fan friend is convinced they're running Murray so much because they know they're not going to resign him.  Of course, that doesn't explain what will happen if they mis-time his downfall to coincide with the conference championships instead of Week 2 of the 2015-16 season.
 
I've heard that a couple times today on the local sports radio station, and it still doesn't make any sense to me. It's probably true that they know they won't be re-signing him, but Murray has a whole slew of personal reasons to want to shoulder the load. He's in his walk year, and heading into free agency after getting to/near 2,000 yards and proving that he can single-handedly carry the load would go a really long way towards setting him up for life, financially.
 
They could also be riding the hot hand. Murray was en fuego last night.
 

Bosoxen

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It's pretty simple. They know Romo is hurt so they have to focus on the run more. In that sense, Romo's injury is almost a blessing since it is forcing them to be more balanced when they've long had a tendency to abandon the running game. The problem is that teams that don't suck (I.e. not the Bears) will be ready for this. These next 2 weeks will be very interesting. I think they'll win at least 1 of them.
That doesn't explain why Murray got 99% of the touches last night. Not that I disagree with you as to why they depended on the running back so much. That much was obvious looking at how hopeless the Chicago defense was to stop that. Which is actually kind of funny, since they probably see that on a daily basis.
 

Greg29fan

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Well it's all there in front of the Cowboys for the taking.  Beat Philly and you lead the division with a winnable home game against Indy (who cannot stop the run) and a road game against the extremely bad (and yes I know what happened in Dallas, but I would hope they learned from that) Redskins left.  Seattle did them a big solid today.  
 

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Greg29fan said:
Well it's all there in front of the Cowboys for the taking.  Beat Philly and you lead the division with a winnable home game against Indy (who cannot stop the run) and a road game against the extremely bad (and yes I know what happened in Dallas, but I would hope they learned from that) Redskins left.  Seattle did them a big solid today.  
The way I look at it they win the next three and win the division or lose even 1 game and they probably miss out on the playoffs.
 

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If Dallas loses to Philly then wins out, and Detroit goes 2-1 with the loss being at GB, and Dal & Det are tied for the #6 seed, who's in?
 

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Oil Can Dan said:
If Dallas loses to Philly then wins out, and Detroit goes 2-1 with the loss being at GB, and Dal & Det are tied for the #6 seed, who's in?
 
Detroit.  Dallas is not in good shape in conference record tiebreakers.
 

Bosoxen

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Well, the schedule makers got their wish. It's not Week 17, but this as close to a is a win or go home scenario for both teams as one can get in Week 15. The Cowboys won't finish 8-8, but the end result could possibly still be the same as the last 529 years in a row this has happened. If they do end up a 10 or 11-win team that doesn't make the playoffs, you can bet your ass Jerry will make a ton of noise about expanding the playoffs.
 
I couldn't really bring myself to openly root for it, but I was kind of hoping Philly would win. That at least would have given the Cowboys some wiggle room with the wild card. Now, it's division or bust. Saying it will be a playoff atmosphere on Sunday is an understatement. I'd be excited, if it weren't for the inevitable sense of doom.
 

Oil Can Dan

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I think it's a must win for Dallas more-so than Philly. If Dallas wins Sunday then loses to Indy while the Eagles beat the Giants and the Skins then Philly wins the division. I could see that scenario playing out.

Regardless it'll be a great game on Sunday. I wonder if the effect of Dallas having had ten days between games rather than four is enough to overcome whatever differences there were on Thanksgiving. I didn't think Dallas had a bad gameplan that day, but Romo was clearly not his usual self.
 

Bosoxen

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Oil Can Dan said:
I think it's a must win for Dallas more-so than Philly. If Dallas wins Sunday then loses to Indy while the Eagles beat the Giants and the Skins then Philly wins the division. I could see that scenario playing out.

Regardless it'll be a great game on Sunday. I wonder if the effect of Dallas having had ten days between games rather than four is enough to overcome whatever differences there were on Thanksgiving. I didn't think Dallas had a bad gameplan that day, but Romo was clearly not his usual self.
 
That's why I added the qualifier that it's as close to a win or go home game as one can get. Regardless of the outcome, the team that loses no longer controls its own destiny. Sure, the odds of Philadelphia still winning the division despite a loss a greater than for Dallas, but they would still need help.
 
A lot has been made about the effect of the short week on Romo, but no one seems to mention how much it affected the defense. Everyone knows Philly's offense is up tempo, but the Giants are right behind them in plays per game (70.9 vs 68). Dallas' defense was on the field for 35 minutes and around 74 plays the game before the shortest time between games in NFL history. I'm not saying they're capable of stopping Philly's offense - far from it - but it's not hard to see why they were completely unable to do anything to slow them down.
 
They'll still score points, no doubt about it, but I expect to see a big improvement from the defense. For what little that's worth with that unit.
 

Greg29fan

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Different Cowboys team.  Pissed away a 21-0 lead on the road in game for the NFC East lead - in December! - and they pull it off.  Previous Cowboys teams pack it in and lose 42-21.
 

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Greg29fan said:
Different Cowboys team.  Pissed away a 21-0 lead on the road in game for the NFC East lead - in December! - and they pull it off.  Previous Cowboys teams pack it in and lose 42-21.
 
And then proceed to lose one or both of their remaining games. It's a brave new world we're living in where the Cowboys fight back and manage to win games when all hope looks lost.
 
Jason Garrett was beaming in his postgame press conference last night. Looked like a proud papa.
 

Greg29fan

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Well these last two games are certainly scary and they can't relax or rest on what they've done up to this point one bit.
 
I hope Indy might relax a little bit since they've wrapped up their division and with losses to both NE and Denver, they would have an extremely difficult time moving ahead of them to get a bye, but Dallas hasn't beaten a team of their quality at home all season.  And then Washington will be playing their Super Bowl against them in week 17.
 

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Yeah, but remember, it's not a given that the Eagles will beat the Redskins or Giants.
 

Bosoxen

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Flunky said:
Yeah, but remember, it's not a given that the Eagles will beat the Redskins or Giants.
 
Yes, it is. New York's defense is shit and Washington's offense is equally bad. The Cowboys cannot depend on either of those teams to beat Philly. They'll have to take care of their own business if they want in on the party.
 

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Is Scandrick's hand ok?
 
Seriously, though, I think you may be right. I doubt he'll start, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if he dresses and gets a few touches.
 

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I'm a lot more concerned about Martin and Free's ankle injuries than DeMarco, although him missing a week in a key game is not ideal.  Dunbar and Randle have both shown flashes when given a chance and the line is the key to their success.
 

Bosoxen

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Martin played the whole second half after the injury, so I'm not as concerned about his ankle as I am about Free's. They had that thing pretty heavily taped when he came out of the game. Though, I'm guessing the fact that they allowed him to stay on his feet is a sign that it's not something that would cause him to miss multiple games.
 

Bosoxen

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He had the surgery yesterday. Because this occurred on his left hand and he carries the ball in his right hand, I suspect there won't be much hesitation to let him play. Where this will affect him is in catching passes and picking up blitzes. So we'll see.
 

DJnVa

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Don't you carry the ball in the hand/arm away from the defense. Running to the left, the ball is tucked into your left arm, and vice versa. At least, that's how Cris Carter was talking this morning.
 
Murray runs more the left than any other RB, which means the ball will be tucked away in this left arm, so that's not good. And even if tucked in his right, he loses the ability to stiff-arm with this left, so none of this:
 

 
 
 
Heard a doctor this morning that says he seriously doubts he plays this week at all, and possibly even next week.
 

SawxSince67

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Right, years of conditioning to switch the ball to the sideline hand.

This is a conundrum.

Can't lose either of the their last two games, but it's all moot if they lose him for the playoffs should he re-injure the hand...

I am ALMOST hoping they sit him and go with the two headed monster of Dunbar and Randle (Cologne and Underwear)....it is good timing re: that softish Indy run D.
 

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DrewDawg said:
Don't you carry the ball in the hand/arm away from the defense. Running to the left, the ball is tucked into your left arm, and vice versa. At least, that's how Cris Carter was talking this morning.
 
Murray runs more the left than any other RB, which means the ball will be tucked away in this left arm, so that's not good. And even if tucked in his right, he loses the ability to stiff-arm with this left, so none of this:
 
(snipped picture)
 
Heard a doctor this morning that says he seriously doubts he plays this week at all, and possibly even next week.
 
You're right, the stiff arm would suffer from the broken hand. But regarding carrying the ball on the sideline side, I've heard several references, including by Cowboys beat writers, that carrying the ball in his left hand caused a lot of his fumbling issues early in the season and that switching to exclusively carrying it in his right hand is what helped to correct that. I can't say whether that's correct without going back and looking at tape, so it's my fault for operating under the assumption that it is.
 
Sawx is right that they should be taking the long view here and give the ball to Dunbar and Randle. But we have to remember who runs this team, so it's more likely that Murray will play.
 

LondonSox

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The risks of a fumble have to be higher because you know which hand he's covering it in. The way the Cowboys have rolled this season I would bet he plays, it's a big game.
 

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Phragle

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They should just sit him. Am I the only one that's noticed how much he has slowed down from early this season? I'd give him rest so he's refreshed for the playoffs.
 

Greg29fan

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Phragle said:
They should just sit him. Am I the only one that's noticed how much he has slowed down from early this season? I'd give him rest so he's refreshed for the playoffs.
 
Top-end speed has never been DeMarco's calling card.
 

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Greg29fan said:
 
Top-end speed has never been DeMarco's calling card.
 
It's not just top end IMO. He looked like he's running with ankle weights Sunday and that was on 10 days rest. I think having DM healthy and fresh is more important than having a bye week and home field. Especially considering there may not be a big downgrade from tired, injured DM to Randle.
 

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Other than Jack Youngblood playing in the SB on a fractured leg, I don't know that I've seen a more heroic performance than Emmitt Smith's playoff game against the Giants with an incredibly messed up shoulder.  But this is worse, it seems to me, than that shoulder, which was mainly an issue of pain management.
 
This hand can get worse, probably much worse.  And it can adversely impact the Cowboys during the game.  So even if Jerry does not give a rat's ass about Murray's future, I think the smart play is to sit him.
 

Bosoxen

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dcmissle said:
Other than Jack Youngblood playing in the SB on a fractured leg, I don't know that I've seen a more heroic performance than Emmitt Smith's playoff game against the Giants with an incredibly messed up shoulder.  But this is worse, it seems to me, than that shoulder, which was mainly an issue of pain management.
 
This hand can get worse, probably much worse.  And it can adversely impact the Cowboys during the game.  So even if Jerry does not give a rat's ass about Murray's future, I think the smart play is to sit him.
 
A) It wasn't a playoff game. It was the final week of the regular season and it allowed the Cowboys to clinch the division (and Emmitt claimed the rushing title in the process).
B) It wasn't a "messed up shoulder". It was a separated shoulder. Stories from that day say that he couldn't even lift his arm up over his head. Aikman even had to lower the handoff point because Emmitt couldn't receive the ball at the normal point. Talk about not being able to stiff arm. Imagine holding off a 260-lb linebacker with the arm that was dislocated at the shoulder.
C) Playing with a separated shoulder can be much, much worse than with a broken bone in the hand. Despite that, Emmitt went on to help the Cowboys win the Super Bowl.
 
You can read more about it here.
 

Greg29fan

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Bosoxen said:
 
A) It wasn't a playoff game. It was the final week of the regular season and it allowed the Cowboys to clinch the division (and Emmitt claimed the rushing title in the process).
B) It wasn't a "messed up shoulder". It was a separated shoulder. Stories from that day say that he couldn't even lift his arm up over his head. Aikman even had to lower the handoff point because Emmitt couldn't receive the ball at the normal point. Talk about not being able to stiff arm. Imagine holding off a 260-lb linebacker with the arm that was dislocated at the shoulder.
C) Playing with a separated shoulder can be much, much worse than with a broken bone in the hand. Despite that, Emmitt went on to help the Cowboys win the Super Bowl.
 
You can read more about it here.
 
As you know, that was at the Meadowlands which had that hard, hard artificial turf like Philadelphia so every time he got tackled on that shoulder it had to be excruciating.  
 
Phragle-
 
I've just never seen or thought of DeMarco as a "fast" running back, whether he has a week off or is playing on four days rest.  I thought he looked fine Sunday, the line was a little beat up through the game and Philadelphia has done a good job holding him in check this year both games.  The week before that against Chicago he was absolutely beastly.
 

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Greg29fan said:
 
As you know, that was at the Meadowlands which had that hard, hard artificial turf like Philadelphia so every time he got tackled on that shoulder it had to be excruciating.  
 
Not just on that shoulder. Any kind of impact had to have reverberated all through that shoulder and arm. Even landing on the opposite shoulder would create a shock on the injured shoulder. I cannot fathom the pain tolerance necessary to be able to work my desk job with a recently separated shoulder, let alone play fucking football.
 
 
Phragle-
 
I've just never seen or thought of DeMarco as a "fast" running back, whether he has a week off or is playing on four days rest.  I thought he looked fine Sunday, the line was a little beat up through the game and Philadelphia has done a good job holding him in check this year both games.  The week before that against Chicago he was absolutely beastly.
 
DeMarco isn't generally considered a fast running back, but he did run a 4.41 at the combine (by comparison, LeSean McCoy, who is seen as a fast running back, ran a 4.42). He's not a quick-burst back, by any means, but when he gets into open space, he can turn on the jets and run pretty damn well for a guy his size.
 
For giggles, I looked up his draft profile. Some of that stuff sounds right on the money. Some, not so much.
 
http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/demarco-murray?id=2495207
 

SawxSince67

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The part about the Meadowlands having a rockhard field is not hyperbole. Back in the mid 90s I played a few touch tackle tournaments on the main field (not the practice field). I'd been on high school artificial turf fields but assumed the pros used a different technology. I was wrong. I was bewildered that the league would let players on a surface such as this. That plastic tears your epidermis off in sheets as well.

Sorry, we were talking about Emmitt. I vividly remember a few runs from that game. His legend grew 10 fold. Madden even went into the locker room to see him, a rare occurance for Madden.
 

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I remember watching Emmitt play in high school in Pensacola.  He was a beast then.  I had the chance to meet him at a Pro Am on the Cape when he was with Dallas.  Not a tall guy at all, but I remember patting him on the shoulder and it was like solid rock.  I can't imagine what it must have felt having him run into you.
 
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