Fortunate or not, I'd take it as a Pats fan so no reason to harp on it because it happened to the Cowboys. Congrats on advancing, hopefully a more decisive Romo shows up in GB and we get an entertaining game.
2014 Cowboys: Deja vu all over again
- Thread starter Bosoxen
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MentalDisabldLst
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I think Romo actually played a pretty good game. He turtled a little unnecessarily a few times, but made a bunch of excellent throws and put his receivers in a position for good YAC (except for Beasley getting brained over the middle - though even there, he kinda got 15 YAC in a manner of speaking). Today, his OL did a mediocre job of containing what is certainly a fearsome line, and despite it, Romo (and the D) bailed his team out. I hope, for Luis's sake, that Romo's reputation goes up a little bit nationally after this one.
If he can pull off the upset in Green Bay, of course, that will make even more of a difference to how he is viewed.
If he can pull off the upset in Green Bay, of course, that will make even more of a difference to how he is viewed.
The good news is GB's defense isn't nearly as stout as Detroit's and the weather in Dallas is supposed to be cold-ish all week (30s-40s, especially mid week) so hopefully they can get used to playing in less than ideal conditions. The line could really use Doug Free back I think and hopefully he'll be able to play with an extra week. If the defense can hold Green Bay in the 20s like they did Detroit they'll have a shot.
The Packers matchup is going to be very interesting, as already mentioned they don't have the defense to stop Dallas, but at home if Rodgers is healthy I'm not sure how Dallas stops them.
But stopping the run is the key to beating Dallas and the Packers aren't special at that.
I'm going to assume BoSoxen isn't annoyed at the refs any more? I missed the last part of the game sadly, have to watch it later, and the holds etc look bad but that stuff happens all the time so while it's disappointing to see it's not a shock. I was far more surprised at the picking up the flag, with no explanation, which seems crazy and also Witten false started on the the short pass conversion he did. BoSoxen mentioned the Lions had a similar false start in the 1st on the second TD drive, which I didn't notice. But if true would at least fit with two sided incompetence.
I don't know how livid I'd be if I was a Detroit fan though. Very to extremely, I'd imagine.
The picked up flag thing, with multiple ex refs on twitter and networks etc saying it's a clear mistake is going to be interesting. But I do agree, that penalty doesn't force you to punt. Crap coaching makes you punt.
But stopping the run is the key to beating Dallas and the Packers aren't special at that.
I'm going to assume BoSoxen isn't annoyed at the refs any more? I missed the last part of the game sadly, have to watch it later, and the holds etc look bad but that stuff happens all the time so while it's disappointing to see it's not a shock. I was far more surprised at the picking up the flag, with no explanation, which seems crazy and also Witten false started on the the short pass conversion he did. BoSoxen mentioned the Lions had a similar false start in the 1st on the second TD drive, which I didn't notice. But if true would at least fit with two sided incompetence.
I don't know how livid I'd be if I was a Detroit fan though. Very to extremely, I'd imagine.
The picked up flag thing, with multiple ex refs on twitter and networks etc saying it's a clear mistake is going to be interesting. But I do agree, that penalty doesn't force you to punt. Crap coaching makes you punt.
I was annoyed with the refs the whole game. That was just the icing on the cake. Though it did produce some hilarious radio this morning, as Detroit's sports talk station blamed it on the fans.
On the play you mentioned, Detroit's right guard started rocking backward before the snap. I wasn't the only one that saw it either. My brother and I were both jumping up and down when it wasn't called. And a play or two later, on the Bush touchdown, the wide receiver - I think it was Tate - had a giant fist full of Patmon's jersey. Those were the two plays I noted to the FC crew.
I was also annoyed that the running into the kicker was enforced as a six-yard penalty. I'm still not sure what the hell that was all about, but I was at a bar and didn't hear any explanation.
On the play you mentioned, Detroit's right guard started rocking backward before the snap. I wasn't the only one that saw it either. My brother and I were both jumping up and down when it wasn't called. And a play or two later, on the Bush touchdown, the wide receiver - I think it was Tate - had a giant fist full of Patmon's jersey. Those were the two plays I noted to the FC crew.
I was also annoyed that the running into the kicker was enforced as a six-yard penalty. I'm still not sure what the hell that was all about, but I was at a bar and didn't hear any explanation.
It wasn't a 6 yard penalty it was a 5, the commentary said it immediately before the penalty announcement, "whichever kind of penalty that is, it's a first down". I think the graphic may have been off, if that helps at all.
This is exactly why the VP of officiating cannot go out with the Cowboys to party in the offseason though. The Cowboys mean rating, the PAckers Cowboys means extreme rating. Combine this with a bunch of dodgy late calls...
I didn't see the false start you're referring too, the punting penalty was correct (though I'll grant the later one where the lions hit the cowboys punter could have been called too) but the string of bad or at least generous calls in the 4th was really really bad.
Anyway whatever, done is done. Going to be a fun game next weekend.
This is exactly why the VP of officiating cannot go out with the Cowboys to party in the offseason though. The Cowboys mean rating, the PAckers Cowboys means extreme rating. Combine this with a bunch of dodgy late calls...
I didn't see the false start you're referring too, the punting penalty was correct (though I'll grant the later one where the lions hit the cowboys punter could have been called too) but the string of bad or at least generous calls in the 4th was really really bad.
Anyway whatever, done is done. Going to be a fun game next weekend.
Weird. The play-by-play game recap also has it as a six-yard penalty. My memory is a tad hazy (lots of alcohol was required to make it through that game), but I was thinking it was 4th and 6, which wouldn't have made it an automatic first down. I wasn't so much angry at the call itself, though the punter did do a hell of a job of selling it, but that it shouldn't have given them a first down. Looks like it was 4th and 5, so it should have been a first down.
Anyway, yes, onto next week. Oddly enough, I feel better about that game than I did about Detroit. They'll need to stick to the script and run the ball a ton, though, because Dom Capers likes to blitz a lot and it's pretty clear that's a big weakness for the offensive line.
Anyway, yes, onto next week. Oddly enough, I feel better about that game than I did about Detroit. They'll need to stick to the script and run the ball a ton, though, because Dom Capers likes to blitz a lot and it's pretty clear that's a big weakness for the offensive line.
I agree dude. The Lions D was a good match up (for them). The Packers are going to be Dallas 2014 vanilla. Ball possession time of possession. Score and limit rodgers time on the field.
I was a bit concerned about the play calling at one point, eg after the turnover to start the second looked good run, run then 3rd and 1 empty backfield???? WHY?
And if the Lions had pulled any further away would they have stuck to a balanced plan? But they didn't and it worked out.
If the Packers do one of their super fast Lambeau sprints out of the gates will they stick to their game plan. I think they have to. But that may be hard down 21 and thinking you cannot give the ball back to the packers. You saw it a bit in the first half, the Dallas D is undersized and if you keep them on the field there isn't depth behind either, so if you gas them it can get bad. But I don't see the PAckers really being able to stop the run.
I would also expect the blitz to be coming pretty frequently. The Eagles did it in Dallas, Washington did it and the Lions did it. The O line, which can't be a shock with it being young, can be confused on the blitz. Further you know one big hit on Romo could turn the game. The only team that could be passive vs Dallas imo is seattle. They can likely do ok vs the run and coverage in their base. They won't create holes by blitzing regularly.
Much as I dislike the way it went down I am excited to watch this packers game. Seattle lions and packers panthers would have been both 10 point plus lines
I was a bit concerned about the play calling at one point, eg after the turnover to start the second looked good run, run then 3rd and 1 empty backfield???? WHY?
And if the Lions had pulled any further away would they have stuck to a balanced plan? But they didn't and it worked out.
If the Packers do one of their super fast Lambeau sprints out of the gates will they stick to their game plan. I think they have to. But that may be hard down 21 and thinking you cannot give the ball back to the packers. You saw it a bit in the first half, the Dallas D is undersized and if you keep them on the field there isn't depth behind either, so if you gas them it can get bad. But I don't see the PAckers really being able to stop the run.
I would also expect the blitz to be coming pretty frequently. The Eagles did it in Dallas, Washington did it and the Lions did it. The O line, which can't be a shock with it being young, can be confused on the blitz. Further you know one big hit on Romo could turn the game. The only team that could be passive vs Dallas imo is seattle. They can likely do ok vs the run and coverage in their base. They won't create holes by blitzing regularly.
Much as I dislike the way it went down I am excited to watch this packers game. Seattle lions and packers panthers would have been both 10 point plus lines
Green Bay will definitely be blitzing early and often. They were fifth in blitz percentage this year, blitzing on 37% of their defensive plays (Arizona was first with a shocking 49.21%). As long as they stick to the script, the Cowboys should be able to move the ball on them. With Murray looking pretty human lately and Randle being an absolute butcher at blitz pickups, I would expect to see more of Dunbar on Sunday.
Back to the blitzing, it's kind of surprising that Detroit blitzed so much yesterday. They were next-to-last in blitz percentage this season. But with the success that Arizona, Philly and Washington had blitzing, I don't blame them for going with what they knew would work.
Back to the blitzing, it's kind of surprising that Detroit blitzed so much yesterday. They were next-to-last in blitz percentage this season. But with the success that Arizona, Philly and Washington had blitzing, I don't blame them for going with what they knew would work.
High 20°, low 4° and no precipitation in the forecast for two days either side of Sunday. Kind of frozen tundra, or do they have heating coils embedded turf at Lambeau?
http://www.weather.com/weather/tenday/l/USWI0288:1:US
http://www.weather.com/weather/tenday/l/USWI0288:1:US
Al Zarilla said:
They have a heating system to keep it from becoming a frozen tundra.
They originally had heating coils in 1967 even before the Ice Bowl, but that day they failed because the cold got so extreme. So that's where everyone got their image of Lambeau field...totally frozen turf with -10F temps. Apparently they replaced those coils with a system of pipes about 15 years ago and they can control the soil temperature. I remember they had a whole mini documentary on it a couple years ago before the Giants/Packers playoff game.
It won't happen this offseason, but sometime in the next couple years the league will quietly change the rules such that judgment calls are subject to coaches challenges.
Lions fans need to come up with a pithy name for the play for it to truly become immortal though.
Lions fans need to come up with a pithy name for the play for it to truly become immortal though.
MentalDisabldLst said:
I didn't think he was bad, and his stat-line was impressive for a playoff game against a top D. I thought at least two of those sacks were him not making a good decision vs. the blitz and taking a bigger loss than necessary, and if GB does something bettter than mediocre on defense it's getting pressure from different spots with Matthews and Peppers. Dallas vs. the GB D is obviously advantage Dallas, but it's something to consider because there's a good chance a B+ game from Romo isn't cutting it @GB. The guy has played at an mvp level this season and they probably need that Sunday.
MentalDisabldLst said:
Ask and ye shall receive:
http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/01/04/nfl-playoffs-wild-card-tony-romo-comeback-cowboys-lions?sct=obnetwork
It feels nice to be so validated. And that you care.
That's nice to see. The Tony Romo choker thing has always been one of those stupid sports narratives that doesn't hold up. The game last year vs. Denver where he plays completely out of his mind unreal football and is the sole reason they're in that game, then the entire media focus being on that late pick was so freaking annoying even to a non-Cowboys fan.
TheMoralBully said:
They also used to obsess over his bad Decembers but then this year he played like a Hall of Famer that month.
But someone put up a stat on TV (to the media's credit) that even before his other-worldly December 2014, Romo from 2009-2013 had something like 34 TD and 8 picks in the month of December despite the team record being below .500. But that's what you get when you are a QB on a crappy team where you are the one to try and carry them. You own the team record...fair or unfair. It's how typical media rhetoric has been for decades. Those 8-8 teams probably would have been absolutely horrible if you replaced Romo with an average QB.
TheMoralBully said:
One thing I am curious to find out and will have to do research on is did the Romo fumbled snap in the Seattle playoff game lead to a sea change in who does the holding for placekicks. I remember not too long ago it was the backup QB that did a lot of the holding, but now only 3 teams (Dolphins, Saints, Raiders) have their backup QB do the holding. There could be another reason for it, but I'd love to know if the Romo play was a catalyst for change.
Interesting, I hadn't heard that just three teams did that. Belichick's stance is that the punter as holder makes sense because the specialists practice together a lot anyway and then you don't have to pull the backup QB out of offensive activities. I wonder if the restrictions on practice time in the new CBA led to basically every team coming to the same conclusion. The other thing that comes to mind is that doing away with the emergency QB has led to more teams carrying just 2 QBs, and thus sending one to work with the specialists makes less sense now.DanoooME said:
And I always believed that even if he doesn't drop the snap the Seahawks still had over a minute to go and that they would have found away to kick a FG to win the game.
Dan Murfman said:
Yup. Frankly, it was the poor spot on the third down pass to Witten, which would have given them 1st and goal, moreso than the fumbled FG snap, that cost the Cowboys the game. But that doesn't fit the narrative, so no one ever talks about that.
Bosoxen said:
It wasn't a poor spot. They gave the Cowboys the first down initially and then after a booth challenge with no definitive angle showing they got the call wrong, they moved the ball backwards, meaning it was fourth down and Dallas had to kick instead of being able to run the ball in for a TD from the one or taking a knee and setting up the last play of the game.
That's why I have no time for pro Dallas conspiracy theories or feeling bad about yesterday. It's happened to us too.
Seattle had no time outs left, so I'd probably bet against them coming back in the Romo fumbled hold game if the FG had been good, though there was definitely a chance they could have come back and won. Seattle's offense wasn't exactly tearing it up that game though. Neither offense was actually.
Charles P. Pierce with his version of what went on in Jerry World yesterday:
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/dallas-cowboys-nfl-detroit-lions-wild-card-playoffs/
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/dallas-cowboys-nfl-detroit-lions-wild-card-playoffs/
It didn't end like I wanted it to and I never, ever do moral victories, but this year was still a lot of fun and hopefully they can build on it.
They were picked to finish last in the NFC East and have the worst defense in history and instead balled their guts out every week.
They were picked to finish last in the NFC East and have the worst defense in history and instead balled their guts out every week.
Who picked them last? The Giants and Washington were looking like car wrecks, it was generally considered Eagles mild favorites to Cowboys.Greg29fan said:
The defense being the issue, and plenty of 8-8 calls of course.
The cap raise is going to help the Cowboys a lot, because Murray and Bryant aren't going to be cheap. Romo has played great but you would expect they need a better back up given his injury issues.
That doesn't leave a lot to upgrade the d, and talk is Marinelli is leaving.
I'd keep Bryant over Murray as the line is the running key. Would you keep Murray? Cowboys fans? I mean huge huge work load and unlikely to be cheap.
I'd seriously consider letting him go. Look for a rb a long term qb and Def help in draft. Qb unlikely of course but could see a project type later.
LondonSox said:
The New York Post and the paper in New Orleans for two just searching briefly through Google. I think SI picked them to tie for last with Washington.
And yes I would let DeMarco walk as much as I like him and respect what he did for the club this year. They're also likely to be looking for a D Coordinator as Marinelli is probably going to Tampa, which will be a tough loss, I think Bill Callahan may go as well.
I would also let Murray walk. The team has too many holes to fill defensively to spend a ton of money on a running back. I don't want them to go into the 2015 season with Randle as the top dog, so hopefully they can snag one in the draft, but they just can't spend significant assets on a soon-to-be-over-the-hill Murray. I'll change my tune if he's willing to take a 2-3 year incentive-heavy deal, but I doubt it.
Dez, on the other hand, needs to get paid whatever the hell he wants.
Dez, on the other hand, needs to get paid whatever the hell he wants.
Dez Bryant is heavily involved now in child cancer patients (a dear friend is one of the kids he's essentially adopted). He has been wearing in pregames a shirt made specifically for the child, visits multiple times a week, has paid for hotels and so forth. I'll be pissed if Dallas lets him walk for pure selfish reasons. My friends need him.
Sucks. This is what it would have felt like in 2013 if the Sox had just been edged by the Tigers. Not all of them are fairy tale endings. I appreciate they won about 8 more games than they were supposed to but upon reflection watching the defense this year was not enjoyable.
Also - Bosoxen, Greg29fan - I have really appreciated this thread this season. Since I started reading on SoSH in 2009 I haven't really had much need to look in the football sub forum. This season I learned it's an island of sanity for a Cowboys fan. Even within the confines of this website let alone the wide internet. You guys are knowledgeable and rational and I am glad I have a place to learn about the team in that way. Cheers!
anyway, Meshawn said this after week 1:
https://twitter.com/ESPNNFL/status/511168717418672129
Also - Bosoxen, Greg29fan - I have really appreciated this thread this season. Since I started reading on SoSH in 2009 I haven't really had much need to look in the football sub forum. This season I learned it's an island of sanity for a Cowboys fan. Even within the confines of this website let alone the wide internet. You guys are knowledgeable and rational and I am glad I have a place to learn about the team in that way. Cheers!
anyway, Meshawn said this after week 1:
https://twitter.com/ESPNNFL/status/511168717418672129
Flunky said:
Thanks, yo. I am glad that we have a safe haven in our little corner of the internet to discuss the Cowboys intelligently. Feel free to join us any time. The more, the merrier. Living in Dallas, I'm constantly knee deep in stupidity and knee-jerk reactions, so I make it a point to keep a level head. Doesn't mean I always manage it, especially on game days, but I know I'm not alone in wanting to be able to talk about Tony Romo without every conversation devolving into how much of a choker he is - johnmd jokingly trolling me, notwithstanding.
*Spoiler Alert* In the spirit of that, I will begin writing the postmortem for Football Central sometime this week.I haven't rushed through the grieving process as quickly as Greg has, so I'm still not to the point where I can talk about sunshine and rainbows. Though, I guess I can take solace in the fact that Jerry's dance with the devil is officially over, and Chris Christie can finally go back to chewing on Satan's toe nails.
I went in yesterday with the attitude that no matter what happened it was still a great season with a lot of great moments (who would have ever thought the Dallas Cowboys could go into Seattle and win??) but don't get me wrong I'm still mad and frustrated and plenty bitter about what happened.
One person tweeted, "RO88ED". I'm still enjoying the variations of RE2PECT jokes.
I've said this elsewhere and I'll say it here. Back when he played, Aikman was asked about 2 bad calls on 1 play that cost Dallas a game at Washington. I'm paraphrasing his response but it was something along the lines of, "Bad calls happen, especially on the road. It's within the team's control to win convincingly enough so that 1-2 bad calls don't cost your team the game. We didn't do that." I do what I can to keep that in mind whenever something like this happens. Also, the PI penalty on the way to Dallas' 1st touchdown was obviously uncatchable by Terrance Williams.
I can't complain about this season regardless of the ending. If you told me before the season started that with Sean Lee out for the season they'd go 12-4, not lose a game in December and would win a playoff game I'd say you were being beyond optimistic.
I've said this elsewhere and I'll say it here. Back when he played, Aikman was asked about 2 bad calls on 1 play that cost Dallas a game at Washington. I'm paraphrasing his response but it was something along the lines of, "Bad calls happen, especially on the road. It's within the team's control to win convincingly enough so that 1-2 bad calls don't cost your team the game. We didn't do that." I do what I can to keep that in mind whenever something like this happens. Also, the PI penalty on the way to Dallas' 1st touchdown was obviously uncatchable by Terrance Williams.
I can't complain about this season regardless of the ending. If you told me before the season started that with Sean Lee out for the season they'd go 12-4, not lose a game in December and would win a playoff game I'd say you were being beyond optimistic.
Greg29fan said:
I probably worded what I said wrong, and I apologize for that. I didn't mean that as a slight to you, in any way. Nor was I saying that you're talking sunshine and rainbows. I was merely saying that I can't yet bring myself to say that it was a great season and no regrets because they were playing with house money. The sunshine and rainbows bit was regarding the year-in-review because, well, it was a great season and there was a lot to like about it.
Listening to The Ticket on my way to lunch today didn't do much to help my mood, but we're getting close to the magical 24-hour mark, so I hope to let it go in time for tonight's game. No matter what happened yesterday, the first real national championship is tonight and, as a big fan of college football, I feel like I should get excited for that game.
No problem, I just wanted to clarify my position.
The play from that game that will haunt me isn't the Dez play, it's James Hanna missing that fumble recovery somehow. My stomach dropped when that happened. Like you said, the Dez play was the cherry on the poop sundae that started when they botched the end of the half (plus a friendly call on the Randall Cobb non catch).
The play from that game that will haunt me isn't the Dez play, it's James Hanna missing that fumble recovery somehow. My stomach dropped when that happened. Like you said, the Dez play was the cherry on the poop sundae that started when they botched the end of the half (plus a friendly call on the Randall Cobb non catch).
As someone who thought the Cowboys were going to be awful, truly repellent on defense...I WAS WRONG.
I think Tony Romo is creeping up on a top-five ranking in the Dan Marino Pro Bowl Challenge; greatest run of game performances from a non-SB winning quarterback. That guy is ... wow. Tough seems inadequate.
Team MVP has to be the defensive coordinator, right? There ain't a ton of talent but it sure did work well together.
I think Tony Romo is creeping up on a top-five ranking in the Dan Marino Pro Bowl Challenge; greatest run of game performances from a non-SB winning quarterback. That guy is ... wow. Tough seems inadequate.
Team MVP has to be the defensive coordinator, right? There ain't a ton of talent but it sure did work well together.
BigSoxFan said:
I don't think that play lost them the game, so much as it was a microcosm of the entire day. Basically nothing went their way, and when something did look to go their way, the rug was immediately pulled from under them:
First and 10 at the end of the first half -> 4th and 6 and a missed field goal (Green Bay gets three, aided by the inexplicable replay where Cobb clearly did not have control of the ball)
Murray has a wide open field for what looks to be a touchdown -> fumble recovered by Green Bay
Those two plays added up to a 16-point swing and possibly 20, if the Cowboys go on to score at the end of the 2nd quarter.
And then you had the unrecovered fumbled by Cobb, however the fuck many 3rd and 10+ conversions the Packers had and the Dez play.
Between the postseason and regular season, Demarco Murray accumulated 436 snaps. I know this number is dwarfed by Jamal Anderson and Terrell Davis in '98 (480 and 470, respectively) and John Riggins in '83 (461). Does anyone know if there are other RBs with more combined carries between the postseason and regular season?
Both Anderson and Davis were shot the next season but Riggins was able to turn in another solid campaign with 327 regular season carries, but retired after the '85 season (at 36 years old!).
I think the smart play here is to let Murray walk and be happy with the production provided from his rookie deal. Considering his previous health questions, I'd be surprised if he plays in 9 games next season.
Both Anderson and Davis were shot the next season but Riggins was able to turn in another solid campaign with 327 regular season carries, but retired after the '85 season (at 36 years old!).
I think the smart play here is to let Murray walk and be happy with the production provided from his rookie deal. Considering his previous health questions, I'd be surprised if he plays in 9 games next season.
Francesca has said a few times he thinks Suh to the Cowboys is a possibility. Is that a possibility and would it be a good idea?
Somebody can correct if I'm wrong but I think the Cowboys will have quite a bit of cap room (for them anyways), and I think they can get more by cutting Brandon Carr (please), Henry Melton, and even Mo Claiborne. Plus I assume they can always tweak Romo's contract like they have before.
M
MentalDisabldLst
Guest
soxfan121 said:
Yeah, I found myself enjoying watching the Cowboys, and Tony Romo makes it a lot easier to watch 'em. Dez is an incredible talent, but Romo has got, like, 80% of Roethlisberger's resilience to being tackled, 70% of Rodgers' scramble ability, 80% of Peyton's pinpoint midrange throws, yadda yadda... I feel like talent-wise, he's not the best in the league at any one describable skill, but he's among the league leaders in most of them.
And he's 34 years old, 35 in April. Cowboys ought to consider the next 3-4 years to be their Romo window.
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