2014-5 Cavs: Greatest offense ever?

[Mugthis]

Question 1: What are the greatest offensive teams in the "modern" era (let's say since the 3pt line)? '86 Celtics, '87 Lakers, '05 Suns, a recent Spurs or Heat team, or some other team?
Question 2: What shared characteristics do these teams have? What was unique about each?
Question 3: How likely is it that the Cavs join this conversation by the end of the season? Why?
 
Zach Lowe has suggested several times that the upcoming Cavs roster has the potential to be the greatest offense ever (he mentioned this on Simmons new show and podcast as well). Here's why it's plausible:
 
1. LeBron is probably the single best offensive player ever. If not the best, then certainly top 5 all-time.
 
2. Kevin Love, for all of his defensive warts, is a top 5 offensive player in the game today. More importantly, he's a unique offensive talent for his size and position. Despite never having any real talent around him and never playing in a good system, he has the 23rd best ever offensive rating. Offensively, his most similar player may be Dirk. 
 
3. Kyrie Irving is a special offensive talent, despite his lack of efficiency so far in his career. The reasonable hope is that the combination of another year of development, in a more much functional and talented offensive system, with 2 other elite players, will allow him to reach new heights in efficiency.
 
4. David Blatt appears to have a "borderline genius," Spurs-like offensive system, emphasizing constant ball movement, spacing, screens, etc., which seems ideal for a LeBron led team.
 
5. Unlike the LeBron-era Heat, which were elite offensive teams, the Cavs' pieces appear to be a perfect fit. LeBron and Wade were always an awkward offensive pairing, given their redundant skills, Wade's rapid aging, and Wade's lack of 3 point range. Bosh's offensive game didn't work that well until he started expanding his range. Unlike  Wade, Kyrie has the potential to be an elite long range shooter, including off-the-ball, while still having the on-the-ball dynamism to get to the rim and create offensive himself. More speculative, there's less likely to be an alpha class with Kyrie and LeBron, like there was with Wade and LeBron. Then there's Love, who is like '13-'14 Bosh, only better in every way. Better 3pt shooting, better passing, better post game, and much better rebounder, who has the size and skill to allow the Cavs to "go small" without sacrificing nearly as much as the glass. How can you possibly defend a Love-LeBron-Miller-Waiters-Irving offense? Or Love-LeBron-Miller-Jones-Irving?
 
The combination of shooting, athleticism, passing, and rebounding at multiple positions in an apparent sophisticated offensive scheme, with a multitude of specialized 2nd and 3rd-tier players, could be the greatest offensive ever. It's easy to imagine Love grabbing defensive rebounds and firing perfect full court passes to LeBron and Irving. Or LeBron surrounded by 3-4 great three-point shooters and free flowing ball movement. Or an unbeatable LeBron-Love pick-n-roll game. 
 
The biggest questions concern how quickly the team will gel. Will it take a 1-2 years, like the Heat team? Or will the Cavs immediately reach their potential, like the '07-'08 Celtics? 
 
I think the Celtics are a better comparison. They gelled immediately, mostly due a perfect fit of players working in a sound and innovative defensive scheme.
 
Whatcha all think?

 

[Mugthis]

Another related question:
 
Just considering offensive, could LeBron have a better pairing of 2 stars than Love and Irving? Based on age, position, and set of skills, it's hard to see a better offensive trio.
 
Love seems the like perfect companion, given his range, passing, rebounding, size, and the fact that he doesn't need the ball in his hand that much. The biggest question is Irving, who's much more unproven. But what other guard would you prefer over him to fit with LeBron and Love? Chris Paul is certainly a much better PG, but perhaps not the best fit, given his dominance with the ball. And he's good, but not elite 3-point shooter. Harden is probably too ball-dominant to be the perfect fit. Maybe Lillard or Lowry?
 
I think the obvious answer is Stephen Curry. I think he's clearly the best long distance shooter ever, and he's become a good passer. Defenses would have to choose between sticking with him as he runs off screens, which would leave the middle of the court open for LeBron to drive and score, or find an open Love. If defenses emphasize stopping LeBron and Love, then Curry would have an untold number of open threes. But unlike a Kyle Korver-type, Curry has the skill set to take over with the ball and create offense himself as needed. Curry's not perfect, however; he is not great at the rim or on fast breaks.
 
Despite Curry looking like the 3rd option for a LeBron-Love combo, I suspect he wouldn't be that much better than Irving. In the Cavs' specific situation, will there be that much of a difference between Curry and Irving? Curry is a better shooter and passer, certainly, but how much of that gap was situational? And how much does Irving's superior ability of getting and finishing at the hoop make up for differences in shooting?
 
In other words, if you were to swap Irving for Curry on the existing Cavs roster, how big of a marginal improvement would there be? I suspect the difference would be rather small, but I'm curious to hear your thoughts. I haven't watched a lot of Irving, so I'm less aware of his offensive deficiencies. And Irving's career playing environment is so bad (coaching, surrounding talent, losing culture, etc.), that it's hard to know how much his deficiencies are due to himself, or due to his environment. Irving's only quality offensive teammate has been Waiters, who isn't that special, and is another ballhog guard. Curry has played with one of the greatest shooters ever in Thompson, who doesn't demand the ball, and a gifted offensive big man in David Lee. 
 
I suppose a Love-Durant-LeBron-Generic Guard-Generic Guard lineup could be the best fit. There's some obvious positional overlap, but their skills are so great, while different and complimentary enough, that it could work. But even there, I'm not sure it would be much better than LeBron-Love-Irving. 

 

[jon abbey]

I think they'll be in the running, but it'll take them 10 or 20 games to get into a groove. Good luck stopping them next season. 

 

[bowiac]

I think they're going to be excellent, but their questionable defense is going to be a problem offensively. It's a lot harder to score when you start so many of your possessions by taking the ball out of your own hoop.

 

[moly99]

I do have to question just how many primary ball handlers a team actually needs. Assuming the starting five is Kyrie, Waiters, LeBron, Love and Varejao, that's four guys who like to have the ball in their hands.
 
Of course Waiters will probably be dealt or swapped out for Marion, so perhaps that isn't a big deal. It still seems like this is a team with too many "alpha dogs" and not enough efficient role players.

 

[nighthob]

I wonder how long it will take Cleveland and Memphis to work out a Waiters for Courtney Lee deal?

 

[Kliq]

The Heat teams were great because they paired Wade with LeBron and they are two out of the top 5 finishers in NBA history and were devastating in transition. I don't think you are giving the Heat enough respect in that regard, especially when considering the point bowiac said, they are going to be a team with a lot of defensive holes and will not get nearly as many transition baskets as Miami did.
 
One thing I would worry about is that the difference between Lebron-Bosh-Wade, KG-Pierce-Allen and Irving-LeBron-Love  is that the formers had three guys who were tested in the playoffs and on good teams before they formed their superteam. Love and Irving have played in a combined ZERO playoff games, and have no idea what it is like to be on a team that everyone is gunning for. I think it will definitely take them a while to really reach their full potential.
 
Michael Jordan is the greatest offensive player since the merger, saying LeBron is "probably" the best is crazy imo. You could easily make the case that LeBron isn't even the best offensive player in the league currently.

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

If I recall correctly, Waiters actually has really good catch and shoot numbers. I'm not sure it's out of the question that he becomes a very good role player as a fourth option that can make open shots and slash without the ball.

 

[jon abbey]

One thing I would worry about is that the difference between Lebron-Bosh-Wade, KG-Pierce-Allen and Irving-LeBron-Love  is that the formers had three guys who were tested in the playoffs and on good teams before they formed their superteam.

 
 
Bosh's teams had been knocked out in the first round twice and missed the playoffs the two years before joining Miami, 0-2 in playoff series career. 

 

[Kliq]

 
 
Bosh's teams had been knocked out in the first round twice and missed the playoffs the two years before joining Miami, 0-2 in playoff series career. 

 
That is still significantly more than Irving and Love, which was my point.

 

[Mugthis]

I think they're going to be excellent, but their questionable defense is going to be a problem offensively. It's a lot harder to score when you start so many of your possessions by taking the ball out of your own hoop.

 
Perhaps. Although conversely, it's a lot easier to defend when so many of your opponent's possessions start by taking the ball out of bounds. And it doesn't appear the Nash-Suns had any problems on offense despite a porous defense.
 

The Heat teams were great because they paired Wade with LeBron and they are two out of the top 5 finishers in NBA history and were devastating in transition. I don't think you are giving the Heat enough respect in that regard, especially when considering the point bowiac said, they are going to be a team with a lot of defensive holes and will not get nearly as many transition baskets as Miami did.
 
One thing I would worry about is that the difference between Lebron-Bosh-Wade, KG-Pierce-Allen and Irving-LeBron-Love  is that the formers had three guys who were tested in the playoffs and on good teams before they formed their superteam. Love and Irving have played in a combined ZERO playoff games, and have no idea what it is like to be on a team that everyone is gunning for. I think it will definitely take them a while to really reach their full potential.
 
Michael Jordan is the greatest offensive player since the merger, saying LeBron is "probably" the best is crazy imo. You could easily make the case that LeBron isn't even the best offensive player in the league currently.

 
You're right that transition offense was a big reason why the Heat were great offensively, but that doesn't discount the somewhat awkward fit of LeBron-Wade (and early Bosh) in the half court.
 
I think you're making a very questionable assumption arguing that the Cavs won't get "nearly as many transition baskets as Miami did." First, I don't think there is a huge difference in fast break offense between 22-year-old Irving (who's one of the best ball handlers in the NBA and is very good and creative at the basket) and 29-to-32-year-old Wade (although I'd love to see what the numbers say...I could be very wrong here). That said, I will grant that peak Wade was superior. However, the Cavs will have Love, who's far and away the best rebounder LeBron has played with, and is historically great at outlet passes, which has the potential to lead to a lot of transition baskets. 
 
As for the playoffs? Meh. How exactly are Love and Irving going to be diminished in the playoffs? LeBron is more playoff experience and confidence than ever before and is the clear leader of the team. What problems are they going to have? Why is there any reason to expect them to lack some vague playoff pixie dust?
 
Finally, Jordan vs. LeBron will obviously be a great debate and it's impossible to declare one better than the other. I prefer Jordan's defense, personal scoring, and game-to-game consistency to LeBron. But I prefer LeBron's passing, game management, and versatility to Jordan. But it's close, so who knows? 

I think the only active player one could reasonably argue as better offensively than LeBron is Durant. Durant is a much better shooter and can probably score more easily, but LeBron beats him in transition, at passing, at ball handling, in the post, getting his teammates involved, and avoiding getting constrained by Tony Allen-types. Dirk, Chris Paul, and Curry are special, but all have obvious limitations compared to LeBron. 

 

[Kliq]

 
Perhaps. Although conversely, it's a lot easier to defend when so many of your opponent's possessions start by taking the ball out of bounds. And it doesn't appear the Nash-Suns had any problems on offense despite a porous defense.
 
 
You're right that transition offense was a big reason why the Heat were great offensively, but that doesn't discount the somewhat awkward fit of LeBron-Wade (and early Bosh) in the half court.
 
I think you're making a very questionable assumption arguing that the Cavs won't get "nearly as many transition baskets as Miami did." First, I don't think there is a huge difference in fast break offense between 22-year-old Irving (who's one of the best ball handlers in the NBA and is very good and creative at the basket) and 29-to-32-year-old Wade (although I'd love to see what the numbers say...I could be very wrong here). That said, I will grant that peak Wade was superior. However, the Cavs will have Love, who's far and away the best rebounder LeBron has played with, and is historically great at outlet passes, which has the potential to lead to a lot of transition baskets. 
 
As for the playoffs? Meh. How exactly are Love and Irving going to be diminished in the playoffs? LeBron is more playoff experience and confidence than ever before and is the clear leader of the team. What problems are they going to have? Why is there any reason to expect them to lack some vague playoff pixie dust?
 
Finally, Jordan vs. LeBron will obviously be a great debate and it's impossible to declare one better than the other. I prefer Jordan's defense, personal scoring, and game-to-game consistency to LeBron. But I prefer LeBron's passing, game management, and versatility to Jordan. But it's close, so who knows? 

I think the only active player one could reasonably argue as better offensively than LeBron is Durant. Durant is a much better shooter and can probably score more easily, but LeBron beats him in transition, at passing, at ball handling, in the post, getting his teammates involved, and avoiding getting constrained by Tony Allen-types. Dirk, Chris Paul, and Curry are special, but all have obvious limitations compared to LeBron. 

 
There is a huge difference between playing for a team that wins 35-40 games and a team that is a favoirite to win a championship. Irving and Love are being thrown right into the fire, with every bad game they have is going to be chewed up in the media and thrown under the microscope. There is going to be a lot of pressure on every game, and it is undoubtly going to effect how they play.
 
Irving can dribble sure, but he also plays defense as if it was an elective, while Wade is/was one of the best defensive playmaking SG in league history. As clunky as Wade and LeBron might have been on offense, they were a perfect match on defense, taking turns wrecking havoc, attacking offensive players from the blind side and forcing turnovers and getting out in transition. Maybe only Pippen and Jordan were a better pair of perimeter defenders.
 

Finally, Jordan vs. LeBron will obviously be a great debate and it's impossible to declare one better than the other
 

 
 
Actually, it is pretty simple. Jordan averaged 32.5-8-8 with 54% shooting in a much more competitive league and in an era where teams actually were allowed to play physical defense and not every play with a lot of contact was immediatly ruled a flagrant foul. Jordan had a usage rate north of 33% 10 times, LeBron has only done it 4 times. Jordan cleared 13 OWS 7 times, LeBron has done it only 4 times. Even when you consider MJ's disappointing Wizards run, Jordan has a higher career Usage Rate and Offensive Rating.
 
LeBron is a better passer and he has worked his way into being a better three point shooter. However, Jordan could dish it pretty well, was a better free throw shooter, a slightly better offensive rebounder, and just a flat out better scorer. And lets be honest, who would you rather have taking the last shot?

 

[moly99]

If I recall correctly, Waiters actually has really good catch and shoot numbers. I'm not sure it's out of the question that he becomes a very good role player as a fourth option that can make open shots and slash without the ball.

 
Yes, but the problem is that Waiters is not psychologically prepared to be that kind of a player. He was already complaining about having to give up touches to Kyrie even before LeBron and Love joined the team.
 
Kyrie, LeBron and Love should be great together, but I'm not enthusiastic about what they have outside of those three guys.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

What if you threw out the offense requirement and could play any 2 players alongside Lebron?

Would Kevin Love be a better fit than a Dwight Howard or Marc Gasol?

Only offense, I'd take Paul over Kyrie too. If position doesn't matter I'd go Love and Durant like you. How do you defend that front court? You would just need two 3 and D guards.

A Chris Paul/Curry/James line up would be the most fun imo. The ball movement and the 3pt shooting? Damn. You'd then need 2 bigs that rebound and defend.

 

[nighthob]

You could easily make the case that LeBron isn't even the best offensive player in the league currently.

You could also easily make the argument that Ishtar was a great movie. You would still be wrong.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

I think they're going to be excellent, but their questionable defense is going to be a problem offensively. It's a lot harder to score when you start so many of your possessions by taking the ball out of your own hoop.

I don't see this team having the defensive problems others apparently do. The Cavs have two elite defenders in LeBron and Varejao while the exagerations of Love and Irvings problems will be mitigated by having LeBron and AV on the floor as well as not going through the motions defensively on 25-win teams.

They won't be elite defensively as a team and it will take the season to gel but I'd be very surprised if they aren't a good to very good defensive team overall.

 

[jon abbey]

I have thought since this group was assembled that their best bet for success is just how much LeBron can be a force on D. I think that he should leave the primary roles on offense to Love and Kyrie and pour as much energy as he possibly can into the defensive end. 

 

[Sam Ray Not]

I have thought since this group was assembled that their best bet for success is just how much LeBron can be a force on D. I think that he should leave the primary roles on offense to Love and Kyrie and pour as much energy as he possibly can into the defensive end. 

That's a great point. By RAPM LeBron has typically rated as by far the best offensive player in the league (no surprise) but closer to neutral or even slightly negative on defense (a much bigger surprise). Obviously anyone who watches LeBron knows he can be an elite defender when he wants to. Indeed, if I could have one player to lockdown another wing on a single possession, I'd probably pick LeBron. But in some ways "energy expended" is zero sum; and I think what RAPM is showing is that over the course of the grueling NBA season, LeBron, as his teams de facto PG and leading scorer, typically chooses to expend more of energy on offense (unlike, for example, Andre Iguodala, who largely defers on offense, focuses on D, and now rates as the top defender in the league).
 
Anyway, the idea that LeBron, with his new leaner physique and the absurd luxury of being able to defer offensively to Irving and Love, will now be able to focus à la Iguodala or Tony Allen on playing lockdown perimeter D, is fairly terrifying.
 
On topic: I wouldn't be surprised if they're the greatest offense ever, for all the reasons laid out here, but if I had to hand-pick three guys to build an offense around, I'd take LeBron/Durant/Curry over LeBron/Love/Kyrie, hands down.

 

[bowiac]

LeBron's dRAPM numbers have dropped off for the last couple years, but he was routinely among the best wing defenders in the league before. That's consistent with him "taking it easy" a bit lately, and is also reflected the Heat's defensive team ratings (they dropped to 11th in the league defensively last year).
 
To the extent they reduce his PT or his load offensively (by virtue of Kyrie and Love), we could see his defensive numbers rebound a good amount.
 

I don't see this team having the defensive problems others apparently do. The Cavs have two elite defenders in LeBron and Varejao while the exagerations of Love and Irvings problems will be mitigated by having LeBron and AV on the floor as well as not going through the motions defensively on 25-win teams.

 
This is fair. I think Irving is actually a truly terrible defender, one of the worst in the league, but Love probably isn't, and Varejao, when healthy, is very good.

 

[nighthob]

Yeah, the last couple of years, with Wade's precipitous decline and LeBron's having to carry a much bigger offensive load, has led to a lot of regular season defensive cruise control. I think the biggest change here is that with Irving he can actually focus more energy on scoring while still having the leisure to increase his defensive presence (which will be a necessity with Irving and Love out there).

 

[moly99]

I don't see this team having the defensive problems others apparently do. The Cavs have two elite defenders in LeBron and Varejao while the exagerations of Love and Irvings problems will be mitigated by having LeBron and AV on the floor as well as not going through the motions defensively on 25-win teams.

 
Varejao isn't really elite anymore even when he is healthy, and the backup big men (Tristan Thompson, Brendan Haywood and Lou Amundsen) range from decent (Haywood when he is motivated) to awful (Thompson or Haywood when he is not motivated.)
 
The Cavs will probably be fantastic offensively, but I don't think it's unreasonable to question how the team will work defensively.
 
The one downside I can see for the Cavs offense is that the Spurs-style offensive system needs its guys to get a lot of rest since it requires a considerable amount of movement. That's probably a good thing for Lebron's longevity, but it also means a lot of minutes for guys like Mike Miller and AJ Price. Maybe that's how they can keep Waiters happy: they could use him in the Manu role with Marion starting at SG.

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

Yeah, the last couple of years, with Wade's precipitous decline and LeBron's having to carry a much bigger offensive load, has led to a lot of regular season defensive cruise control. I think the biggest change here is that with Irving he can actually focus more energy on scoring while still having the leisure to increase his defensive presence (which will be a necessity with Irving and Love out there).

 
 

 
Varejao isn't really elite anymore even when he is healthy, and the backup big men (Tristan Thompson, Brendan Haywood and Lou Amundsen) range from decent (Haywood when he is motivated) to awful (Thompson or Haywood when he is not motivated.)
 
The Cavs will probably be fantastic offensively, but I don't think it's unreasonable to question how the team will work defensively.

 
Shawn Marrion also gives them a guy who can guard four positions and basically held Dallas's defense together last year. That's a really nice thing to have coming off the bench for a team whose starting 5 has defensive questions.

 

[Kliq]

The Marion move might be the most underrated move of the off-season. Getting a second good wing defender is huge for this team, and it allows LeBron to roam around the floor and guard the other teams best player. For instance, against OKC they can switch LeBron over to Westbrook and not have to worry about Durant torching some stiff.

 

[Blacken]

No kidding. If Marion was just a little younger, I'd put serious thought to starting him next to James on the wing.

 

[Mugthis]

Pretty good scouting video on the Cavs offensive potential and mechanics: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6REvYwSCpc&list=UUSpvjDk06HLxBaw8sZw7SkA

 

[moly99]

Shawn Marrion also gives them a guy who can guard four positions and basically held Dallas's defense together last year. That's a really nice thing to have coming off the bench for a team whose starting 5 has defensive questions.

No kidding. If Marion was just a little younger, I'd put serious thought to starting him next to James on the wing.

 
To be honest I think he is probably going to be a starter. They really need him and Lebron to take away the other team's best offensive options given the defensive weaknesses of the other players. Irving, Waiters and Love have never been interested in playing defense, and even if that changes this year it will likely take them time to learn.
 
At the very least though, the Cavs should be the most entertaining team since the Nash and Stoudemire Suns.

 

[Blacken]

He might start, but I don't think they're going to have D troubles beyond maybe the first couple weeks. Irving hasn't had a reason to play D, but I think he'll get there real quick. He's pretty big for a one, and now he actually has a reason to play D instead of save all of his energy for the other end of the floor.
 
And Love isn't nearly as bad on defense as everyone memetically claims, especially when not playing the 5.

 

[nighthob]

He might start, but I don't think they're going to have D troubles beyond maybe the first couple weeks. Irving hasn't had a reason to play D, but I think he'll get there real quick. He's pretty big for a one, and now he actually has a reason to play D instead of save all of his energy for the other end of the floor.
 
And Love isn't nearly as bad on defense as everyone memetically claims, especially when not playing the 5.

To be brutally frank his defense is easier to hide at the 5, as he won't do anything but chase rebounds anyway.

 

[jon abbey]

 
At the very least though, the Cavs should be the most entertaining team since the Nash and Stoudemire Suns.

 
I think GS and PHO might give them a run even this season, PHO may play three PGs and Gerald Green at the 4 at times (!!!). They might be the most entertaining title contender since the D'Antoni Suns, though, if that's what you meant. 

 

[HomeRunBaker]

 
I think GS and PHO might give them a run even this season, PHO may play three PGs and Gerald Green at the 4 at times (!!!). They might be the most entertaining title contender since the D'Antoni Suns, though, if that's what you meant. 

Wait! Phoenix is a title contender???

I feel there's a good chance they have a rep on lottery night.

 

[jon abbey]

I think you misread my post or I wrote it poorly, I was differentiating between most entertaining teams in the league (PHO and GS should be right up there) and most entertaining contender (CLE probably, LAC should be fun again too). GS is maybe an outside contender also. 

 

[Auger34]

There is no way the Cavs trade Waiters for Courtney Lee. Zilch. Nada.

They are going to try to get a Corey Brewer type (maybe Chase Budinger someone of tat ilk) with the Trade Exception they have, then try to get a rim protector (LARRY SANDERS!! ?) with Haywood, contracts, and a few picks

 

[Auger34]

I don't see this team having the defensive problems others apparently do. The Cavs have two elite defenders in LeBron and Varejao while the exagerations of Love and Irvings problems will be mitigated by having LeBron and AV on the floor as well as not going through the motions defensively on 25-win teams.

They won't be elite defensively as a team and it will take the season to gel but I'd be very surprised if they aren't a good to very good defensive team overall.

I agree with this. Marion is also a good defender. They have some pretty good dept too so they can afford to let LBJ sit and rest during some games so he should be fresh and a monster (on both sides of the court) in the playoffs.

My question is who is their crunch time 5? Irving, James, and Love obviously....who are the other two? Marion and Varejao? Waiters and Varejao?

 

[HomeRunBaker]

I agree with this. Marion is also a good defender. They have some pretty good dept too so they can afford to let LBJ sit and rest during some games so he should be fresh and a monster (on both sides of the court) in the playoffs.

My question is who is their crunch time 5? Irving, James, and Love obviously....who are the other two? Marion and Varejao? Waiters and Varejao?

The lineups will be situational. Mike Miller will certainly be out there over Waiters if the Cabs are trailing and/or have the ball. The floor will be spread with Love and Miller so LeBron/Kyrie are using Varejao high screens to get them to the rim or to cause collape for a Love/Miller open 3.

 

[ifmanis5]

Kyrie 0 assists and 23 shots last night. The ball isn't exactly moving much and they're not forcing enough turnovers to run consistently... Why did LeBron lose all that weight again?

 

[jon abbey]

https://twitter.com/uuords/status/530401153020735488/photo/1

 

[Mugthis]

There was a typo when I started this thread. I was obviously referring to the 2015-6 Cavs. 

 

[Devizier]

I wouldn't be surprised if Kyrie changes addresses by midseason.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

I wouldn't be surprised if Kyrie changes addresses by midseason.

100 Legends Way?

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

I wouldn't be surprised if Kyrie changes addresses by midseason.

 
I'd be absolutely shocked if this happens. We're 4 games in and this isn't the Lakers.

 

[GeorgeCostanza]

Why did LeBron lose all that weight again?

Because he no longer cared for the shriveled testicles and bacne?

 

[bosox4283]

I know nothing about basketball X's and O's, so I want to ask: can the Cavs find balance, especially when it seems that Lebron is really trying to get Irving to realize he needs to play a different type of basketball? I'm not really asking "Can the Cavs figure it out?", but rather how do you get a score-first guard to adapt to a more team-oriented play?

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Because he no longer cared for the shriveled testicles and bacne?

Damn you guys stealing my layups!

I've got a lot of problems with you people!!!!
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0JR6xt9S02o

 

[moly99]

I know nothing about basketball X's and O's, so I want to ask: can the Cavs find balance, especially when it seems that Lebron is really trying to get Irving to realize he needs to play a different type of basketball? I'm not really asking "Can the Cavs figure it out?", but rather how do you get a score-first guard to adapt to a more team-oriented play?

 
The truth is that very few do.
 
I've heard a few people argue that Tony Parker and John Wall have changed since entering the league, but the stats don't really bear that out. Parker is still mostly a scorer, and Wall was always a distributor.
 
I honestly can't think of any current PG's who have changed their play style  off the top of my head. Deron Williams flipped the other way, but that's mostly due to leaving Jerry Sloan's system.

 

[ElUno20]

I dont know how waiters became the scapegoat. Probably the media protecting Lebron's going home angle instead of criticizing him. But it's not like getting waiters to be a perfect team player is going to turn them into a 73 win team. He's a shit to average player, getting him to be an average player isn't the problem.

 

[nighthob]

I assumed they were referring to Kyrie Irving's recent shooting spree. Waiters big issue is that the Cavs require a three and D guy at the SG spot and Waiters clearly isn't it.

 

[ifmanis5]

NBC Sports reporting that Love will consider opting out for the Lakers. Can't wait for the new Gatorade sports next summer when LeBron puts all the weight back on to play PF.

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

Such a stupid report. The actual report, from Bulls.com reads like this:
 

 
It’s not going to get as much discussion during the season, but one of the biggest issues for the Cavs is that both LeBron James and Kevin Love own opt outs after this season. LeBron James basically cannot afford to go anywhere after his return to Cleveland. But watch out for Love. Indications are he will seriously consider the opt out and has his eyes on a return to Los Angeles, where he attended college and where the Lakers long have had him on their free agent wish list.

 
A couple of things on this. First, of course Kevin Love is opting out. Everybody knows he's opting out and it's not a secret, it's just the reality of the CBA. So any report that starts with "he will seriously consider the opt out" loses a ton of credibility immediately. The opt out is a given and has no bearing on whether or not he's going to stay in Cleveland. Second, this "report" came in the midst of a bunch of complete garbage in which he talks about a Kyrie for Kobe trade and a Kobe for Beal trade. In other words, this guy barely understands the league he covers and is just throwing shit against the wall.

 

[ifmanis5]

Just let us have this.  :colbert:

 

[DukeSox]

And there it is.